All Realignment Talk Here

People have to start thinking about it from the ACC's perspective? What allure does St. John's really have that merits an invite?

The program has been irrelevant for a long time. It's starting to show some life in the past few years, but we are no different than most of the A10 schools that we poke fun of.
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STJ is king in a city of 9 million people with a metropolitan area of 20 million. St. John's is top ten all-time in wins, is a historic program, and gives more access to the Mecca of College Basketball, MSG. Imagine UNC, Duke, and NC State coming to MSG every year? Also, the rivalries are already there with Syracuse, Pitt, BC, and Notre Dame.

If the ACC adds UConn along with Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova, they will control college basketball with no equal. Philly, DC, and New York City are huge television markets. These are populations with no real college football teams with fans that would be much more inclined to turn on a game featuring a familiar conference rival even if it is in a sport their school doesn't offer. I know I've watched a few dozen college games in my day just becase they were Big East schools.
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Yes, that's all true - but unfortunately it seems that basketball dollars somehow aren't a compelling enough of a talking point. It's too bad.
 
People have to start thinking about it from the ACC's perspective? What allure does St. John's really have that merits an invite?

The program has been irrelevant for a long time. It's starting to show some life in the past few years, but we are no different than most of the A10 schools that we poke fun of.
Click to expand...


STJ is king in a city of 9 million people with a metropolitan area of 20 million. St. John's is top ten all-time in wins, is a historic program, and gives more access to the Mecca of College Basketball, MSG. Imagine UNC, Duke, and NC State coming to MSG every year? Also, the rivalries are already there with Syracuse, Pitt, BC, and Notre Dame.

If the ACC adds UConn along with Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova, they will control college basketball with no equal. Philly, DC, and New York City are huge television markets. These are populations with no real college football teams with fans that would be much more inclined to turn on a game featuring a familiar conference rival even if it is in a sport their school doesn't offer. I know I've watched a few dozen college games in my day just becase they were Big East schools.
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I live in S. Fla. Used to root for Miami, but when they bolted I considered them trators. The only college FB ive watces has been BE FB. Although w this yaers defections, their werent many teams you could root for. Marillic you make an ineresting point, but I still dont see the ACC inviting non FB schools.
 
Any chance we can beg the ACC to take us and even take a pay cut? I'm sure taking significantly less money than the football schools would make us more attractive. Any way we can make way less than the football schools, yet still more than in the Big East now? And can you imagine ACC tourney at MSG with Duke, UNC, Cuse, ND, Nova, UConn, G'Town, SJ, Pitt, etc.? Sell outs all over. SJ carries the ticket to the REAL NYC market (not Jersey and Rutgers), and the ticket to MSG. #1 media capital of the nation. The ACC is like a near monopoly that just bought 95% of the best basketball teams. Might as well just finish off and get the rest. Taking way less money, and selling the NYC market/MSG while getting leverage with help of G'Town, UConn, and Nova can get us in if we do some amazing convincing.
 
Any chance we can beg the ACC to take us and even take a pay cut? I'm sure taking significantly less money than the football schools would make us more attractive. Any way we can make way less than the football schools, yet still more than in the Big East now? And can you imagine ACC tourney at MSG with Duke, UNC, Cuse, ND, Nova, UConn, G'Town, SJ, Pitt, etc.? Sell outs all over. SJ carries the ticket to the REAL NYC market (not Jersey and Rutgers), and the ticket to MSG. #1 media capital of the nation. The ACC is like a near monopoly that just bought 95% of the best basketball teams. Might as well just finish off and get the rest. Taking way less money, and selling the NYC market/MSG while getting leverage with help of G'Town, UConn, and Nova can get us in if we do some amazing convincing.
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I think youre grasping at straws, but I could be wrong.
 
Think of it as a good player on a bad team wanting to join a winning team so he takes a big pay cut since it benefits him more than the conference. Why can't we do that with the ACC? We may not care about college football out here, but we love our college basketball. The ACC would be stupid to not at least give us a thought. The new Lavin era with a ton of talent for the first time in a long time, MSG sellouts with Duke, UNC, Cuse, Pitt, etc., NYC #1 market, plus a lower payout. That's catching lightning in a bottle. If we go to the A10 or any other non-power conference, we can say bye bye to our recruiting, bye bye to Lavin, and bye bye to any attention or hype. Hope to god that doesn't happen.
 
People have to start thinking about it from the ACC's perspective? What allure does St. John's really have that merits an invite?

The program has been irrelevant for a long time. It's starting to show some life in the past few years, but we are no different than most of the A10 schools that we poke fun of.
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Much different potential than A10 schools.
 
People have to start thinking about it from the ACC's perspective? What allure does St. John's really have that merits an invite?

The program has been irrelevant for a long time. It's starting to show some life in the past few years, but we are no different than most of the A10 schools that we poke fun of.
Click to expand...


STJ is king in a city of 9 million people with a metropolitan area of 20 million. St. John's is top ten all-time in wins, is a historic program, and gives more access to the Mecca of College Basketball, MSG. Imagine UNC, Duke, and NC State coming to MSG every year? Also, the rivalries are already there with Syracuse, Pitt, BC, and Notre Dame.

If the ACC adds UConn along with Georgetown, St. John's and Villanova, they will control college basketball with no equal. Philly, DC, and New York City are huge television markets. These are populations with no real college football teams with fans that would be much more inclined to turn on a game featuring a familiar conference rival even if it is in a sport their school doesn't offer. I know I've watched a few dozen college games in my day just becase they were Big East schools.
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Yes, that's all true - but unfortunately it seems that basketball dollars somehow aren't a compelling enough of a talking point. It's too bad.
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BK, I don't think you were totally right about basketball dollars not being as compelling enough a talking point. I think the primary reason th ACC went after Syracuse & Pittsburgh was because of their BASKETBALL success, not because of the football excellece. For years no matter what the ACC tried to do, to become a better basketball conference than the Big East, but year after year the Big East cleaned their clock and they hated that. So they chased the two strongest programs in the Big East. I think that is also the reason they approached Notre Dame.
 
Forget joining the ACC. It's a pipe dream, besides they will be losing more teams soon. 50 Mil or not Clemson and FSU are looking. Right now Syracuse and Nancy Cantor wish they were Rutgers. What a joke.
 
I really don't know what the ACC would find attractive about St. John's. These mass defections are driven by football revenue. When we are a perennial top 20 program, we can fill the Garden. Two seasons ago, when we hit #8 in the national polls, even with renewed general interest around the city, we couldn't sell out the Garden on our own. Even with Lavin, there is only a small loyal following among students. In terms of basketball alone, Syracuse proved again and again, they can fill the Garden, not SJU. There are still a good number of basketball only schools that can be the nucleus of a decent conference, but everyone in the Big East who can flee will do so. The next Big East TV basketball contract could be much smaller if the teams and matchups that draw big audiences are gone.
 
Cuse has what, 30,000 people? We probably have 15,000 at most between all of our campuses. Even if only 1/3 of the students at Cuse cared, that's still 10,000 people at games. So it's not a good comparison. The problems are obvious...we are a smaller commuter school, and to make matters worse, we usually are not even close to being ranked. In 2011, we were not ranked for long. If we were honestly a top 15-20 program for say a span of 5 years, I guarantee the following would increase. I also think you blame students too much. SJ is a commuter school with a TON of international students who just don't have the interest. The public needs to step it up more IMO too. The prices are way too high though for the public at MSG and CA. No borderline fan is going to go to CA for 30 bucks to see Holy Cross. MSG is at least 40-50 bucks for nosebleeds. We need to compare ourselves with SH, Providence, etc. with attendance because our success lately is much closer to them than Cuse. Winning cures all.
 
I really don't know what the ACC would find attractive about St. John's. These mass defections are driven by football revenue. When we are a perennial top 20 program, we can fill the Garden. Two seasons ago, when we hit #8 in the national polls, even with renewed general interest around the city, we couldn't sell out the Garden on our own. Even with Lavin, there is only a small loyal following among students. In terms of basketball alone, Syracuse proved again and again, they can fill the Garden, not SJU. There are still a good number of basketball only schools that can be the nucleus of a decent conference, but everyone in the Big East who can flee will do so. The next Big East TV basketball contract could be much smaller if the teams and matchups that draw big audiences are gone.
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As much as I hate to agree this is the reality of of SJU and what remains of our conference.
Having said that as long as we have the budget for a top flight staff we can recruit nationally in order to have a ranked program. Success is not impossible for SJU.
 
I think if we stay in the Big East while L'Ville, UConn, Cincy, etc. leave, we are down to a few good teams. If the Big East crumbles and we have to move to another conference like the A10, SJ basketball as we know it is done. No more top 100 recruits. A huge part of getting recruits is having a Big East platform as leverage. We used to be able to tell recruits we play Cuse, Pitt, WVU, ND, etc. but now we will have to tell them we play Seton Hall, Providence, and DePaul when all is said and done or LaSalle, Duquense, and Charlotte if we join the A10. This is so frustrating because the solution is so obvious. The ACC can just take the rest of the major Big East teams and this nightmare is over. Pay the basketball only schools less if it's all about money so you get schools like G'Town, Nova, and SJ cheap.
 
I think if we stay in the Big East while L'Ville, UConn, Cincy, etc. leave, we are down to a few good teams. If the Big East crumbles and we have to move to another conference like the A10, SJ basketball as we know it is done. No more top 100 recruits. A huge part of getting recruits is having a Big East platform as leverage. We used to be able to tell recruits we play Cuse, Pitt, WVU, ND, etc. but now we will have to tell them we play Seton Hall, Providence, and DePaul when all is said and done or LaSalle, Duquense, and Charlotte if we join the A10. This is so frustrating because the solution is so obvious. The ACC can just take the rest of the major Big East teams and this nightmare is over. Pay the basketball only schools less if it's all about money so you get schools like G'Town, Nova, and SJ cheap.
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What are you saying is what we are all worrying about (some to a greater extent, some to a lesser extent). We basically have to root like crazy that schools like FSU and Clemson all bolt to greener pastures, crippling the ACC. Then if the ACC is desperate enough - maybe then they do something with non-football schools like g-town, etc. We can all hope!

Schadenfreude!!! (I love this word, while it may not be entirely appropriate in usage at this moment, i'll still go ahead and use it. The word may not be appropriate because we're rooting against the ACC out of our own desperation, rather then glee... or maybe is 50% desperation, 50% glee? Then the word after all might be appropriate! >:) )
 
Forget joining the ACC. It's a pipe dream, besides they will be losing more teams soon. 50 Mil or not Clemson and FSU are looking. Right now Syracuse and Nancy Cantor wish they were Rutgers. What a joke.
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Not to mention Pittsburgh. Rutgers got the better conference after not being considered by the ACC.
 
I think if we stay in the Big East while L'Ville, UConn, Cincy, etc. leave, we are down to a few good teams. If the Big East crumbles and we have to move to another conference like the A10, SJ basketball as we know it is done. No more top 100 recruits. A huge part of getting recruits is having a Big East platform as leverage. We used to be able to tell recruits we play Cuse, Pitt, WVU, ND, etc. but now we will have to tell them we play Seton Hall, Providence, and DePaul when all is said and done or LaSalle, Duquense, and Charlotte if we join the A10. This is so frustrating because the solution is so obvious. The ACC can just take the rest of the major Big East teams and this nightmare is over. Pay the basketball only schools less if it's all about money so you get schools like G'Town, Nova, and SJ cheap.
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Here's the thing. At this stage in the game, there is nothing that St. John's or the non-FB playing schools can do. It is out of their hands.

They aren't going to voluntarily leave the Big East and join the A10 because quite simply they will lose millions doing so. If the conference collapses, they will go down with the ship -- mainly because St. John's will still make more with a crumbling Big East than a strong A10.

Now, if the Big East ceases to exist, then our school will be forced to make a decision. And that decision will be to join a mid major type of conference and settle in there. It's the sad reality of the situation.
 
Is it really that out of our hands though? We can still at the very least call and talk to the ACC, maybe get Lavin on the phone and explain why we are a good fit and how we bring the big MSG stage and the real NYC market. If we start talking with G'Town and Nova about sticking together as 3 small but great basketball schools, we have more leverage. If we go mid major then we will never have hype again IMO. Lavin leaves, players transfer, and no more big recruits. Do you know how much money we would probably lose not being in a power conference? If it truly is about money, you would think our school would fight tooth and nail to make sure we don't become a mid major. It's complete BS that stupid football schools can force us to be a mid major in basketball after all these years. Laws must have been broken left and right. Why doesn't congress get involved and act as an arbitrator? There are immoral practices and backhanded deals going on here. I still have yet to hear a Big East official speak out truthfully and say how cowardly this whole thing is. We are literally sitting ducks in a pond with alligators encircling us. Can anyone come to our rescue or at least attempt to?
 
Also was thinking...UConn to the ACC might be a good thing for us. If UConn goes, that can be the last straw for FSU, Clemson, Miami, etc. after more weakening of ACC football. If they all leave, that means more open spots for the ACC meaning G'Town, SJ, and Nova may be able to get in.
 
Just my opinion but we as a fan base cant just rely on the prospect of Repole as a savior. We need better fan support whether it's donations or just people going to games.

I was texting Traczok today who was going home from the charleston thing and he said our turnout was real bad but there really isnt an excuse because he said Dayton had close to a thousand fans.

There better be some fans out for the San Fran game when mjmaherjr arrives
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I dont think the school marketed the Charleston tournament the way they could have. Did you see one mailing about it? I spoke to some long time fans who didnt even know we were going to be in that tournament. The school could have offered ticket deals and hotel deals but did zilch. What do you expect?
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Honestly since I read the boards so much for me at least I dont need the school to promote anything but even then assuming they did I dont know what an impact it would have.

It's possible maybe more people would go but realistically pretty much every fan I know at least reads these boards but I guess some more people could have gone but even then not the numbers that the other schools had there.

Tickets were cheap there but hotels were expensive I think.

Oh well time to get ready for the Napa redmen.com tour
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Don't know how somebody could be a long time fan and not know about Charleston.
 
Forget joining the ACC. It's a pipe dream, besides they will be losing more teams soon. 50 Mil or not Clemson and FSU are looking. Right now Syracuse and Nancy Cantor wish they were Rutgers. What a joke.
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Not to mention Pittsburgh. Rutgers got the better conference after not being considered by the ACC.
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Correct and that is the one thing I am happy about. However the one thing I really want is the ACC to crumble with
defections. Now would that not be ironic for Pitt and Syracuse.
 
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