Adios Tariq

[fun]

[quote="Mike Zaun" post=277376]We will never know the exact % of how much recruiting matters vs. coaching unfortunately. [/quote]

No, we won't know the exact percentage. What we do know though is that teams that are in the top tier year after year are those that get top tier recruits year after year and that the coaches of those teams - some of whom are like Rick Pitino in the hall of fame - are willing to break the law to get them. Which is a lot of trouble to go to if any old three star recruit will do.

Admittedly I used to think if we just got the players, success would follow. One needs to look no further than Lavin who had damn good recruits (from a rankings perspective) good enough for some coaches to make the Sweet 16 with. We got a 5 star Jordan and wasn't Pointer top 25 or 30 nationally? Even with the ineligibilities he still had a top 10 worthy group of recruits. We did make the tourney with that group, however it was by the skin of our teeth and the player development was nonexistent except for Pointer finally emerging in his senior year as an example.

Steve Lavin recruited one good four year player, one, DA Harrison. Harkless played a year. Sampson played two and when he left it was IIRC addition by subtraction. Phil Greene stunk for two years. Pointer stunk for three. The rest of them were somewhere between average and psychotic. And anyway Lavin is a special case, because he sucked at coaching and was mentally ill besides. That's a lot to overcome. In fact what Lavin demonstrated is that coaching doesn't matter, that stability matters. Because despite how awful he was his seniors twice made the tournament. They didn't make it because they were coached up, Lavin's incapable of coaching anyone up. They won because they were bigger and stronger and more experienced than their opponents.

So it's not just recruiting...some coaches find 3 star guys who become 4 star level with good coaching.

Yes, of course it's not just recruiting, except at Kentucky and the other places where it is just recruiting. I ask again: name a program that recruits two and three star recruits and has success at a high level. Name a dozen coaches who recruit three star players and compete nationally year after year. I don't think you can.

but if we can only get top 45-150+ type guys,

The top 135 recruits in 2017 were four stars or better; 25 were five star recruits. What you're talking about is giving those 135 recruits to your opponents - the ones who have rosters full of 4 and 5 star players they recruit every year - and coaching up the guys who were in the 200-300 range to be better than their elite players. I don't see how that's a recipe for success. Providence has eight four star recruits on its roster; Marquette has eight; Xavier has 10; Villanova has 11. If you think Danny Hurley or Will Browne or some other mid major dope is going to come to SJ and coach up a bunch of three star recruits to compete with Chris Mack and Doug McDermott's father and classy Jay Wright and their four and five star recruits, I don't know what to tell you. Because those guys are coaching up their four and five star recruits too.

 

[beast of the east]

It's easy when you watch Villanova whip the ball around the court until they get a great look and wonder why can't we do that. Well, it's a nice thought, but Nova has 6 legitimate 3 point shooters, high basketball IQ players, and since everyone on that team can knock down an open shot, it's easy to give up a good look for a better look.

Early in the year I cringed when we put our 2 headed and no shotted monster on the floor in Amar and Yakwe. We were basically reduced to a 3 man offense. Our team wasn't constructed, even full strength to move the ball like some of the NCAA programs. Both Lovett and Ponds are shoot first, slashing players, and with them both, we could slice up almost any defense. Throw in Ahmed, who had a nice season but would also throw up more garbage than a frat boy after a beer blast and buffet.

There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time.

 

[Class of 72]

[quote="Beast of the East" post=277496]It's easy when you watch Villanova whip the ball around the court until they get a great look and wonder why can't we do that. Well, it's a nice thought, but Nova has 6 legitimate 3 point shooters, high basketball IQ players, and since everyone on that team can knock down an open shot, it's easy to give up a good look for a better look.

Early in the year I cringed when we put our 2 headed and no shotted monster on the floor in Amar and Yakwe. We were basically reduced to a 3 man offense. Our team wasn't constructed, even full strength to move the ball like some of the NCAA programs. Both Lovett and Ponds are shoot first, slashing players, and with them both, we could slice up almost any defense. Throw in Ahmed, who had a nice season but would also throw up more garbage than a frat boy after a beer blast and buffet.

There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time.[/quote]

"There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time."

Beast who is in charge of constructing the team to blend with our playing style and strengths?
How much time do you give a guy who has been recruiting for 9 years as his sole responsibility to deliver players by design as opposed to grabbing the best transfer available?

 

[mjmaherjr]

[quote="L J S A" post=277476][quote="Eric Williamson" post=277469]We recruited athletes with the hope of them developing in basketball players rather than the other way around....[/quote]



Can we win with a bunch of athletes? Sure, but they need some sort of BB IQ. Which is why I'd like to boycott OSNA from here on out. I'm sure the kids are nice enough, but they don't seem to get any coaching at all there.[/quote] what country are all the OSNA kids from ?

Cant we just find a pipeline for a school with ties to Wakanda ?

 

[beast of the east]

[quote="Class of 72" post=277514][quote="Beast of the East" post=277496]It's easy when you watch Villanova whip the ball around the court until they get a great look and wonder why can't we do that. Well, it's a nice thought, but Nova has 6 legitimate 3 point shooters, high basketball IQ players, and since everyone on that team can knock down an open shot, it's easy to give up a good look for a better look.

Early in the year I cringed when we put our 2 headed and no shotted monster on the floor in Amar and Yakwe. We were basically reduced to a 3 man offense. Our team wasn't constructed, even full strength to move the ball like some of the NCAA programs. Both Lovett and Ponds are shoot first, slashing players, and with them both, we could slice up almost any defense. Throw in Ahmed, who had a nice season but would also throw up more garbage than a frat boy after a beer blast and buffet.

There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time.[/quote]

"There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time."

Beast who is in charge of constructing the team to blend with our playing style and strengths?
How much time do you give a guy who has been recruiting for 9 years as his sole responsibility to deliver players by design as opposed to grabbing the best transfer available?[/quote]

Yes. You could recruit archbishop molloy team and get 12 disciplined players. You really think they could get the talent level they brought in and get the type of players you want also? Do you really think that at any point over the last 25 years that we've recruited on an equal footing with the better programs?

Is there a single coach you were happy with post Carnesecca? Did you forget that no one wanted Looie's job, which was an eye opener.

You really think Danny Hurley would take this job, or that anyone worth mentioning would view thus as anything but a stepping stone?

 

[L J S A]

[quote="mjmaherjr" post=277538]

Cant we just find a pipeline for a school with ties to Wakanda ?[/quote]

A Vibranium uniform would have done wonders for Owens' inside game.

 

[Sjugrad13]

[quote="Beast of the East" post=277548][quote="Class of 72" post=277514][quote="Beast of the East" post=277496]It's easy when you watch Villanova whip the ball around the court until they get a great look and wonder why can't we do that. Well, it's a nice thought, but Nova has 6 legitimate 3 point shooters, high basketball IQ players, and since everyone on that team can knock down an open shot, it's easy to give up a good look for a better look.

Early in the year I cringed when we put our 2 headed and no shotted monster on the floor in Amar and Yakwe. We were basically reduced to a 3 man offense. Our team wasn't constructed, even full strength to move the ball like some of the NCAA programs. Both Lovett and Ponds are shoot first, slashing players, and with them both, we could slice up almost any defense. Throw in Ahmed, who had a nice season but would also throw up more garbage than a frat boy after a beer blast and buffet.

There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time.[/quote]

"There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time."

Beast who is in charge of constructing the team to blend with our playing style and strengths?
How much time do you give a guy who has been recruiting for 9 years as his sole responsibility to deliver players by design as opposed to grabbing the best transfer available?[/quote]

Yes. You could recruit archbishop molloy team and get 12 disciplined players. You really think they could get the talent level they brought in and get the type of players you want also? Do you really think that at any point over the last 25 years that we've recruited on an equal footing with the better programs?

Is there a single coach you were happy with post Carnesecca? Did you forget that no one wanted Looie's job, which was an eye opener.

You really think Danny Hurley would take this job, or that anyone worth mentioning would view thus as anything but a stepping stone?[/quote]

I don’t know. Tim aka “always winning 20 games” cluess would probably take this job.

I think the assistant coach at Virginia Sanchez would take this job as well.

Couldn’t we have gotten Hurley before?

 

[Class of 72]

[quote="Beast of the East" post=277548][quote="Class of 72" post=277514][quote="Beast of the East" post=277496]It's easy when you watch Villanova whip the ball around the court until they get a great look and wonder why can't we do that. Well, it's a nice thought, but Nova has 6 legitimate 3 point shooters, high basketball IQ players, and since everyone on that team can knock down an open shot, it's easy to give up a good look for a better look.

Early in the year I cringed when we put our 2 headed and no shotted monster on the floor in Amar and Yakwe. We were basically reduced to a 3 man offense. Our team wasn't constructed, even full strength to move the ball like some of the NCAA programs. Both Lovett and Ponds are shoot first, slashing players, and with them both, we could slice up almost any defense. Throw in Ahmed, who had a nice season but would also throw up more garbage than a frat boy after a beer blast and buffet.

There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time.[/quote]

"There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time."

Beast who is in charge of constructing the team to blend with our playing style and strengths?
How much time do you give a guy who has been recruiting for 9 years as his sole responsibility to deliver players by design as opposed to grabbing the best transfer available?[/quote]

Yes. You could recruit archbishop molloy team and get 12 disciplined players. You really think they could get the talent level they brought in and get the type of players you want also? Do you really think that at any point over the last 25 years that we've recruited on an equal footing with the better programs?

Is there a single coach you were happy with post Carnesecca? Did you forget that no one wanted Looie's job, which was an eye opener.

You really think Danny Hurley would take this job, or that anyone worth mentioning would view thus as anything but a stepping stone?[/quote]

Interesting theories.
After reading this it reminds me that we should just be thankful that anyone, especially the great Chris Mullin, has ever wanted to coach at St. John's, in New York City, in bucolic Jamaica Estates because we are apparently an overhyped, damaged and overpriced product that could never attract any coach who would dare walk in the footsteps of Lou Carnesecca.
My memory is getting hazy with age but I tend to recall Lou Carnesecca handpicked his successor and that there was never a serious search in spite of the John Kresse rumors. Why would Kresse have ever left sunny Charleston for the shit hole you described?
Again, I may be imagining things with approaching dementia but haven't schools like Butler and Xavier been stepping stone schools? Haven't they survived those periods of coaching departures in beautiful Indianapolis and lovely Cincinnati?
Do I think Danny Hurley would take this job? Well, he took that shit on a shingle job in Kingston, Rhode Island didn't he? Do you really think that in your lowest moments of being a self-loathing ohn's fan, who would never send his offspring to alma mater, that St. John's basketball is a step down from Rhode Island? Of course not!
Have I ever been satisfied with any coaching hires after St. Louis Carnesecca? Yes, I was happy with the Mike Jarvis hire because he had a track record. Too bad his ego got in the way of what could have been a long and successful career in the Big Apple. My personal choice ever since the firing of Mike Jarvis has been Bob McKillop. A local boy with every qualification we could dream of. Unfortunately, I think Lou never liked the idea of hiring a coach that could outshine him and always recommended the low hanging fruit rather than reaching for the top of the coaching trees.
If your theory is correct, after Chris Mullin, we will settle for more damaged fruit and be forever the lowest of the low in Big East basketball.
One thing I am certain of is that there will be someone after Chris Mullin because time flies as do pigs in the St. John's continuum of hiring the next home run coach.

[/quote]

 

[mjmaherjr]

[quote="Class of 72" post=277554][quote="Beast of the East" post=277548][quote="Class of 72" post=277514][quote="Beast of the East" post=277496]It's easy when you watch Villanova whip the ball around the court until they get a great look and wonder why can't we do that. Well, it's a nice thought, but Nova has 6 legitimate 3 point shooters, high basketball IQ players, and since everyone on that team can knock down an open shot, it's easy to give up a good look for a better look.

Early in the year I cringed when we put our 2 headed and no shotted monster on the floor in Amar and Yakwe. We were basically reduced to a 3 man offense. Our team wasn't constructed, even full strength to move the ball like some of the NCAA programs. Both Lovett and Ponds are shoot first, slashing players, and with them both, we could slice up almost any defense. Throw in Ahmed, who had a nice season but would also throw up more garbage than a frat boy after a beer blast and buffet.

There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time.[/quote]

"There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time."

Beast who is in charge of constructing the team to blend with our playing style and strengths?
How much time do you give a guy who has been recruiting for 9 years as his sole responsibility to deliver players by design as opposed to grabbing the best transfer available?[/quote]

Yes. You could recruit archbishop molloy team and get 12 disciplined players. You really think they could get the talent level they brought in and get the type of players you want also? Do you really think that at any point over the last 25 years that we've recruited on an equal footing with the better programs?

Is there a single coach you were happy with post Carnesecca? Did you forget that no one wanted Looie's job, which was an eye opener.

You really think Danny Hurley would take this job, or that anyone worth mentioning would view thus as anything but a stepping stone?[/quote]

Interesting theories.
After reading this it reminds me that we should just be thankful that anyone, especially the great Chris Mullin, has ever wanted to coach at St. John's, in New York City, in bucolic Jamaica Estates because we are apparently an overhyped, damaged and overpriced product that could never attract any coach who would dare walk in the footsteps of Lou Carnesecca.
My memory is getting hazy with age but I tend to recall Lou Carnesecca handpicked his successor and that there was never a serious search in spite of the John Kresse rumors. Why would Kresse have ever left sunny Charleston for the shit hole you described?
Again, I may be imagining things with approaching dementia but haven't schools like Butler and Xavier been stepping stone schools? Haven't they survived those periods of coaching departures in beautiful Indianapolis and lovely Cincinnati?
Do I think Danny Hurley would take this job? Well, he took that shit on a shingle job in Kingston, Rhode Island didn't he? Do you really think that in your lowest moments of being a self-loathing ohn's fan, who would never send his offspring to alma mater, that St. John's basketball is a step down from Rhode Island? Of course not!
Have I ever been satisfied with any coaching hires after St. Louis Carnesecca? Yes, I was happy with the Mike Jarvis hire because he had a track record. Too bad his ego got in the way of what could have been a long and successful career in the Big Apple. My personal choice ever since the firing of Mike Jarvis has been Bob McKillop. A local boy with every qualification we could dream of. Unfortunately, I think Lou never liked the idea of hiring a coach that could outshine him and always recommended the low hanging fruit rather than reaching for the top of the coaching trees.
If your theory is correct, after Chris Mullin, we will settle for more damaged fruit and be forever the lowest of the low in Big East basketball.
One thing I am certain of is that there will be someone after Chris Mullin because time flies as do pigs in the St. John's continuum of hiring the next home run coach.

[/quote][/quote] Interesting game to play. Who did you want to coach during each coaching search post Loooie

I graduated 92 and was doing the games on the radio at the school and it was pretty much a forgone conclusion that Mahoney was going to get the job. I was fine with that. He was really nice guy and paid his dues. David Cain made him look like a genius and then after that oh boy he recruited but couldn't coach

Then after him I was on the Fran Train all the way. He might have been nuts but recruiting wise he was an animal. Showing up at Al Harringtons house with a fake tattoo similar to what Al had. That's balls ( pun intended )

I remember exactly where I was the day he got fired just like I knew where I was when the space shuttle challenger blew up. Coincidence ?

Javis gets hired and I was fine. Track record and seemed like the school paying more $ two could I not love those first couple years. Was my happiest as a fan other than Lavins first year and the guys in my class from 88-92. Then things went south and the guy stopped recruiting and did stupid shit and god did I wasn't him fired. That was bad

Norm I didnt want him hired. I'd have been fine with anyone else including the unibomber. I was definitely open to Austours favorite Doherty,Mckiillop or whomever. When Norm was hired I accepted it and dealt with the pain till I turned on him too

Lavin was to me the perfect hire that was available. Even now I'd do it again. That cancer killed our momentum but that first year was kind of like a cleansing of all the bad feelings over the last 8 years

Firing him I was on the fence. I wasn't some blind levin supporter.He whiffed on the big recruits and he was toast.

Mullin wasn't my first choice. I was on the either hurley bandwagon but I didnt think it was a bad hire. I fight and hope it doesn't turn into a levin delegation of duties. I want an active coach recruiting and on the floor

After all this writing I realize I wouldn't be a good ad LOL

 

[L J S A]

There were rumors of a handshake deal between the school and the Hurleys if Lavin never made it back from cancer. Not sure if it was true.

 

[austour]

Fuck you Maher, just say no to Doh.

 

[beast of the east]

[quote="Class of 72" post=277554][quote="Beast of the East" post=277548][quote="Class of 72" post=277514][quote="Beast of the East" post=277496
Have I ever been satisfied with any coaching hires after St. Louis Carnesecca? Yes, I was happy with the Mike Jarvis hire because he had a track record. Too bad his ego got in the way of what could have been a long and successful career in the Big Apple. My personal choice ever since the firing of Mike Jarvis has been Bob McKillop. A local boy with every qualification we could dream of. Unfortunately, I think Lou never liked the idea of hiring a coach that could outshine him and always recommended the low hanging fruit rather than reaching for the top of the coaching trees.
If your theory is correct, after Chris Mullin, we will settle for more damaged fruit and be forever the lowest of the low in Big East basketball.
One thing I am certain of is that there will be someone after Chris Mullin because time flies as do pigs in the St. John's continuum of hiring the next home run coach.

[/quote][/quote]

Well, nice attempt at a personal swipe, which i guess is one reason you were almost banned and were demoted.

Yes, you do have hazy memory. When Looie retired, with great fanfare st johns organized a national search committee with Frank Layden by then an executive of the Jazz as its chair. Speculation was th at no coach was off limits, and that guys with new York roots especially would take notice and apply. Bobby Cremins was mentioned, and the general feeling was that who would want to toil in Bloomington, Indiana, or in any far flung obscure place, when nyc was the Mecca and sju a prized job. One by one, whomever the committee reached out to, the answer was the same. No interest. Looie's submarket salary of 125,000 likely was a revelation too. My recollection was that every target told the committee the same thing - to hire long time assistant Mahoney, or at least thats what the committee claimed when Mahoney was ultimately hired. The school actually believed that coaches making more elsewhere would jump at the chance to make less, or at best a lateral move sakary wise for the prestige of st johns.

So we got Mahoney on the cheap and failed. Fraschilla came cheap, but once he had success had the temerity to shop himself while under contract and use another supposed offer as leverage. For that he got fired, forget about the allegations. They supposedly broke the bank for Jarvis with a package of sakary, sneaker money and a tv/radio show of 700-800k. Winning with Fran' s players and courted by Jordan to coach Charlotte he became a disinterested prima Dona who not only wouldn't deal with handlers but uttered the famous "I dont care about losing. I'm a teacher" line, which ultimately got him fired. He was so disliked with a gigantic ego that Harrington was bowled over by Norms recruiting resume for Self and Kansas, and his "this is my dream job" sales line. If only It were true and if only he could coach.

Then came the with that vitamin water money funded lavin. Yes there were intimations, but the price of admission to actually directing decision making was much higher than that, and there's a proper way to buy influence at st johns so the money never materialized from that source. Still the bank was broken for a tainted big name coach who partially restored success and the post season. 5 coaches, five failures, and the prodigal son seemed like a reasonable gamble.

 

[beast of the east]

[quote="mjmaherjr" post=277555][quote="Class of 72" post=277554][quote="Beast of the East" post=277548][quote="Class of 72" post=277514][quote="Beast of the East" post=277496]It's easy when you watch Villanova whip the ball around the court until they get a great look and wonder why can't we do that. Well, it's a nice thought, but Nova has 6 legitimate 3 point shooters, high basketball IQ players, and since everyone on that team can knock down an open shot, it's easy to give up a good look for a better look.

Early in the year I cringed when we put our 2 headed and no shotted monster on the floor in Amar and Yakwe. We were basically reduced to a 3 man offense. Our team wasn't constructed, even full strength to move the ball like some of the NCAA programs. Both Lovett and Ponds are shoot first, slashing players, and with them both, we could slice up almost any defense. Throw in Ahmed, who had a nice season but would also throw up more garbage than a frat boy after a beer blast and buffet.

There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time.[/quote]

"There is no question the ball could have moved much better, but last year's squad just wasn't constructed that way. Our recruiting strategy was basically let's get the best guys available and fill out this roster. No place for discernment, but hopefully that will improve over time."

Beast who is in charge of constructing the team to blend with our playing style and strengths?
How much time do you give a guy who has been recruiting for 9 years as his sole responsibility to deliver players by design as opposed to grabbing the best transfer available?[/quote]

Yes. You could recruit archbishop molloy team and get 12 disciplined players. You really think they could get the talent level they brought in and get the type of players you want also? Do you really think that at any point over the last 25 years that we've recruited on an equal footing with the better programs?

Is there a single coach you were happy with post Carnesecca? Did you forget that no one wanted Looie's job, which was an eye opener.

You really think Danny Hurley would take this job, or that anyone worth mentioning would view thus as anything but a stepping stone?[/quote]

Interesting theories.
After reading this it reminds me that we should just be thankful that anyone, especially the great Chris Mullin, has ever wanted to coach at St. John's, in New York City, in bucolic Jamaica Estates because we are apparently an overhyped, damaged and overpriced product that could never attract any coach who would dare walk in the footsteps of Lou Carnesecca.
My memory is getting hazy with age but I tend to recall Lou Carnesecca handpicked his successor and that there was never a serious search in spite of the John Kresse rumors. Why would Kresse have ever left sunny Charleston for the shit hole you described?
Again, I may be imagining things with approaching dementia but haven't schools like Butler and Xavier been stepping stone schools? Haven't they survived those periods of coaching departures in beautiful Indianapolis and lovely Cincinnati?
Do I think Danny Hurley would take this job? Well, he took that shit on a shingle job in Kingston, Rhode Island didn't he? Do you really think that in your lowest moments of being a self-loathing ohn's fan, who would never send his offspring to alma mater, that St. John's basketball is a step down from Rhode Island? Of course not!
Have I ever been satisfied with any coaching hires after St. Louis Carnesecca? Yes, I was happy with the Mike Jarvis hire because he had a track record. Too bad his ego got in the way of what could have been a long and successful career in the Big Apple. My personal choice ever since the firing of Mike Jarvis has been Bob McKillop. A local boy with every qualification we could dream of. Unfortunately, I think Lou never liked the idea of hiring a coach that could outshine him and always recommended the low hanging fruit rather than reaching for the top of the coaching trees.
If your theory is correct, after Chris Mullin, we will settle for more damaged fruit and be forever the lowest of the low in Big East basketball.
One thing I am certain of is that there will be someone after Chris Mullin because time flies as do pigs in the St. John's continuum of hiring the next home run coach.

[/quote][/quote] Interesting game to play. Who did you want to coach during each coaching search post Loooie

I graduated 92 and was doing the games on the radio at the school and it was pretty much a forgone conclusion that Mahoney was going to get the job. I was fine with that. He was really nice guy and paid his dues. David Cain made him look like a genius and then after that oh boy he recruited but couldn't coach

Then after him I was on the Fran Train all the way. He might have been nuts but recruiting wise he was an animal. Showing up at Al Harringtons house with a fake tattoo similar to what Al had. That's balls ( pun intended )

I remember exactly where I was the day he got fired just like I knew where I was when the space shuttle challenger blew up. Coincidence ?

Javis gets hired and I was fine. Track record and seemed like the school paying more $ two could I not love those first couple years. Was my happiest as a fan other than Lavins first year and the guys in my class from 88-92. Then things went south and the guy stopped recruiting and did stupid shit and god did I wasn't him fired. That was bad

Norm I didnt want him hired. I'd have been fine with anyone else including the unibomber. I was definitely open to Austours favorite Doherty,Mckiillop or whomever. When Norm was hired I accepted it and dealt with the pain till I turned on him too

Lavin was to me the perfect hire that was available. Even now I'd do it again. That cancer killed our momentum but that first year was kind of like a cleansing of all the bad feelings over the last 8 years

Firing him I was on the fence. I wasn't some blind levin supporter.He whiffed on the big recruits and he was toast.

Mullin wasn't my first choice. I was on the either hurley bandwagon but I didnt think it was a bad hire. I fight and hope it doesn't turn into a levin delegation of duties. I want an active coach recruiting and on the floor

After all this writing I realize I wouldn't be a good ad LOL[/quote]

9 man search committee didnt get far. No one they contacted wanted the job and no one applied.

[URL]http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date[/URL]=19920428&slug=1488836

 

[Knight]

3 years in, learning on the job, I think Mullin and staff have improved. Who thinks he could have gotten more out of the players he's had? He does need to take a more active role in recruiting. Does he think the end of the season gives him time off?

 

[we are sju]

[quote="L J S A" post=277561]There were rumors of a handshake deal between the school and the Hurleys if Lavin never made it back from cancer. Not sure if it was true.[/quote]

Who wants a coach that can't beat Duke? I don't.

 

[panther2]

I was at the game last night and watched the Women's team beat Penn. It was interesting to see Chris at the game along with most of the members of the men's team including Tariq. I have no idea what Tariq will do, but did not see any divide between him and the rest of the team. I think that it would be in his best interest and that of the team for him to remain at St. Johns. Hopefully, he and his father will eventually see this.

The comments in this thread have been unbelievable, the anger and name calling towards this young man and his father are ridiculous. Who among us have never thought about career options, lol. How many of those who are complaining about Tariq leaving were in favor of getting rid of Amar and are now waiting to see if a scholarship opens up if Kassoum leaves. What is the difference between Tariq and Kassoum, one was productive and the other has been disappointing over the last two years. Some of you need to get over yourselves, you do not own these kids and to talk about them or their families in disparaging ways is very disrespectful.

As for me, I hope that Tariq returns but if not, I wish him the best in all of his future endeavors. He played to the best of his ability while he was here and that is all I can expect of him.

 

[beast of the east]

[quote="panther2" post=277581]I was at the game last night and watched the Women's team beat Penn. It was interesting to see Chris at the game along with most of the members of the men's team including Tariq. I have no idea what Tariq will do, but did not see any divide between him and the rest of the team. I think that it would be in his best interest and that of the team for him to remain at St. Johns. Hopefully, he and his father will eventually see this.

The comments in this thread have been unbelievable, the anger and name calling towards this young man and his father are ridiculous. Who among us have never thought about career options, lol. How many of those who are complaining about Tariq leaving were in favor of getting rid of Amar and are now waiting to see if a scholarship opens up if Kassoum leaves. What is the difference between Tariq and Kassoum, one was productive and the other has been disappointing over the last two years. Some of you need to get over yourselves, you do not own these kids and to talk about them or their families in disparaging ways is very disrespectful.

As for me, I hope that Tariq returns but if not, I wish him the best in all of his future endeavors. He played to the best of his ability while he was here and that is all I can expect of him.[/quote]

Panther, each of the kids you mention are good kids who caused no problems whatsoever. Each of them will have managed to get their degrees in 4 years or less.

It's really nice to see there is no separation or animus between staff and Tariq. Neither deserve it.

However, the difference between Owens and the other two, is that Owens dad chooses to live on social media, and has become a mouthpiece for his son's intentions. He's expressed dissatisfaction about not enough touches, about Tariq's role. I will say that in his own mind at least, he is positive about the program and school.

God's gift had a similar decision to make, as did Christian Jones, and Williams. None were played out in social media, and none were as integral to the team's success.

The criticism here of Owens had nothing to do with his character, and more to do with the fact that he got an opportunity here , played himself into an important role, and would have an important role on next years presumable run at an ncaa bid. With no depth it's a setback for the program, and understandable that fans are a little ticked at proclamations of testing the water.

As Owen's dad says, it's not personal, it's just business. I just think if Tariq and his dad think their trajectory is higher, that's up to them, but when his dad expresses that publicly, he's opened himself and his son up to criticism.

I do agree though, that personal snipes at any players are unwarranted, and Tariq has done nothing to warrant that.

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

To respond to dine if the questions and issues raised in recent posts , here are my opinions which are only that and not inside info or, that which is passed as inside and isn’t . I was happy with Fran Fraschilla after Louie and Mahoney . Brian and Rutledge were a decent recruiting team for Louie . Brian had stumbled HC at Manhattan and that was likely a red flag but, was excused in lieu of his faithful 16 service to Louie and the School . Brian had a tremendous class of Lopez , Hamilton , Turner, etc but, couldn’t get them to play tirgether or whatever . By the time Fran took those guys over, it was too late to change the team dynamics and they were good but, not great . As for Mullin , anything he did to even field a team the first year after Lavin has to hold him harmless for .. Chris was lucky to get those 5 th year players at the last minute , Johnson , etc . Jordan was already out the door , Obepka was gone too , puffing away .. Mullin gets a total pass for year 1! It was a circumstantial consequence of Lavin being let go , in April .. Chris did entice a initial Lavin Recruit , Lovett , to still come here but, Marcus didn’t qualify and didn’t play in Year 1 . Bad luck . Mullin also was successful in getting much sought after Ponds to stay home . Additionally , he and maybe Matt got Simon and Clarke to come here this Season as transfers , after sitting out a year . But, getting these highly sought after Players had its price , it meant 2 Scholsrships but , also committed 2 starting positions to Justin and Marvin for this year . That reduced any attraction for Mullin and Matt to bring in the 4-5 Star traditional freshman player . Also , factor in , Lovett and Ponds were already dialed in as the Dynamic Soph duo , capable of 40 or more points per game . At that point , Yakwe and Ahmed were going to alternate the 5 th man position and Owens 6 th man . Lovett’s abrupt departure , derailed the whole season . It completely took the focus of the team and it’s scoring of Shamorie and Lovett out of the Equation . Any team losing a game in , game out Scorer like Lovett suffers s serious , if not fatal blow . Remember , Ponds was a pre Season All BE Player and Lovett Second team . 40 or more points s game guaranteed ! And , the apparent on Court Chemistry of the 2 would drive opponents batty to defend them . They meshed perfectly in Year 1 as freshman . All this went asunder in December and finalized in late January when Lovett left the Program . Our season was torpedoed and what team could have dealt with the loss of 1 of their 2 Dominant Players ? Nova ? Without Brunson or Bridges ? Xavier without Bluett or Machura ? And , even with Lovett we were still projected as a 5 or 6 Place team and maybe , a 9 and 9 BE Record . And , maybe a NCAA bid . At best . If Owens is gone and maybe that is a certainty , we will have our Core 3 and 2 newcomers . Likely Dixon and Diakite will step in to start . Trimble ? Will he stay ? Don’t know . Is he a key piece ? No ! Yakwe ? Not a key piece and better off elsewhere . We still need the big, Bruising post player . You must have a inside game in the BE with good shooting power forwards and quick small forwards . And , every player on the floor has to be able to drain the 3 , contested or not . We didn’t have that this year . Clarke being the closest to that but, not in the category or Rowsey or Howard or Jorgensen or , Cartwright . Many colleges bring in quality players from Europe , Africa or Antarctica many of whom are fundamentally sound and knkw how to play . Others are raw , like Yakwe but, are oversized and learn
Quickly . We need to be in the mix for these players and haven’t been . Either as 5 th year additions or true recruits . Losing Brooks was disappointing but, not terrible . Ever onward .

 

[redken]

[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=277591] ... Losing Brooks was disappointing but, not terrible. ....[/quote]
Assuming we don't land another 4-star big man, I couldn't disagree with you more.

 

[JohnnyFever]

[quote="redken" post=277597][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=277591] ... Losing Brooks was disappointing but, not terrible. ....[/quote]
Assuming we don't land another 4-star big man, I couldn't disagree with you more.[/quote]

Interesting take...I think losing Brooks hurts way more than potentially losing Owens. Brooks seemed to be the EXACT type of big we've been missing. Good size, real offensive skill set in paint, etc. He probably would've made a huge difference from day 1 here. Owens does not have his skill set. I've been closely watching SJ since about 2011 and I have yet to see one of those bigs play for us. Thought Sanchez would be but he never really panned out as we thought. We need to cut ties with the OSNA type bigs unless they're can't miss like Diallo. More bulk, more skill, more boxing out and rebounding. We need a real big to score down low and get in position for boards...not be on SC Top 10 with alley oops all day. Still makes no sense to me why we can't get 3 star bigs to transfer here from mid major programs. There has to be a reason...is it because we have a terrible reputation for bigs and recruits hear this? Guards are great but you still need some legitimate big men.