Adios Tariq

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[quote="Beast of the East" post=277585][quote="panther2" post=277581]I was at the game last night and watched the Women's team beat Penn. It was interesting to see Chris at the game along with most of the members of the men's team including Tariq. I have no idea what Tariq will do, but did not see any divide between him and the rest of the team. I think that it would be in his best interest and that of the team for him to remain at St. Johns. Hopefully, he and his father will eventually see this.

The comments in this thread have been unbelievable, the anger and name calling towards this young man and his father are ridiculous. Who among us have never thought about career options, lol. How many of those who are complaining about Tariq leaving were in favor of getting rid of Amar and are now waiting to see if a scholarship opens up if Kassoum leaves. What is the difference between Tariq and Kassoum, one was productive and the other has been disappointing over the last two years. Some of you need to get over yourselves, you do not own these kids and to talk about them or their families in disparaging ways is very disrespectful.

As for me, I hope that Tariq returns but if not, I wish him the best in all of his future endeavors. He played to the best of his ability while he was here and that is all I can expect of him.[/quote]

Panther, each of the kids you mention are good kids who caused no problems whatsoever. Each of them will have managed to get their degrees in 4 years or less.

It's really nice to see there is no separation or animus between staff and Tariq. Neither deserve it.

However, the difference between Owens and the other two, is that Owens dad chooses to live on social media, and has become a mouthpiece for his son's intentions. He's expressed dissatisfaction about not enough touches, about Tariq's role. I will say that in his own mind at least, he is positive about the program and school.

God's gift had a similar decision to make, as did Christian Jones, and Williams. None were played out in social media, and none were as integral to the team's success.

The criticism here of Owens had nothing to do with his character, and more to do with the fact that he got an opportunity here , played himself into an important role, and would have an important role on next years presumable run at an ncaa bid. With no depth it's a setback for the program, and understandable that fans are a little ticked at proclamations of testing the water.

As Owen's dad says, it's not personal, it's just business. I just think if Tariq and his dad think their trajectory is higher, that's up to them, but when his dad expresses that publicly, he's opened himself and his son up to criticism.

I do agree though, that personal snipes at any players are unwarranted, and Tariq has done nothing to warrant that.[/quote]



I agree that Tariq's father has an unrealistic view of his son's talents. Most parents do. He may be getting bad advice, I don't know. Just wish we could let the whole scenario play out and hope for the best.
 
I don't feel like we lost Brooks because I never thought he was coming here anyway.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=277567][quote="Class of 72" post=277554][quote="Beast of the East" post=277548][quote="Class of 72" post=277514][quote="Beast of the East" post=277496
Have I ever been satisfied with any coaching hires after St. Louis Carnesecca? Yes, I was happy with the Mike Jarvis hire because he had a track record. Too bad his ego got in the way of what could have been a long and successful career in the Big Apple. My personal choice ever since the firing of Mike Jarvis has been Bob McKillop. A local boy with every qualification we could dream of. Unfortunately, I think Lou never liked the idea of hiring a coach that could outshine him and always recommended the low hanging fruit rather than reaching for the top of the coaching trees.
If your theory is correct, after Chris Mullin, we will settle for more damaged fruit and be forever the lowest of the low in Big East basketball.
One thing I am certain of is that there will be someone after Chris Mullin because time flies as do pigs in the St. John's continuum of hiring the next home run coach.

URL]
[/quote][/quote]

Well, nice attempt at a personal swipe, which i guess is one reason you were almost banned and were demoted.

Yes, you do have hazy memory. When Looie retired, with great fanfare st johns organized a national search committee with Frank Layden by then an executive of the Jazz as its chair. Speculation was th at no coach was off limits, and that guys with new York roots especially would take notice and apply. Bobby Cremins was mentioned, and the general feeling was that who would want to toil in Bloomington, Indiana, or in any far flung obscure place, when nyc was the Mecca and sju a prized job. One by one, whomever the committee reached out to, the answer was the same. No interest. Looie's submarket salary of 125,000 likely was a revelation too. My recollection was that every target told the committee the same thing - to hire long time assistant Mahoney, or at least thats what the committee claimed when Mahoney was ultimately hired. The school actually believed that coaches making more elsewhere would jump at the chance to make less, or at best a lateral move sakary wise for the prestige of st johns.

So we got Mahoney on the cheap and failed. Fraschilla came cheap, but once he had success had the temerity to shop himself while under contract and use another supposed offer as leverage. For that he got fired, forget about the allegations. They supposedly broke the bank for Jarvis with a package of sakary, sneaker money and a tv/radio show of 700-800k. Winning with Fran' s players and courted by Jordan to coach Charlotte he became a disinterested prima Dona who not only wouldn't deal with handlers but uttered the famous "I dont care about losing. I'm a teacher" line, which ultimately got him fired. He was so disliked with a gigantic ego that Harrington was bowled over by Norms recruiting resume for Self and Kansas, and his "this is my dream job" sales line. If only It were true and if only he could coach.

Then came the with that vitamin water money funded lavin. Yes there were intimations, but the price of admission to actually directing decision making was much higher than that, and there's a proper way to buy influence at st johns so the money never materialized from that source. Still the bank was broken for a tainted big name coach who partially restored success and the post season. 5 coaches, five failures, and the prodigal son seemed like a reasonable gamble.[/quote]

Beast,
I hope you don't think the Lowest of the Low was directed at you. It was in reference to the way you paint the program as some untouchable bottom scum that no coach could ever be interested in and that we should kiss the ground Mullin walks on to deliver us out of Egypt. Sorry for omitting the emoticons as I know how sensitive you can be.;) B) :whistle: :dry:
I enjoy debating with you as much as Dr. Fun. Well, not really but it's fun to have a point-counter-point discussion as we will never agree on everything here.
As far as that Frank Layden-led search committee, I actually have a very good memory. It met once! It was decided then, after reaching out to John Kresse, who had zero interest in returning to New York, to offer the job to Brian. It was a foregone conclusion by everyone associated with the program that St. John's was not going to go out of the family. I know you attached an article related to that committee. You may have missed this sentence:
"Mahoney, the only person interviewed by the school's nine-member search committee, will be named tomorrow, sources close to the selection process said today."
Now, I am not saying that they didn't make another phone call other than John Kresse but the fact is no other coach ever publicly turned down the job. Coincidence? Maybe.
Finally, reaching out to John was a soft attempt to pave the way to selecting Brian because Mr. & Mrs. Kresse moved to Charleston originally for Sue to advance her career as an educator. John’s taking the job at the then lowly NAIA school was secondary. "SHE" was not returning to New York. Period.
 
[quote="IDRAFT" post=277611]I don't feel like we lost Brooks because I never thought he was coming here anyway.[/quote]
Maybe so. But I think most of us see committing and then reneging a couple of months later as losing.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=277612][quote="Beast of the East" post=277567][quote="Class of 72" post=277554][quote="Beast of the East" post=277548][quote="Class of 72" post=277514][quote="Beast of the East" post=277496
Have I ever been satisfied with any coaching hires after St. Louis Carnesecca? Yes, I was happy with the Mike Jarvis hire because he had a track record. Too bad his ego got in the way of what could have been a long and successful career in the Big Apple. My personal choice ever since the firing of Mike Jarvis has been Bob McKillop. A local boy with every qualification we could dream of. Unfortunately, I think Lou never liked the idea of hiring a coach that could outshine him and always recommended the low hanging fruit rather than reaching for the top of the coaching trees.
If your theory is correct, after Chris Mullin, we will settle for more damaged fruit and be forever the lowest of the low in Big East basketball.
One thing I am certain of is that there will be someone after Chris Mullin because time flies as do pigs in the St. John's continuum of hiring the next home run coach.

URL]
[/quote][/quote]

Well, nice attempt at a personal swipe, which i guess is one reason you were almost banned and were demoted.

Yes, you do have hazy memory. When Looie retired, with great fanfare st johns organized a national search committee with Frank Layden by then an executive of the Jazz as its chair. Speculation was th at no coach was off limits, and that guys with new York roots especially would take notice and apply. Bobby Cremins was mentioned, and the general feeling was that who would want to toil in Bloomington, Indiana, or in any far flung obscure place, when nyc was the Mecca and sju a prized job. One by one, whomever the committee reached out to, the answer was the same. No interest. Looie's submarket salary of 125,000 likely was a revelation too. My recollection was that every target told the committee the same thing - to hire long time assistant Mahoney, or at least thats what the committee claimed when Mahoney was ultimately hired. The school actually believed that coaches making more elsewhere would jump at the chance to make less, or at best a lateral move sakary wise for the prestige of st johns.

So we got Mahoney on the cheap and failed. Fraschilla came cheap, but once he had success had the temerity to shop himself while under contract and use another supposed offer as leverage. For that he got fired, forget about the allegations. They supposedly broke the bank for Jarvis with a package of sakary, sneaker money and a tv/radio show of 700-800k. Winning with Fran' s players and courted by Jordan to coach Charlotte he became a disinterested prima Dona who not only wouldn't deal with handlers but uttered the famous "I dont care about losing. I'm a teacher" line, which ultimately got him fired. He was so disliked with a gigantic ego that Harrington was bowled over by Norms recruiting resume for Self and Kansas, and his "this is my dream job" sales line. If only It were true and if only he could coach.

Then came the with that vitamin water money funded lavin. Yes there were intimations, but the price of admission to actually directing decision making was much higher than that, and there's a proper way to buy influence at st johns so the money never materialized from that source. Still the bank was broken for a tainted big name coach who partially restored success and the post season. 5 coaches, five failures, and the prodigal son seemed like a reasonable gamble.[/quote]

Beast,
I hope you don't think the Lowest of the Low was directed at you. It was in reference to the way you paint the program as some untouchable bottom scum that no coach could ever be interested in and that we should kiss the ground Mullin walks on to deliver us out of Egypt. Sorry for omitting the emoticons as I know how sensitive you can be.;) B) :whistle: :dry:
I enjoy debating with you as much as Dr. Fun. Well, not really but it's fun to have a point-counter-point discussion as we will never agree on everything here.
As far as that Frank Layden-led search committee, I actually have a very good memory. It met once! It was decided then, after reaching out to John Kresse, who had zero interest in returning to New York, to offer the job to Brian. It was a foregone conclusion by everyone associated with the program that St. John's was not going to go out of the family. I know you attached an article related to that committee. You may have missed this sentence:
"Mahoney, the only person interviewed by the school's nine-member search committee, will be named tomorrow, sources close to the selection process said today."
Now, I am not saying that they didn't make another phone call other than John Kresse but the fact is no other coach ever publicly turned down the job. Coincidence? Maybe.
Finally, reaching out to John was a soft attempt to pave the way to selecting Brian because Mr. & Mrs. Kresse moved to Charleston originally for Sue to advance her career as an educator. John’s taking the job at the then lowly NAIA school was secondary. "SHE" was not returning to New York. Period.[/quote]

I think you know I like you, so let's end the sniping.

There was a nine member search committee, headed up by Frank Layden, who had stepped down from a successful run as head coach of the Jazz, and who (I didn't know this ) was a Carnesecca assistant. I think if it was foregone that they hired Mahoney, they would not have assembled the committee. With SJU roots, Kresse was a logical guy to reach out to. But no interviews shows just how little interest there was by established coaches (their 1st target) to come to St. John's and New York. The cost of living is higher, urban living wasn't as popular then, and New York traffic stinks, and the weather isn't as nice as the south. Whatever the reason, no one was interested, so at their price tag, they reached to Mahoney, who had three consecutive losing seasons after a surprising season one.

I'm not sure if our program is snakebitten, or that we've set unrealistic expectations. If you look at the programs that have a consistent NCAA presence (let's say 2/3 of the time over a prolonged period in major programs as opposed to mid major conferences) the number becomes pretty small. We had a coach who put us in the postseason every season he coached, and the dance 2 out of the 4 he coached, yet he was banished - maybe with good reason.
 
Topic has shifted away from Tariq for the most part and back to the coulda shoulda woulda debate that losing horse players engage in.
 
Well, IIRC, Obekpa asked for and received a release twice. The first time he wound up staying so there is the possibility that occurs this time with Owens.
 
[quote="SJU85" post=277630]Well, IIRC, Obekpa asked for and received a release twice. The first time he wound up staying so there is the possibility that occurs this time with Owens.[/quote]

You never know
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=277631][quote="SJU85" post=277630]Well, IIRC, Obekpa asked for and received a release twice. The first time he wound up staying so there is the possibility that occurs this time with Owens.[/quote]

You never know[/quote]

An Owens that knows his role and gets 7 and 7 and around 3 would be great. Even if he never adds another pound. An Owens who thinks he should shoot even one more shot than last year...... Good luck at Wagner College.
 
Interesting that Tariq was with team and Staff at ladies game last night. I might ‘wage’ on the ‘you never know’ card.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=277636]Interesting that Tariq was with team and Staff at ladies game last night. I might ‘wage’ on the ‘you never know’ card.[/quote]

Tariq is not the problem. His Twitter happy dad is. If he accepts whatever role Mully sees fit then welcome back. If not then bye bye.
 
apparently he is looking at Maryland. LOL if Renard thinks they will give him as much PT as he will get at sju next year.
 
Just curious would this testing the waters with other schools be tolerated back in the day by college coaches? What do I know, but as a coach if a kid who I typically have started and played in all games was not committed to playing with me I would tell him to take a hike. With that being said I hope Owens is back.
 
He's from Maryland, so of course they are on his list. They brought in Obi this past season as a grad transfer and he didn't do anything, so maybe we should hold off on the laughter about him thinking he can get an offer.
 
His wish list doesn't matter. It matters if Maryland has TO on their list.

If MD had contact before today's release granted that would be violation.
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=277655]His wish list doesn't matter. It matters if Maryland has TO on their list.

If MD had contact before today's release granted that would be violation.[/quote]

A practice of most recruiters through under radar intermediaries
 
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I had to wait a couple of days before I commented on Tariq.

He is how I see it.
Tariq came here 3 years ago as a transfer because he was not getting any PT. We provided him a place to develop his game as he sits out and then in his 2nd playing year here plays more then 30 minutes a game and shows improvement. Now he wants to desert our program and his teammates. Next year is the year our team would have a great chance at a run in the NCAA Tournament. As a teammate I would be pissed. As a Coach I would say you want to go.. Go but the option to come back is off the table..

A kid transferring because of playing time or a coaching change is one thing, but kid being selfish and just looking for a big better deal and turning his back on his teammates. I don't want that kid at St John's..

Bye Tariq
 
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[quote="Red2395" post=277660]I had to wait a couple of days before I commented on Tariq.

He is how I see it.
Tariq came here 3 years ago as a transfer because he was not getting any PT. We provided him a place to develop his game as he sits out and then in his 2nd playing year here plays more then 30 minutes a game and shows improvement. Now he wants to desert our program and his teammates. Next year is the year our team would have a great chance at a run in the NCAA Tournament. As a teammate I would be pissed. As a Coach I would say you want to go.. Go but the option to come back is off the table..

A kid transferring because of playing time or a coaching change is one thing, but kid being selfish and just looking for a big better deal and turning his back on his teammates. I don't want that kid at St John's..

Bye Tariq[/quote] i agree w you. his dad has made it perfectly clear the intentions are selfish AF. doesnt give a d*mn about his teammates
 
[quote="RedStormNC" post=277655]His wish list doesn't matter. It matters if Maryland has TO on their list.

If MD had contact before today's release granted that would be violation.[/quote]

They are losing some bigs and they had a freshman big who was pretty good. Maybe TO would rather take the sure thing than wait for us to recruit a big guy he can play next to. Not sure who their incoming recruits are.
 
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