Adios Tariq

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The 5th year Grad Transfer is a NCAA tool they created . It’s been used by schools to get a ureverse type “ 1 and
Doner.” The School gets a experienced Player torent for 1 year . It fills a gap for teams that have a spot to fill . Rowsey on Marquette is a 5 th year Player . Often the 5 th year Player is from a lesser Conference School and wants a shot at glory on a bigger stage . And , they are sought after because , like Rowsey, they have a proven skill, Shooting , Rebounding or just being very Tall. We could use 1 or 2 ourselves . But, i f you want to build a team thathas 4 year players ,like Nova, Xavier , Providence , Seton Hall, etc . , you can usually only have 1 or 2 spots available . Owens and his Dad obviously think they have already found or will find a spot for him , where he will get achance to shoot more . He can’t be looked at as a Rebounder or Big Body or spot on defender . He does foul a lot and spent a lot of time sitting as a result . Of the core group , he will be the least missed . I am surprised many here are bemoaning his leaving as a irreplaceable loss . Diakite is here and is going to be more physical and a inside player than Tariq . I think Mullin gave Owens a tremendous opportunity to play a lot of minutes here in a major Conference . Obviously , Rick Barnes at Tenn. didn’t think Tariq would fit on his Team . Good luck to him . Tariq is a Role player that despite his height is more a Small Forward type . Wants to shoot , block shots and face the basket , not rebound or body up for the tough inside play . Thanks for your 2 Years here and ever onward .
 
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[quote="L J S A" post=277122][quote="redken" post=277105][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=277104]Of course he’s a loss. Only Clark and Keita are bigs w exp. The 2 bigs we recruited are not ranked that high. Can’t expect much from them next year. Hoping we can get a competent grad transfer and JUCO big.[/quote]
If you're referencing Roberts and Earlington, "can't expect much from them next year" is an understatement. And let's face it, Earlington is not a big. We've got guards who are just as tall as he is.[/quote]

You are too obsessed with height. It's not the NBA. He's a 6'5" kid who more often than not will be on 6'7"/6'8" kids.[/quote]
Not a knock against Earlington, who sounds like a bruiser, but we do, in fact, need size, especially at the 5. Without Owens, right now Keita's the only one we have who's 6'-9" and until he proves otherwise he's a question mark. 6-'5" guys playing guys who are a couple of inches taller is one thing, but having them defend 6'-11" & 7'-0" opponents (as we saw this year when Owens wasn't on the floor) isn't going to get it done.
 
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[quote="Knight" post=277141]I'm kind of surprised with some posters maligning Matt and his recruiting efforts. I think he's done a great job. He's brought us some good talent. At least we're in the conversation with some decent players. It's on Mullin to have a program in place that is attractive to prospects. He needs to be a major part in recruiting players, and I don't know that he hasn't. Kids aren't coming here to play for Matt.[/quote]

I have supported Matt and think a lot of his transfer efforts have reaped dividends. That said, at risk of being repetitive, program would be better served with two guys beating bushes for players.

Greg gave it a shot with Jordan Brown, but that probably won’t have a positive outcome and seems to be an area where he has a huge learning curve. He has plenty on his plate with game planning and in strategic input.

Establishing relationships with AAU programs, etc takes time and a “sales” type DNA. Just me, but I don’t think that’s Greg.

Promoting Mitch certainly did not fill the standard two recruiters model gap we have. Yes, Slice/Matt tandem soured, but does not mean we have to have one guy totally determining who they target. A second recruiter would probably create competition, but that’s CM’s job to manage. Chris’ role for most part in recruiting is to “close” after assessing the recommendations of staff.

I just feel our current model overly empowers one guy & also places all the blame on him when things go south.

How they get to a two pronged approach is for Chris to figure out. If he opts to stay put so be it,, but to blame one coach for shortcomings or solely praise him for a positive outcome seems to be folly. One AC can’t do it all nor should he.
 
As we were coming to the end of this season, there were numerous posts opining that three biggest needs to facilitate success next year were (I) retain the core four, (ii) add an experienced assistant coach with big time recruiting experience and (iii) add a difference making big man with a low post game who can rebound. Given the fact that one of the core four appears to be leaving, we now need to make that two difference making big men along with that experienced assistant coach. Hope Chris is open to tinkering with his staff; either way, results next year have to improve significantly for program continue to be taken seriously.
 
Great post Paultz.


How they do not slide over, free up a little cash to add one more asst/recruiter is so short sighted.

Seems like admin is at mercy of who Mullin wants at his side until ship swims or sinks
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=277143]The 5th year Grad Transfer is a NCAA tool they created . It’s been used by schools to get a ureverse type “ 1 and
Doner.” The School gets a experienced Player torent for 1 year . It fills a gap for teams that have a spot to fill . Rowsey on Marquette is a 5 th year Player . Often the 5 th year Player is from a lesser Conference School and wants a shot at glory on a bigger stage . And , they are sought after because , like Rowsey, they have a proven skill, Shooting , Rebounding or just being very Tall. We could use 1 or 2 ourselves . But, i f you want to build a team thathas 4 year players ,like Nova, Xavier , Providence , Seton Hall, etc . , you can usually only have 1 or 2 spots available . Owens and his Dad obviously think they have already found or will find a spot for him , where he will get achance to shoot more . He can’t be looked at as a Rebounder or Big Body or spot on defender . He does foul a lot and spent a lot of time sitting as a result . Of the core group , he will be the least missed . I am surprised many here are bemoaning his leaving as a irreplaceable loss . Diakite is here and is going to be more physical and a inside player than Tariq . I think Mullin gave Owens a tremendous opportunity to play a lot of minutes here in a major Conference . Obviously , Rick Barnes at Tenn. didn’t think Tariq would fit on his Team . Good luck to him . Tariq is a Role player that despite his height is more a Small Forward type . Wants to shoot , block shots and face the basket , not rebound or body up for the tough inside play . Thanks for your 2 Years here and ever onward .[/quote]

Good post but Rosuey was actually a sit out transfer. He played two years at Marquette after transferring following his sophomore year.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=277145][quote="Knight" post=277141]I'm kind of surprised with some posters maligning Matt and his recruiting efforts. I think he's done a great job. He's brought us some good talent. At least we're in the conversation with some decent players. It's on Mullin to have a program in place that is attractive to prospects. He needs to be a major part in recruiting players, and I don't know that he hasn't. Kids aren't coming here to play for Matt.[/quote]

I have supported Matt and think a lot of his transfer efforts have reaped dividends. That said, at risk of being repetitive, program would be better served with two guys beating bushes for players.

Greg gave it a shot with Jordan Brown, but that probably won’t have a positive outcome and seems to be an area where he has a huge learning curve. He has plenty on his plate with game planning and in strategic input.

Establishing relationships with AAU programs, etc takes time and a “sales” type DNA. Just me, but I don’t think that’s Greg.

Promoting Mitch certainly did not fill the standard two recruiters model gap we have. Yes, Slice/Matt tandem soured, but does not mean we have to have one guy totally determining who they target. A second recruiter would probably create competition, but that’s CM’s job to manage. Chris’ role for most part in recruiting is to “close” after assessing the recommendations of staff.

I just feel our current model overly empowers one guy & also places all the blame on him when things go south.

How they get to a two pronged approach is for Chris to figure out. If he opts to stay put so be it,, but to blame one coach for shortcomings or solely praise him for a positive outcome seems to be folly. One AC can’t do it all nor should he.[/quote]


And it puts a lot of pressure on one guy to be everywhere. This program needs two guys recruiting and Mullin closing. Recruiting hasn’t been stellar to say the least, or even consistent for many years. To be on top of the Big East we gotta have a 4* and good complementary players every year.
 
Paultz, I agree. I am also cautiously optimistic that change is coming to the coaching staff, or at the very least, a "restructuring."

I am hardly a sunshine kind of person, but I believe the program is one lucky break from turning the corner.

And I think it happens with a couple of grad transfer big men. The bigs are probably still playing in the NCAA or NIT. I find it hard to believe the Owens news surprised the staff.

Now back to being my normal ornery, curmudgeon self.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=277145][quote="Knight" post=277141]I'm kind of surprised with some posters maligning Matt and his recruiting efforts. I think he's done a great job. He's brought us some good talent. At least we're in the conversation with some decent players. It's on Mullin to have a program in place that is attractive to prospects. He needs to be a major part in recruiting players, and I don't know that he hasn't. Kids aren't coming here to play for Matt.[/quote]

I have supported Matt and think a lot of his transfer efforts have reaped dividends. That said, at risk of being repetitive, program would be better served with two guys beating bushes for players.

Greg gave it a shot with Jordan Brown, but that probably won’t have a positive outcome and seems to be an area where he has a huge learning curve. He has plenty on his plate with game planning and in strategic input.

Establishing relationships with AAU programs, etc takes time and a “sales” type DNA. Just me, but I don’t think that’s Greg.

Promoting Mitch certainly did not fill the standard two recruiters model gap we have. Yes, Slice/Matt tandem soured, but does not mean we have to have one guy totally determining who they target. A second recruiter would probably create competition, but that’s CM’s job to manage. Chris’ role for most part in recruiting is to “close” after assessing the recommendations of staff.

I just feel our current model overly empowers one guy & also places all the blame on him when things go south.

How they get to a two pronged approach is for Chris to figure out. If he opts to stay put so be it,, but to blame one coach for shortcomings or solely praise him for a positive outcome seems to be folly. One AC can’t do it all nor should he.[/quote]

Agree.
 
In reality he is probably leaving for a school that makes the ncaa tournament on a consistent basis. Look at the timing it's during the ncaa tournament, him and his Dad probably lost a lot of faith in the staff this season. Can you really blame them? Yes the players are the ones on the court but so far Mullin and co. haven't won too many games. You can't give the staff a complete pass, it's not all their fault but c'mon be for real. The Duke and Villanova wins didn't just fix all our problems like we like to think. We are bleeding out players at a ridiculous rate. The LoVett loss hurt but we shouldn't of lost 11 games in a row because of it. We proved that by beating those two teams, we had the players to have a better year and we didn't. Call a spade a spade. I'm not saying to fire Mullin and I'm not saying it's all his fault but he has to take some type of responsibility for the defections since he's been here. Even in this transfer era we are still losing more players than normal. It's actually hilarious to see posts in all caps that say ITS ABSOLUTELY NOT THE STAFF'S FAULT or whatever lol.
 
In an interview last year Tom Izzo was asked if having his last four year players all get to play in the final four helped in recruiting and he stated the only thing that recruits cared about was if I could get them to the NBA.
Four years ago Tarig was a 6' 11" 185 lb. high school senior with Dad dreaming of him maturing into a 7' 230lb college Jr. or Sr. attracting pro attention. Hasn't happened.
 
[quote="Dan V" post=277153]In reality he is probably leaving for a school that makes the ncaa tournament on a consistent basis. Look at the timing it's during the ncaa tournament, him and his Dad probably lost a lot of faith in the staff this season. Can you really blame them? Yes the players are the ones on the court but so far Mullin and co. haven't won too many games. You can't give the staff a complete pass, it's not all their fault but c'mon be for real. The Duke and Villanova wins didn't just fix all our problems like we like to think. We are bleeding out players at a ridiculous rate. The LoVett loss hurt but we shouldn't of lost 11 games in a row because of it. We proved that by beating those two teams, we had the players to have a better year and we didn't. Call a spade a spade. I'm not saying to fire Mullin and I'm not saying it's all his fault but he has to take some type of responsibility for the defections since he's been here. Even in this transfer era we are still losing more players than normal. It's actually hilarious to see posts in all caps that say ITS ABSOLUTELY NOT THE STAFF'S FAULT or whatever lol.[/quote]

This hit like a brick. Licking our wounds over a roller coaster and disappointing season, primed to move on with the core 4, a cadre of transfers, committed recruits, targeting a big guy, thinking ‘great, can’t wait until next year when we’ll have depth’...and Tariq does a fade-away.
This year’s woes was due primarily to LoVett’s Houdini-like exit at the very start of the BEC season. The team, with little depth to begin with had to regroup, and—although staying in all but a few games—looked out of sync on offense and defense.
LoVett, in addition to being our 2nd leading scorer, set up our offense, and disrupted other teams offensive flows more than any other player.
We lost LoVett and Tariq because of who they are and who their dad’s are—a bit delusional and dreaming of NBA $$$$$$’s.
We recruit those type of guys because we have to, because our program has been scraping along the bottom for most of the past 20 years, and those are the guys we reach out to in our desperation to rebuild and revive our tradition.
We have to move beyond those guys, and get solid 3*/4* who want to be here.
I think the Staff has been planning that very strategy. Roberts, Williams, and Earlington are the beginning, and it could come to fruition with the ‘18-‘19 Class that Matt and CM and the Staff have been cultivating for the past 2 years.
Have faith.
We’ll get there.
 
[quote="gman" post=277131]When we landed all these transfers I flagged the problem that we burn a roster spot on them sitting on the bench and then have the risk they wouldn’t stick around for their senior years. It’s pretty a foregone conclusion that kids who graduate are going to transfer. It happened with Williams, will likely happen with Owens and could very well happen with Simon, Clark, Dixon and Keita. It’s just part of the current NCAA[/quote]

The sign of poor recruiting management. Always trying to plug the leaking dam with the same plugs that caused the leak in the first place. Fifth year players leave who were not happy with their role to begin with and think they could do better and that also reflects on the coaches who recruited them and what promises they made in that transfer process. There should never be more than 2 transfers any season and they should never be starting 5 talent but role players. Good recruiters and coaches work their asses off with prep targets. The good ones get one or two every year and the bullshit artists like Matt almost never get them. Finally, Mullin and Mitch have to leave their HOF egos at the door and start busting their asses with recruits rather than visiting California in the off season.
 
I think Tariq's best option, if he's not coming back, is to play pro ball overseas. I can't see him ever playing in the NBA.
 
[quote="Knight" post=277164]I think Tariq's best option, if he's not coming back, is to play pro ball overseas. I can't see him ever playing in the NBA.[/quote]

Especially if he goes to the Italian league. He would gain 20 pounds in his first year. By his second season he would be a 249 pound star in the league. At St. John's we get photo ops from the weight room and almost no results because these kids are not eating Italian food or drinking enough beer.
 
Owens was a nice complimentary player but if you look at the way Mullin wants to run the offense he needs guards and athletic wings who can penetrate and shoot the three. Then what he really needs and what thus team lacked was a big 6’9 - 6’10 240 - 260 guy to play D in the paint , rebound and score some put backs and pass a little out of the post. If he has a few offensive post moves all the better. Owens is not that guy and he’s not good enough on the wing to play consistently in the offense Mullin wants to play. Keita is the perfect guy for this team. We need one more 5th year guy in the same mold to back him up and maybe another combo forward wing and we can be a very good team next year without Owens as long as Ponds stays
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=277163][quote="gman" post=277131]When we landed all these transfers I flagged the problem that we burn a roster spot on them sitting on the bench and then have the risk they wouldn’t stick around for their senior years. It’s pretty a foregone conclusion that kids who graduate are going to transfer. It happened with Williams, will likely happen with Owens and could very well happen with Simon, Clark, Dixon and Keita. It’s just part of the current NCAA[/quote]

The sign of poor recruiting management. Always trying to plug the leaking dam with the same plugs that caused the leak in the first place. Fifth year players leave who were not happy with their role to begin with and think they could do better and that also reflects on the coaches who recruited them and what promises they made in that transfer process. There should never be more than 2 transfers any season and they should never be starting 5 talent but role players. Good recruiters and coaches work their asses off with prep targets. The good ones get one or two every year and the bullshit artists like Matt almost never get them. Finally, Mullin and Mitch have to leave their HOF egos at the door and start busting their asses with recruits rather than visiting California in the off season.[/quote]

A lazy, recruiting plan is what you're basically stating. Lethargy is likely gonna promote a lethargic recruiting plan. I guess that's what you'd expect when 3/4 of the staff (that's allowed to recruit) won't get off their ass, huh?
 
In Tariq's father's defense -- something I never thought I'd say -- it's possible that when we were recruiting Tariq (we recruited him, not vice versa, right?), Mullin told the father that he saw Tariq's future as a wing, where, given his physique, he would have a better chance of making money as a pro, and that he and Mitch would develop his outside game. But as it turned out, of course, he was forced to play Tariq at the 5, and as it looked like that's where he'd play again next year ... either that or coming off the bench. Either way, his dad might have felt Mullin misled him and that it was time to move on for his final year of eligibility. Just speculation, of course -- and it doesn't allay our frustration and, in most cases, our anger over the move -- but there's a good chance things aren't as black & white they're generally perceived to be.
 
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