a lot of endlessly repetitive chatter

[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=294093]Thanks Whopper . The point about Lewis was , we were in the Mix , at some point ... He is in that top 50 category and likely will go to one of the Schools I had mentioned . Florida , of the SEC, is clearly in that category . If that is where he winds up , good luck to him ..., another thing about top Level recruits is , they may not live up to the Press Clippings , once they get to these schools . Kyle Anderson of St Anthony’s comes to mind . Lavin’s recruited him strongly but, he went to UCLA , where he was a nice Player but, not All World . He left , after his second or third year and may have landed a spot on a NBA Roster but, clearly as a bench player , with short tenure . Who knows where he is now ? Quickly forgotten for sure .[/quote]

Kyle Anderson was a Third-team AA during his sophomore--and last season--at UCLA. A second-team All-Pac-12 as a freshman. And, the PAC-12 Tournament MOP as a sophomore.

He recently signed a four-year, $37.2 million dollar deal with the Memphis Grizzlies. Overpaid, IMO, but....

Regardless, he had a solid but brief collegiate career, and now able to plenty provide for him and his family in the NBA (bench player or not).

Always nice of you to attempt to debase players to fit your agenda, and speak on things you know nothing about.
 
Chicago , Ponds was the BE leading Scorer and the Player every opponent feared ... While his numbers weren’t outstanding , there were reasons why ... He played like 2 players , himself and the Player slot assigned to LoVett . True , Ponds was a top 100 player but, in my mind he’s improved greatly on that ranking . As for the 2 other Players who have improved their game , Simon and Clarke , were much better players at Season end than Season beginning ... Simon became a dangerous player at both ends of the Court ... Let’s see if CM and Richmond are able to improve his 12-15 foot Jumper . I think they can ... Clarke became much more aggressive going to the Basket as the Season wore on .., Richmond, as a Player, was nearly unstoppable driving to the hoop . Very strong Physically and has a great Stop and Jump Shot . I think Mitch improved Marvin’s game immensely . Other than those 3 Players, the rest of our Team were role players . Owens and Trimble contributing here and there ..
 
SLYFOXX1968 wrote: As for the 2 other Players who have improved their game , Simon and Clarke , were much better players at Season end than Season beginning …

There's no doubt that Simon and Clark have shown significant improvement during their time at SJU. Would be interesting to hear who they would give most credit to for that improvement.
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=294100]Chicago , Ponds was the BE leading Scorer and the Player every opponent feared ... While his numbers weren’t outstanding , there were reasons why ... He played like 2 players , himself and the Player slot assigned to LoVett . True , Ponds was a top 100 player but, in my mind he’s improved greatly on that ranking . As for the 2 other Players who have improved their game , Simon and Clarke , were much better players at Season end than Season beginning ... Simon became a dangerous player at both ends of the Court ... Let’s see if CM and Richmond are able to improve his 12-15 foot Jumper . I think they can ... Clarke became much more aggressive going to the Basket as the Season wore on .., Richmond, as a Player, was nearly unstoppable driving to the hoop . Very strong Physically and has a great Stop and Jump Shot . I think Mitch improved Marvin’s game immensely . Other than those 3 Players, the rest of our Team were role players . Owens and Trimble contributing here and there ..[/quote]

Okay Sly, I luv all 3 guys and you make good points about how important they are to the team and the solid - great years they had last year, in what was a tumultuous and frustrating season for the team.
Ponds had both an amazing and a frustrating year—with his 3 point shooting falling off to subpar levels but I think for obvious reasons: double-teamed, the only ‘go to’ guy, and rubber band legs in the 2nd half.
Simon had a great year defensively and showed phenomenal moves offensively at times and Clark was steady, our best 3-point shooter statistically and, as you said, drove more to the basket as well as improved his rebounding in the second half of the BEC.
I don’t know ‘how much’ of that was Mitch, coaching each individually, or their natural progression as players.
I agree with you that Mitch Richmond was a great pro and could/should be a great asset to any college team.
The question is was he, is he, and will he be this season?
My other point is, IF Mitch is exclusively a Player Development AC, that leaves vacant an equally vital function: recruiting.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=294104]I don’t know ‘how much’ of that was Mitch [/quote]

Neither does he. Speculatory. Oh, I forgot that is a bad word around these parts, according to him.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=294104]IF Mitch is exclusively a Player Development AC, that leaves vacant an equally vital function: recruiting.[/quote]

Fresh take.
 
[quote="fun" post=294112][quote="Chicago Days" post=294104]IF Mitch is exclusively a Player Development AC, that leaves vacant an equally vital function: recruiting.[/quote]

Fresh take.[/quote]

Did you mean Mitch Richmond "Fresh Prince of Bel-Air"?
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=294093]Thanks Whopper . The point about Lewis was , we were in the Mix , at some point ... He is in that top 50 category and likely will go to one of the Schools I had mentioned . Florida , of the SEC, is clearly in that category . If that is where he winds up , good luck to him ..., another thing about top Level recruits is , they may not live up to the Press Clippings , once they get to these schools . Kyle Anderson of St Anthony’s comes to mind . Lavin’s recruited him strongly but, he went to UCLA , where he was a nice Player but, not All World . He left , after his second or third year and may have landed a spot on a NBA Roster but, clearly as a bench player , with short tenure . Who knows where he is now ? Quickly forgotten for sure .[/quote]



Kyle Anderson left UCLA after his sophmore season and was drafted in the 1st round by San Antonio, where he played for three years. As a free agent this summer, he signed a 4 year 38 million dollar contract with Memphis.

I understand that you are a supporter of Coach Mullin, but disparaging recruits is not the way to prove your point. I can tell you from personal experience that we are the only school where an Assistant coach does not go out recruiting during the summer. I have refrained from commenting on this because there may be extenuating circumstances that we are not aware of

As a St Johns alum and fan for almost 60 years, I am rooting for the program to succeed. Recruits like Kyle Anderson and Scottie Lewis, while not a guarantee for success, beat the alternatives of 2 and 3 star players.
 
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[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=294090]Good one , 72. Were you a Business School Major at SJU? If so, your Organization Chart wouldn’t have passed Muster . But, it doesn’t detract from the humor of your post .. even I appreciated it . And , as a aside , how many of the Top 50 recruits does any BE School ever get ? Nova is a exception for the last 5-6 years but, before that the Wildcats weren’t beating out Kentucky , Duke, Kansas, Mich State, NC, UCLA, Arizona, etc for many recruits . These Large State Universites , Duke being a exception , have B.B. budgets that are several times larger than any BE School . It makes a difference . And , let’s be real too , many of the large schools mentioned are targeting the 1 and done kids , which nearly all BE schools are not in the running for usually . Plus , a lot of the top 50-100 kids don’t commit until well into the Fall Semester or even , early in the Spring Semester . They wait and see where they are going to get PT and what their role will be .. a lot depends on whether a higher rated player goes to a school they may be targeting . At this point , regardless of the criticism pointed at Mullin , we are in the mix for several players, highly ranked , that have St John’s in their mix . Gaffney, Lewis, etc all have been on Mullin’s Radar for several years and we are in the mix . Whether we get these players or not, is anybody’s guess at this point . The Big Schools will always have an advantage over us and nearly all the BE schools for the top level recruit . It’s the way it is . And , Mike Rice wasn’t going to change that .. Despite the hoopla that he would .,[/quote]

Thank Sly! My undergraduate years were spent cutting classes and hanging out in Alumni Hall. I majored in avoiding the draft. As luck would have it I got drafted anyway where my prestigious St. John's college degree in Economics got me a recommendation to Officer Candidate School (OCS) where I as a 2nd Louie I would have been fragged by the enlisted men while those with heal spurs from ivy league schools were banging Czech models after getting deferments. Luckily I did most of my service in Texas where free graduate courses for G.I.'s piqued my interest in Management. After the service with MBA in Management in hand I said screw private industry. They have to work 60 hours a week there so I went into education where my degree was useless. That said, I can still put together a better organization chart than both Mullin and Joseph E. Oliva, Esq.;)
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=294069]The only person who has to account for the duties of Mitch Richmond is Chris Mullin . .. While many , most perhaps , of the Posters here disparage Richmond for not jumping on the Recruiting Trail , it is quite possible , likely , that Mullin has not delegated any of those duties to Mitch . As a HOF player , and many here on this site never saw him play , he was a All Star player at Kansas State and in the NBA. I would say Mullin wanted Mitch on his Staff for Player Development as a primary responsibility , not Recruiting . But, it’s easy for armchair QB’s, to decide they are the evaluators of Richmond’s role . Not Mullin . In Business , the Manager evaluates the Employees Performance , no one else . In Sports , it works the same way .[/quote]

Agreed, but who manages the job performance of Mullin?
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=294124][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=294069]The only person who has to account for the duties of Mitch Richmond is Chris Mullin . .. While many , most perhaps , of the Posters here disparage Richmond for not jumping on the Recruiting Trail , it is quite possible , likely , that Mullin has not delegated any of those duties to Mitch . As a HOF player , and many here on this site never saw him play , he was a All Star player at Kansas State and in the NBA. I would say Mullin wanted Mitch on his Staff for Player Development as a primary responsibility , not Recruiting . But, it’s easy for armchair QB’s, to decide they are the evaluators of Richmond’s role . Not Mullin . In Business , the Manager evaluates the Employees Performance , no one else . In Sports , it works the same way .[/quote]

Agreed, but who manages the job performance of Mullin?[/quote]

Apparently just the posters from redmen.com.
 
Ray Morgan wrote: Agreed, but who manages the job performance of Mullin?


Apparently just the posters from redmen.com.

This was priceless!!
 
What exactly has MR done in the player development area? For that matter, what has the entire staff done in the player development area? One of the reasons so many players leave is lack of development!
 
[quote="ron" post=294134]What exactly has MR done in the player development area? For that matter, what has the entire staff done in the player development area? One of the reasons so many players leave is lack of development![/quote]

Judging a staff's contribution to player development is a tricky thing. Simon and Clark both posted much better numbers here than at their prior schools. Was that a by-product of player development in their sit-out year, hard work by the players, increased floor time, or a combination of all of those factors? I don't know what goes on in practice or one on one time with coaches, but do know that the light switch never goes on for some players, while others, through hard work or circumstance, improve greatly. The most college ready player of the large group in Norm Roberts' first recruiting class was Justin Burrell. He really didn't build on the potential he showed as a freshman. Yet D.J. and Paris Horne made great strides. Same staff, different results.
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=294069]The only person who has to account for the duties of Mitch Richmond is Chris Mullin . .. While many , most perhaps , of the Posters here disparage Richmond for not jumping on the Recruiting Trail , it is quite possible , likely , that Mullin has not delegated any of those duties to Mitch . As a HOF player , and many here on this site never saw him play , he was a All Star player at Kansas State and in the NBA. I would say Mullin wanted Mitch on his Staff for Player Development as a primary responsibility , not Recruiting . But, it’s easy for armchair QB’s, to decide they are the evaluators of Richmond’s role . Not Mullin . In Business , the Manager evaluates the Employees Performance , no one else . In Sports , it works the same way .[/quote]

Very simply can you name another major successful program that has this type of assistant?

More importantly can you name another top program that has one of its top assistants sit out both the April and July live periods?

And if you can't I assume you believe SJU will be the exception to the rule.

Mike Krzyzewski runs the modern day Wooden UCLA and is a household name. Yet him and his assistants were at every major event in April and July. 72 years old. Think about that. Told the program runs on its own but obviously it takes hard work.

Jeff Capel took over a 0-18 mess at Pitt. Danny Hurley took over a declining UCONN program. Want to bet neither of them nor their staff missed an event in April and July. That's usually the way it works. You don't handicap yourself when you are trying to rebuild and even when you are big time you STILL don't handicap yourself with mediocre staff members and missed recruiting opportunities.

I can assure you Capel at Pitt and Hurley at UCONN will not be OUTWORKED by anyone.

It's not that you are pro-Mullin, that is too easy. It is that even in the face of facts you feel the need to always give the benefit of the doubt.
 
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[quote="fordham96" post=294153][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=294069]The only person who has to account for the duties of Mitch Richmond is Chris Mullin . .. While many , most perhaps , of the Posters here disparage Richmond for not jumping on the Recruiting Trail , it is quite possible , likely , that Mullin has not delegated any of those duties to Mitch . As a HOF player , and many here on this site never saw him play , he was a All Star player at Kansas State and in the NBA. I would say Mullin wanted Mitch on his Staff for Player Development as a primary responsibility , not Recruiting . But, it’s easy for armchair QB’s, to decide they are the evaluators of Richmond’s role . Not Mullin . In Business , the Manager evaluates the Employees Performance , no one else . In Sports , it works the same way .[/quote]

Very simply can you name another major successful program that has this type of assistant?

More importantly can you name another top program that has one of its too assistants sit out both the April and July live periods?

And if you can't I assume you believe SJU will be the exception to the rule.

Mike Krzyzewski runs the modern day Wooden UCLA and is a household name. Yet him and his assistants were at every major event in April and July. 72 years old. Think about that. Told the program runs on its own but obviously it takes hard work.

Jeff Capel took over a 0-18 mess at Pitt. Danny Hurley took over a declining UCONN program. Want to bet neither of them nor their staff missed an event in April and July. That's usually the way it works. You don't handicap yourself when you are trying to rebuild and even when you are big time you STILL don't handicap yourself with mediocre staff members and missed recruiting opportunities.

I can assure you Capel at Pitt and Hurley at UCONN will not be OUTWORKED by anyone.

It's not that you are pro-Mullin, that is too easy. It is that even in the face of facts you feel the need to always give the benefit of the doubt.[/quote]

A Hall Of Fame post, fordham96.
I luv Mullin and will root like crazy for the team next season.
It is not disloyal to state facts clearly and calmly, and, trust me, I get it when ‘the heat’ rises.
Good management is pro active, fully engaged in all aspects of the game, and plans multiple scenarios—if this / that.
My frustration is that—while loyal to Mullin—I simply do not understand the staff’s ad hoc approach to recruiting.
How in heaven, he could continue to allow Mitch to be a part-time AC, with little or zero recruiting responsibilities stuns me.
Recruiting for us, begins and ends with Matt A.
He’s great with transfers but it seems like he’s not as adept with HS recruits.
That’s not his fault, because we should have 1 more full-time recruiter with solid HS and AAU links throughout the region.
We don’t.
That’s on Mullin.
We’re desperate for a bang-up season that also must also net solid 4* recruits.
That is a bad plan.
I hope it succeeds, but it’s a bad plan.
 
[quote="redmanwest" post=294158]Definitely "endlessly repetitive". ;) ;) ;)[/quote]

Similar to our endlessly repetitive sub-500 records under CM, who refused to make any changes to his staff. Oh well.

Hope he and importantly, the players get it done this year. Season can't start soon enough.
 
[quote="Chris7" post=294159][quote="redmanwest" post=294158]Definitely "endlessly repetitive". ;) ;) ;)[/quote]

Similar to our endlessly repetitive sub-500 records under CM, who refused to make any changes to his staff. Oh well.

Hope he and importantly, the players get it done this year. Season can't start soon enough.[/quote]

Oh so if we win 20 and make tourney next year we wont need Mike Rice and all of the complaining will stop? ;)
 
[quote="redmanwest" post=294158]Definitely "endlessly repetitive". ;) ;) ;)[/quote]

The ‘endlessly repetitive chatter’ thread now over 100 pages, began with the need to get Mike Rice and/ or a full-time AC. None of could help that Mike was the only ‘candidate’—if he was truly that.
This is a new volume facing the potential consequences of having a coaching staff not in sync with the demands of high-major college basketball competition.
We are the only, say top 100 program without two full-time AC coaches and recruiters.
We’re dependent 100% on having a nearly invincible season to be able to have a chance to get, say, 2-3 top 100 2019 recruits.
We may do that, because of our very talented roster (with Heron), but whether we do or do not—it’s a foolish and reckless and bad ‘strategy’.
Seems to me, that theme may deserve another 100 pages!
And it is not about being pro-Mullin, or anti-Mullin.
It’s anout the need to have a fully-functioning and fully-engaged coaching staff to be able to have a decent shot to compete with other BEC and high-major programs, consistently, year-in and year-out.
I fear we are not yet set up or prepared for that struggle.
 
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