a lot of endlessly repetitive chatter

[quote="Chicago Days" post=293463][quote="Beast of the East" post=293462][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=293438][quote="we are sju" post=293407][quote="Delaware" post=293406][quote="jcoggs" post=293390]Let's root hard and often.[/quote]

This Coaching staff is hard to root for........[/quote]

Yeah imagine if the Yankees had hired Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle to manage them. How could Yankee fans have possibly rooted for them?

Or how about if Tom Seaver or Mike Piazza were managing the Mets? How could Met fans possibly root for them?

And just imagine the fan hatred if Bernard King, Patrick Ewing or Walt Frazier had coached the Knicks.

How long before Ranger fans ran Messier out of town?

This is a stupid fan base![/quote]
GSJ is a youngster. They are learning on the job. I dont think this fan base is that stupid.[/quote]

https://redstormsports.com/news/201...ed_2017_18_NABC_30_under_30_Honoree.aspx?path=mbball

Greg St. Jean isn't just a kid who wants to coach. He's a former college player who grew up in basketball, has already has 2 years of NBA experience as a player development coach, and in 3 seasons, has shown himself to have a strong sidelines presence.

He hasn't "taken over" the team as some suggest, but Greg has said he is in perfect lockstep with Mullin on strategy and assignments, and also speaks to Mullin late into the nights just talking basketball and strategy.

He is just one of 15 D1 coaches to receive the honor bestowed upon him and only 1 of 2 in the Big East. His star is bright, and if you think that he couldn't find a mid major willing to take a shot on him right now, I believe you are mistaken.

I don't know what his role would have been if Rice came on board, but I'm afraid if Rice came, Greg would exit, then once restored, Rice would exit also.

No I don't think you are that stupid, but it's flat out dumb to call a 28 year old entering his 6th year of coaching just a kid.[/quote]

Why would GSJ leave if we were a fully-manned Staff, with 2 AC’s fully committed to the program and with primary recruiting functions?
We’re undermanned with Mitch in key functions, recruiting and commitment to the program and, hence, at a functional disadvantage versus other high major and BEC teams.
Rice is not the issue.
Our undermanned Staff is.
Looking forward to next season and with dread beyond that.[/quote]

Well the way I see it, Rice is a former head coach who wouldn't just come here to recruit. He'd have to have a role on the sidelines. Very few teams as I see it have more than a HC and chief assistant who do the bulk of in game coaching. Practice is of course another story, especially if you do stations, etc. I would think if Rice came here, he would want more of an associate HC position, and we know how that worked the last time. I don't know any particulars, but it isn't crazy to presume that Rice just see enough of a role for himself or wanted a bigger role on the sidelines than Mullin thought he needed - that's all just speculation on my part. But I am pretty sure he didn't jsut come here to recruit, and as a HC at rutgers, there is usually staff out there beating the bushes, not the HC.
 
Chicago Days wrote: Why would GSJ leave if we were a fully-manned Staff, with 2 AC’s fully committed to the program and with primary recruiting functions?
We’re undermanned with Mitch in key functions, recruiting and commitment to the program and, hence, at a functional disadvantage versus other high major and BEC teams.
Rice is not the issue.
Our undermanned Staff is.
Looking forward to next season and with dread beyond that


Chicago, I am right with you looking forward to the season; too early to be pessimistic (or optimistic) about 2019-2020 imho as so much can happen between now and then (good and bad). As you often say, time will tell.
 
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[quote="fordham96" post=293418][quote="otis" post=293410][quote="fordham96" post=293399]
.......... there are no commitments for 2019 .....[/quote]
—————-
Apparently you missed the news regarding the transfer in to St. John’s by Eli Wright (high school ranked 65th by ESPN, 80th by 247 Sports and 92 by Rivals) and David Caraher who averaged 19 ppg at low major D1 as a Frosh.[/quote]

Apparently you don't understand how normal people operate. He is currently on the roster for 2018 and under scholarship and enrolled and practicing plus he is a transfer, none of which qualifies as a 2019 recruit.

Are you now saying that kids who qualify, practice, enroll and are on scholarship but decide to redshirt a year NOW count towards the following year's recruiting class? Uh no that is not how it works.

But I'm sure you will tell us 6 months from now that you knew this all along much like you enlightened us with the Mike Rice news.[/quote]

Haha! I hear 'ya, fordham.

This is why I rail some folks on this board with their exaggerated, fabricated, hypocritical, contradictory and fallacious tales. Then, when they're called out on it.... They either feign victim, deflect or double-down on the BS.

Besides, why are we still mentioning Lavin when it's been 3 1/2 seasons removed? If Mullin's first 3 years of coaching was similar to Lavin's first 3 years coaching at UCLA and St. John's, respectively, then some folks would wet their pants in excitement. His record is closer to Norm Roberts' after 3 seasons than anything else.

This season should be a good ride (as, many of the concerned posters have said on more than one occasion), but it's the future and leadership (more like lack of) that has some folks up in arms.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=293466][quote="fordham96" post=293418][quote="otis" post=293410][quote="fordham96" post=293399]
.......... there are no commitments for 2019 .....[/quote]
—————-
Apparently you missed the news regarding the transfer in to St. John’s by Eli Wright (high school ranked 65th by ESPN, 80th by 247 Sports and 92 by Rivals) and David Caraher who averaged 19 ppg at low major D1 as a Frosh.[/quote]

Apparently you don't understand how normal people operate. He is currently on the roster for 2018 and under scholarship and enrolled and practicing plus he is a transfer, none of which qualifies as a 2019 recruit.

Are you now saying that kids who qualify, practice, enroll and are on scholarship but decide to redshirt a year NOW count towards the following year's recruiting class? Uh no that is not how it works.

But I'm sure you will tell us 6 months from now that you knew this all along much like you enlightened us with the Mike Rice news.[/quote]

Haha! I hear 'ya, fordham.

This is why I rail some folks on this board with their exaggerated, fabricated, hypocritical, contradictory and fallacious tales. Then, when they're called out on it.... They either feign victim, deflect or double-down on the BS.

Besides, why are we still mentioning Lavin when it's been 3 1/2 seasons removed? If Mullin's first 3 years of coaching was similar to Lavin's first 3 years coaching at UCLA and St. John's, respectively, then some folks would wet their pants in excitement. His record is closer to Norm Roberts' after 3 seasons than anything else.

This season should be a good ride (as, many of the concerned posters have said on more than one occasion), but it's the future and leadership (more like lack of) that has some folks up in arms.[/quote]

Norm left Lavin with an underperforming senior team that Lavin was able to do something with - all to Lavin's credit, since I don't believe Norm would have come close to that season or even played the right guys in marquee roles (Brownlee and Hardy). I agree with you that he did reasonably well here, and although we had thin rosters, he brought in some talent.

Lavin had in year 2 what Mullin had in year 1 - a thin roster without too much talent, except that Lavin had a whole season to recruit that team and came up with some winners.

Lavin left Mullin with much much less. I disagree that Lavin screwed the program, because he had an ability to pull rabbits out of hats, and perhaps Obekpa comes back if Lavin was coach (although Jordan decided not to come long before Lavin was fired)

Agree to end the Lavin debates. Reminder that in a survey here, something like 85% wanted him back. He just never seemed dissatisfied with the results he brought.
 
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I will support Chris Mullin for as long as he is coach. He will succeed this year and for many years to come. Book it!
 
[quote="AlBovino" post=293468]I will support Chris Mullin for as long as he is coach. He will succeed this year and for many years to come. Book it![/quote]

Tell your cousin, we're all rooting for him. We'd hate to see you leave the board, if it doesn't work out. You add so much to the forum.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=293469][quote="AlBovino" post=293468]I will support Chris Mullin for as long as he is coach. He will succeed this year and for many years to come. Book it![/quote]

Tell your cousin, we're all rooting for him. We'd hate to see you leave the board, if it doesn't work out. You add so much to the forum.[/quote]

Damnit Dink. I thought Chris was your cousin :)
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293419][quote="Beast of the East" post=293409][quote="Delaware" post=293408]Its about this year, next year, the following year, etc., etc.

Problem is, no one has any confidence that this staff has any plan beyond the current year at any given time, as evidenced by the spring-time commitments, and transfers, etc.[/quote]

Here's the problem I have with this sentiment. There's a lot to say but I will try to be brief:

1) After the miserable start Mullin was handed, the roster is pretty damned impressive for his 4th season. Last season could have resulted in a bid if our second best player wasn't a quitter. Even Owens and his nutty dad thought he was way better than he is.

2) All of a sudden you guys are acknowledging that this season could be special but what about next year and the year after. It's a load of crap. Villanova lost 4 key players to the NBA, and their outlook for this season isn't great. They recruit at a different plane based on their success, but their fans know there is plenty of time to make 2019-2020 a formidable roster. It will be for us also.

3) Mullin in California or wherever he is. FIrst, off the campus is pretty dead in the summer. Second of all, there are so many remote workers without affecting their productivity. I'd bet anything that GSJ and MA and maybe even MR are in contact with CM many times during a week, and maybe even many times per day. 85% of my company is located outside of our main office, with no loss of productivity of remote workers. I know companies that have CEOs that work out of home offices in a different city than the company is located. It's as easy to send a message to someone in the next cubicle as it is on another continent. There matter isn't where our staff is working from this summer, it's IF they are working. IF they are working I take no issue. Damnit, it's not 1985 - the younger guys who are piping up about this should be ashamed. Older, retired guys may not be aware of the extent telecommuting exists, but it all works quite well at all levels..[/quote]

Couple of issues.

1)I am not suggesting the roster he inherited was HIS fault. But it is really not Lavin's fault. Lavin was fired which produced a number of issues with de-commitments. It is likely the roster would have been better if no coaching change had been made. But again that is water under the bridge. In retrospect I don't have a problem with the change. But for the record Lavin left him Brandon Sampson, it is not Lavin's fault that he de-committted after Lavin was fired. Not Mullin's fault either. Lastly I don't consider this roster some sort of incredible roster for a 4th year coach. It's pretty good, but it should have been better and more importantly it could have been better much earlier. That is entirely due to Coach. Way too much credit being given for a 4th year coach's roster, sorry I am not impressed.

2)Villanova's outlook this year is consensus top 10, clear favorite in the BE and on the short list of a load of top 25 recruits. Not sure what you mean. Go check it, Nova will be very good to great again. This after a 5 year run where tehy have been regular season champs 4 times, Tourney champs 3 times and a 1 seed or 2 seed in the NCAA's all 5 years. Not to mention 2 NC's.

3)Plenty happens in August. Schools are hosting visitors all month as the Dead Period in recruiting is lifted for the Quiet Period. No off campus recruiting but on campus visits happening. Both unofficial and official visits.[/quote]

So Nova is the yardstick? Fair enough, but be honest, where was Nova in Wright's 3rd year? Exactly where we are, "fans" screaming for his head, underachieving, etc. So it is fair to compare Wright's 5 year run in years 12-16 to Mullins essentially first two years? I won't even comment on the revisionist history of Lavin's departure. Again, Mullin may fail but he hasn't yet, plain and simple, whether you or anyone else approves of his methods.
 
[quote="AlBovino" post=293468]I will support Chris Mullin for as long as he is coach. He will succeed this year and for many years to come. Book it![/quote]

I'm sure Chris wakes up every morning very happy for your support.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=293470][quote="MJDinkins" post=293469][quote="AlBovino" post=293468]I will support Chris Mullin for as long as he is coach. He will succeed this year and for many years to come. Book it![/quote]

Tell your cousin, we're all rooting for him. We'd hate to see you leave the board, if it doesn't work out. You add so much to the forum.[/quote]

Damnit Dink. I thought Chris was your cousin :)[/quote]

:lol:
 
[quote="Logen" post=293471][quote="fordham96" post=293419][quote="Beast of the East" post=293409][quote="Delaware" post=293408]Its about this year, next year, the following year, etc., etc.

Problem is, no one has any confidence that this staff has any plan beyond the current year at any given time, as evidenced by the spring-time commitments, and transfers, etc.[/quote]

Here's the problem I have with this sentiment. There's a lot to say but I will try to be brief:

1) After the miserable start Mullin was handed, the roster is pretty damned impressive for his 4th season. Last season could have resulted in a bid if our second best player wasn't a quitter. Even Owens and his nutty dad thought he was way better than he is.

2) All of a sudden you guys are acknowledging that this season could be special but what about next year and the year after. It's a load of crap. Villanova lost 4 key players to the NBA, and their outlook for this season isn't great. They recruit at a different plane based on their success, but their fans know there is plenty of time to make 2019-2020 a formidable roster. It will be for us also.

3) Mullin in California or wherever he is. FIrst, off the campus is pretty dead in the summer. Second of all, there are so many remote workers without affecting their productivity. I'd bet anything that GSJ and MA and maybe even MR are in contact with CM many times during a week, and maybe even many times per day. 85% of my company is located outside of our main office, with no loss of productivity of remote workers. I know companies that have CEOs that work out of home offices in a different city than the company is located. It's as easy to send a message to someone in the next cubicle as it is on another continent. There matter isn't where our staff is working from this summer, it's IF they are working. IF they are working I take no issue. Damnit, it's not 1985 - the younger guys who are piping up about this should be ashamed. Older, retired guys may not be aware of the extent telecommuting exists, but it all works quite well at all levels..[/quote]

Couple of issues.

1)I am not suggesting the roster he inherited was HIS fault. But it is really not Lavin's fault. Lavin was fired which produced a number of issues with de-commitments. It is likely the roster would have been better if no coaching change had been made. But again that is water under the bridge. In retrospect I don't have a problem with the change. But for the record Lavin left him Brandon Sampson, it is not Lavin's fault that he de-committted after Lavin was fired. Not Mullin's fault either. Lastly I don't consider this roster some sort of incredible roster for a 4th year coach. It's pretty good, but it should have been better and more importantly it could have been better much earlier. That is entirely due to Coach. Way too much credit being given for a 4th year coach's roster, sorry I am not impressed.

2)Villanova's outlook this year is consensus top 10, clear favorite in the BE and on the short list of a load of top 25 recruits. Not sure what you mean. Go check it, Nova will be very good to great again. This after a 5 year run where tehy have been regular season champs 4 times, Tourney champs 3 times and a 1 seed or 2 seed in the NCAA's all 5 years. Not to mention 2 NC's.

3)Plenty happens in August. Schools are hosting visitors all month as the Dead Period in recruiting is lifted for the Quiet Period. No off campus recruiting but on campus visits happening. Both unofficial and official visits.[/quote]

So Nova is the yardstick? Fair enough, but be honest, where was Nova in Wright's 3rd year? Exactly where we are, "fans" screaming for his head, underachieving, etc. So it is fair to compare Wright's 5 year run in years 12-16 to Mullins essentially first two years? I won't even comment on the revisionist history of Lavin's departure. Again, Mullin may fail but he hasn't yet, plain and simple, whether you or anyone else approves of his methods.[/quote]

Logen, it unfair to compare Chris to Wright for many reasons but Jay was only 39 when he took over Nova with many many years ahead of him. Jay and Chris are only one year apart yet Jay has been at Villanova over 17 years. I think we will be happy if Chris makes it through his current contract and he and his staff and family lay down roots in New York as Jay did on the Main Line.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293472][quote="AlBovino" post=293468]I will support Chris Mullin for as long as he is coach. He will succeed this year and for many years to come. Book it![/quote]

I'm sure Chris wakes up every morning very happy for your support.[/quote]

Mully has a lot more on his mind right now than Al or the program. This year he needs all the support he can get. Hoping and praying it all works out for him.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=293476][quote="fordham96" post=293472][quote="AlBovino" post=293468]I will support Chris Mullin for as long as he is coach. He will succeed this year and for many years to come. Book it![/quote]

I'm sure Chris wakes up every morning very happy for your support.[/quote]

Mully has a lot more on his mind right now than Al or the program. This year he needs all the support he can get. Hoping and praying it all works out for him.[/quote]

Have I been napping for 30 years or did people always call Mullin "Mully"? The only person I ever heard call him that was maybe Bill Raftery, who may have also called him Chrissy. Looie would call him Mo, but I don't remember anything else.
 
I don't understand why people who do not like this thread continue to read it and complain about it! If you find it so objectionable, simply skip it.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=293476][quote="fordham96" post=293472][quote="AlBovino" post=293468]I will support Chris Mullin for as long as he is coach. He will succeed this year and for many years to come. Book it![/quote]

I'm sure Chris wakes up every morning very happy for your support.[/quote]

Mully has a lot more on his mind right now than Al or the program. This year he needs all the support he can get. Hoping and praying it all works out for him.[/quote]I have no idea what problems Mullin has. But if he has them, then it is even more important to hire an experienced AC to help him. That said, I also hope it works out for him.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293419][quote="Beast of the East" post=293409][quote="Delaware" post=293408]Its about this year, next year, the following year, etc., etc.

Problem is, no one has any confidence that this staff has any plan beyond the current year at any given time, as evidenced by the spring-time commitments, and transfers, etc.[/quote]

Here's the problem I have with this sentiment. There's a lot to say but I will try to be brief:

1) After the miserable start Mullin was handed, the roster is pretty damned impressive for his 4th season. Last season could have resulted in a bid if our second best player wasn't a quitter. Even Owens and his nutty dad thought he was way better than he is.

2) All of a sudden you guys are acknowledging that this season could be special but what about next year and the year after. It's a load of crap. Villanova lost 4 key players to the NBA, and their outlook for this season isn't great. They recruit at a different plane based on their success, but their fans know there is plenty of time to make 2019-2020 a formidable roster. It will be for us also.

3) Mullin in California or wherever he is. FIrst, off the campus is pretty dead in the summer. Second of all, there are so many remote workers without affecting their productivity. I'd bet anything that GSJ and MA and maybe even MR are in contact with CM many times during a week, and maybe even many times per day. 85% of my company is located outside of our main office, with no loss of productivity of remote workers. I know companies that have CEOs that work out of home offices in a different city than the company is located. It's as easy to send a message to someone in the next cubicle as it is on another continent. There matter isn't where our staff is working from this summer, it's IF they are working. IF they are working I take no issue. Damnit, it's not 1985 - the younger guys who are piping up about this should be ashamed. Older, retired guys may not be aware of the extent telecommuting exists, but it all works quite well at all levels..[/quote]

Couple of issues.

1)I am not suggesting the roster he inherited was HIS fault. But it is really not Lavin's fault. Lavin was fired which produced a number of issues with de-commitments. It is likely the roster would have been better if no coaching change had been made. But again that is water under the bridge. In retrospect I don't have a problem with the change. But for the record Lavin left him Brandon Sampson, it is not Lavin's fault that he de-committted after Lavin was fired. Not Mullin's fault either. Lastly I don't consider this roster some sort of incredible roster for a 4th year coach. It's pretty good, but it should have been better and more importantly it could have been better much earlier. That is entirely due to Coach. Way too much credit being given for a 4th year coach's roster, sorry I am not impressed.

2)Villanova's outlook this year is consensus top 10, clear favorite in the BE and on the short list of a load of top 25 recruits. Not sure what you mean. Go check it, Nova will be very good to great again. This after a 5 year run where tehy have been regular season champs 4 times, Tourney champs 3 times and a 1 seed or 2 seed in the NCAA's all 5 years. Not to mention 2 NC's.

3)Plenty happens in August. Schools are hosting visitors all month as the Dead Period in recruiting is lifted for the Quiet Period. No off campus recruiting but on campus visits happening. Both unofficial and official visits.[/quote]

I don't understand how it's fair to expect that the roster could have been and should have been better this year. In my opinion, it's a miracle we have what amounts to one of the most talented teams we've had in the past two decades, especially coming off of 3 losing seasons.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293435][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Oh please, what would I do? That is your best response.

I just want to be clear when things don't work out we don't blame the HC anymore or is that excuse for other HC's not for this one.

I would work much harder and re-work my staff if your asking especially in light of the lack of success in the first 3 years.[/quote]

I'd actually like to know which highly rated high school recruits we were in play for would have come here over the past 3 years had the staff worked harder. Care to name who you are thinking of?
 
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=293480][quote="Class of 72" post=293476][quote="fordham96" post=293472][quote="AlBovino" post=293468]I will support Chris Mullin for as long as he is coach. He will succeed this year and for many years to come. Book it![/quote]

I'm sure Chris wakes up every morning very happy for your support.[/quote]

Mully has a lot more on his mind right now than Al or the program. This year he needs all the support he can get. Hoping and praying it all works out for him.[/quote]I have no idea what problems Mullin has.[/quote] Neither do I and unless it's something that is basketball related it's not my business or any of ours on the board ( not accusing you Richard ).

It wasn't right when people speculated about Lavin off the court and it's not right with Mullin either
 
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[quote="fordham96" post=293448][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293447][quote="fordham96" post=293440][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293436][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

But for some reason people think Rice could sell what Slice, who was considered one of the country's top recruiters, couldn't.[/quote]

Another straw man argument.

Mitch Richmond is currently a lead assistant. He does nothing in the way of recruiting. Literally NOTHING.

That has little to do with simply replacing Slice, a competent recruiter would help. You are replacing Mitch Richmond NOT Barry Rohrssen.[/quote]

Right now, we are still supposed to be in the running for Cockburn, Gaffney, Achiuwa, and some other 4 and 5 star recruits. The others on the short list are all bluebloods. If you think a competent recruiter is what will put us over the top, then you and I disagree. I will agree that if Mitch is not doing the things that other assistants do at the programs we are really competing with for recruits, then changes should be made.[/quote]

We are not really in the running. We are fading on most of those kids. That is fact.

Gaffney is a little different, but he is also NOT a top 30 kid.

And you have no idea what would work. You are guessing so you don't have to admit serious mistakes have been made.[/quote]

We are fading on these kids, yet we've been on them forever, and most praised the work the staff did over the Summer being at all of the events to see them. Weren't they everywhere? Could it be perhaps there are other factors involved which prevent us from being a top destination for these kids?
 
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