a lot of endlessly repetitive chatter

[quote="otis" post=293410][quote="fordham96" post=293399]
.......... there are no commitments for 2019 .....[/quote]
—————-
Apparently you missed the news regarding the transfer in to St. John’s by Eli Wright (high school ranked 65th by ESPN, 80th by 247 Sports and 92 by Rivals) and David Caraher who averaged 19 ppg at low major D1 as a Frosh.[/quote]

Apparently you missed that Wright has averaged 3.5 and 3 ppg in his college career. I trust Matt's eye, but Wright needs to actually do something for us in 2019-20. And Caraher averaged 16.2, not 19. It's going to be a tough transition for him from Houston Baptist to the Big East.
 
For a wide variety of reasons, recruiting high school players is a lot more challenging now than in Looie's days here. Looie had an AAU pipeline, a successful program, less competition, and, above all else, a major recruiting edge with the stipend. All of those advantages are gone. I don't know what will make this a destination for 4 and 5 star recruits. In truth, Looie had very few loaded classes. With access only to NYC area players, he did well to keep one from leaving the area every other year. You want a coveted recruit to stay, you need an edge. Where is our edge? Meanwhile, the transfer and JC route is getting us really nice talent that isn't available to us the first go round.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=293424][quote="otis" post=293410][quote="fordham96" post=293399]
.......... there are no commitments for 2019 .....[/quote]
—————-
Apparently you missed the news regarding the transfer in to St. John’s by Eli Wright (high school ranked 65th by ESPN, 80th by 247 Sports and 92 by Rivals) and David Caraher who averaged 19 ppg at low major D1 as a Frosh.[/quote]

Apparently you missed that Wright has averaged 3.5 and 3 ppg in his college career. I trust Matt's eye, but Wright needs to actually do something for us in 2019-20. And Caraher averaged 16.2, not 19. It's going to be a tough transition for him from Houston Baptist to the Big East.[/quote]

It is always fascinating that posters try to apply the player's HS ranking after he has already been in college for 2 years as if that applies while ignoring his actual playing numbers in college. And then when it doesn't apply (say Caraher) ignore the HS ranking and just quote his numbers. Anything to change the argument.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=293424][quote="otis" post=293410][quote="fordham96" post=293399]
.......... there are no commitments for 2019 .....[/quote]
—————-
Apparently you missed the news regarding the transfer in to St. John’s by Eli Wright (high school ranked 65th by ESPN, 80th by 247 Sports and 92 by Rivals) and David Caraher who averaged 19 ppg at low major D1 as a Frosh.[/quote]

Apparently you missed that Wright has averaged 3.5 and 3 ppg in his college career. I trust Matt's eye, but Wright needs to actually do something for us in 2019-20. And Caraher averaged 16.2, not 19. It's going to be a tough transition for him from Houston Baptist to the Big East.[/quote]

Justin Simon averaged 2 points and 1 rebound at Arizona and 12 pts and 7 rebounds at SJ.

Marvin Clark averaged 4 points and 2 rebounds at MSU and 12 points and 5 rebounds at SJ.

Thank goodness Coach Matt was able to see their potential and Coach Mulls was able to get out them what those hacks Izzo and Miller couldn't.
 
[quote="fun" post=293427][quote="L J S A" post=293424][quote="otis" post=293410][quote="fordham96" post=293399]
.......... there are no commitments for 2019 .....[/quote]
—————-
Apparently you missed the news regarding the transfer in to St. John’s by Eli Wright (high school ranked 65th by ESPN, 80th by 247 Sports and 92 by Rivals) and David Caraher who averaged 19 ppg at low major D1 as a Frosh.[/quote]

Apparently you missed that Wright has averaged 3.5 and 3 ppg in his college career. I trust Matt's eye, but Wright needs to actually do something for us in 2019-20. And Caraher averaged 16.2, not 19. It's going to be a tough transition for him from Houston Baptist to the Big East.[/quote]

Justin Simon averaged 2 points and 1 rebound at Arizona and 12 pts and 7 rebounds at SJ.

Marvin Clark averaged 4 points and 2 rebounds at MSU and 12 points and 5 rebounds at SJ.

Thank goodness Coach Matt was able to see their potential and Coach Mulls was able to get out them what those hacks Izzo and Miller couldn't.[/quote]


My larger point is if you are going to judge TRANSFERS on the basis of what they were in High School then do that consistently don't switch standards because it does not suit your argument.

Simon was a stud coming out of HS who was squeezed out by a ridiculously talented backcourt at Arizona. Eli Wright is not even close to the same situation.

And yes the productivity has been pretty good. But be clear not one SJU transfer has made a post-season 1st or 2nd team All-BE team and in fact the only player to make such a team was the highest rated HS recruit so far, Shamorie Ponds.

And none of these transfers has yet to play in a meaningful post-season game.
 
Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.
 
I get the whole "Matt is the only guy recruiting thing". And I get that when things go poorly the head coach gets blamed unless you are Norm Roberts and you get a 4 year pass. But now people are questioning the transfer reliant strategy when that is what Matt is known for. So you guys love Matt but don't love what he does?
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever convinced stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.
 
Last edited:
[quote="Beast of the East" post=293423][quote="fordham96" post=293422][quote="Beast of the East" post=293420][quote="Paultzman" post=293416]Matt has done well with transfers pretty much on his own. I don’t think bringing in transfers is a philosophy. Rather, it a plan B reaction to reality of where they stand with recruits. The program has been abysmal for a while & is not a destination for most solid kids. 2018 recruiting was less than stellar and 2019 looks challenging. Sooner or later they have to stop relying so much on transfers. In the short term it has helped, but imo it seems risky to perpetuate a wholesale approach.

I do believe Mullin has a strong roster this year and will have opportunity to prove himself. Looking forward to it.[/quote]

I think for St. John's transfers were always at the core of our success in our heyday. Walter Berry and Mike Moses were transfer starters on our final four team. Reggie Carter, Bernard Rencher on those teams.. Searcy and others in that era. Bootsy, Grant, others on that team. Hardy, Brownlee, etc.

Transfers are at the core of our historical success. No reason it can't be again.[/quote]

You are cherry picking and leaving a false impression based on that cherry picking. Not to mention you leave out a lot of Looie's later teams, Malik Sealy eg, and the late 90's 2000 team that were NOT dominated by transfers

Furthermore you are mixing in JUCO transfers, not the same thing.[/quote]

How do you cherry pick a transfer. We have a long list of transfers that were either our first or second best player, or played important roles. We didn't have a just a handful - we've had a ton of them. The list just goes on and on.[/quote]

Cherry Picking examples over 50 years as if this current roster is made up the same way as those previous one's.
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293428][quote="fun" post=293427][quote="L J S A" post=293424][quote="otis" post=293410][quote="fordham96" post=293399]
.......... there are no commitments for 2019 .....[/quote]
—————-
Apparently you missed the news regarding the transfer in to St. John’s by Eli Wright (high school ranked 65th by ESPN, 80th by 247 Sports and 92 by Rivals) and David Caraher who averaged 19 ppg at low major D1 as a Frosh.[/quote]

Apparently you missed that Wright has averaged 3.5 and 3 ppg in his college career. I trust Matt's eye, but Wright needs to actually do something for us in 2019-20. And Caraher averaged 16.2, not 19. It's going to be a tough transition for him from Houston Baptist to the Big East.[/quote]

Justin Simon averaged 2 points and 1 rebound at Arizona and 12 pts and 7 rebounds at SJ.

Marvin Clark averaged 4 points and 2 rebounds at MSU and 12 points and 5 rebounds at SJ.

Thank goodness Coach Matt was able to see their potential and Coach Mulls was able to get out them what those hacks Izzo and Miller couldn't.[/quote]


My larger point is if you are going to judge TRANSFERS on the basis of what they were in High School then do that consistently don't switch standards because it does not suit your argument.

Simon was a stud coming out of HS who was squeezed out by a ridiculously talented backcourt at Arizona. Eli Wright is not even close to the same situation.

And yes the productivity has been pretty good. But be clear not one SJU transfer has made a post-season 1st or 2nd team All-BE team and in fact the only player to make such a team was the highest rated HS recruit so far, Shamorie Ponds.

And none of these transfers has yet to play in a meaningful post-season game.[/quote]

You make some good points and I'd be happy to debate them with you but my original post - which you quoted - seems to have been deleted, no doubt because it violated the TOS by citing basketball statistics, which I know are frowned upon here. So you win.
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Oh please, what would I do? That is your best response.

I just want to be clear when things don't work out we don't blame the HC anymore or is that excuse for other HC's not for this one.

I would work much harder and re-work my staff if your asking especially in light of the lack of success in the first 3 years.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

But for some reason people think Rice could sell what Slice, who was considered one of the country's top recruiters, couldn't.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

Right that is why he was recognized at Pitt because he offering Kentucky when he was at Pitt.

But regardless of whether he was a good hire or not that is entirely on Mullin. Furthermore his replacement is on Mullin so not sure what the point is other than Mullin made both choices.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=293407][quote="Delaware" post=293406][quote="jcoggs" post=293390]Let's root hard and often.[/quote]

This Coaching staff is hard to root for........[/quote]

Yeah imagine if the Yankees had hired Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle to manage them. How could Yankee fans have possibly rooted for them?

Or how about if Tom Seaver or Mike Piazza were managing the Mets? How could Met fans possibly root for them?

And just imagine the fan hatred if Bernard King, Patrick Ewing or Walt Frazier had coached the Knicks.

How long before Ranger fans ran Messier out of town?

This is a stupid fan base![/quote] All though we all loved Mullin as a player. Being a HOF player does not mean your going to be a good coach. The verdict is still out on Mullin But to add insult to injury , after the Slice fiasco Mitch was promoted and Slice wasnt replaced w an experienced college coach. GSJ is a youngster. They are learning on the job. I dont think this fan base is that stupid.
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=293436][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

But for some reason people think Rice could sell what Slice, who was considered one of the country's top recruiters, couldn't.[/quote]

I am not one of those people.
My solution would not make many people on here happy. But then again those same people seem to think we should be competing with Duke and Kentucky for recruits
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=293436][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

But for some reason people think Rice could sell what Slice, who was considered one of the country's top recruiters, couldn't.[/quote]

Another straw man argument.

Mitch Richmond is currently a lead assistant. He does nothing in the way of recruiting. Literally NOTHING.

That has little to do with simply replacing Slice, a competent recruiter would help. You are replacing Mitch Richmond NOT Barry Rohrssen.
 
Pseudo Intellectual Psychobabble is a sophomore? I thought he was a grad transfer who had played high school ball in Greece and Ireland.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293437][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

Right that is why he was recognized at Pitt because he offering Kentucky when he was at Pitt.

But regardless of whether he was a good hire or not that is entirely on Mullin. Furthermore his replacement is on Mullin so not sure what the point is other than Mullin made both choices.[/quote]

Don't remember who was having this argument in another form, but at that time, Pitt successful in the Big East was def more desirable than a program that has made the tourney twice in last what 20 years.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293435][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Oh please, what would I do? That is your best response.

I just want to be clear when things don't work out we don't blame the HC anymore or is that excuse for other HC's not for this one.

I would work much harder and re-work my staff if your asking especially in light of the lack of success in the first 3 years.[/quote]

That was meant as a serious question, and you gave a valid response. One thing that should not be excused or defended is getting outworked by other programs. If this is happening here, which few of us would even know, then there are some deep rooted problems here at the top of a program's hierarchy. Since I'm not privy to how hard the staff works, I will wait for the results on the court. Meanwhile, I am waiting for Zach's follow up article to the one where Mullin talked about how Mitch was looking forward to the traditional responsibilities of an assistant coach. Maybe someone can send a link when he publishes that article. Or suggest that he does so.
 
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