a lot of endlessly repetitive chatter

[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=293438][quote="we are sju" post=293407][quote="Delaware" post=293406][quote="jcoggs" post=293390]Let's root hard and often.[/quote]

This Coaching staff is hard to root for........[/quote]

Yeah imagine if the Yankees had hired Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle to manage them. How could Yankee fans have possibly rooted for them?

Or how about if Tom Seaver or Mike Piazza were managing the Mets? How could Met fans possibly root for them?

And just imagine the fan hatred if Bernard King, Patrick Ewing or Walt Frazier had coached the Knicks.

How long before Ranger fans ran Messier out of town?

This is a stupid fan base![/quote] All though we all loved Mullin as a player. Being a HOF player does not mean your going to be a good coach. The verdict is still out on Mullin But to add insult to injury , after the Slice fiasco Mitch was promoted and Slice wasnt replaced w an experienced college coach. GSJ is a youngster. They are learning on the job. I dont think this fan base is that stupid.[/quote]

OP said "was tough to root for this coaching staff."
I disagree. Whether or not he is or will be successful is an entirely different thing.
 
[quote="we are sju" post=293442][quote="fordham96" post=293437][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

Right that is why he was recognized at Pitt because he offering Kentucky when he was at Pitt.

But regardless of whether he was a good hire or not that is entirely on Mullin. Furthermore his replacement is on Mullin so not sure what the point is other than Mullin made both choices.[/quote]

Don't remember who was having this argument in another form, but at that time, Pitt successful in the Big East was def more desirable than a program that has made the tourney twice in last what 20 years.[/quote]

Based on what? Prior to Howland's arrival they did NOTHING.

Furthermore Slice's contributions were enormous. Lastly you are now implying a good assistant has no impact because you are now insisting that the only reasons Slice has success at Pitt because Pitt was more desirable. So it really doesn't matter who SJU hires now at this point. Come one, stop with this stupidity.

Calipari hired Josh Pastner at Memphis and Kenny Payne and Slice at UK. 3 tremendous recruiters. Of course Cal's own reputation helped but if that was the only thing he would hire were no one's who would cost nothing.

Slice's reputation preceded him BEFORE he ever got to UK.

But this is less about Mike Rice specifically or even Slice and about Mitch Richmond. To me Rice became the easiest solution (I am on record as wanting others).
 
Last edited:
Bottom line, those who want everyone to sing kumbaya with awful results and apparently minimal coaching effort (MR) better get used to frustrated fans who are fed up. It will never change unless there is success. This is what happens and it's completely logical. By the way, I doubt it's true about administration and not Mullin not allowing the Rice hire. It's already been established that Mullin is a monarch at our school and could probably give Bobby an atomic wedgie and get away with it. So if it's what Mullin wants, I can't see admin saying no to him.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293440][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293436][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

But for some reason people think Rice could sell what Slice, who was considered one of the country's top recruiters, couldn't.[/quote]

Another straw man argument.

Mitch Richmond is currently a lead assistant. He does nothing in the way of recruiting. Literally NOTHING.

That has little to do with simply replacing Slice, a competent recruiter would help. You are replacing Mitch Richmond NOT Barry Rohrssen.[/quote]

Right now, we are still supposed to be in the running for Cockburn, Gaffney, Achiuwa, and some other 4 and 5 star recruits. The others on the short list are all bluebloods. If you think a competent recruiter is what will put us over the top, then you and I disagree. I will agree that if Mitch is not doing the things that other assistants do at the programs we are really competing with for recruits, then changes should be made.
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=293447][quote="fordham96" post=293440][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293436][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

But for some reason people think Rice could sell what Slice, who was considered one of the country's top recruiters, couldn't.[/quote]

Another straw man argument.

Mitch Richmond is currently a lead assistant. He does nothing in the way of recruiting. Literally NOTHING.

That has little to do with simply replacing Slice, a competent recruiter would help. You are replacing Mitch Richmond NOT Barry Rohrssen.[/quote]

Right now, we are still supposed to be in the running for Cockburn, Gaffney, Achiuwa, and some other 4 and 5 star recruits. The others on the short list are all bluebloods. If you think a competent recruiter is what will put us over the top, then you and I disagree. I will agree that if Mitch is not doing the things that other assistants do at the programs we are really competing with for recruits, then changes should be made.[/quote]

We are not really in the running. We are fading on most of those kids. That is fact.

Gaffney is a little different, but he is also NOT a top 30 kid.

And you have no idea what would work. You are guessing so you don't have to admit serious mistakes have been made.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293448][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293447][quote="fordham96" post=293440][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293436][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

But for some reason people think Rice could sell what Slice, who was considered one of the country's top recruiters, couldn't.[/quote]

Another straw man argument.

Mitch Richmond is currently a lead assistant. He does nothing in the way of recruiting. Literally NOTHING.

That has little to do with simply replacing Slice, a competent recruiter would help. You are replacing Mitch Richmond NOT Barry Rohrssen.[/quote]

Right now, we are still supposed to be in the running for Cockburn, Gaffney, Achiuwa, and some other 4 and 5 star recruits. The others on the short list are all bluebloods. If you think a competent recruiter is what will put us over the top, then you and I disagree. I will agree that if Mitch is not doing the things that other assistants do at the programs we are really competing with for recruits, then changes should be made.[/quote]

We are not really in the running. We are fading on most of those kids. That is fact.

Gaffney is a little different, but he is also NOT a top 30 kid.

And you have no idea what would work. You are guessing so you don't have to admit serious mistakes have been made.[/quote]

I do know what would work. And if you think others don't do it, then you have a different view of how things work than I do. We are not playing on a level playing field. That doesn't mean we should tolerate an assistant coach that allegedly doesn't carry his weight.
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=293449][quote="fordham96" post=293448][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293447][quote="fordham96" post=293440][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293436][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

But for some reason people think Rice could sell what Slice, who was considered one of the country's top recruiters, couldn't.[/quote]

Another straw man argument.

Mitch Richmond is currently a lead assistant. He does nothing in the way of recruiting. Literally NOTHING.

That has little to do with simply replacing Slice, a competent recruiter would help. You are replacing Mitch Richmond NOT Barry Rohrssen.[/quote]

Right now, we are still supposed to be in the running for Cockburn, Gaffney, Achiuwa, and some other 4 and 5 star recruits. The others on the short list are all bluebloods. If you think a competent recruiter is what will put us over the top, then you and I disagree. I will agree that if Mitch is not doing the things that other assistants do at the programs we are really competing with for recruits, then changes should be made.[/quote]

We are not really in the running. We are fading on most of those kids. That is fact.

Gaffney is a little different, but he is also NOT a top 30 kid.

And you have no idea what would work. You are guessing so you don't have to admit serious mistakes have been made.[/quote]

I do know what would work. And if you think others don't do it, then you have a different view of how things work than I do. We are not playing on a level playing field. That doesn't mean we should tolerate an assistant coach that allegedly doesn't carry his weight.[/quote]

OK now it sounds like you are agreeing with me.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=293446]Bottom line, those who want everyone to sing kumbaya with awful results and apparently minimal coaching effort (MR) better get used to frustrated fans who are fed up. It will never change unless there is success. This is what happens and it's completely logical. By the way, I doubt it's true about administration and not Mullin not allowing the Rice hire. It's already been established that Mullin is a monarch at our school and could probably give Bobby an atomic wedgie and get away with it. So if it's what Mullin wants, I can't see admin saying no to him.[/quote]

This is a sophisticated message board. We do not use terms like "atomic wedgie". More appropriate would be "a piledriver", or perhaps a tombstone pile driver" for emphasis. I will even accept DDT, RKO, or sweet chin music.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293448]We are not really in the running. We are fading on most of those kids. That is fact.

Gaffney is a little different, but he is also NOT a top 30 kid.[/quote]

Best case scenario as far as I can see is that we we win as much as I expect us to (with Heron), and late signees who are looking to leave home from elsewhere in the country get excited by the noise we make in the tournament and want to come here.

I'm shocked that posters don't see the situation after this season as dire. Clark is definitely gone and we could lose Ponds, Heron, and Simon.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293445][quote="we are sju" post=293442][quote="fordham96" post=293437][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

Right that is why he was recognized at Pitt because he offering Kentucky when he was at Pitt.

But regardless of whether he was a good hire or not that is entirely on Mullin. Furthermore his replacement is on Mullin so not sure what the point is other than Mullin made both choices.[/quote]

Don't remember who was having this argument in another form, but at that time, Pitt successful in the Big East was def more desirable than a program that has made the tourney twice in last what 20 years.[/quote]

Based on what? Prior to Howland's arrival they did NOTHING.

Furthermore Slice's contributions were enormous. Lastly you are now implying a good assistant has no impact because you are now insisting that the only reasons Slice has success at Pitt because Pitt was more desirable. So it really doesn't matter who SJU hires now at this point. Come one, stop with this stupidity.

Calipari hired Josh Pastner at Memphis and Kenny Payne and Slice at UK. 3 tremendous recruiters. Of course Cal's own reputation helped but if that was the only thing he would hire were no one's who would cost nothing.

Slice's reputation preceded him BEFORE he ever got to UK.

But this is less about Mike Rice specifically or even Slice and about Mitch Richmond. To me Rice became the easiest solution (I am on record as wanting others).[/quote]

BTW-Here is the 5 year record of Ralph Willard at Pitt prior to him being fired in 1999 and being replaced by Ben Howland. Desirable? Really? The below is a better 5 year run then what Lavin had at SJU? Really? That is pretty GOD AWFUL. 1 remotely decent season. 4 seasons that were literally garbage.

Pittsburgh Panthers (Big East Conference) (1994–1999)
1994–95 Pittsburgh 10–18 5–13 9th
1995–96 Pittsburgh 10–17 5–13 7th (BE 7)
1996–97 Pittsburgh 18–15 10–8 T–2nd (BE 7) NIT Second Round
1997–98 Pittsburgh 11–16 6–12 T–5th (BE 7)
1998–99 Pittsburgh 14–16 5–13 9th
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=293451]
This is a sophisticated message board. We do not use terms like "atomic wedgie". More appropriate would be "a piledriver", or perhaps a tombstone pile driver" for emphasis. I will even accept DDT, RKO, or sweet chin music.[/quote]

Unfortunately, the school often seems like it still thinks an airplane spin or an abdominal stretch is a strong finishing maneuver.
 
[quote="mkras99" post=293454]Holy shit - so is Mitch being replaced? If so, Rice?[/quote]

Believe it or not there are still rumblings of a staff shakeup. Could come at different angles.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293456][quote="mkras99" post=293454]Holy shit - so is Mitch being replaced? If so, Rice?[/quote]

Believe it or not there are still rumblings of a staff shakeup. Could come at different angles.[/quote]

I don’t know what that means, but I welcome anything that puts an end to this thread.
 
[quote="Ray Morgan" post=293451][quote="Mike Zaun" post=293446]Bottom line, those who want everyone to sing kumbaya with awful results and apparently minimal coaching effort (MR) better get used to frustrated fans who are fed up. It will never change unless there is success. This is what happens and it's completely logical. By the way, I doubt it's true about administration and not Mullin not allowing the Rice hire. It's already been established that Mullin is a monarch at our school and could probably give Bobby an atomic wedgie and get away with it. So if it's what Mullin wants, I can't see admin saying no to him.[/quote]

This is a sophisticated message board. We do not use terms like "atomic wedgie". More appropriate would be "a piledriver", or perhaps a tombstone pile driver" for emphasis. I will even accept DDT, RKO, or sweet chin music.[/quote] totally agree. Ban any further mention of atomic wedgies. Mullin is clearly old school and would use a Bob Backlund “ crossface chicken wing “
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293453][quote="fordham96" post=293445][quote="we are sju" post=293442][quote="fordham96" post=293437][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

Right that is why he was recognized at Pitt because he offering Kentucky when he was at Pitt.

But regardless of whether he was a good hire or not that is entirely on Mullin. Furthermore his replacement is on Mullin so not sure what the point is other than Mullin made both choices.[/quote]

Don't remember who was having this argument in another form, but at that time, Pitt successful in the Big East was def more desirable than a program that has made the tourney twice in last what 20 years.[/quote]

Based on what? Prior to Howland's arrival they did NOTHING.

Furthermore Slice's contributions were enormous. Lastly you are now implying a good assistant has no impact because you are now insisting that the only reasons Slice has success at Pitt because Pitt was more desirable. So it really doesn't matter who SJU hires now at this point. Come one, stop with this stupidity.

Calipari hired Josh Pastner at Memphis and Kenny Payne and Slice at UK. 3 tremendous recruiters. Of course Cal's own reputation helped but if that was the only thing he would hire were no one's who would cost nothing.

Slice's reputation preceded him BEFORE he ever got to UK.

But this is less about Mike Rice specifically or even Slice and about Mitch Richmond. To me Rice became the easiest solution (I am on record as wanting others).[/quote]

BTW-Here is the 5 year record of Ralph Willard at Pitt prior to him being fired in 1999 and being replaced by Ben Howland. Desirable? Really? The below is a better 5 year run then what Lavin had at SJU? Really? That is pretty GOD AWFUL. 1 remotely decent season. 4 seasons that were literally garbage.

Pittsburgh Panthers (Big East Conference) (1994–1999)
1994–95 Pittsburgh 10–18 5–13 9th
1995–96 Pittsburgh 10–17 5–13 7th (BE 7)
1996–97 Pittsburgh 18–15 10–8 T–2nd (BE 7) NIT Second Round
1997–98 Pittsburgh 11–16 6–12 T–5th (BE 7)
1998–99 Pittsburgh 14–16 5–13 9th[/quote]

Unless I am wrong Slice went over to Pitt 01 coming off NIT year
 
[quote="we are sju" post=293459][quote="fordham96" post=293453][quote="fordham96" post=293445][quote="we are sju" post=293442][quote="fordham96" post=293437][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

Right that is why he was recognized at Pitt because he offering Kentucky when he was at Pitt.

But regardless of whether he was a good hire or not that is entirely on Mullin. Furthermore his replacement is on Mullin so not sure what the point is other than Mullin made both choices.[/quote]

Don't remember who was having this argument in another form, but at that time, Pitt successful in the Big East was def more desirable than a program that has made the tourney twice in last what 20 years.[/quote]

Based on what? Prior to Howland's arrival they did NOTHING.

Furthermore Slice's contributions were enormous. Lastly you are now implying a good assistant has no impact because you are now insisting that the only reasons Slice has success at Pitt because Pitt was more desirable. So it really doesn't matter who SJU hires now at this point. Come one, stop with this stupidity.

Calipari hired Josh Pastner at Memphis and Kenny Payne and Slice at UK. 3 tremendous recruiters. Of course Cal's own reputation helped but if that was the only thing he would hire were no one's who would cost nothing.

Slice's reputation preceded him BEFORE he ever got to UK.

But this is less about Mike Rice specifically or even Slice and about Mitch Richmond. To me Rice became the easiest solution (I am on record as wanting others).[/quote]

BTW-Here is the 5 year record of Ralph Willard at Pitt prior to him being fired in 1999 and being replaced by Ben Howland. Desirable? Really? The below is a better 5 year run then what Lavin had at SJU? Really? That is pretty GOD AWFUL. 1 remotely decent season. 4 seasons that were literally garbage.

Pittsburgh Panthers (Big East Conference) (1994–1999)
1994–95 Pittsburgh 10–18 5–13 9th
1995–96 Pittsburgh 10–17 5–13 7th (BE 7)
1996–97 Pittsburgh 18–15 10–8 T–2nd (BE 7) NIT Second Round
1997–98 Pittsburgh 11–16 6–12 T–5th (BE 7)
1998–99 Pittsburgh 14–16 5–13 9th[/quote]

Unless I am wrong Slice went over to Pitt 01 coming off NIT year[/quote]

Seriously that is your argument. First off he CAME to SJU what difference does it make when. He also nearly left Pitt in 2004 for SJU and Norm. That is a fact. He also nearly left Manhattan to join to Lavin.

BTW-SJU was coming off a NCAA year in 2015 when he joined Mullin so you lose there too.

Your entire argument is pathetic. Just stop.
 
[quote="fordham96" post=293460][quote="we are sju" post=293459][quote="fordham96" post=293453][quote="fordham96" post=293445][quote="we are sju" post=293442][quote="fordham96" post=293437][quote="we are sju" post=293433][quote="Ray Morgan" post=293431][quote="fordham96" post=293429]Let's be clear I am not opposed to using transfers. They can be effective. But I don't think it should be the primary recruiting tool. It has become that way because the staff has not been able to successfully land many of its top targets. And that is a fact that cannot be overlooked.

And there is NO ONE HERE who could have predicted that when Mullin was hired on 4/1/15. Meaning when he put the staff together there is NO ONE on this board who was saying, "Guys recruiting this area is tough. Getting top kids is tough. Lavin proved it was tough. So let's keep our expectations at a minimum. In fact we can forget about landing just about any top 50 local recruit and simply concentrate on transfers and hope we get lucky. "

These types of things are being said AFTER THE FACT after numerous excuses have been exhausted. That is my larger point.[/quote]

So what would you do? What is your solution? Everyone had on rose colored glasses when Mullin was hired. He quickly put together a dream staff. But Slice didn't seem all that effective when he wasn't offering whatever was offered to convince stud after stud to go to Kentucky. You want to see St. John's compete with some of the big names, which is who we compete with for 4 and 5 star talent? Then please enlighten me how to get that done. Without the stipend, and while running a clean program.[/quote]

Mostly he wasn't offering Kentucky.
That is the one issue that some on here can't seem to fathom for some strange reason.[/quote]

Right that is why he was recognized at Pitt because he offering Kentucky when he was at Pitt.

But regardless of whether he was a good hire or not that is entirely on Mullin. Furthermore his replacement is on Mullin so not sure what the point is other than Mullin made both choices.[/quote]

Don't remember who was having this argument in another form, but at that time, Pitt successful in the Big East was def more desirable than a program that has made the tourney twice in last what 20 years.[/quote]

Based on what? Prior to Howland's arrival they did NOTHING.

Furthermore Slice's contributions were enormous. Lastly you are now implying a good assistant has no impact because you are now insisting that the only reasons Slice has success at Pitt because Pitt was more desirable. So it really doesn't matter who SJU hires now at this point. Come one, stop with this stupidity.

Calipari hired Josh Pastner at Memphis and Kenny Payne and Slice at UK. 3 tremendous recruiters. Of course Cal's own reputation helped but if that was the only thing he would hire were no one's who would cost nothing.

Slice's reputation preceded him BEFORE he ever got to UK.

But this is less about Mike Rice specifically or even Slice and about Mitch Richmond. To me Rice became the easiest solution (I am on record as wanting others).[/quote]

BTW-Here is the 5 year record of Ralph Willard at Pitt prior to him being fired in 1999 and being replaced by Ben Howland. Desirable? Really? The below is a better 5 year run then what Lavin had at SJU? Really? That is pretty GOD AWFUL. 1 remotely decent season. 4 seasons that were literally garbage.

Pittsburgh Panthers (Big East Conference) (1994–1999)
1994–95 Pittsburgh 10–18 5–13 9th
1995–96 Pittsburgh 10–17 5–13 7th (BE 7)
1996–97 Pittsburgh 18–15 10–8 T–2nd (BE 7) NIT Second Round
1997–98 Pittsburgh 11–16 6–12 T–5th (BE 7)
1998–99 Pittsburgh 14–16 5–13 9th[/quote]

Unless I am wrong Slice went over to Pitt 01 coming off NIT year[/quote]

Seriously that is your argument. First off he CAME to SJU what difference does it make when. He also nearly left Pitt in 2004 for SJU and Norm. That is a fact. He also nearly left Manhattan to join to Lavin.

BTW-SJU was coming off a NCAA year in 2015 when he joined Mullin so you lose there too.

Your entire argument is pathetic. Just stop.[/quote]

My only argument is that you can't recruit Kentucky talent at ST John's.
In fact you cant recruit early 00 Pitt talent at ST john's
You brought up Slice at Pitt because you are very annoying. Half the time you argue in circles. You are in one now.
I never argued that Slice can't recruit. I only pointed out he couldn't recruit here because really no one outside of Lavin's first class has.
 
[quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=293438][quote="we are sju" post=293407][quote="Delaware" post=293406][quote="jcoggs" post=293390]Let's root hard and often.[/quote]

This Coaching staff is hard to root for........[/quote]

Yeah imagine if the Yankees had hired Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle to manage them. How could Yankee fans have possibly rooted for them?

Or how about if Tom Seaver or Mike Piazza were managing the Mets? How could Met fans possibly root for them?

And just imagine the fan hatred if Bernard King, Patrick Ewing or Walt Frazier had coached the Knicks.

How long before Ranger fans ran Messier out of town?

This is a stupid fan base![/quote]
GSJ is a youngster. They are learning on the job. I dont think this fan base is that stupid.[/quote]

https://redstormsports.com/news/201...ed_2017_18_NABC_30_under_30_Honoree.aspx?path=mbball

Greg St. Jean isn't just a kid who wants to coach. He's a former college player who grew up in basketball, has already has 2 years of NBA experience as a player development coach, and in 3 seasons, has shown himself to have a strong sidelines presence.

He hasn't "taken over" the team as some suggest, but Greg has said he is in perfect lockstep with Mullin on strategy and assignments, and also speaks to Mullin late into the nights just talking basketball and strategy.

He is just one of 15 D1 coaches to receive the honor bestowed upon him and only 1 of 2 in the Big East. His star is bright, and if you think that he couldn't find a mid major willing to take a shot on him right now, I believe you are mistaken.

I don't know what his role would have been if Rice came on board, but I'm afraid if Rice came, Greg would exit, then once restored, Rice would exit also.

No I don't think you are that stupid, but it's flat out dumb to call a 28 year old entering his 6th year of coaching just a kid.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=293462][quote="richard A Steinfeld" post=293438][quote="we are sju" post=293407][quote="Delaware" post=293406][quote="jcoggs" post=293390]Let's root hard and often.[/quote]

This Coaching staff is hard to root for........[/quote]

Yeah imagine if the Yankees had hired Babe Ruth or Mickey Mantle to manage them. How could Yankee fans have possibly rooted for them?

Or how about if Tom Seaver or Mike Piazza were managing the Mets? How could Met fans possibly root for them?

And just imagine the fan hatred if Bernard King, Patrick Ewing or Walt Frazier had coached the Knicks.

How long before Ranger fans ran Messier out of town?

This is a stupid fan base![/quote]
GSJ is a youngster. They are learning on the job. I dont think this fan base is that stupid.[/quote]

https://redstormsports.com/news/201...ed_2017_18_NABC_30_under_30_Honoree.aspx?path=mbball

Greg St. Jean isn't just a kid who wants to coach. He's a former college player who grew up in basketball, has already has 2 years of NBA experience as a player development coach, and in 3 seasons, has shown himself to have a strong sidelines presence.

He hasn't "taken over" the team as some suggest, but Greg has said he is in perfect lockstep with Mullin on strategy and assignments, and also speaks to Mullin late into the nights just talking basketball and strategy.

He is just one of 15 D1 coaches to receive the honor bestowed upon him and only 1 of 2 in the Big East. His star is bright, and if you think that he couldn't find a mid major willing to take a shot on him right now, I believe you are mistaken.

I don't know what his role would have been if Rice came on board, but I'm afraid if Rice came, Greg would exit, then once restored, Rice would exit also.

No I don't think you are that stupid, but it's flat out dumb to call a 28 year old entering his 6th year of coaching just a kid.[/quote]

Why would GSJ leave if we were a fully-manned Staff, with 2 AC’s fully committed to the program and with primary recruiting functions?
We’re undermanned with Mitch in key functions, recruiting and commitment to the program and, hence, at a functional disadvantage versus other high major and BEC teams.
Rice is not the issue.
Our undermanned Staff is.
Looking forward to next season and with dread beyond that.
 
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