a lot of endlessly repetitive chatter

[quote="fordham96" post=292846][quote="Dan V" post=292845][quote="redmannorth" post=292831][quote="Dan V" post=292830][quote="fordham96" post=292712]The biggest issue is talent accumulation and depth, period. The idea they are losing games because if in game coaching is nonsense. They need to recruit better, period. Both talent and depth on a more consistent basis. This year clearly is lining up to be best year, but this staff was not hired to be a 1 in 4 year staff. It was to be good every year and to set their sets on competing with Nova for BE titles.

To do that you need players. That is where a solid assistant with grass roots connections can help.[/quote]
Yes its true but you make it sound as if recruiting talented players is all it takes and thats definitely not true in college basketball. Johnny Jones had Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney and a bunch of 4 star guys at LSU and they were terrible. In college you need good coaching you cant just roll the balls out expect to win big, it just doesnt work that way. The best coaches maximize their talent anyway. Brad Stevens went to back to back title games with 3 star or lower ranked players. Even without Stevens Butler still keeps winning with similarly ranked players as SJU.[/quote]

Fordham96 said talent and depth. We had no depth last year. This year we return our three key starters who should all play 30 minutes a game , substitute Keita for Owens and hopefully Figueroa can replace Bashir. Then we have four unproven big east players and Trimble not including Heron. We should be much better as all four new BE players plus Trimble should be able to give us 10 minutes a game. Even without Heron we finally have limited depth.[/quote]
Yes I read his post and my point still stands. Depth while great to have is not neccessary to win in college basketball. Just ask Eric Musselman who knows more about basketball than all 3 of us combined. Not every national champion has had depth. Villanova last year, Duke in '15, Kentucky in '12, UConn in '11, UNC in '09, Kansas in '08, Florida in '07 and '06, UConn in '04, Maryland in '02, etc... all ran 6 or 7 man rotations which is 5 starters and 1 or 2 guys off the bench. The excuses have to stop. Honestly Ponds, Simon, Ahmed, Clark, Owens, Trimble, Yakwe should of been enough for us not to lose 11 big east games in a row last year. Beating Duke and Nova proved that, its not even an argument to be honest just be real. I dont hate Mullin at all really I just want to win. Yeah we should make the dance next year easily (+Heron) and have enough talent to win some games when we get there. Im just worried we will underachieve because of the lack of coaching experience. Its a geniune concern people are not on here complaining for no reason, they've watched enough ball to see that. Its annoying to me when people refuse to address issues because they just want to be happy and not think about things, you know what i call that, being a sheep.[/quote]

That is not my point. Of course coaching matters the point is though the BIGGEST reason the first 3 seasons have turned out the way they have is lack of talent and depth. Period. People think they are 12-42 because he needs a sideline guru, that is nonsense. The single biggest issue with this program has been depth and talent. Cant get to coaching until that is solved ][/quote]
Not talking about the first 2 years, I mentioned only last year. Never mentioned anything about an assistant coach if thats what you meant by sideline guru, im talking about the HEAD coach's lack of experience. Once again your missing the point. Hopefully you feel like this upcoming year we have enough that we can "get to coaching".
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=292843][quote="Chicago Days" post=292839][quote="johnny redman" post=292833]Mullin and Richman are winners! St. Johns is a great University! Our roster is strong and I cant wait for the season to start! I choose to stay optimistic and excited, what "stinks" about that? Go St. Johns![/quote]

Are you Al Bovino’s twin brother?
I luvved Chris Mullin the player and support him as coach.
But ‘winning’—for a slew of reasons—has this far evaded his coaching tenure.
I agree that this next season looks like it’ll break the impasse.
Let’s hope for a very big year.
Thanks.[/quote]

He's Al's nephew. He goes by the name "Koolaide Man".

URL]
[/quote][/quote]

Was away for a week, didn't post or read and saw 220 messages, so disappointed nothing has changed.

To be fair 72, given barren roster and defections, last 2 seasons were about as good as can be expected and no one would have won more games given the roster.

Also to be fair CMs major qualifications were HOF player and hometown boy. MRs major qualification is HOF and hometown boy's best friend. That might pass muster if he was working hard, which might happen if he was apprenticing for his own college gig. As it is, he's just collecting a meager (by nba standards) paycheck. I think he was also my uber driver while I was in san fran. Times are tough.

I believe the pressure to add an assistant is coming from outside of team. Some assistants would welcome it, and you can guess who. I don't know for sure but I sense CM may not be inclined to change, especially if it means dumping ur cutting pay to best friend. Just an opinion here with only inferences from those with authority.

We are acting like Rice is a messiah so this is all so overblown, but I do think he would make a nice addition. Still time though.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=292851]

We are acting like Rice is a messiah so this is all so overblown, but I do think he would make a nice addition. Still time though.[/quote]

I have wondered why if Mr. Rice is as much of an overall positive as many of the repetitive posters on this site would have us believe then why another D1 program has not swooped in and already given him an offer he could not refuse.

Yeah, I hope Mullin hires a new assistant and if it is Mr. Rice then that will be fine but it is comical to read some of the posts in this thread.

From all accounts Mr. Rice is doing a solid job of rehabilitating his past poor judgment but let’s not make him into a “messaih” (Beast’s term), I hope he succeeds.
 
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[quote="otis" post=292854][quote="Beast of the East" post=292851]

We are acting like Rice is a messiah so this is all so overblown, but I do think he would make a nice addition. Still time though.[/quote]

I have wondered why if Mr. Rice is as much of an overall positive as many of the repetitive posters on this site would have us believe then why another D1 program has not swooped in and already given him an offer he could not refuse.

Yeah, I hope Mullin hires a new assistant and if it is Mr. Rice then that will be fine but it is comical to read some of the posts in this thread.

From all accounts Mr. Rice is doing a solid job of rehabilitating his past poor judgment but let’s not make him into a “messaih” (Beast’s term), I hope he succeeds.[/quote]

Rice’s best option, to avoid uprooting his family, is SJU from what I understand. I, like Fordham, feel the program needs to land some solid kids consistently and not rely on transfers too much. We desperately need continuity. I certainly don’t believe Rice is a savior, but do think he could help on the recruiting front. Also, it is clear promoting Mitch to a AC job was a mistake. His participation in recruiting has been minimal to be kind. I would think he could help the program in other ways, but not at expense of recruiting. Thus Rice or another capable guy could fill a big void imo.

Lastly it is my educated impression that Rice is the only candidate interviewed to date. If Chris chooses to move on from Rice, I expect no changes. That’s fine, but not preferable. In any event, this season should be a good litmus test on the competence of this regime.
 
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LJSA, it almost looks like you are hoping for a poor Season to justify your adulation for Mike Rice as a Coaching guru . The talent on the floor this Season , if Heron plays , might perform better than any of Lavin’s teams but, that is my opinion . Rice dazzled the BE , while st Rutgers , with a 44-51 Record and the accompanying abuse of his Players . Many here Claim he is Rehabilitated . What is that based on ? Mostly his record Coaching at the AAU level . If those who advocate Rice as the surefire fix to our return to a Winning , can we ask WHY ? Is it solely based on a few good years at Robert Morris ? What does that mean ? Nothing really .. The list of College Coaches who excelled at Tulsa and failed at Wake Forest or, were successful at Vanderbilt but, failed miserably at Pitt is long and distinguished . Reference to Manning and Stallings respectively . And , there are dozens more. Yet, the same tub thumpers for Rice , who claim he is now brand new, changed , Rehabbed and more skilled , are eager to deny Mullin this coming season , with a Roster completely of his Players , without throwing daggers at him on nearly every post . Many BE teams have long history in scheduling Cupcakes in the early season . Boeheim liked LeMoyne, Niagara and St Bona . Calhoun liked Central Conn State , Sacred Heart , Hartford . G’town liked Hampton, Howard , UMBC. The prevailing factor in determing any Post Season Tournament for us , will be BE Record and season finish plus BE Tourney performance . OOC , if a win over Duke is forthcoming will help but, not as much as 2 Wins over Nova , just saying .
 
Fordham you must have forgotten the nearly unanimous Amnesty given to Mullin fur his first year here as it was clearly the residue of Steve ... Subtract that season and the record is different . Besides what other team last season could claim Wins over Duke and National Champuon Villanova in the same week . And , that was a team comprised largely of 3 legit BE players in Ponds, Clark and Simon . Owens and Ahmed being marginal role players . Trimble , a nice surprise as a Frosh . And , have you factored in the loss of a sure fire 15-20’points a game from the defector Lovett ?
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=292857]LJSA, it almost looks like you are hoping for a poor Season to justify your adulation for Mike Rice as a Coaching guru . The talent on the floor this Season , if Heron plays , might perform better than any of Lavin’s teams but, that is my opinion . Rice dazzled the BE , while st Rutgers , with a 44-51 Record and the accompanying abuse of his Players . Many here Claim he is Rehabilitated . What is that based on ? Mostly his record Coaching at the AAU level . If those who advocate Rice as the surefire fix to our return to a Winning , can we ask WHY ? Is it solely based on a few good years at Robert Morris ? What does that mean ? Nothing really .. The list of College Coaches who excelled at Tulsa and failed at Wake Forest or, were successful at Vanderbilt but, failed miserably at Pitt is long and distinguished . Reference to Manning and Stallings respectively . And , there are dozens more. Yet, the same tub thumpers for Rice , who claim he is now brand new, changed , Rehabbed and more skilled , are eager to deny Mullin this coming season , with a Roster completely of his Players , without throwing daggers at him on nearly every post . Many BE teams have long history in scheduling Cupcakes in the early season . Boeheim liked LeMoyne, Niagara and St Bona . Calhoun liked Central Conn State , Sacred Heart , Hartford . G’town liked Hampton, Howard , UMBC. The prevailing factor in determing any Post Season Tournament for us , will be BE Record and season finish plus BE Tourney performance . OOC , if a win over Duke is forthcoming will help but, not as much as 2 Wins over Nova , just saying .[/quote]
No one is basing Rice's rehab on his AAU coaching record and doubt anyone even knows what it is.It is based on his rehab of taking anger management classes, his relationship with Dlo who knows him from those classes and developed a relationship with him and his coaching of young men in the AAU circuit without incident and with those players and families developing relationships with him. But then something tells me you already knew that but your post was based on your personal agenda.
 
Bama , we all have our personal agendas . You included . Keep your opinion. I will keep mine . But, be civil . I hope Rice is rehabbed . AAU Coaching is not the pressure cooker BE Basketball is .. Does he lose his job and likely meager pay check if his team loses ? Not likely . The Pressure to win at Rutgers , a almost impossible job if ever there was one , must have been enormous on Rice . And , his record there in 3 seasons wasn’t going to get him a new offer from a another team, 44-51 at Rutgers and it’s continuance for a season or 2 more probably would have gotten Rice fired. And , who here in these Forums is really qualified to evaluate the ability of any Coach . Even the People who pick Coaches for a living get it wrong as many times as they get it right . Why does Coach A win big at School X and yet, fail miserably at School Y? Probably due to the talent or lack therof .. Frank McGuire once said , “it’s more about the Billy and Joe’s than the x’s and O’s.”
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=292851][quote="Class of 72" post=292843][quote="Chicago Days" post=292839][quote="johnny redman" post=292833]Mullin and Richman are winners! St. Johns is a great University! Our roster is strong and I cant wait for the season to start! I choose to stay optimistic and excited, what "stinks" about that? Go St. Johns![/quote]

Are you Al Bovino’s twin brother?
I luvved Chris Mullin the player and support him as coach.
But ‘winning’—for a slew of reasons—has this far evaded his coaching tenure.
I agree that this next season looks like it’ll break the impasse.
Let’s hope for a very big year.
Thanks.[/quote]

He's Al's nephew. He goes by the name "Koolaide Man".

URL]
[/quote][/quote]

Was away for a week, didn't post or read and saw 220 messages, so disappointed nothing has changed.

To be fair 72, given barren roster and defections, last 2 seasons were about as good as can be expected and no one would have won more games given the roster.

Also to be fair CMs major qualifications were HOF player and hometown boy. MRs major qualification is HOF and hometown boy's best friend. That might pass muster if he was working hard, which might happen if he was apprenticing for his own college gig. As it is, he's just collecting a meager (by nba standards) paycheck. I think he was also my uber driver while I was in san fran. Times are tough.

I believe the pressure to add an assistant is coming from outside of team. Some assistants would welcome it, and you can guess who. I don't know for sure but I sense CM may not be inclined to change, especially if it means dumping ur cutting pay to best friend. Just an opinion here with only inferences from those with authority.

We are acting like Rice is a messiah so this is all so overblown, but I do think he would make a nice addition. Still time though.[/quote]

Welcome back Beast! We missed you!
As for meager salaries, I wish I could earn the equivalent of $3 million for 8 months worth of work coaching 13 kids.;)
 
[quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=292857]LJSA, it almost looks like you are hoping for a poor Season to justify your adulation for Mike Rice as a Coaching guru . The talent on the floor this Season , if Heron plays , might perform better than any of Lavin’s teams but, that is my opinion . Rice dazzled the BE , while st Rutgers , with a 44-51 Record and the accompanying abuse of his Players . Many here Claim he is Rehabilitated . What is that based on ? Mostly his record Coaching at the AAU level . If those who advocate Rice as the surefire fix to our return to a Winning , can we ask WHY ? Is it solely based on a few good years at Robert Morris ? What does that mean ? Nothing really .. The list of College Coaches who excelled at Tulsa and failed at Wake Forest or, were successful at Vanderbilt but, failed miserably at Pitt is long and distinguished . Reference to Manning and Stallings respectively . And , there are dozens more. Yet, the same tub thumpers for Rice , who claim he is now brand new, changed , Rehabbed and more skilled , are eager to deny Mullin this coming season , with a Roster completely of his Players , without throwing daggers at him on nearly every post . Many BE teams have long history in scheduling Cupcakes in the early season . Boeheim liked LeMoyne, Niagara and St Bona . Calhoun liked Central Conn State , Sacred Heart , Hartford . G’town liked Hampton, Howard , UMBC. The prevailing factor in determing any Post Season Tournament for us , will be BE Record and season finish plus BE Tourney performance . OOC , if a win over Duke is forthcoming will help but, not as much as 2 Wins over Nova , just saying .[/quote]

Look, I'm OK adding Mike Rice just to add an experienced college coach who can recruit to the staff in place of a cardboard cutout of Mitch Richmond.
As for the agenda driven Homers pointing to Rice's record at Rutgers they will conveniently disregard his record at Robert Morris where he went to three post season tourneys and two NCAAs.  They will also neglect to point out that the Big East of his day included Syracuse, Uconn, Cincinnati, Villanova, Louisville, Marquette, VaTech, Georgetown, etc. etc.
Finally, his record at Rutgers was better than Mullin's to date but Chris started with Slice and now has Richmond.  Great management decisions to say the least.
MULLIN:
St. John's: 38–60 (.388) 12–42 (.222)
Rice:
Robert Morris: 73–31 (.702) 46–8 (.852)
Rutgers: 44–51 (.463) 16–38 (.296)
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=292862][quote="Beast of the East" post=292851][quote="Class of 72" post=292843][quote="Chicago Days" post=292839][quote="johnny redman" post=292833]Mullin and Richman are winners! St. Johns is a great University! Our roster is strong and I cant wait for the season to start! I choose to stay optimistic and excited, what "stinks" about that? Go St. Johns![/quote]

Are you Al Bovino’s twin brother?
I luvved Chris Mullin the player and support him as coach.
But ‘winning’—for a slew of reasons—has this far evaded his coaching tenure.
I agree that this next season looks like it’ll break the impasse.
Let’s hope for a very big year.
Thanks.[/quote]

He's Al's nephew. He goes by the name "Koolaide Man".

URL]
[/quote][/quote]

Was away for a week, didn't post or read and saw 220 messages, so disappointed nothing has changed.

To be fair 72, given barren roster and defections, last 2 seasons were about as good as can be expected and no one would have won more games given the roster.

Also to be fair CMs major qualifications were HOF player and hometown boy. MRs major qualification is HOF and hometown boy's best friend. That might pass muster if he was working hard, which might happen if he was apprenticing for his own college gig. As it is, he's just collecting a meager (by nba standards) paycheck. I think he was also my uber driver while I was in san fran. Times are tough.

I believe the pressure to add an assistant is coming from outside of team. Some assistants would welcome it, and you can guess who. I don't know for sure but I sense CM may not be inclined to change, especially if it means dumping ur cutting pay to best friend. Just an opinion here with only inferences from those with authority.

We are acting like Rice is a messiah so this is all so overblown, but I do think he would make a nice addition. Still time though.[/quote]

Welcome back Beast! We missed you!
As for meager salaries, I wish I could earn the equivalent of $3 million for 8 months worth of work coaching 13 kids.;)[/quote]


I’m a huge Chris Mullin fan. My hoops dream is for St. John’s to win the National Championship with Chris at the helm.
But he does not own the team. This is not his business. Th University has entrusted its favorite and legendary ‘son’ with the HC mantle to lead the team to better times.
He has to be fully engaged and make wise decisions for that hope to have a chance..
Mike Rice is no ‘savior’, but as a college coach, he is heads and shoulders above a part-time Mitch.
St. John’s has a crying need for its coaching staff to be a fully-functioning unit.
It is not presently ‘that’.
Should Chris decide to ‘pass’ on Rice and retain Empry Chair Mitch, that would be a black mark on Chris and would continue to damage the program.
It is that simple.
Rice fulfills needs.
Mitch’s half-hearted AC role holds us back.
 
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Season can't get here soon enough. Let's just get MH eligible and take it from there.
 
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If Coach Mullin elects to hire an experience assistant with D1 head coaching experience he would do well to consider John Giannini.
 
[quote="otis" post=292867]If Coach Mullin elects to hire an experience assistant with D1 head coaching experience he would do well to consider John Giannini.[/quote]

I think Paultz and others have opined that Rice is the only AC candidate we've interviewed.
It's a bit late to 'open up the process'.
No?
Sure, it is Mullin's decision.
But, if Chris passes on this chance to 'right-size' the Staff, he would be ignoring an obvious and critical weakness in Staff structure and functioning.
Ignoring obvious weaknesses in an organization typically leads to failure.
 
[quote="otis" post=292867]If Coach Mullin elects to hire an experience assistant with D1 head coaching experience he would do well to consider John Giannini.[/quote]

Nah.
 
[quote="bamafan" post=292860][quote="SLYFOXX1968" post=292857]LJSA, it almost looks like you are hoping for a poor Season to justify your adulation for Mike Rice as a Coaching guru . The talent on the floor this Season , if Heron plays , might perform better than any of Lavin’s teams but, that is my opinion . Rice dazzled the BE , while st Rutgers , with a 44-51 Record and the accompanying abuse of his Players . Many here Claim he is Rehabilitated . What is that based on ? Mostly his record Coaching at the AAU level . If those who advocate Rice as the surefire fix to our return to a Winning , can we ask WHY ? Is it solely based on a few good years at Robert Morris ? What does that mean ? Nothing really .. The list of College Coaches who excelled at Tulsa and failed at Wake Forest or, were successful at Vanderbilt but, failed miserably at Pitt is long and distinguished . Reference to Manning and Stallings respectively . And , there are dozens more. Yet, the same tub thumpers for Rice , who claim he is now brand new, changed , Rehabbed and more skilled , are eager to deny Mullin this coming season , with a Roster completely of his Players , without throwing daggers at him on nearly every post . Many BE teams have long history in scheduling Cupcakes in the early season . Boeheim liked LeMoyne, Niagara and St Bona . Calhoun liked Central Conn State , Sacred Heart , Hartford . G’town liked Hampton, Howard , UMBC. The prevailing factor in determing any Post Season Tournament for us , will be BE Record and season finish plus BE Tourney performance . OOC , if a win over Duke is forthcoming will help but, not as much as 2 Wins over Nova , just saying .[/quote]
No one is basing Rice's rehab on his AAU coaching record and doubt anyone even knows what it is.It is based on his rehab of taking anger management classes, his relationship with Dlo who knows him from those classes and developed a relationship with him and his coaching of young men in the AAU circuit without incident and with those players and families developing relationships with him. But then something tells me you already knew that but your post was based on your personal agenda.[/quote]

I'll add by mentioning a handful of cupcake opponents Syracuse, UConn and Georgetown has played doesn't have any relevance in regards to our schedule. We're talking about an overall schedule, and not a few cupcake teams. Every Power 6 program plays cupcakes, but not every, Power 6 program has a bottom-rung schedule.

Besides, Georgetown has never played Hampton in the regular season. Their only matchup was in the NCAA Tournament. They've only played UMBC twice. I know he just pulled some teams outta is ass to make a point. He never has his ducks in a row. He just spouts.
 
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[quote="johnny redman" post=292833]Mullin and Richman are winners! St. Johns is a great University! Our roster is strong and I cant wait for the season to start! I choose to stay optimistic and excited, what "stinks" about that? Go St. Johns![/quote]

Mitch, LOL, love your enthusiasm. See you soon - October.
 
[quote="Las Vegan" post=292876][quote="johnny redman" post=292833]Mullin and Richman are winners! St. Johns is a great University! Our roster is strong and I cant wait for the season to start! I choose to stay optimistic and excited, what "stinks" about that? Go St. Johns![/quote]

Mitch, LOL, love your enthusiasm. See you soon - October.[/quote]

Oh, wait, I thought he was talking about Jonathan Richman.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=292855]
Lastly it is my educated impression that Rice is the only candidate interviewed to date. If Chris chooses to move on from Rice, I expect no changes. That’s fine, but not preferable. In any event, this season should be a good litmus test on the competence of this regime.[/quote]

This pretty much sums it up for me. We were not in the market for an AC, but may have the opportunity to add a good one. If it happens, we're a better program with more credibility in the local recruiting game and a potential successor if Mullin moves on. If it doesn't happen, we still have more talent than we've seen in years and a chance for the current staff to show what they can do with it.

Signing Rice isn't a sink-or-swim decision. But I'd be happy to have him on board.
 
I'd like Rice, but I'd prefer Richmond move on even more and give the spot to anyone with remote qualifications and genuine interest.

The five month no-show job since Big East tourney is a joke. He's not a recruiter, does almost nothing during games.. so that leaves drills in practice or watching game film. Not a college basketball coach. Just seems like he did it at Mullin's asking since Slice debacle likely gave Mullin no room to bring someone else on financially so it was cheapest way to fill the role by the seat sliding and ensure Mullin is comfy and has a lunch and workout buddy.

Some may call it NEPOTISM.
.
 
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