a lot of endlessly repetitive chatter
- Thread starter paultzman
- Start date
Not 100% clear if Paultz' message is good news, I might just have to wear this if it is
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Class of 72
Active member
[quote="Knight" post=292781]When CM was a player, no one outworked him.
As a head coach, the perception is that that work effort is not present. It seems as though we have one recruiter, one x and o's guy, and a head coach and assistant head coach that are lazy or absent on the recruiting circuit. Recruiting is key in college basketball. CM and MR need to step up or step out. Mike Rice can help fill the void when and if MR exits. Need to see that CM really wants to continue as our HC.[/quote]
On a prorated basis we have the highest paid coaching staff in St. John's history with the historic lowest winning record.
Both Chris Mullin and Mitch Richmond work basically an 8 month year. That equates to Mullin earning a $3 million annual salary. That equates to the salaries of Jay Wright, Tony Benett, Gregg Marshall and Shaka Smart.
Throw in the salary of no show Slice at $600,000 and I never want to hear we can't afford another elite and experienced coach at St. John's because we are being fleeced pretty good by our favorite son right now.
As a head coach, the perception is that that work effort is not present. It seems as though we have one recruiter, one x and o's guy, and a head coach and assistant head coach that are lazy or absent on the recruiting circuit. Recruiting is key in college basketball. CM and MR need to step up or step out. Mike Rice can help fill the void when and if MR exits. Need to see that CM really wants to continue as our HC.[/quote]
On a prorated basis we have the highest paid coaching staff in St. John's history with the historic lowest winning record.
Both Chris Mullin and Mitch Richmond work basically an 8 month year. That equates to Mullin earning a $3 million annual salary. That equates to the salaries of Jay Wright, Tony Benett, Gregg Marshall and Shaka Smart.
Throw in the salary of no show Slice at $600,000 and I never want to hear we can't afford another elite and experienced coach at St. John's because we are being fleeced pretty good by our favorite son right now.
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Dan V
Well-known member
[quote="fordham96" post=292712]The biggest issue is talent accumulation and depth, period. The idea they are losing games because if in game coaching is nonsense. They need to recruit better, period. Both talent and depth on a more consistent basis. This year clearly is lining up to be best year, but this staff was not hired to be a 1 in 4 year staff. It was to be good every year and to set their sets on competing with Nova for BE titles.
To do that you need players. That is where a solid assistant with grass roots connections can help.[/quote]
Yes its true but you make it sound as if recruiting talented players is all it takes and thats definitely not true in college basketball. Johnny Jones had Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney and a bunch of 4 star guys at LSU and they were terrible. In college you need good coaching you cant just roll the balls out expect to win big, it just doesnt work that way. The best coaches maximize their talent anyway. Brad Stevens went to back to back title games with 3 star or lower ranked players. Even without Stevens Butler still keeps winning with similarly ranked players as SJU.
To do that you need players. That is where a solid assistant with grass roots connections can help.[/quote]
Yes its true but you make it sound as if recruiting talented players is all it takes and thats definitely not true in college basketball. Johnny Jones had Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney and a bunch of 4 star guys at LSU and they were terrible. In college you need good coaching you cant just roll the balls out expect to win big, it just doesnt work that way. The best coaches maximize their talent anyway. Brad Stevens went to back to back title games with 3 star or lower ranked players. Even without Stevens Butler still keeps winning with similarly ranked players as SJU.
[quote="Dan V" post=292830][quote="fordham96" post=292712]The biggest issue is talent accumulation and depth, period. The idea they are losing games because if in game coaching is nonsense. They need to recruit better, period. Both talent and depth on a more consistent basis. This year clearly is lining up to be best year, but this staff was not hired to be a 1 in 4 year staff. It was to be good every year and to set their sets on competing with Nova for BE titles.
To do that you need players. That is where a solid assistant with grass roots connections can help.[/quote]
Yes its true but you make it sound as if recruiting talented players is all it takes and thats definitely not true in college basketball. Johnny Jones had Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney and a bunch of 4 star guys at LSU and they were terrible. In college you need good coaching you cant just roll the balls out expect to win big, it just doesnt work that way. The best coaches maximize their talent anyway. Brad Stevens went to back to back title games with 3 star or lower ranked players. Even without Stevens Butler still keeps winning with similarly ranked players as SJU.[/quote]
Fordham96 said talent and depth. We had no depth last year. This year we return our three key starters who should all play 30 minutes a game , substitute Keita for Owens and hopefully Figueroa can replace Bashir. Then we have four unproven big east players and Trimble not including Heron. We should be much better as all four new BE players plus Trimble should be able to give us 10 minutes a game. Even without Heron we finally have limited depth.
To do that you need players. That is where a solid assistant with grass roots connections can help.[/quote]
Yes its true but you make it sound as if recruiting talented players is all it takes and thats definitely not true in college basketball. Johnny Jones had Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney and a bunch of 4 star guys at LSU and they were terrible. In college you need good coaching you cant just roll the balls out expect to win big, it just doesnt work that way. The best coaches maximize their talent anyway. Brad Stevens went to back to back title games with 3 star or lower ranked players. Even without Stevens Butler still keeps winning with similarly ranked players as SJU.[/quote]
Fordham96 said talent and depth. We had no depth last year. This year we return our three key starters who should all play 30 minutes a game , substitute Keita for Owens and hopefully Figueroa can replace Bashir. Then we have four unproven big east players and Trimble not including Heron. We should be much better as all four new BE players plus Trimble should be able to give us 10 minutes a game. Even without Heron we finally have limited depth.
[quote="redmannorth" post=292831][quote="Dan V" post=292830][quote="fordham96" post=292712]The biggest issue is talent accumulation and depth, period. The idea they are losing games because if in game coaching is nonsense. They need to recruit better, period. Both talent and depth on a more consistent basis. This year clearly is lining up to be best year, but this staff was not hired to be a 1 in 4 year staff. It was to be good every year and to set their sets on competing with Nova for BE titles.
To do that you need players. That is where a solid assistant with grass roots connections can help.[/quote]
Yes its true but you make it sound as if recruiting talented players is all it takes and thats definitely not true in college basketball. Johnny Jones had Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney and a bunch of 4 star guys at LSU and they were terrible. In college you need good coaching you cant just roll the balls out expect to win big, it just doesnt work that way. The best coaches maximize their talent anyway. Brad Stevens went to back to back title games with 3 star or lower ranked players. Even without Stevens Butler still keeps winning with similarly ranked players as SJU.[/quote]
Fordham96 said talent and depth. We had no depth last year. This year we return our three key starters who should all play 30 minutes a game , substitute Keita for Owens and hopefully Figueroa can replace Bashir. Then we have four unproven big east players and Trimble not including Heron. We should be much better as all four new BE players plus Trimble should be able to give us 10 minutes a game. Even without Heron we finally have limited depth.[/quote] I agree on paper we should definitely be MUCh better. Fingers crossed. This is the year to break through
To do that you need players. That is where a solid assistant with grass roots connections can help.[/quote]
Yes its true but you make it sound as if recruiting talented players is all it takes and thats definitely not true in college basketball. Johnny Jones had Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney and a bunch of 4 star guys at LSU and they were terrible. In college you need good coaching you cant just roll the balls out expect to win big, it just doesnt work that way. The best coaches maximize their talent anyway. Brad Stevens went to back to back title games with 3 star or lower ranked players. Even without Stevens Butler still keeps winning with similarly ranked players as SJU.[/quote]
Fordham96 said talent and depth. We had no depth last year. This year we return our three key starters who should all play 30 minutes a game , substitute Keita for Owens and hopefully Figueroa can replace Bashir. Then we have four unproven big east players and Trimble not including Heron. We should be much better as all four new BE players plus Trimble should be able to give us 10 minutes a game. Even without Heron we finally have limited depth.[/quote] I agree on paper we should definitely be MUCh better. Fingers crossed. This is the year to break through
redfan25976l
Member
Mullin and Richman are winners! St. Johns is a great University! Our roster is strong and I cant wait for the season to start! I choose to stay optimistic and excited, what "stinks" about that? Go St. Johns!
[quote="johnny redman" post=292833]Mullin and Richman are winners! St. Johns is a great University! Our roster is strong and I cant wait for the season to start! I choose to stay optimistic and excited, what "stinks" about that? Go St. Johns![/quote] Nothing wrong about that. They absolutely are winners. Some of the best basketball players to ever play the game and I think Mullin was one of the smartest on the court ever playing. We just cant call them winning coaches yet. That's just a fact
No reason not to be optimistic about this year. This is their most talented bunch yet. This is the year to be optimistic about the team. I wish we had much better schedule but take care of business pre conference and then take of business during conference play. Gotta go 10-8 in conference is my opinion assuming we take care of the crappy part of the schedule I know some think 10-8 is borderline but I'm hoping for 10-8 minimum
No reason not to be optimistic about this year. This is their most talented bunch yet. This is the year to be optimistic about the team. I wish we had much better schedule but take care of business pre conference and then take of business during conference play. Gotta go 10-8 in conference is my opinion assuming we take care of the crappy part of the schedule I know some think 10-8 is borderline but I'm hoping for 10-8 minimum
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redfan25976l
Member
This could be the breakout year! We have most of our scoring coming back. We will have 2 promising transfers that have sat a year learning and getting stronger. We have Figueroa who everyone seems to be high on and a good freshman recruiting class. I think earlington is going to contribute right away and Dixon is going to surprise. Go St Johns!
[quote="johnny redman" post=292837]This could be the breakout year! We have most of our scoring coming back. We will have 2 promising transfers that have sat a year learning and getting stronger. We have Figueroa who everyone seems to be high on and a good freshman recruiting class. I think earlington is going to contribute right away and Dixon is going to surprise. Go St Johns![/quote] Agree with everything except I think Earlington may be more of a project but this years team shouldn't have to depend on him for anything to be good
[quote="johnny redman" post=292833]Mullin and Richman are winners! St. Johns is a great University! Our roster is strong and I cant wait for the season to start! I choose to stay optimistic and excited, what "stinks" about that? Go St. Johns![/quote]
Are you Al Bovino’s twin brother?
I luvved Chris Mullin the player and support him as coach.
But ‘winning’—for a slew of reasons—has this far evaded his coaching tenure.
I agree that this next season looks like it’ll break the impasse.
Let’s hope for a very big year.
Thanks.
Are you Al Bovino’s twin brother?
I luvved Chris Mullin the player and support him as coach.
But ‘winning’—for a slew of reasons—has this far evaded his coaching tenure.
I agree that this next season looks like it’ll break the impasse.
Let’s hope for a very big year.
Thanks.
[quote="mjmaherjr" post=292838][quote="johnny redman" post=292837]This could be the breakout year! We have most of our scoring coming back. We will have 2 promising transfers that have sat a year learning and getting stronger. We have Figueroa who everyone seems to be high on and a good freshman recruiting class. I think earlington is going to contribute right away and Dixon is going to surprise. Go St Johns![/quote] Agree with everything except I think Earlington may be more of a project but this years team shouldn't have to depend on him for anything to be good[/quote]
Earlington will be an end of bench guy and hopefully evolves into a decent four year role player imo. He’s just too undersized and relatively new to devoting all his time to hoops.
Earlington will be an end of bench guy and hopefully evolves into a decent four year role player imo. He’s just too undersized and relatively new to devoting all his time to hoops.
Mullin & Richmond were clearly winners as players. They have yet to prove it as coaches and there are countless examples of one not necessarily equating to the other. Time will tell; no reason they shouldn't be successful with this roster. I am optimistic and believe this will be a good year for all of us Johnny fans, but the idea that to express any dissatisfaction with the program is somehow disloyal is complete nonsense.
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Class of 72
Active member
[quote="Chicago Days" post=292839][quote="johnny redman" post=292833]Mullin and Richman are winners! St. Johns is a great University! Our roster is strong and I cant wait for the season to start! I choose to stay optimistic and excited, what "stinks" about that? Go St. Johns![/quote]
Are you Al Bovino’s twin brother?
I luvved Chris Mullin the player and support him as coach.
But ‘winning’—for a slew of reasons—has this far evaded his coaching tenure.
I agree that this next season looks like it’ll break the impasse.
Let’s hope for a very big year.
Thanks.[/quote]
He's Al's nephew. He goes by the name "Koolaide Man".
![URL]](http://[URL]https://cimg.tvgcdn.net/i/r/2013/04/17/5bc335c7-6488-4d06-b663-07007dc2065a/resize/350x509/6fd653b0804942bc35b14231b54b02b7/130417kool-aid1.jpg[/URL])
[/quote]
Are you Al Bovino’s twin brother?
I luvved Chris Mullin the player and support him as coach.
But ‘winning’—for a slew of reasons—has this far evaded his coaching tenure.
I agree that this next season looks like it’ll break the impasse.
Let’s hope for a very big year.
Thanks.[/quote]
He's Al's nephew. He goes by the name "Koolaide Man".
[quote="L J S A" post=292840][quote="AlBovino" post=292769]They will continue to find something to be negative about, because that's who they are.[/quote]
Total BS. But it's an absolute certainty that if we suck, you'd still be blindly defending every decision the staff makes.[/quote]
Right like being 12-42 in League play, 3 straight losing seasons, countless transfers, Slice mess and over reliance on transfers is simply not enough reason to complain to begin with, posters will simply need to invent reasons.
Total BS. But it's an absolute certainty that if we suck, you'd still be blindly defending every decision the staff makes.[/quote]
Right like being 12-42 in League play, 3 straight losing seasons, countless transfers, Slice mess and over reliance on transfers is simply not enough reason to complain to begin with, posters will simply need to invent reasons.
Dan V
Well-known member
[quote="redmannorth" post=292831][quote="Dan V" post=292830][quote="fordham96" post=292712]The biggest issue is talent accumulation and depth, period. The idea they are losing games because if in game coaching is nonsense. They need to recruit better, period. Both talent and depth on a more consistent basis. This year clearly is lining up to be best year, but this staff was not hired to be a 1 in 4 year staff. It was to be good every year and to set their sets on competing with Nova for BE titles.
To do that you need players. That is where a solid assistant with grass roots connections can help.[/quote]
Yes its true but you make it sound as if recruiting talented players is all it takes and thats definitely not true in college basketball. Johnny Jones had Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney and a bunch of 4 star guys at LSU and they were terrible. In college you need good coaching you cant just roll the balls out expect to win big, it just doesnt work that way. The best coaches maximize their talent anyway. Brad Stevens went to back to back title games with 3 star or lower ranked players. Even without Stevens Butler still keeps winning with similarly ranked players as SJU.[/quote]
Fordham96 said talent and depth. We had no depth last year. This year we return our three key starters who should all play 30 minutes a game , substitute Keita for Owens and hopefully Figueroa can replace Bashir. Then we have four unproven big east players and Trimble not including Heron. We should be much better as all four new BE players plus Trimble should be able to give us 10 minutes a game. Even without Heron we finally have limited depth.[/quote]
Yes I read his post and my point still stands. Depth while great to have is not neccessary to win in college basketball. Just ask Eric Musselman who knows more about basketball than all 3 of us combined. Not every national champion has had depth. Villanova last year, Duke in '15, Kentucky in '12, UConn in '11, UNC in '09, Kansas in '08, Florida in '07 and '06, UConn in '04, Maryland in '02, etc... all ran 6 or 7 man rotations which is 5 starters and 1 or 2 guys off the bench. The excuses have to stop. Honestly Ponds, Simon, Ahmed, Clark, Owens, Trimble, Yakwe should of been enough for us not to lose 11 big east games in a row last year. Beating Duke and Nova proved that, its not even an argument to be honest just be real. I dont hate Mullin at all really I just want to win. Yeah we should make the dance next year easily (+Heron) and have enough talent to win some games when we get there. Im just worried we will underachieve because of the lack of coaching experience. Its a geniune concern people are not on here complaining for no reason, they've watched enough ball to see that. Its annoying to me when people refuse to address issues because they just want to be happy and not think about things, you know what i call that, being a sheep.
To do that you need players. That is where a solid assistant with grass roots connections can help.[/quote]
Yes its true but you make it sound as if recruiting talented players is all it takes and thats definitely not true in college basketball. Johnny Jones had Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney and a bunch of 4 star guys at LSU and they were terrible. In college you need good coaching you cant just roll the balls out expect to win big, it just doesnt work that way. The best coaches maximize their talent anyway. Brad Stevens went to back to back title games with 3 star or lower ranked players. Even without Stevens Butler still keeps winning with similarly ranked players as SJU.[/quote]
Fordham96 said talent and depth. We had no depth last year. This year we return our three key starters who should all play 30 minutes a game , substitute Keita for Owens and hopefully Figueroa can replace Bashir. Then we have four unproven big east players and Trimble not including Heron. We should be much better as all four new BE players plus Trimble should be able to give us 10 minutes a game. Even without Heron we finally have limited depth.[/quote]
Yes I read his post and my point still stands. Depth while great to have is not neccessary to win in college basketball. Just ask Eric Musselman who knows more about basketball than all 3 of us combined. Not every national champion has had depth. Villanova last year, Duke in '15, Kentucky in '12, UConn in '11, UNC in '09, Kansas in '08, Florida in '07 and '06, UConn in '04, Maryland in '02, etc... all ran 6 or 7 man rotations which is 5 starters and 1 or 2 guys off the bench. The excuses have to stop. Honestly Ponds, Simon, Ahmed, Clark, Owens, Trimble, Yakwe should of been enough for us not to lose 11 big east games in a row last year. Beating Duke and Nova proved that, its not even an argument to be honest just be real. I dont hate Mullin at all really I just want to win. Yeah we should make the dance next year easily (+Heron) and have enough talent to win some games when we get there. Im just worried we will underachieve because of the lack of coaching experience. Its a geniune concern people are not on here complaining for no reason, they've watched enough ball to see that. Its annoying to me when people refuse to address issues because they just want to be happy and not think about things, you know what i call that, being a sheep.
[quote="Dan V" post=292845][quote="redmannorth" post=292831][quote="Dan V" post=292830][quote="fordham96" post=292712]The biggest issue is talent accumulation and depth, period. The idea they are losing games because if in game coaching is nonsense. They need to recruit better, period. Both talent and depth on a more consistent basis. This year clearly is lining up to be best year, but this staff was not hired to be a 1 in 4 year staff. It was to be good every year and to set their sets on competing with Nova for BE titles.
To do that you need players. That is where a solid assistant with grass roots connections can help.[/quote]
Yes its true but you make it sound as if recruiting talented players is all it takes and thats definitely not true in college basketball. Johnny Jones had Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney and a bunch of 4 star guys at LSU and they were terrible. In college you need good coaching you cant just roll the balls out expect to win big, it just doesnt work that way. The best coaches maximize their talent anyway. Brad Stevens went to back to back title games with 3 star or lower ranked players. Even without Stevens Butler still keeps winning with similarly ranked players as SJU.[/quote]
Fordham96 said talent and depth. We had no depth last year. This year we return our three key starters who should all play 30 minutes a game , substitute Keita for Owens and hopefully Figueroa can replace Bashir. Then we have four unproven big east players and Trimble not including Heron. We should be much better as all four new BE players plus Trimble should be able to give us 10 minutes a game. Even without Heron we finally have limited depth.[/quote]
Yes I read his post and my point still stands. Depth while great to have is not neccessary to win in college basketball. Just ask Eric Musselman who knows more about basketball than all 3 of us combined. Not every national champion has had depth. Villanova last year, Duke in '15, Kentucky in '12, UConn in '11, UNC in '09, Kansas in '08, Florida in '07 and '06, UConn in '04, Maryland in '02, etc... all ran 6 or 7 man rotations which is 5 starters and 1 or 2 guys off the bench. The excuses have to stop. Honestly Ponds, Simon, Ahmed, Clark, Owens, Trimble, Yakwe should of been enough for us not to lose 11 big east games in a row last year. Beating Duke and Nova proved that, its not even an argument to be honest just be real. I dont hate Mullin at all really I just want to win. Yeah we should make the dance next year easily (+Heron) and have enough talent to win some games when we get there. Im just worried we will underachieve because of the lack of coaching experience. Its a geniune concern people are not on here complaining for no reason, they've watched enough ball to see that. Its annoying to me when people refuse to address issues because they just want to be happy and not think about things, you know what i call that, being a sheep.[/quote]
That is not my point. Of course coaching matters the point is though the BIGGEST reason the first 3 seasons have turned out the way they have is lack of talent and depth. Period. People think they are 12-42 because he needs a sideline guru, that is nonsense. The single biggest issue with this program has been depth and talent. Cant get to coaching until that is solved ]
To do that you need players. That is where a solid assistant with grass roots connections can help.[/quote]
Yes its true but you make it sound as if recruiting talented players is all it takes and thats definitely not true in college basketball. Johnny Jones had Ben Simmons and Antonio Blakeney and a bunch of 4 star guys at LSU and they were terrible. In college you need good coaching you cant just roll the balls out expect to win big, it just doesnt work that way. The best coaches maximize their talent anyway. Brad Stevens went to back to back title games with 3 star or lower ranked players. Even without Stevens Butler still keeps winning with similarly ranked players as SJU.[/quote]
Fordham96 said talent and depth. We had no depth last year. This year we return our three key starters who should all play 30 minutes a game , substitute Keita for Owens and hopefully Figueroa can replace Bashir. Then we have four unproven big east players and Trimble not including Heron. We should be much better as all four new BE players plus Trimble should be able to give us 10 minutes a game. Even without Heron we finally have limited depth.[/quote]
Yes I read his post and my point still stands. Depth while great to have is not neccessary to win in college basketball. Just ask Eric Musselman who knows more about basketball than all 3 of us combined. Not every national champion has had depth. Villanova last year, Duke in '15, Kentucky in '12, UConn in '11, UNC in '09, Kansas in '08, Florida in '07 and '06, UConn in '04, Maryland in '02, etc... all ran 6 or 7 man rotations which is 5 starters and 1 or 2 guys off the bench. The excuses have to stop. Honestly Ponds, Simon, Ahmed, Clark, Owens, Trimble, Yakwe should of been enough for us not to lose 11 big east games in a row last year. Beating Duke and Nova proved that, its not even an argument to be honest just be real. I dont hate Mullin at all really I just want to win. Yeah we should make the dance next year easily (+Heron) and have enough talent to win some games when we get there. Im just worried we will underachieve because of the lack of coaching experience. Its a geniune concern people are not on here complaining for no reason, they've watched enough ball to see that. Its annoying to me when people refuse to address issues because they just want to be happy and not think about things, you know what i call that, being a sheep.[/quote]
That is not my point. Of course coaching matters the point is though the BIGGEST reason the first 3 seasons have turned out the way they have is lack of talent and depth. Period. People think they are 12-42 because he needs a sideline guru, that is nonsense. The single biggest issue with this program has been depth and talent. Cant get to coaching until that is solved ]
Dan V wrote: Yes I read his post and my point still stands. Depth while great to have is not neccessary to win in college basketball. Just ask Eric Musselman who knows more about basketball than all 3 of us combined. Not every national champion has had depth. Villanova last year, Duke in '15, Kentucky in '12, UConn in '11, UNC in '09, Kansas in '08, Florida in '07 and '06, UConn in '04, Maryland in '02, etc... all ran 6 or 7 man rotations which is 5 starters and 1 or 2 guys off the bench. The excuses have to stop. Honestly Ponds, Simon, Ahmed, Clark, Owens, Trimble, Yakwe should of been enough for us not to lose 11 big east games in a row last year. Beating Duke and Nova proved that, its not even an argument to be honest just be real. I dont hate Mullin at all really I just want to win. Yeah we should make the dance next year easily (+Heron) and have enough talent to win some games when we get there. Im just worried we will underachieve because of the lack of coaching experience. Its a geniune concern people are not on here complaining for no reason, they've watched enough ball to see that. Its annoying to me when people refuse to address issues because they just want to be happy and not think about things, you know what i call that, being a sheep.
Dan, you make a lot of good points in your post, as usual. However, I think the book is still wide open on staff's ability to build a winning program. This year is key.
Dan, you make a lot of good points in your post, as usual. However, I think the book is still wide open on staff's ability to build a winning program. This year is key.