2023-24 Rankings

Jack Williams said:
Interesting that we could be “NET underdogs” in that Hofstra game lol. Should be a fun one
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Pretty surprised Hofstra comes in at 67. They will probably be a decent team this year but not as good as years past so looking at their schedule I dont know how they come in at 67 and us at 75. Its great for us that they are at that spot but I just dont get it. Numbers should be flipped at the very least for us and them.

Plus I have seen them play this year in person and based on my keen observations and in no way shape or form my bias as a st johns fan we should beat them by at least 10 when we play them.
 
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I get all the paperwork but every year exceptions are made to the “facts” that have everyone scratching their heads. SJU obviously needs to take care of business on the court but do not discount the “Pitino is back” factor selection day, the NCAA will crave the associated publicity and story line. No one really cared about him at Iona, not the case at SJU.
 
Eric said:
Pretty surprised Hofstra comes in at 67. They will probably be a decent team this year but not as good as years past so looking at their schedule I dont know how they come in at 67 and us at 75. Its great for us that they are at that spot but I just dont get it. Numbers should be flipped at the very least for us and them.

Plus I have seen them play this year in person and based on my keen observations and in no way shape or form my bias as a st johns fan we should beat them by at least 10 when we play them.
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I agree. Hofstra & SJ both 5-2. 4 losses weigh in approx the same.
but our wins are much better
 
key to remember that whether they're above or below a team in NET doesn't matter much. It's more used as a tool to help evaluate the strength of wins/losses, and SJU looks good, so far, from that perspective.

 
Hardy said:
key to remember that whether they're above or below a team in NET doesn't matter much. It's more used as a tool to help evaluate the strength of wins/losses, and SJU looks good, so far, from that perspective.

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That's good because we played 3 neutral games and won 2 and one on the road.

Also have to realize so much of this will change. Hofstra may be 67 now but a couple of bad losses in the CAA and they will drop quickly. Michigan picks up a few good BIG 10 wins and up they can go.

I agree with many that we have to win out in the remaining Outnof Conference games. The home games against Xavier and Butler will be early barometers. Hopefully we will have Luis for at least the second half of the season.
 
Some NET thoughts:
1. I get it's day 1 and 75 is not an ideal start, but majority of the Big East is in a rough starting position. SJU is 1-1 in Q1 already and has 17 more opportunities as of today in Q1 & Q2 games, massive.
2. North Texas is currently a Q3 W, right on the cusp of Q2 - need to get into top 100
3. Michigan being Q3 L right now is a killer, hopefully that corrects itself and get to top 75
4. West Virginia has a big climb ahead, but get players back. SJU needs them to get into top 135 to become a Q2 W, they are currently 209.
5. This is obvious but St. John's are MASSIVE Utah, North Texas, Dayton, WVu and Michigan fans the rest of the season5. Boston College (96) & Hofstra (67) are currently more important non-con games than perhaps originally estimated.
6. Gotta pray DePaul and Georgetown get something going and bump out of being Q4 games...doesn't seem likely at all for DePaul.
 
AP poll for December 4:

#5 UConn (-1)
#8 Marquette (-5)
#10 Creighton (+5)

#37 Providence (NEW)
#39 Villanova (-21)

Not too far off from the NET. Big East may have a bunch of bubble teams who will need to avoid Georgetown/DePaul losses and pick off one of the top 3. Also plenty of opportunities for Q1 away games, but only a few at home.
 
Figured I'd share this - if anyone is interested I created a document that you can see all the relevant St. John's metrics with the NET out today. You'll see which games fall into which quad, what other teams are doing that are relevant to SJU, and more. Gonna try to update it daily, no promises, but there will be more tabs at the bottom with other metrics to track.

Suggestions welcome

SJU Bracketology Tracker
 
SJUDave said:
Figured I'd share this - if anyone is interested I created a document that you can see all the relevant St. John's metrics with the NET out today. You'll see which games fall into which quad, what other teams are doing that are relevant to SJU, and more. Gonna try to update it daily, no promises, but there will be more tabs at the bottom with other metrics to track.

Suggestions welcome

SJU Bracketology Tracker
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Good stuff. Hoftra should be listed as Hofstra (neutral) but appears you already have them under the correct Q2 category anyways.
 
SJUDave said:
Was talking to someone from the athletics office this morning and was told the UBS games are considered home games for St. John's
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Ugh that sucks, ESPN has it wrong then. As of today it's still Q2 home at least. Must be home because we play other games at UBS as the home team, while only one I think at Barclays (vs. BC).
 
dk423 said:


NCAA should fix this
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Yes exactly, this was something pretty frustrating these past few years since we rarely blew out bad teams. Hoping Holy Cross was a sign of things to come. Sacred Heart game could help our NET if we cover the spread.
 
Knight said:
Too many things that can happen this season and too early to take these metrics seriously.
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I agree but overall NET even at this early point does do a very good job assessing where teams are. Sure there are some outliers, but the 3 Big East teams that deserve to be in the top 10 are all there. Looking over the Big East NET rankings I didn't notice any that seemed too off. I predicted we'd be at #65 but #75 is fair.

The big thing obviously is there's still a ton of season to be played. For St. John's if you took our NET from the first 4 games when we were 2-2 I'm sure our NET would've been 100+.

If you just took it from the last 3 games (Q1 Utah, blowout vs. HC and @ WVU) our NET would probably be close to top 25 territory. For a new team like St. John's the trend is what matters, and we're heading in the right direction.
 
espken said:
Yet another example why analytics does not belong in competitive sports.
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Personally analytics are my favorite aspect of sports, going back to when I read the stats on the back of baseball cards as a kid, but I assume you mean in regards to using analytics to rank NCAA teams.

Just curious, how would you seed the Tournament without analytics? Award the top half Power teams? That'd make the OOC useless, and would penalize conferences that do well OOC. Also how to handle mid major conferences vs. low majors?

I don't think pro sports should use analytics to determine which teams make the playoffs (fortunately they don't), but college is so unique in that you have 350+ teams at all different levels.
 
According to the recent article in the Athletic, Pitino raised $2-$3 million in NIL for this year's team. Pretty impressive for someone who just took the job a few months ago. Have to think he'll make sure we have a good warchest for next season.

St. John’s had multiple collectives established last year, but the money didn’t exactly flow. The school estimated it ranked in the bottom third of the Big East in available NIL money. Then came Pitino. He estimates he’s spoken at or participated in more than 30 NIL fundraisers since taking the job. He set the goal of generating a pool worth roughly $2-3 million in available funds for this year’s team.

It’s now believed St. John’s – a program with only five NCAA Tournament appearances this century – ranks in the top third among Big East brethren in NIL payouts.
 
ADORAZ said:
Personally analytics are my favorite aspect of sports, going back to when I read the stats on the back of baseball cards as a kid, but I assume you mean in regards to using analytics to rank NCAA teams.

Just curious, how would you seed the Tournament without analytics? Award the top half Power teams? That'd make the OOC useless, and would penalize conferences that do well OOC. Also how to handle mid major conferences vs. low majors?

I don't think pro sports should use analytics to determine which teams make the playoffs (fortunately they don't), but college is so unique in that you have 350+ teams at all different levels.
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Same here.

Also the committee does not really use NET to rank the teams per se, instead it’s used to rank teams’ opponents. Without some baseline it would be really hard to objectively gauge which wins are good and which losses are bad. This adds some objectivity to it which is good.

(If ESPNkens point is that predictive metrics should not be used to determine whether a team makes the tournament, I completely agree. It should be based on wins and losses and Net is a tool to help do that.)
 
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