2019 Coaching Changes

[quote="ErickTheRed" post=332429]Martelli and Chiles ASAP[/quote]

Not happening
And No

Rasheen Davis should be a call if we have a spot
 
[quote="ErickTheRed" post=332429]Martelli and Chiles ASAP[/quote]

There aren't many choices that would make me and my fandom walk off into the sunset. Martelli would be one of them.
 
[quote="L J S A" post=332964][quote="ErickTheRed" post=332429]Martelli and Chiles ASAP[/quote]

There aren't many choices that would make me and my fandom walk off into the sunset. Martelli would be one of them.[/quote]
Think they meant as an assistant
 
when fans of the most beloved player in school history BEG for him to step down, what does that tell you?????? Do the right thing. Walk away
 
[quote="cappy105" post=333188]when fans of the most beloved player in school history BEG for him to step down, what does that tell you?????? Do the right thing. Walk away[/quote]

Well said Cap
 
[quote="cappy105" post=333188]when fans of the most beloved player in school history BEG for him to step down, what does that tell you?????? Do the right thing. Walk away[/quote]

That's the thing. Some subs-set of fans on this board may be asking him to do that, but many other fans are not. I took a quick survey of people I know that root for team, and none of them want him gone.
 
[quote="SJ_NYC" post=333190][quote="cappy105" post=333188]when fans of the most beloved player in school history BEG for him to step down, what does that tell you?????? Do the right thing. Walk away[/quote]

That's the thing. Some subs-set of fans on this board may be asking him to do that, but many other fans are not. I took a quick survey of people I know that root for team, and none of them want him gone.[/quote]

Out of those who you questioned, how closely do they follow the team.
Do they follow recruiting?
Do they know the importance of 4 year players and continuity?
Or are they just casual fans who know of SJU, obviously know Mullin, and saw 21-13 undefeated non conference but not close enough to realize it was cupcake city.

As for this site if a poll went up where everyone was only allowed to vote once I think it would safely be in favor of new coach
 
[quote="Moose" post=333191][quote="SJ_NYC" post=333190][quote="cappy105" post=333188]when fans of the most beloved player in school history BEG for him to step down, what does that tell you?????? Do the right thing. Walk away[/quote]

That's the thing. Some subs-set of fans on this board may be asking him to do that, but many other fans are not. I took a quick survey of people I know that root for team, and none of them want him gone.[/quote]

Out of those who you questioned, how closely do they follow the team.
Do they follow recruiting?
Do they know the importance of 4 year players and continuity?
Or are they just casual fans who know of SJU, obviously know Mullin, and saw 21-13 undefeated non conference but not close enough to realize it was cupcake city.

As for this site if a poll went up where everyone was only allowed to vote once I think it would safely be in favor of new coach[/quote]

Well put.
 
After digesting that and getting little sleep...some thoughts:

1. Mullin better be ok with totally revamping staff including getting rid of GSJ and Mitch. Bring in a legit former veteran head coach as an assistant and bring in another recruiter. Say no? Then kindly show him the door. We shouldn't have a money problem with all the attendance this year and we have major donors who will probably help cover any money we have to eat. We have more than people think.

2. On one hand it's so frustrating that Mullin still wants to coach here. Every team has had major issues and we lose more players than we keep. There's also a complete inability to recruit HS kids. You don't think other coaches are bringing up our failures to recruits? There's a reason they aren't coming. On the other hand, I must admit I admire Mullin's never say die attitude and the guy doesn't quit. Any normal coach would probably be heading for the hills after 4 years of this even if it meant leaving millions on the table.

3. I'm concerned it's too little too late even if we make major coaching changes. Matt A may very well be gone and we all knew we needed major changes years ago. Clear red flags have been ignored for years and this is the result. We knew we needed real bigs, we knew we needed better staff, we knew we needed to recruit harder, we knew we needed to develop better. This is what happens after ignoring them. It's like finally going to the doctor after tons of warning signs you ignored and now you're very ill. Prevention is key.

We simply did not get the nice storybook ending we've been seeking for so long. I think the fact that I've really been following closely for 8 years or so (since Lav) allows me to be more objective. Some of you have seen this for the better part of 30. We are a fatally flawed program and we need Cragg to grow a pair and take charge. Put emotions aside and look at results and performance. It was nice to make the tourney, don't get me wrong...but we are fatally flawed as currently constructed.
 
[quote="Moose" post=333191]Out of those who you questioned, how closely do they follow the team.
Do they follow recruiting?
Do they know the importance of 4 year players and continuity?
Or are they just casual fans who know of SJU, obviously know Mullin, and saw 21-13 undefeated non conference but not close enough to realize it was cupcake city.

As for this site if a poll went up where everyone was only allowed to vote once I think it would safely be in favor of new coach[/quote]

Answers:
Do they follow recruiting? Answer: They follow recruiting moderately.
Do they know the importance of 4 year players and continuity? Answer: Absolutely that's what they are most worried about.
As for this site if a poll went up where everyone was only allowed to vote once I think it would safely be in favor of new coach: Answer: Of course. It's the day after a loss, when they played horribly and the team highlighted all their glaring weaknesses.

Here's my take, I'm sure I'll be repeating this over and over in the coming weeks:

1. Changing coach every four years is not the answer. You have to give coach six years or so. I didn't want Lavin to get forced out, and I don't want Mullin out - despite both their obvious deficiencies. And I really though that Lavin was a bozo of a coach. The proof is in the pudding switching coaches often doesn't work. If we switch coaches, the team is screwed.

2. Coaching, is really all about recruiting. Did Bobby Hurley really 'coach' any better last night? No way. He just had some monsters that made it uncomfortable for us to score in the paint. Did Bobby Hurley 'coach' Clark and Heron to go 1-17 from the floor? Did Coach Hurley 'coach' Heron into going 0-3 from the free-throw line, when his team was up by 9 points and seemingly losing all the momentum? No, of course not.

Who is St. John's going to bring in, that is clearly and obviously, and absolutely going to recruit better than Mullin? No one. Recruiting will most likely get worse. And, in four years, when all of you want to fire that new coach, we'll have this exact same conversation.

3. Mullins' small-ball system. I agree with the criticism of that. College players are not good enough for that. Get a couple of big guys in there and incorporate more traditional college basketball play. I believe that this staff can do that. Any staff can do that, if they can recruit.

4. All this arguing is moot. Mullin will come back. The school isn't going pay for two coaches salaries for two years. Especially after the Barry Rohsen fiasco.
 
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[quote="SJ_NYC" post=333197][quote="Moose" post=333191]Out of those who you questioned, how closely do they follow the team.
Do they follow recruiting?
Do they know the importance of 4 year players and continuity?
Or are they just casual fans who know of SJU, obviously know Mullin, and saw 21-13 undefeated non conference but not close enough to realize it was cupcake city.

As for this site if a poll went up where everyone was only allowed to vote once I think it would safely be in favor of new coach[/quote]

Answers:
Do they follow recruiting? Answer: They follow recruiting moderately.
Do they know the importance of 4 year players and continuity? Answer: Absolutely that's what they are most worried about.
As for this site if a poll went up where everyone was only allowed to vote once I think it would safely be in favor of new coach: Answer: Of course. It's the day after a loss, when they played horribly and the team highlighted all their glaring weaknesses.

Here's my take, I'm sure I'll be repeating this over and over in the coming weeks:

1. Changing coach every four years is not the answer. You have to give coach six years or so. I didn't want Lavin to get forced out, and I don't want Mullin out - despite both their obvious deficiencies. And I really though that Lavin was a bozo of a coach. The proof is in the pudding switching coaches often doesn't work. If we switch coaches, the team is screwed.

2. Coaching, is really all about recruiting. Did Bobby Hurley really 'coach' any better last night? No way. He just had some monsters that made it uncomfortable for us to score in the paint. Did Bobby Hurley 'coach' Clark and Heron to go 1-17 from the floor? Did Coach Hurley 'coach' Heron into going 0-3 from the free-throw line, when his team was up by 9 points and seemingly losing all the momentum? No, of course not.

Who is St. John's going to bring in, that is clearly and obviously, and absolutely going to recruit better than Mullin? No one. Recruiting will most likely get worse. And, in four years, when all of you want to fire that new coach, we'll have this exact same conversation.

3. Mullins' small-ball system. I agree with the criticism of that. College players are not good enough for that. Get a couple of big guys in there and incorporate more traditional college basketball play. I believe that this staff can do that. Any staff can do that, as they can recruit.

4. All this arguing is moot. Mullin will come back. The school isn't going pay for two coaches salaries for two years. Especially after the Barry Rohsen fiasco.[/quote]

I don't think the immediacy of the poll has anything to do with it. More passing days mean more people jump off the bandwagon. A poll in May isn't going to change matters.

1. Someone who is a better researcher than me might be able to find the data but 4-5 years is likely the sweet spot for coaching changes. Especially at a power conference level. Of course a Belmont you can have a coach for 30 years. Doesn't happen at Big 6.

2. Coaching is more so about recruiting players who can play and need minimal coaching. So I am kind of agreeing with what you're saying. However nobody on the court last night was able to lead on the court. Again onus falls on staff for assembling the roster.

4. Paying two coaches. There are alums who are willing to pay. But in the past they have paid and they don't get input. No I'm not saying they want to hand pick the coach. They just want a seat at the table after buyout after buyout. With a coach like Mullin who you would assume would continue to be part of the SJU family it can be worked out mutually similar to Lavin which wasn't a flat pay you everything we owe you. Not all guys are mercenaries. So its not and won't be a factor in that regard.
 
The only way you can cover up major coaching deficiencies is if you can land McDonald's All-Americans who are turn-key ready to go with lots of skill already. Not only are we not getting this level of recruit, we cannot even get any major HS recruits except for Tabor and he's not signed yet with plenty of time for other teams to negatively recruit us. So when you mix poor recruiting with poor coaching, this is what the result will always be. Recruiting is only a replacement for coaching if it's a top 10 level recruit. So recruiting isn't the end all be all after that.

Despite common belief, it does not always take 5-6 years to rebuild a program. Next it will be 7-8 or 8-9. Hurley came to ASU and won at least 15 games his first 2 seasons and immediately after that they were winning 20+, going to tournaments, getting ranked even as high as 3rd, winning double digit games in conference play, etc. His team is still finding its way...they are a very young and inexperienced team. If Mullin led us to the tourney, a ranking, 12 conf wins, and a tourney win with several freshmen and sophs in key roles, some here would be arranging a parade down 5th Ave. So let's be consistent here. Hurley turned them around in 2 yrs and they will only get better.
 
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True that Hoiberg to Nebraska if done, as the western world seems to believe, won’t unfold for a few weeks when they lose in NIT. Should they win, Miles deserves a chance to be back, but doubt in this world of instant gratification, that hapoens.

Have to believe, with all the recent internet and rumor smoke, Matt will join Hoiberg’s staff. If he sees greener pastures, so be it. The short term problem will be transfer target, and recruit fallout as a result. We’ll see soon enough. Hopefully CM, if Matt does opt out, hires two recruiters with AAU and NY/NJ contacts.
 
I think it all comes down to Mullin's willingness to adjust his style of coaching. As it was pointed out on one of the broadcasts last night, Mullin runs a very free range offense, and puts A LOT of trust in his players to make the good, smart basketball play(which is surprising considering the offense he ran while he played). That approach simply won't work in college. At this level, the players simply aren't good enough to play that style. They need some type of organization and structure. I would give him one more year to see if he makes the proper philosophy changes. Even though we will more than likely have a worse record next year, if there is progress being made as far as it relates to style of play and organization, then you keep him. If his stubbornness will not allow him change his thinking and approach, then it will be time for the program to move on.

And if we lose Matt A to Nebraska, then we need to find the best recruiter possible, no matter where he is from. I don't buy into the belief that they have to have local NY/NJ ties. I want the best players we can get, regardless of where they are from. If the best players happen to be local, then that's great. What I don't want to happen is to feel such a need to have a roster filled with local kids that we end up with a bunch of players that are average/decent at best. Just my two cents though....
 
Per Pete Thamel
Sources: Washington and coach Mike Hopkins have agreed to a new 6-year contract. Hopkins won Pac-12 Coach of the Year his first two seasons in Seattle.
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=333211]True that Hoiberg to Nebraska if done, as the western world seems to believe, won’t unfold for a few weeks when they lose in NIT. Should they win, Miles deserves a chance to be back, but doubt in this world of instant gratification, that hapoens.

Have to believe, with all the recent internet and rumor smoke, Matt will join Hoiberg’s staff. If he sees greener pastures, so be it. The short term problem will be transfer target, and recruit fallout as a result. We’ll see soon enough. Hopefully CM, if Matt does opt out, hires two recruiters with AAU and NY/NJ contacts.[/quote]

What would the off season be without this question, any way we revisit the possibility of bringing in Mike Rice since he meets that criteria?
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=333211]True that Hoiberg to Nebraska if done, as the western world seems to believe, won’t unfold for a few weeks when they lose in NIT. Should they win, Miles deserves a chance to be back, but doubt in this world of instant gratification, that hapoens.

Have to believe, with all the recent internet and rumor smoke, Matt will join Hoiberg’s staff. If he sees greener pastures, so be it. The short term problem will be transfer target, and recruit fallout as a result. We’ll see soon enough. Hopefully CM, if Matt does opt out, hires two recruiters with AAU and NY/NJ contacts.[/quote]

I would hope that if Matt A is indeed leaving he has already given Mullin a heads up so he react right away. I would think if we are changing staffs we want to get that done as soon as possible as the transfer market is starting to heat up.

I really trust Cragg that he is going to push the right buttons going forward.
 
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