2018/19 Schedule

[quote="MJDinkins" post=292627][quote="Room112" post=292626] not quite making sense.[/quote]Ok let me get this straight. I was just told nobody expects us to land 5 star players, and we should aim lower. Now I'm being told we should continue to pursue 5 star players because we made the top of their list. So which is it? You don't make the top of the list without spending time pursuing them....[/quote]

I always said, we should pursue those type of players if the staff feels they have a shot.

You're just attempting to move the goalposts from where I sit. You initially said (paraphrased), "Some fans have unrealistic expectations by thinking we can land 5-star talent.... This isn't 1998."

I responded by saying, I can't recall anyone actually seriously believing (or harping) on us landing 5-star kids. The only kid anyone felt we had a shot with was with Cockburn. Then you mentioned Achiuwa, and us being in his top 2. No one has really been talking about him on the forum lately. Even then, being in his top 2 squashes your logic of it being "unrealistic" for us to land 5-star talent. No, he hasn't committed, but top 2 gives us just as good of a chance than UConn.

Simply put, no one has been seriously pining or truly believe we're going to land any of these kids. More so, it's been hoping than believing it'll truly materialize. If we do, then great! You created the "unrealistic expectations" argument and now seem to be backpedaling into some other strawman.[/quote]

We're obviously not seeing eye to eye on this discussion so I'm not going to continue responding. And FYI my comments to start were on the fan base as a whole. Not just you until you chimed in.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=292629][quote="NCJohnnie" post=292628]MJDinkins wrote: Then, they spun their wheels for the next four years, and Wright was starting to catch flak from the natives. Basically, they looked like they were going the way of Georgetown after their 2007 Final Four appearance.

I also think getting to the level of other successful conference foes are also currently realistic. But that doesn't also mean we can't ever get to the level of Villanova. It's about leadership, as mentioned by otis, and what a few other posters have been stating for the past few months or years.

MJ, we are not disagreeing except maybe around the edges. But I do think combination of commuter school rep and less than elite academics makes it ore challenging for us versus some of the bluebloods/consistent top 10 programs.[/quote]

Commuter.... I may give you that one. Less than elite academics.... I can name several programs in basketball and football who is on that level academically, and does well similarly to I can name schools who are good-to-great academically, but suck or mediocre in those sports.[/quote]

You are correct Dink! Louisville isn't on St. John's level academically and is an elite program. UNLV certainly isn't either and it's a big commuter school. That we are in NYC should be a big draw for out of town kids but only Lavin and Jarvis tapped into that draw with out of town talent. The irony is that most of the current squad is from outside the NY area but we haven't gotten the top targets for failure to close. Let's see what we do this year with such an abundance of talented recruiting targets.
 
I posted a while back that it was quite possible to fan on all prime 19 targets, but I will wait to see what the two signing periods bring. Can’t be anything but appreciative for Matt playing transfer game so well, but everyone seemed to agree that 18 and 19 recruiting success were key to getting the program on a plane for continued success.

2018 was ordinary imo and if 2019 plays out in similar fashion, it is fair to be disappointed. Let’s see what happens. To be fair, as good as Matt has been with transfers, it seems unrealistic to expect him to keep pulling rabbits out of the hat and filling gaps.

Providence has done a great job identifying less than elite kids and developing them, often over four years. To me that is something to aspire to. Dancing five years in a row works for me as well. Hopefully staff in year four begins to achieve similar results. The Herons, Simons of the world can’t fall into your lap indefinitely. Looking forward to a solid season and perhaps 19 recruiting surprises
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=292598][quote="Mean Gene" post=292585][quote="Adam" post=292575]Earlier in this thread I compared next year's schedule with Georgetown's from last year. Literally the worst for any P6 team in decades. Ours is better, but not by much.

Here's another gem: Kansas St had by far the worst OOC of any Tournament team last year.
OOC Record: 11-2
OOC RPI: 137
OOC SOS: 327
OOC Opponent's Average RPI: 201

KSU finished 11-9 in the best conference (B12) and had a B12 Tournament win as well. They were a 9 seed with a 54 RPI.

The average OOC opponent's RPI for SJU next year would be 211 (based on how they performed this year- remember KSU's was 201). Meaning our OOC SOS will likely be WORSE than 327. If we go 11-2, that could mean an OOC RPI around 150. We may have to go around 13-5 in the Big East then in order to get a Top 50 RPI, since it won't be the #1 conference like the B12 was this year. And for what? To play in the 8/9 game?

This is honestly infuriating.[/quote]

Adam, you are correct. We have to go 13-5 or 14-4 in the Big East with the type of OOC schedule that we have. If Heron is eligible this team could definitely achieve that. I also think that a team like Temple is going to be much better than people think this year. so hopefully our OOC schedule gets a boost from Temple and maybe one other opponent having a better season than thought. Also, if we finish 13-5 or 14-4 in conference then we should be able to win the Big East Tournament on our home floor if we have that good a season. I agree, it's infuriating to be in this position but it's where we are so this is what we have to root for.[/quote]

I'm noticing you continue to say "if Heron is eligible," then we should be able to do such and such. What if he isn't granted eligibility?

If we finish with 13 or 14 conference wins, it doesn't automatically mean we're going to win the Big East tournament. One would assume we'd give ourselves a great chance of doing so, but doesn't necessarily mean we would.[/quote]

Dink, I keep saying if Heron is eligible because if we have a player of his caliber it will enable this team to play at another level. Without him , we are a bubble NCAA Tournament team and probably don’t make the tournament based on our OOC schedule.

I agree , even if we finish 13-5 or 14-4 in conference it doesn’t mean that we will win the Big East Tournament. My thinking though is that, if we play well enough to finish with that type of record in conference, then winning the Big East Tournament on our home floor is not out of the realm of possibility. Does it mean they will win it, not at all.
 
[quote="Mean Gene" post=292634][quote="MJDinkins" post=292598][quote="Mean Gene" post=292585][quote="Adam" post=292575]Earlier in this thread I compared next year's schedule with Georgetown's from last year. Literally the worst for any P6 team in decades. Ours is better, but not by much.

Here's another gem: Kansas St had by far the worst OOC of any Tournament team last year.
OOC Record: 11-2
OOC RPI: 137
OOC SOS: 327
OOC Opponent's Average RPI: 201

KSU finished 11-9 in the best conference (B12) and had a B12 Tournament win as well. They were a 9 seed with a 54 RPI.

The average OOC opponent's RPI for SJU next year would be 211 (based on how they performed this year- remember KSU's was 201). Meaning our OOC SOS will likely be WORSE than 327. If we go 11-2, that could mean an OOC RPI around 150. We may have to go around 13-5 in the Big East then in order to get a Top 50 RPI, since it won't be the #1 conference like the B12 was this year. And for what? To play in the 8/9 game?

This is honestly infuriating.[/quote]

Adam, you are correct. We have to go 13-5 or 14-4 in the Big East with the type of OOC schedule that we have. If Heron is eligible this team could definitely achieve that. I also think that a team like Temple is going to be much better than people think this year. so hopefully our OOC schedule gets a boost from Temple and maybe one other opponent having a better season than thought. Also, if we finish 13-5 or 14-4 in conference then we should be able to win the Big East Tournament on our home floor if we have that good a season. I agree, it's infuriating to be in this position but it's where we are so this is what we have to root for.[/quote]

I'm noticing you continue to say "if Heron is eligible," then we should be able to do such and such. What if he isn't granted eligibility?

If we finish with 13 or 14 conference wins, it doesn't automatically mean we're going to win the Big East tournament. One would assume we'd give ourselves a great chance of doing so, but doesn't necessarily mean we would.[/quote]

Dink, I keep saying if Heron is eligible because if we have a player of his caliber it will enable this team to play at another level. Without him , we are a bubble NCAA Tournament team and probably don’t make the tournament based on our OOC schedule.

I agree , even if we finish 13-5 or 14-4 in conference it doesn’t mean that we will win the Big East Tournament. My thinking though is that, if we play well enough to finish with that type of record in conference, then winning the Big East Tournament on our home floor is not out of the realm of possibility. Does it mean they will win it, not at all.[/quote]

Okay. I gotcha!

I, too, hope he's eligible. Can't ever have enough solid contributors. I see you sense we'll be in for the NIT without Heron, huh? Based on what you stated, then this won't be a happy forum.

Personally, whether Heron is eligible or not.... This should still be a tournament team. It's time to take the next step.
 
Class of 72 wrote: Commuter.... I may give you that one. Less than elite academics.... I can name several programs in basketball and football who is on that level academically, and does well similarly to I can name schools who are good-to-great academically, but suck or mediocre in those sports.


You are correct Dink! Louisville isn't on St. John's level academically and is an elite program. UNLV certainly isn't either and it's a big commuter school. That we are in NYC should be a big draw for out of town kids but only Lavin and Jarvis tapped into that draw with out of town talent. The irony is that most of the current squad is from outside the NY area but we haven't gotten the top targets for failure to close. Let's see what we do this year with such an abundance of talented recruiting targets.


Yes, guys, of course there are schools that aren't academically top rung that succeed in basketball consistently (football is a different world entirely). However, most of those schools are not relatively small Catholic colleges with nice campuses to go away to, but very large universities with huge sports budgets, such as the Louisvilles, Kentuckys, Ohio States, Michigan States etc. My point was that SJU is viewed as a commuter school (not a plus), is not academically elite like other successful smaller schools such as Villanova, Duke and Georgetown nor does it have a huge budget such as the major public universities. This very clearly puts us at a disadvantage. There are exceptions such as Gonzaga (although it is not a commuter school). UNLV, while it had a great year last year, is most certainly not up in the same class as the Dukes, Kansas, Novas, UNCs and Michigan States of the world. As I said in my original post, we can and should compete with Providence, Marquette, Hall, Butler & Xavier. If we get there, most of us here will be very pleased. Just my opinion, respect different ones.
 
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Most of these high level recruits don't even want to go to college now we're worried about being good enough of an academic school? :huh:
 
Bamafan wrote: Most of these high level recruits don't even want to go to college now we're worried about being good enough of an academic school?

bamafan, there are admittedly some who would prefer to skip college, but more and more of these top players (Heron, Igheion & Ledlum are prime examples) are excellent students and the academic reputation of the college is a factor, even if not the determining factor.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=292635][quote="Mean Gene" post=292634][quote="MJDinkins" post=292598][quote="Mean Gene" post=292585][quote="Adam" post=292575]Earlier in this thread I compared next year's schedule with Georgetown's from last year. Literally the worst for any P6 team in decades. Ours is better, but not by much.

Here's another gem: Kansas St had by far the worst OOC of any Tournament team last year.
OOC Record: 11-2
OOC RPI: 137
OOC SOS: 327
OOC Opponent's Average RPI: 201

KSU finished 11-9 in the best conference (B12) and had a B12 Tournament win as well. They were a 9 seed with a 54 RPI.

The average OOC opponent's RPI for SJU next year would be 211 (based on how they performed this year- remember KSU's was 201). Meaning our OOC SOS will likely be WORSE than 327. If we go 11-2, that could mean an OOC RPI around 150. We may have to go around 13-5 in the Big East then in order to get a Top 50 RPI, since it won't be the #1 conference like the B12 was this year. And for what? To play in the 8/9 game?

This is honestly infuriating.[/quote]

Adam, you are correct. We have to go 13-5 or 14-4 in the Big East with the type of OOC schedule that we have. If Heron is eligible this team could definitely achieve that. I also think that a team like Temple is going to be much better than people think this year. so hopefully our OOC schedule gets a boost from Temple and maybe one other opponent having a better season than thought. Also, if we finish 13-5 or 14-4 in conference then we should be able to win the Big East Tournament on our home floor if we have that good a season. I agree, it's infuriating to be in this position but it's where we are so this is what we have to root for.[/quote]

I'm noticing you continue to say "if Heron is eligible," then we should be able to do such and such. What if he isn't granted eligibility?

If we finish with 13 or 14 conference wins, it doesn't automatically mean we're going to win the Big East tournament. One would assume we'd give ourselves a great chance of doing so, but doesn't necessarily mean we would.[/quote]

Dink, I keep saying if Heron is eligible because if we have a player of his caliber it will enable this team to play at another level. Without him , we are a bubble NCAA Tournament team and probably don’t make the tournament based on our OOC schedule.

I agree , even if we finish 13-5 or 14-4 in conference it doesn’t mean that we will win the Big East Tournament. My thinking though is that, if we play well enough to finish with that type of record in conference, then winning the Big East Tournament on our home floor is not out of the realm of possibility. Does it mean they will win it, not at all.[/quote]

Okay. I gotcha!

I, too, hope he's eligible. Can't ever have enough solid contributors. I see you sense we'll be in for the NIT without Heron, huh? Based on what you stated, then this won't be a happy forum.

Personally, whether Heron is eligible or not.... This should still be a tournament team. It's time to take the next step.[/quote]

This is not a tournament team without Heron. And that's unacceptable. And by the way, anyone who thinks Heron will be cleared to play this year is waiting on a pipe dream.
 
[quote="MarkRedman" post=292644]This should be a tournament team with or without Heron[/quote]

Mark, except for 4 players, everyone else is new to the team and even those that practiced will have to break into the lineup. Without Heron this team is good but not a sure bet to make the tourney. A lot of x factors involved including the coaching structure.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=292648][quote="MarkRedman" post=292644]This should be a tournament team with or without Heron[/quote]

Mark, except for 4 players, everyone else is new to the team and even those that practiced will have to break into the lineup. Without Heron this team is good but not a sure bet to make the tourney. A lot of x factors involved including the coaching structure.[/quote] 3 of the 4 returning were the top 2 players and the 4th best player

A lot of moving parts with the others but it's not like it's all freshman coming in

NCAA or bust. Its time
 
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[quote="mjmaherjr" post=292649][quote="Class of 72" post=292648][quote="MarkRedman" post=292644]This should be a tournament team with or without Heron[/quote]

Mark, except for 4 players, everyone else is new to the team and even those that practiced will have to break into the lineup. Without Heron this team is good but not a sure bet to make the tourney. A lot of x factors involved including the coaching structure.[/quote] 3 of the 4 returning were the top 2 players and the 4th best player

A lot of moving parts with the others but it's not like it's all freshman coming in

NCAA or bust. Its time[/quote]
Motto this season should be NO MORE EXCUSES!
 
[quote="bamafan" post=292650][quote="mjmaherjr" post=292649][quote="Class of 72" post=292648][quote="MarkRedman" post=292644]This should be a tournament team with or without Heron[/quote]

Mark, except for 4 players, everyone else is new to the team and even those that practiced will have to break into the lineup. Without Heron this team is good but not a sure bet to make the tourney. A lot of x factors involved including the coaching structure.[/quote] 3 of the 4 returning were the top 2 players and the 4th best player

A lot of moving parts with the others but it's not like it's all freshman coming in

NCAA or bust. Its time[/quote]
Motto this season should be NO MORE EXCUSES![/quote]

Yeah this "we have so many new players" excuse has reached its shelf life. That's just college basketball, there is a ton of turnover all over the place every year now. Time to buck up.
 
To those who believe we should just adjust to what we are (a basement dweller), how long have you been following this program? I wanted Lavin out but he also got us ranked up to 15th as recently as 2015, got us ranked in 2011, and a few tourney berths. The problem with him was that when we made the tourney it was by the skin of our teeth and we would always exit immediately it seemed in tournaments. He did well objectively but our talent was supposed to produce more than what he got and he couldn't develop players so he was fired.

My point is that we are not locked into being in the basement. We CAN and HAVE been better. As with your beloved Mets, it starts at the top and coaching plays a huge role. We are a train with no conductor. Our AD's change like women change clothes before going out on a Saturday night. We have players jumping ship, and others committing and decommitting. We have 1 recruiter when everyone else has 2. We have 1 assistant coach who by all accounts does nothing but collect a paycheck. We have a head coach who is an NBA HOFer, but he is not front and center and is away a ton. And apparently when things are clearly broken, he refuses to fix them. Instead of fixing the kinks he doubles down apparently. This is the 3rd year of that...2 straight years of not getting a clear need in a grad big transfer and now 1 year we clearly needed a new assistant (Rice) which is now apparently not likely to happen. We have Slice come and leave shortly after, collecting a huge paycheck from us.

We have a lot to be justifiably frustrated about and it's possible to still be excited for this season but also be very concerned about our foundation/administration. Mullin is wasting several years of one of our best players to ever come to SJ (Ponds) with his stubbornness to fix what is broken and after ALL of that, we see the OOC schedule which forces us to be nearly perfect all season to not sweat on selection Sunday. We can be better guys...I'm not talking about 1985 or 2000...we've had recent success in mini spurts, we just can't get continuity because our administration and coaches have let us down.
 
[quote="fun" post=292625][quote="Manhattan1" post=292616]If I remember our old head coach made the tournament 2 out of 5 years and Post Season 4 out of 5.[/quote]

Do you remember how many post season games he won?[/quote]

Yes, 1 NIT Game.

Still take that over what we got now!
 
[quote="Manhattan1" post=292656][quote="fun" post=292625][quote="Manhattan1" post=292616]If I remember our old head coach made the tournament 2 out of 5 years and Post Season 4 out of 5.[/quote]

Do you remember how many post season games he won?[/quote]

Yes, 1 NIT Game.

Still take that over what we got now![/quote]

[attachment=327]George-Carlin-–-Never-argue-with-an-idiot.-They-will-only-bring-you-down...-660x330.jpg[/attachment]
 
If we are on the bubble come Selection Sunday, then I hope it comes down to us vs. Northwestern for the last spot. If their non-conference schedule is better then ours, it's not by much, and I still think the Big East will be stronger then the Big 10 this year.

https://nusports.com/schedule.aspx?path=mbball
 
[quote="Andrew" post=292658][URL][URL]https://www.nytimes.com/1984/12/23/sports/st-john-s-trounces-ucla.html[/URL][/URL]

I remember going to this game with my brother during the early part of the Final Four season. I wish we had scheduled a matchup against a power program this season.[/quote]

Technically #244 Cal is a "power" program, so there's your big time home power matchup.

Don't forget about the MSG headliner against #190 Princeton. They're not a "power" program, or even average by D1 standards, but they're not as bad as the majority of our schedule at least.
 
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