Zach Brown Arrested Again
- Thread starter paultzman
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Class of 72
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Hopefully Chris and Matt return to the formula of recruiting players of both skill and character rather than the character this kid was and always will be since his kleptomania is a severe impulse control disorder that gives him that irresistible urge to steal, even with obvious security cameras on him.
I think of all the students at St. John's that could have been victimized by this character. God only knows how many times Zach was not caught as a kid but obviously needs meds and stricter supervision to control his devious side.
Class of 72
Active member
Climb into his skin...like this guy?
:furious:
After my fifty years plus dealing with behavioral health, it's always refreshing to find someone who can do a diagnostic workup without meeting the patient. As one of my mentors noted "There is evil in the world." Sometimes it even gets visited upon the children, no matter how big they are.
After my fifty years plus dealing with behavioral health, it's always refreshing to find someone who can do a diagnostic workup without meeting the patient. As one of my mentors noted "There is evil in the world." Sometimes it even gets visited upon the children, no matter how big they are.
Nice observation Fuchsia - now how to balance sympathy for his brutal childhood experiences and setting limits on what we will tolerate in his behavior
Some will lean
One way or the other...I'm " caught" in the middle
All the best!
Not sure what you'd expect SJU to do here when the kid is 1,300 miles away.
Only so much can be done via, phone calls, texts and a few check in visits.
We took a chance, got burned but at least early before he was enrolled.
Only so much can be done via, phone calls, texts and a few check in visits.
We took a chance, got burned but at least early before he was enrolled.
Basketball or a basketball scholarship does not answer the questions being asked by his behavior. The trouble with childhood trauma is that no matter what follows the scars are there and may manifest in self-destructive behavior and other problems. (V. Felitti of UCSanDiego is the lead researcher of the ACES studies for anyone who wants to delve.) STJ's proudest moment in this regard seemed to be the graduation of Rob Thomas. Young people who are breaking the law put themselves beyond the reach of institutions that do not have capacity to deal with repeat offenses.
Class of 72
Active member
Fuchsia, I am not a therapist. I just play one on redmen.com.
I appreciate your experience dealing with mental health issues over 50 years but to quote Bob Dylan "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows".
I was 100 % with giving Zach a second or was it third chance after the arrest for armed robbery, the assault of fellow basketball player in Connecticut but his third strike with the insane on camera theft was so egregious that even an amateur Sigmund Fckn Freud like me with only 30 years of dealing with students can deduce that St. John's, its students and its current young players did not need this "negative" influence.
Most here have been following St. John's long enough to know that the last thing that needed repeating were the questionable recruiting practices of the recent past or at least the post Carnesecca era. Nothing good has ever resulted from recruiting the likes talented but troubled players at St. John's. We have had one too many Grady Reynolds, James Felton, Willie Shaw, Nurideen Lindsey, Rasheed Jordan and a few others to trivialize the potential problems surrounding a Zach Brown.
Fuchsia, I am not a therapist. I just play one on redmen.com.
I appreciate your experience dealing with mental health issues over 50 years but to quote Bob Dylan "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows".
I was 100 % with giving Zach a second or was it third chance after the arrest for armed robbery, the assault of fellow basketball player in Connecticut but his third strike with the insane on camera theft was so egregious that even an amateur Sigmund Fckn Freud like me with only 30 years of dealing with students can deduce that St. John's, its students and its current young players did not need this "negative" influence.
Most here have been following St. John's long enough to know that the last thing that needed repeating were the questionable recruiting practices of the recent past or at least the post Carnesecca era. Nothing good has ever resulted from recruiting the likes talented but troubled players at St. John's. We have had one too many Grady Reynolds, James Felton, Willie Shaw, Nurideen Lindsey, Rasheed Jordan and a few others to trivialize the potential problems surrounding a Zach Brown.
I think we all agree with your conclusion and your first sentence made your point well. He obviously is a troubled soul and only the good lord knows whether his problems stem from genetics or his background or some combination. However I think you went a little too far with kleptoma and meds.
Had you stopped after your first sentence it would have been a good post.
Class of 72
Active member
Fuchsia, I am not a therapist. I just play one on redmen.com.
I appreciate your experience dealing with mental health issues over 50 years but to quote Bob Dylan "you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows".
I was 100 % with giving Zach a second or was it third chance after the arrest for armed robbery, the assault of fellow basketball player in Connecticut but his third strike with the insane on camera theft was so egregious that even an amateur Sigmund Fckn Freud like me with only 30 years of dealing with students can deduce that St. John's, its students and its current young players did not need this "negative" influence.
Most here have been following St. John's long enough to know that the last thing that needed repeating were the questionable recruiting practices of the recent past or at least the post Carnesecca era. Nothing good has ever resulted from recruiting the likes talented but troubled players at St. John's. We have had one too many Grady Reynolds, James Felton, Willie Shaw, Nurideen Lindsey, Rasheed Jordan and a few others to trivialize the potential problems surrounding a Zach Brown.
I think we all agree with your conclusion and your first sentence made your point well. He obviously is a troubled soul and only the good lord knows whether his problems stem from genetics or his background or some combination. However I think you went a little too far with kleptoma and meds.
Had you stopped after your first sentence it would have been a good post.
Appreciate it North. Unfortunately, the irresistible urge to steal falls under the kleptomania category and it is much more common than most people think. Over the course of my illustrious career I witnessed it first hand where those afflicted required both therapy and medication to curb the resistance. Even then, like an alcoholic, the urge is always there under the right "imagined" conditions.
Our colleague Fuchsia used Rob Thomas as an example of a former student-athlete at St. John's as a turnaround success story. That is a, imo, a poor example. Rob was ushered through our public school system in NYC without being diagnosed with a very severe learning disability. That was on top of growing up in utter poverty. Like most inner city kids in his early teens he was exposed to weed but that and truancy were his only behavioral issues, if weed is even an issue anymore. By the time he graduated prep school he was a completely reformed kid and was an inspiration to his fellow student athletes while at St. John's. He wanted to learn and uses his life experiences now to help other inner city kids.
The only similarity Zach Brown had with Rob was the inner city poverty. Zach, according to available information, is high functioning with an above average I.Q. who could have reclassified while in Connecticut prep school and who had a B average before that.
The diservice in the comparison is that Rob, with his learning disabilities, Rob was never arrested once or twice and never had any other behavioral problems while in school.
We all wish Zach well and I think we all hoped he would turn his life around but the sad reality is he went back to the environment that fostered his situation.
St. John's, its basketball staff and we fans should not have to be put into the position of desperation recruiting. The students taking out loans to pay for their education deserve better company for college.
Kleptomania can also be a symptom of a larger situation, for example it is quite prevalent in those suffering from fetal alcohol syndrome. As I recall Brown's mom had issues very early on though I have no idea if he's been diagnosed with anything similar.
To hold all the people with treatable psychiatric disorders who are being thrown away by State government looking to save short term dollars knowing that they won't be around when the bill really comes due on ill people who deteriorate under the so-called care of the Department of Corrections and are true disasters when they finally get out.
beast of the east
Active member
A long rime ago I worked on the upper east side in spanish Harlem. I made many feiends with the blue collar staff which was mostly black and hispanic. Many really great people. I once asked a friend who grew up on 142nd st area if he had ever been arrested or gotten into any trouble whatsoever. His response was simple. "No way. I wasn't agraid of being arrested,but i wss terrified what my father would do to me if a cop ever rang our doorbell. That would be far worse than going to jail"
Kids who grow up without discipline or fathers in the worst neighborhoods have incredible odds to overcome. Be thankful your circumstances were different
Class of 72
Active member
I think most missed 41's intended sarcasm.
In our court system during the pleading phase even murderers and thieves caught in the act are advised to plead NOT GUILTY. All of our lives are filled with extenuating circumstances.
Some more so than others.