Your prediction re: St. John's Win/ loss record is

 It's possible to want the team to do as well as possible but still have a gut feeling they won't be that great. Like I've been saying, let them prove me wrong. I'd love to look like a fool and see them win 25 games and make the sweet 16. Please, by all means!

This is supposed to be a friendly discussion about predicting the season, not some University debate team. It's just hard to see a team jump that far after 1 year. I guess I think a gradual improvement would seem more realistic to me like winning 17 ish this season and 20+ the next.
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I like and enjoy friendly discussions. If you go through the thread, then you can see you've been contradicting and building straw man arguments. If you're gonna debate, then let's have a geniune debate or otherwise I'm gonna call it how I see it (to be frank, other posters have seen it and called you out, as well).

I've already stated, several times, that I have no problem with your opinion of the team. It's your prerogative. OTOH, it does seem like you tend to see things as black and white. There are times when a gray area is involved.

If you believe it's hard to see the team make a jump, then so be it. But, there are many, many occasions where I can list teams who have made the leap. Gradual or incremental improvement isn't always the route taken when teams turn the corner. Not to mention, we are not playing with the same six-man rotation from a season ago. You have to take that into consideration or otherwise it seems disingenuous. Once again, why do you continue to use the word, "great?" I don't believe I've seen one person use that word when it comes to this team.

No one is saying this team is going to be gangbusters. Most optimistic posters are saying 20 (or more) wins and an NCAA Tournament invite. I think a couple of posters have mentioned something about "Sweet 16," but most posters have stayed away from predicting how many games we'll win in the postseason.

Once again, we can touch on this thread in March.  
 
 It's possible to want the team to do as well as possible but still have a gut feeling they won't be that great. Like I've been saying, let them prove me wrong. I'd love to look like a fool and see them win 25 games and make the sweet 16. Please, by all means!

This is supposed to be a friendly discussion about predicting the season, not some University debate team. It's just hard to see a team jump that far after 1 year. I guess I think a gradual improvement would seem more realistic to me like winning 17 ish this season and 20+ the next.
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Joey, Joey, Joey! If we are going to be only 3 or 4 wins better than last year with 5 frosh and no head coach we are all going to be very disappointed here on Redmen. Through the Big East Tourney, this team will win 20+ games! We are not discussing Marist here!
We lost only Harkless and that burned us but Moe was an 8 on the talent level but a 6 on the effort level. As much as he scored for us he disappeared for at least 25% of his minutes last year.
My problem with many SJ fans is they, like the athletic department, have conditioned themselves to think small. In UCLA's worst days of their decline you would never hear "we hope to win 15 games".
Dare to dream Joey! 22 wins and an NCAA invitation is well within reach.
 
 72- Trust me, I really hope so, and believe me I will go to games and bring other students especially if we are looking good. I'm a bigger fan than I think people on here realize and I never intend to be negative even if it seems so. You have to take into consideration a few things to understand my POV. I'm a Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan. All I've known basically all my life in terms of being a fan, is failure. Maybe 1 or 2 legitimately great years for each team in my 23 years on earth. Enter SJ basketball. I was not alive to see the 1985 team, or even older teams in the 50's. Hell, even in 1999-2000 I didn't really follow that close I was only a kid just starting to become a fan of certain teams. So all I've known from SJ is failure as well save for 2011. That's IT. When the most you've ever seen out of SJ is making the tournament and losing in the first round, do you blame me for my opinion? You guys were alive when we were not just good, but elite going to Final Four's and Elite 8's.

Let's just see what happens. And by the way, saying your problem with SJ fans is that they are "conditioned" to think small...who's fault is that?! Almost anywhere in the nation, if you put a good team out there, the fans will come and the hype generated. Conversely if you lay an egg for a while, your program will have a bad taste lingering in the mouths of many fans and less will be expected. Now, we have the good team on paper...the other question is WILL they do it?
 
 72- Trust me, I really hope so, and believe me I will go to games and bring other students especially if we are looking good. I'm a bigger fan than I think people on here realize and I never intend to be negative even if it seems so. You have to take into consideration a few things to understand my POV. I'm a Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan. All I've known basically all my life in terms of being a fan, is failure. Maybe 1 or 2 legitimately great years for each team in my 23 years on earth. Enter SJ basketball. I was not alive to see the 1985 team, or even older teams in the 50's. Hell, even in 1999-2000 I didn't really follow that close I was only a kid just starting to become a fan of certain teams. So all I've known from SJ is failure as well save for 2011. That's IT. When the most you've ever seen out of SJ is making the tournament and losing in the first round, do you blame me for my opinion? You guys were alive when we were not just good, but elite going to Final Four's and Elite 8's.
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  Well this certainly explains Joe3's cautious tone. LOL

I cant say I blame him with the teams he's been stuck rooting for in each sport. Another couple of years of that and he will be writing himself prescriptions for vicodin
 
 72- Trust me, I really hope so, and believe me I will go to games and bring other students especially if we are looking good. I'm a bigger fan than I think people on here realize and I never intend to be negative even if it seems so. You have to take into consideration a few things to understand my POV. I'm a Mets, Jets, Knicks, Islanders fan. All I've known basically all my life in terms of being a fan, is failure. Maybe 1 or 2 legitimately great years for each team in my 23 years on earth. Enter SJ basketball. I was not alive to see the 1985 team, or even older teams in the 50's. Hell, even in 1999-2000 I didn't really follow that close I was only a kid just starting to become a fan of certain teams. So all I've known from SJ is failure as well save for 2011. That's IT. When the most you've ever seen out of SJ is making the tournament and losing in the first round, do you blame me for my opinion? You guys were alive when we were not just good, but elite going to Final Four's and Elite 8's.
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  Well this certainly explains Joe3's cautious tone. LOL

I cant say I blame him with the teams he's been stuck rooting for in each sport. Another couple of years of that and he will be writing himself prescriptions for vicodin
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LOL

I guess he's been shellshocked for far too long. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised this season, Joe3. 
 
Joe can you agree that this team has the talent to be a top 20+. Don't think about the experience. On pure talent do you think they think could win 20+ games?
 
 On pure talent, absolutely...no question. But that's if they play at the level we expect and the returners improve. We have the horses, but there are lots of potholes in a season.
 
 Experience and youth won't be an issue. There are very few if any big time teams returning 5 guys who all played 27 mins per game or more last year. Gelling early might be an issue as will how well the front line performs but with the returning 5 and Orlando veteran style leadership won't.
 
 There are so many problems with playing a 6 man rotation of basically freshman as we did in 2011. The biggest I can think of is that most guys had to play the game of basketball out of their comfort zone. Coach Dunlap had no choice but to ask things of 18 year olds which they weren't fully capable of. Not only do we have the luxury of not having to put the onus on a small group of players, but now we have a full compliment of guys who can play within their bounds. That is such an underrated part of basketball. We had 1 guy who could shoot the 3 ball on our entire team last year in DLo. We had no post presence whatsoever(gods gift will play sparingly this year unless he greatly improved this summer). We had 1 great inside out player in Maurice who has since left us. We had wing players with a very specific set of skills in Amir and Dom.

We lose Maurice who was a good player last year. He by no means was a consistent world beater though and was drafted for his upside. We now have a decent amount of 3 point shooter to compliment Harrison. Orlando, Jakarr, and Jones(may be our best player this year), give us 3 more post players than we had last year. to tie it all together... How can we not improve from 13 wins to 19-21 when we will have more talent and ask so much less of that talent in terms of helping the team win?
 
Not every player will have an off day on the same day. It will help that people like dom can get 6 to 8 points a game and still be a huge factor in the game.
 
 There are so many problems with playing a 6 man rotation of basically freshman as we did in 2011. The biggest I can think of is that most guys had to play the game of basketball out of their comfort zone. Coach Dunlap had no choice but to ask things of 18 year olds which they weren't fully capable of. Not only do we have the luxury of not having to put the onus on a small group of players, but now we have a full compliment of guys who can play within their bounds. That is such an underrated part of basketball. We had 1 guy who could shoot the 3 ball on our entire team last year in DLo. We had no post presence whatsoever(gods gift will play sparingly this year unless he greatly improved this summer). We had 1 great inside out player in Maurice who has since left us. We had wing players with a very specific set of skills in Amir and Dom.

We lose Maurice who was a good player last year. He by no means was a consistent world beater though and was drafted for his upside. We now have a decent amount of 3 point shooter to compliment Harrison. Orlando, Jakarr, and Jones(may be our best player this year), give us 3 more post players than we had last year. to tie it all together... How can we not improve from 13 wins to 19-21 when we will have more talent and ask so much less of that talent in terms of helping the team win?
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Nope, your points make absolutely too much sense...we only win 3 more games than last year :silly:
 
 16-14, marked improvement over last year's 13-19.
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Is it too late for me to amend my prediction?
I must say though that my 16 win prediction is gonna be a lot closer than most other posters.
 
 16-14, marked improvement over last year's 13-19.
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Is it too late for me to amend my prediction?
I must say though that my 16 win prediction is gonna be a lot closer than most other posters.
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Are you sure about that being the case?

I've been watching sports far too long to throw in the towel, per se'. Things can look dark and bleak and suddenly, things change for the better. I'm not saying that is gonna be the case with our bunch, but you never know what may transpire.
 
I said at the beginning of the yr that we would win 18. I think we will beat a team or 2 that were penciled in as a L. I am going with 17-13 reg season. I think we will learn greatly from this lose and move on. we will be a much better team because of this lose. They will learn that you need 40 min of intensity. This is probobly an NIT yr and with possible recruits and Gift next yr i see this as an NCAA team.
 
Next year we will be replacing 2 or 3 players instead of 9 and 6. There will be a lot more stability and fewer guys will be learning everything from scratch. We should be a lot better team and EXPECT to make the NCAAs---even if Harrison and Sampson leave.
 
Next year we will be replacing 2 or 3 players instead of 9 and 6. There will be a lot more stability and fewer guys will be learning everything from scratch. We should be a lot better team and EXPECT to make the NCAAs---even if Harrison and Sampson leave.
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Contrary to popular belief returning players do not ensure a better team. Each player must take it upon himself to work hard at improvement. Do we have those kind of players. Jakarr seems to be one-he even admitted he was deficient at shooting the ball so he worked hard and everyone can see he has a nice J. On the other hand a player I really liked coming in and touted Sir Dom does not look improved at all. So we shall have to wait and see if we improve or not-it is not automatic just because of more experience and older players.
 
Are we going to win 18 games?. You can bet on it! I'm NOT going to bet on it. In our conference we we might be favored in 4 or 5 games going forward. That's not good. Can it be done? Well the new point can develop over the next 3-4 games and maybe we get Orlando and it will improve our situation and we can get better.
I am a realist and after almost 60 years of predicting StJ records with some accuracy, I am sticking with my original 15 wins. At the same time I am hoping that we catch some magic like we did with Coach Lavin's first year. To think of 10 or 12 wins in our conference will require a performance that will excite the nation like Villanova did in the NCAA's in '85 or like we did only a few years ago. It IS quite possible. It's just not that probable.
 
 6 wins.
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Got some chuckles reviewing this thread. I am thinking that my (facetious) prediction is going to be equally as accurate as those who predicted 20 wins.

In other words, the over/under number is 13. I would have expected 15 or 16, but the Sanchez/Gift situation is not helping, and it is clear that the loss of Dunlap is an issue.
 
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