You Paid For College How ?

[Class of 72]

 It's not sarcasm fun man.. It's merely an example showing that without any form of education you could make anything of yourself in the past through hard work and determination. I was taught growing up that if you couldn't make something of yourself in this country you weren't worth jack. That does not apply any longer because working hard does not carry as much weight as it used to... You need luck..you need friends in the right places. P.s. Your wit is obnoxious dial it back a notch and be real old man.

 

LOL! Sirvoo, what is a real old man? 40, 50, 60, or just old as in wearing Depends and foaming at the mouth when you speak?
Working hard "does not carry as much weight as it used to"? I fired at least two dozen squirts like you that had that attitude. No one is arguing that times are hard! But they have been harder! There have been, as Fun pointed out, world wars and atomic bombings, while today we are spending as many trillions of dollars chasing towel heads in the deserts and foothills of the middle east while we cannot protect our own borders.
If you cannot get job, volunteer for something, join the Peace Corps, become a Mormon and go on a two year mission, just do something! No one is starving in America like in Africa, just check your 230lb girlfriends with a tattoo on her arse. As bad as we have it right now in America, Europe has it worse and unless you want to live in Mumbai and live like a king on $500 per month, be patient and keep on truckin because even Jerry Garcia could not argue that Mountain Girl was the best he could do. 

 

[LINY89]

 It's not sarcasm fun man.. It's merely an example showing that without any form of education you could make anything of yourself in the past through hard work and determination. I was taught growing up that if you couldn't make something of yourself in this country you weren't worth jack. That does not apply any longer because working hard does not carry as much weight as it used to... You need luck..you need friends in the right places. P.s. Your wit is obnoxious dial it back a notch and be real old man.

 

LOL! Sirvoo, what is a real old man? 40, 50, 60, or just old as in wearing Depends and foaming at the mouth when you speak?
Working hard "does not carry as much weight as it used to"? I fired at least two dozen squirts like you that had that attitude. No one is arguing that times are hard! But they have been harder! There have been, as Fun pointed out, world wars and atomic bombings, while today we are spending as many trillions of dollars chasing towel heads in the deserts and foothills of the middle east while we cannot protect our own borders.
If you cannot get job, volunteer for something, join the Peace Corps, become a Mormon and go on a two year mission, just do something! No one is starving in America like in Africa, just check your 230lb girlfriends with a tattoo on her arse. As bad as we have it right now in America, Europe has it worse and unless you want to live in Mumbai and live like a king on $500 per month, be patient and keep on truckin because even Jerry Garcia could not argue that Mountain Girl was the best he could do. 

 

More ignorance and arrogance. Good for you...only a sadist POS would brag about firing 24 people. Oh wow you are just so big and powerful you mature old man you! Times have been harder? Yeah...the great depression was harder. That's it. Since then it hasn't been worse. WWI and WWII were never fought on our soil unless you want to consider Hawaii our turf, but it wasn't really a battlefield it was a surprise hit and run. Atomic bombings? I'd love to know when we were bombed with an atomic bomb. Unless we lived in Japan, what you said is not relevant. One thing we can agree on is chasing towel heads in the desert spending trillions...about as stupid as it gets.

Volunteer for something? But I thought you said we need to make money? What the hell does volunteering do? Most people earned their degrees already and are ready to start today...not be some intern or volunteer. Peace Corps? Do you know how many rapes and other crimes have been covered up to date? It's very dangerous and not even worth it. As if your generation would have gone to a 3rd world country instead of getting a real job. So basically all you said is that "it could be worse". Wow. Yeah...in those terms nothing can seem that bad. You are really grasping for straws now. Just stop being a coward and admit these times are the worst since the GD and that getting a job was MUCH easier when you were our age.

 

[fun]

 If Fun's attitude on here is anywhere near consistent with his actual life, then he is the kind of guy who would go to Africa while eating an entire pizza pie in front of a starving village, refuse to give them a slice, and then have the nerve to tell them they didn't "want it bad enough".

 
You suck at analogies.

 

[fun]

Times have been harder? Yeah...the great depression was harder. That's it. Since then it hasn't been worse.

 
In 1982 the unemployment rate was 9.7, higher than any annual rate since the 30s. Betwen 79 and 82 the inflation rate topped off at about 13 percent. Today its below 2 percent. In 1982 the interest was about 13 percent. Today its 3 percent.

I take it you're not a history major.

 

[fun]

And for what it's worth if your grandparents and parents are wealthy it doesn't mean you don't have to work as much as other people. That's a huge misnomer

 

I didn't say you didn't have to work as hard or as much as anyone, and neither did you. You said that having grown up in an upper middle class family in the 21st century and now with a masters degree you have fewer opportunities for success than an illiterate penniless immigrant in the 1950s. The absurdity of that statement is mind boggling.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

FWIW, some may want to consider reading:

The New Geography of Jobs by Enrico Moretti, a professor of Economics at Cal Berkely. 

"In today's economy, it's not necessarily what you do or who you know...It's Where You Live"

 

[ras]

 My son is 27 , a college grad and is underemployed. He works 2 low level jobs, It is remarkable that this post is exactly what he would say. Volunteer work is nice,but it doesnt pay the bills.  Referring to Joes post re, volunteering. 

 

[LINY89]

 Fun is a perfect example of how wit must never be confused with intelligence. We are in the worst times since the GD...not since 1980...since the late 20's early 30's. I take it you were not a reality major. Fun, you really need to tone down your attempt at wit...it must take you 1 hour to respond after perusing a thesaurus and some time to think. You went from being a funny clown to an annoying clown.

You guys think it's all about where you live? Huh? I live in the NYC suburbs like most of you. But this is a national crisis...does anyone ever watch the news and get out from under their rocks anymore?

-Economy worst ever since GD
-Most debt ever and it's so huge it seems fake
-No jobs
-High school diplomas and AS degrees = poverty....BA's = way too common...MA's & Ph.D's = required
-Major outsourcing
-College ranges in price from a new BMW to a new house
-It costs 50 bucks to fill up a 4 cylinder Civic with gas and that's after it went down recently
-We were kids when 9/11 happened and it changed the world with paranoia and fear
-Highest divorce rates ever...50% chance
-Many more single-parent homes
-Our country's money is wasted on chasing men in blankets in the ME
-Wall Street corruption has been brought to the forefront
-Illegal immigration

Tell me again why we have it so easy compared to you...please.  

 

[Class of 72]

 It's not sarcasm fun man.. It's merely an example showing that without any form of education you could make anything of yourself in the past through hard work and determination. I was taught growing up that if you couldn't make something of yourself in this country you weren't worth jack. That does not apply any longer because working hard does not carry as much weight as it used to... You need luck..you need friends in the right places. P.s. Your wit is obnoxious dial it back a notch and be real old man.

 

LOL! Sirvoo, what is a real old man? 40, 50, 60, or just old as in wearing Depends and foaming at the mouth when you speak?
Working hard "does not carry as much weight as it used to"? I fired at least two dozen squirts like you that had that attitude. No one is arguing that times are hard! But they have been harder! There have been, as Fun pointed out, world wars and atomic bombings, while today we are spending as many trillions of dollars chasing towel heads in the deserts and foothills of the middle east while we cannot protect our own borders.
If you cannot get job, volunteer for something, join the Peace Corps, become a Mormon and go on a two year mission, just do something! No one is starving in America like in Africa, just check your 230lb girlfriends with a tattoo on her arse. As bad as we have it right now in America, Europe has it worse and unless you want to live in Mumbai and live like a king on $500 per month, be patient and keep on truckin because even Jerry Garcia could not argue that Mountain Girl was the best he could do. 

 

More ignorance and arrogance. Good for you...only a sadist POS would brag about firing 24 people. Oh wow you are just so big and powerful you mature old man you! Times have been harder? Yeah...the great depression was harder. That's it. Since then it hasn't been worse. WWI and WWII were never fought on our soil unless you want to consider Hawaii our turf, but it wasn't really a battlefield it was a surprise hit and run. Atomic bombings? I'd love to know when we were bombed with an atomic bomb. Unless we lived in Japan, what you said is not relevant. One thing we can agree on is chasing towel heads in the desert spending trillions...about as stupid as it gets.

Volunteer for something? But I thought you said we need to make money? What the hell does volunteering do? Most people earned their degrees already and are ready to start today...not be some intern or volunteer. Peace Corps? Do you know how many rapes and other crimes have been covered up to date? It's very dangerous and not even worth it. As if your generation would have gone to a 3rd world country instead of getting a real job. So basically all you said is that "it could be worse". Wow. Yeah...in those terms nothing can seem that bad. You are really grasping for straws now. Just stop being a coward and admit these times are the worst since the GD and that getting a job was MUCH easier when you were our age.

 

Sadist POS? I have actually been trying to be nice but if I am a sadist, then you must be a masochist because you keep coming back formore! LOL!
Fun pointed out the obvious in that your lack of historical perspective is indicative of your profound ignorance. You trivialize world wars where millions were killed because they were fought on foreign soil?

"As if your generation would have gone to a 3rd world country instead of getting a real job"..........A few here on redmen visited a 3 rd world country called Vietnam......it is that country whe your Calvin Klein tee shirt is made, if that helps you with geography. Something called the draft lottery prevented thousands of college grads from being hired by employers fearing they would waste money in training only to lose them to the draft.

But enough about us old farts.....post some pictures of yourself with those big muscled arms with all the tats while wearing that muscle shirt made in Vietnam. Wink!

 

[MCNPA]

Times have been harder? Yeah...the great depression was harder. That's it. Since then it hasn't been worse.

 
In 1982 the unemployment rate was 9.7, higher than any annual rate since the 30s. Betwen 79 and 82 the inflation rate topped off at about 13 percent. Today its below 2 percent. In 1982 the interest was about 13 percent. Today its 3 percent.

I take it you're not a history major.

 

 Werent savings bonds also paying over 10% then? And if you had enough to buy a house at that time, you were guaranteed to make big money on your "investment". I have great appreciation for the squalor that is prevalent in other societies as well as what older generations went through. This is simply not the "land of opportunity" that it once was and studies show that.

While core inflation is markedly low, it leaves out key categories like fuel and costs that have skyrocketed. Consumer price index is more practical. Housing costs are also several times higher than average salaries, unlike they were a few decades ago.

Just for perspective, my parents and grandparents were those penniless immigrants that you speak of. One side fled Stalin to go on and survive the bombing of Dresden and end up penniless in America. The other side fought off the Russians in the Winter War in Finland. I think they'd still agree with me that it is more difficult now than it was then in many ways, while the world was a tougher place then, they had one saving grace which was "opportunity".

Much harder now to differentiate oneself with degrees. Cant just buy a house and set yourself up for life anymore. No more pensions. Opportunity to make it big is much harder to come by, and back then, even a penniless immigrant could come here, do manual labor and make a good wage and live well. If you had a Bachelors degree in the business world, you were really excelling.

I undstand Fun, both your annoyance with generation Y and younger as well as your disdain for the "woe is me" of guys like Joe3. The is validity in some of it though. Back then, lawyers were almost royalty. Now, getting a law degree guarantees you nothing but huge debt from school loans. New generation and new set of problems, many of which the fixes are more complex than in the past.

 

[LINY89]

 It's not sarcasm fun man.. It's merely an example showing that without any form of education you could make anything of yourself in the past through hard work and determination. I was taught growing up that if you couldn't make something of yourself in this country you weren't worth jack. That does not apply any longer because working hard does not carry as much weight as it used to... You need luck..you need friends in the right places. P.s. Your wit is obnoxious dial it back a notch and be real old man.

 

LOL! Sirvoo, what is a real old man? 40, 50, 60, or just old as in wearing Depends and foaming at the mouth when you speak?
Working hard "does not carry as much weight as it used to"? I fired at least two dozen squirts like you that had that attitude. No one is arguing that times are hard! But they have been harder! There have been, as Fun pointed out, world wars and atomic bombings, while today we are spending as many trillions of dollars chasing towel heads in the deserts and foothills of the middle east while we cannot protect our own borders.
If you cannot get job, volunteer for something, join the Peace Corps, become a Mormon and go on a two year mission, just do something! No one is starving in America like in Africa, just check your 230lb girlfriends with a tattoo on her arse. As bad as we have it right now in America, Europe has it worse and unless you want to live in Mumbai and live like a king on $500 per month, be patient and keep on truckin because even Jerry Garcia could not argue that Mountain Girl was the best he could do. 

 

More ignorance and arrogance. Good for you...only a sadist POS would brag about firing 24 people. Oh wow you are just so big and powerful you mature old man you! Times have been harder? Yeah...the great depression was harder. That's it. Since then it hasn't been worse. WWI and WWII were never fought on our soil unless you want to consider Hawaii our turf, but it wasn't really a battlefield it was a surprise hit and run. Atomic bombings? I'd love to know when we were bombed with an atomic bomb. Unless we lived in Japan, what you said is not relevant. One thing we can agree on is chasing towel heads in the desert spending trillions...about as stupid as it gets.

Volunteer for something? But I thought you said we need to make money? What the hell does volunteering do? Most people earned their degrees already and are ready to start today...not be some intern or volunteer. Peace Corps? Do you know how many rapes and other crimes have been covered up to date? It's very dangerous and not even worth it. As if your generation would have gone to a 3rd world country instead of getting a real job. So basically all you said is that "it could be worse". Wow. Yeah...in those terms nothing can seem that bad. You are really grasping for straws now. Just stop being a coward and admit these times are the worst since the GD and that getting a job was MUCH easier when you were our age.

 

Sadist POS? I have actually been trying to be nice but if I am a sadist, then you must be a masochist because you keep coming back formore! LOL!
Fun pointed out the obvious in that your lack of historical perspective is indicative of your profound ignorance. You trivialize world wars where millions were killed because they were fought on foreign soil?

"As if your generation would have gone to a 3rd world country instead of getting a real job"..........A few here on redmen visited a 3 rd world country called Vietnam......it is that country whe your Calvin Klein tee shirt is made, if that helps you with geography. Something called the draft lottery prevented thousands of college grads from being hired by employers fearing they would waste money in training only to lose them to the draft.

But enough about us old farts.....post some pictures of yourself with those big muscled arms with all the tats while wearing that muscle shirt made in Vietnam. Wink!

 

The fact that you talk about WWI and WWII in the same breath as Iraq and Afghanistan just goes to show how little you know. The world wars were very deadly, but they were at least pretty organized and we knew who the enemy was. See that guy? Shoot him. We win. In the ME it's guerrilla warfare aka hit and run. We don't know who our enemy is anymore...it can be a child, a woman, an Iraqi soldier...anyone. The terrain is totally foreign to us and nothing like Europe which we knew. The terrorism aspect of it just complicates it more...there are so many little cells just plotting to blow our people up both in the ME and here at home. In WWII there was no real threat to our civilians...it was uniforms vs. uniforms. Two totally different things. By the way, you guys were forced to Vietnam...your generation kicked and screamed about the draft remember? So don't act like you guys were willing to go.

Do you want a cookie for doing what you were forced to do? Wake up...the world we live in today is 100% different than the world you knew at my age. Not even close. The funny part is that I can picture one of your family members talking about the "good old days" and "back in my day" with you nodding furiously in agreement. You look pretty ridiculous trying to tell me that it's not harder getting a job and going about everyday life than it was in your day.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

Know a young man who graduated from Duquesne with a degree in Chemistry.

He moved to North Dakota to pay off his massive student loans (nearly $100K).

After 2 yrs., he has made a significant dent in his student loan debt.

Yes, life is tough and frustrating for those in their 20's. I don't disagree and I emphatize with them.

Think, for most, starting collge at a community college may be the best course of action.

Here in NJ (Monmouth County) kid can go to Brookdale CC for a few grand. If you graduate from high school in the top 20% of your high school class it is free.

If they have a "B average" from Brookdale they can transfer to Rutgers and go for free (not including room and board).

To me, going to Monmouth U., or Rider or The Hall, right out of high school. for $40K plus annually (all in) is crazy.

Think a lot of kids take on too much debt to attend an average undergarduate institution and major in something that isn't marketable.

Do feel sorry for kids today.

One my best friends has a son who graduated, as a Psychology major, from Kentucky 2 years ago and is life guarding and working retail. He is seriously thinking about going back to Lexington where he think prospects may be better than N.J.

His brother, by contrast, just received a Doctorate in Physical Theraphy from Seton Hall (he also went to UK as an undergard) and had 6 job offers.

That said, parents and kids need to be more serious about their own due dilligence BEFORE they decide to commit to a particular institution.

IMO, it doesn't make much sense to take outsized loans (at least initially) if you are not attending a so-called "big name" school.

I would also want to make sure that the school I am going into hock for has a great career center and an alumni network that actively looks to place their alma mater's recent grads in good paying jobs.

Kids who are smart, for the most part, will always rise to the top. You can't teach someone to be smart.

It may take longer than normal, but it will happen over time.

To all those who are depressed about their immediate prospects, know that things will get better.

Yes, it may not be this year or next but the economy will eventually turn for the better.

This may not provide much solace at the moment for most, but don't give up hope just yet.

You are much too young and have way too much talent.

Keep the faith !    

 

[LINY89]

 Thank you for the respectable reply. I'm not desperate myself I wanted to make that clear...I am in good position...I have just been defending the fact that things are very different today and much tougher than they were. There are those who could look for the bare minimum to do things...I did not work my butt off in high school to end up in community college. I wanted to go to a school I belonged at with others who were serious about education and going on to grad school...not just sleeping their way to a degree then transferring from CC. I am still very glad I chose a private school for undergrad. In my high school the kids who went on to CC were the ones who were druggies, or idiots who slacked in HS. That's not to knock CC in general...that was just my experience. Everyone chooses different paths. Thanks for the uplifting statements.

 

[johnsliva]

Awsome post JSJ. My last of 4 is a sophmore going to delhi this year. Paying for 4 kids in undergrad is not fun. NYS schoolsa are a comparative bargin and offer a very good education. THe real truth of college is you get what you put in to it. Truthfully no one screening applicants looks to see if some spent all 4 years at columbia or NYU just that they graduated from there.

I think there is going to be a major shakeup at schools in the near future. Many schools are now advertising as they are not getting enough students to fill thier ranks. Staff are asking for more compensation while working an average of 15 - 20 hours a week (not including research. Your average plumber or electrician make as much or more than an average MBA. THe payback of a major private school these days (50K a year) is almost 10 years and many are saying it is not worth it.

Joe as an aside what kind of position are you looking for and what starting salary are you looking for? Do not get me wrong, I am not saying it is easy out there, I am saying it has never been easy out there. Finding a job is not easy. It truley is a job to find a job and networking is a key component of that. You say that this is the worst ecconomy since the great depression, but you never lived through the nixion days, gas shortages, double digit inflation, 18 percent mortgage rates. Trust me it was not easy then either. As far as oppertunuty it is still out there for the taking. It is not given to anyone. YOu need to be smarter, or faster, or luckier, or work harder than other people. You are not gaurenteed sucsess, but many do sucseed. Whether its the guy in the schnitzle truck, the guy with 3 limos, THe dr with 3 officies, or bill gates. It comes down to a plan, and idea, a dream, and the faith in yourself to stick it out and follow it.




 

 

[fun]

The fact that you talk about WWI and WWII in the same breath as Iraq and Afghanistan just goes to show how little you know. The world wars were very deadly, but they were at least pretty organized

 
"Pretty organized" is a bit of an understatement. World War II was in fact so well organized that between them the participants managed to kill 60 million people. That's the equivalent of 20 thousand 9-11s, or one 9-11 per day every day for 50 years.

 

[sirvoo]

Know a young man who graduated from Duquesne with a degree in Chemistry.

He moved to North Dakota to pay off his massive student loans (nearly $100K).

After 2 yrs., he has made a significant dent in his student loan debt.

Yes, life is tough and frustrating for those in their 20's. I don't disagree and I emphatize with them.

Think, for most, starting collge at a community college may be the best course of action.

Here in NJ (Monmouth County) kid can go to Brookdale CC for a few grand. If you graduate from high school in the top 20% of your high school class it is free.

If they have a "B average" from Brookdale they can transfer to Rutgers and go for free (not including room and board).

To me, going to Monmouth U., or Rider or The Hall, right out of high school. for $40K plus annually (all in) is crazy.

Think a lot of kids take on too much debt to attend an average undergarduate institution and major in something that isn't marketable.

Do feel sorry for kids today.

One my best friends has a son who graduated, as a Psychology major, from Kentucky 2 years ago and is life guarding and working retail. He is seriously thinking about going back to Lexington where he think prospects may be better than N.J.

His brother, by contrast, just received a Doctorate in Physical Theraphy from Seton Hall (he also went to UK as an undergard) and had 6 job offers.

That said, parents and kids need to be more serious about their own due dilligence BEFORE they decide to commit to a particular institution.

IMO, it doesn't make much sense to take outsized loans (at least initially) if you are not attending a so-called "big name" school.

I would also want to make sure that the school I am going into hock for has a great career center and an alumni network that actively looks to place their alma mater's recent grads in good paying jobs.

Kids who are smart, for the most part, will always rise to the top. You can't teach someone to be smart.

It may take longer than normal, but it will happen over time.

To all those who are depressed about their immediate prospects, know that things will get better.

Yes, it may not be this year or next but the economy will eventually turn for the better.

This may not provide much solace at the moment for most, but don't give up hope just yet.

You are much too young and have way too much talent.

Keep the faith !    

 

Great post. It's a very good point you bring up that certain schools, and certain departments within those schools are crazy good at networking. It took me 2 years to find a job after earning over a 3.8 gpa in college. I was certain that while I was breezing through school my gpa and acumen for my major would lead me to a job. You have to be looking for a job during your sophmore year of college, starting summer internships and by senior year going out on interviews. By missing that 2 year head start I fell behind. At the same token you constantly need to network and sell yourself in a genuine way and do the little things that will help you improve yourself. My older siblings and cousins had it much easier 4-5 years ago. Unemployment is a serious problem which I hope gets fixed soon.

Btw Joe you are a character bro, love how you spice things up on here for better or worse.

 

[mjmaherjr]

A lot of good points being made on this thread. Just speaking in generalities ( not speaking of Joe personally ) since I dont know him but as Fun and others mentioned I think the younger generation is a bit spoiled. Actually I know it from seeing my clients kids.

I understand Joe's points and agree with some but I think Joe doesnt realize that people older dont exactly have it easy now either. ( I'm 42 ) and I know most of my friends parents who cant even afford to retire because of the current cost of living etc so cost of living works against everyone and with interest rates so low that is affecting seniors who look to fixed income investments to subsidize their retirement and they have taken a big haircut in what they earn. All that gives them less disposable income which hurts the economy also amongst other things

The one thing I do agree with Joe is the current job market. I've worked in finance for 20 years and it's just not good in a lot of different business sectors. Off the top of my head the unemployment rate has been over 8% the last 4 years or so and I dont ever remember that happening. At least not in my lifetime.

  

 

[sirvoo]

 Yes MJ and when we finally get jobs we invest in things such as TVIX and lose a few months rent to start our careers. Just sayin, I know you guys don't like talking about specifics but we can't even let our money work for us! Most people at any age would agree with that during these times.

 

[MainMan]

The world wars were very deadly, but they were at least pretty organized

WWI was so organized that 11,000 men were killed after the Armistace was signed.

 

[MCNPA]

A lot of good points being made on this thread. Just speaking in generalities ( not speaking of Joe personally ) since I dont know him but as Fun and others mentioned I think the younger generation is a bit spoiled. Actually I know it from seeing my clients kids.

I understand Joe's points and agree with some but I think Joe doesnt realize that people older dont exactly have it easy now either. ( I'm 42 ) and I know most of my friends parents who cant even afford to retire because of the current cost of living etc so cost of living works against everyone and with interest rates so low that is affecting seniors who look to fixed income investments to subsidize their retirement and they have taken a big haircut in what they earn. All that gives them less disposable income which hurts the economy also amongst other things

The one thing I do agree with Joe is the current job market. I've worked in finance for 20 years and it's just not good in a lot of different business sectors. Off the top of my head the unemployment rate has been over 8% the last 4 years or so and I dont ever remember that happening. At least not in my lifetime.

  

 

Maher, you more than anybody knows that a large swathe of the generation that you're speaking of never even thought about retirement their entire working career nor putting money away. It's not the cost of living that is hurting those generations. Many never even thought about saving. They thought social security would be more than enough. They had tons of equity in their houses that they used to take out home equity to sponsor their expenses and you know the rest of the story.

In the new economy, I can't save enough. The government allows me to sock away less than 18k per year in tax deferred(not exempt) accounts and that is the biggest advantage that most Americans can "earn".