You Paid For College How ?
- Thread starter jerseyshorejohnny
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beast of the east
Active member
Interesting, spirited discussion. Even when contrasting, many good points.
First off, this old and out of touch stuff is ridiculous age bias, but most of you know this. I got over that a long time ago. One of my role models over the past 20 years was a friend in my parish who died a few years ago at 86. He was never old. I only knew of him as a retired printer, until I asked him to give a witness type talk. Turns out he was a full scholarship student at Loughlin, who quit after two years to go to a vocational school during the depression when his father told him college wasn't a possibility and the family needed help. He volunteered for WWII service, and became a gunner in a fighter plane where only 6 of 400 in his squadron survived the war. He didn't make any friends because he said you never knew who wasn't coming back after a mission and it was hard enough to lose a comrade, no less a friend. He said an act of contrition each morning for the men he might kill. He came away with a few medals and constant tinnitus, which he never complained about. He wasn't educated in college walls, but one of the brightest and most fiathful men I had known. I miss him.
A college degree is a means to an end, not an end in itself. So much for the notion that "I worked too hard to go to community college". You go to college to obtain a degree, not a pedigree. Admittedly some schools will educate you better than others. There is an absurd dilution of a college degree today. When my mother passed away, we found chmistry notebooks from high school from around 1940, and the level was about at the college level chemistry I took in the 70s. Today, many products of a college education have gained little in knowledge, poise, or stature. They somehow think a degree entitles them to something greater than large debt.
This doesn't mean I am not empathetic. Two of my kids are recent college grads. One of them got a job for less that netted less than her off the books mother's helper job while in college. For that wage she was constantly berated and questioned by a 28 year old "manager" who publicly berated her and questioned her long hours in the office (often till 8 pm or later to complete projects from the 5 managers she reported to). She just started a new job based on the experience gained that pays nearly 100% more. She lives at home for now - big deal. I tell her be thankful she has a roof over her head, a nice room, and no living expenses to worry about if she lost her job. My other daughter works her tail off - on Mondays she's in the office at 7AM and works often past 9 pm because her workload is unreal. She's about to be offered a position with a 40% raise that will compensate her well for someone out of school 4 years.
College grads today have it incredibly hard. Therejust aren't a ton of entry level jobs, since corporations have a large pool of experienced candidates with applicable skills who will take any job. I've told my kids I don't feel sorry for them - in the long run, they will be fine. Maybe not this year or next, but they are bright, communicate well, make a good appearance, and work very hard.
The guys I really feel for are those who are approaching or past 50 and lost good jobs. Companies are just not anxious to hire a guy who is earning 6 figures plus, and who won't likely be willing to put in 12 hour days to please his boss, etc, etc. For many of those guys, in this economy, their careers are over, at a point in their lives where they should have 10-15 solid years to save for retirement. It's scary.
What kids today fail to realize is that a college education is a consumer product with a hefty pricetag, that guarantees nothing. In simplistic terms, if a degree cost $5 million, most intelligent people would not invest in something that would not bring a sufficient return on investment. The same holds true though for a $200,000 investment. Low interest student loans only reduce the reality for students that this is an enrmous debt that may very well delay or impede home ownership, saving for their own kids education, or retirement savings (which we all know should be started in your 20s).
Bottom line is anyone with a stable job (if there is such a thing) should be thankful in this economy, because right now things are very difficult for everyone. Bright, talented, and exceptionally hard working young people with degrees will do fine in the long run. Degree or not, without those factors going for you (hard working being the most important) a college degree will have little value.
First off, this old and out of touch stuff is ridiculous age bias, but most of you know this. I got over that a long time ago. One of my role models over the past 20 years was a friend in my parish who died a few years ago at 86. He was never old. I only knew of him as a retired printer, until I asked him to give a witness type talk. Turns out he was a full scholarship student at Loughlin, who quit after two years to go to a vocational school during the depression when his father told him college wasn't a possibility and the family needed help. He volunteered for WWII service, and became a gunner in a fighter plane where only 6 of 400 in his squadron survived the war. He didn't make any friends because he said you never knew who wasn't coming back after a mission and it was hard enough to lose a comrade, no less a friend. He said an act of contrition each morning for the men he might kill. He came away with a few medals and constant tinnitus, which he never complained about. He wasn't educated in college walls, but one of the brightest and most fiathful men I had known. I miss him.
A college degree is a means to an end, not an end in itself. So much for the notion that "I worked too hard to go to community college". You go to college to obtain a degree, not a pedigree. Admittedly some schools will educate you better than others. There is an absurd dilution of a college degree today. When my mother passed away, we found chmistry notebooks from high school from around 1940, and the level was about at the college level chemistry I took in the 70s. Today, many products of a college education have gained little in knowledge, poise, or stature. They somehow think a degree entitles them to something greater than large debt.
This doesn't mean I am not empathetic. Two of my kids are recent college grads. One of them got a job for less that netted less than her off the books mother's helper job while in college. For that wage she was constantly berated and questioned by a 28 year old "manager" who publicly berated her and questioned her long hours in the office (often till 8 pm or later to complete projects from the 5 managers she reported to). She just started a new job based on the experience gained that pays nearly 100% more. She lives at home for now - big deal. I tell her be thankful she has a roof over her head, a nice room, and no living expenses to worry about if she lost her job. My other daughter works her tail off - on Mondays she's in the office at 7AM and works often past 9 pm because her workload is unreal. She's about to be offered a position with a 40% raise that will compensate her well for someone out of school 4 years.
College grads today have it incredibly hard. Therejust aren't a ton of entry level jobs, since corporations have a large pool of experienced candidates with applicable skills who will take any job. I've told my kids I don't feel sorry for them - in the long run, they will be fine. Maybe not this year or next, but they are bright, communicate well, make a good appearance, and work very hard.
The guys I really feel for are those who are approaching or past 50 and lost good jobs. Companies are just not anxious to hire a guy who is earning 6 figures plus, and who won't likely be willing to put in 12 hour days to please his boss, etc, etc. For many of those guys, in this economy, their careers are over, at a point in their lives where they should have 10-15 solid years to save for retirement. It's scary.
What kids today fail to realize is that a college education is a consumer product with a hefty pricetag, that guarantees nothing. In simplistic terms, if a degree cost $5 million, most intelligent people would not invest in something that would not bring a sufficient return on investment. The same holds true though for a $200,000 investment. Low interest student loans only reduce the reality for students that this is an enrmous debt that may very well delay or impede home ownership, saving for their own kids education, or retirement savings (which we all know should be started in your 20s).
Bottom line is anyone with a stable job (if there is such a thing) should be thankful in this economy, because right now things are very difficult for everyone. Bright, talented, and exceptionally hard working young people with degrees will do fine in the long run. Degree or not, without those factors going for you (hard working being the most important) a college degree will have little value.
beast of the east
Active member
No question that congenial, positive, team players are great assets to any organization. Throw in passion for what you are doing as another positive attribute. I also always value people whose opinion you can trust because they know what they know and also know what they don't know.
Lastly when you go on record as saying you don't care who you offend, that is probably going to inhibit your career aspirations sooner or later.
beast of the east
Active member
I work on Franklin also. Mike we should have lunch one day. I don't eat out as much as you, and certainly don't don't out as much either, based on your other posts |-0
jerseyshorejohnny
Well-known member
From the front page of today's Wall Street Journal:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...03876.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...03876.html?mod=WSJ_hp_LEFTWhatsNewsCollection
beast of the east
Active member
As you are likely aware, in NYS (and probably elsewhere, but especially NYS) there has been a surge in SUNY applications. I suspect many are from kids whose parents never would have considered state University when times were better. I say especially NYS because it is likely the global epicenter of brand cache of private universities, way beyond their value. In Iowa, Iowa State or University of Iowa do just fine, same in Michigan and a bevy of midwestern states. In NY, despite having one of the finest State systems, most people with means plunk down money for private educations. In these rough times, the money just isn't there. Using the numbers from the WSJ article, 200,000 in NYS hardly makes a family well off.
Tough for me to get out for lunch while the market is open but anytime you want to meet there after the market closes for an early dinner or drink let me know. Trevor " aka username on this site- Still Happy or Happy " who you met at that pregame reception before the garden game this past season works right near us now also so he can meet up with us too
I live in Boca Raton in an expensive neighborhood. Many of my neighbors are sending their kids to UF or FSU. Applications are through the roof for those schools and you need excellent grades for acceptance. With Fl. prepaid plans, bright future scholis and the vast difference in tuition ws .private schools, these schools are very attractive. And if the student opts for graduate or professional school the money saved could be used for that.
beast of the east
Active member
That would be great. Generally, the earlier the better.
Early is fine.
BTW I mentioned Grimaldi's earlier on this thread and we definitely arent going to go there.
Less than a year ago Russell the owner died of a heart attack ( he was under 40 years old while at the gym )
This weekend Dean ( the manager who was always there ) who is my age died in a hit and run I think right after his shift late saturday night.
And those 2 were real good friends
Freaking crazy
beast of the east
Active member
Sorry to hear they were your friends. That place does an awesome business. I thnk the story was that russell was a contractor who had built two brick over pizzeria restaurants for family memebers, and then decided to build one for himself. He was really young. Sorry to hear about Dean. I have only been there a couple of times and didn't know either personally.
beast of the east
Active member
Add another Grimaldi's related tragedy:
http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/williston-park-man-charged-in-fatal-hit-run-1.3905645
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