Why are we not being looked at by ACC?

can you please take all this SUNY vs Marist stuff offline to PM or at least another forum topic? This is not what the thread is about.

That said, its very disappointing to see ND leave the BE. Initially when I heard they went to the ACC I was upset as I could understand leaving for a more prestigious conference like the Big Ten, Twelve or the SEC, but I considered the ACC to be inferior to the BE. However if you look at the soon to be teams in the big east its a complete disaster geographically. While quality BB and Football teams are being added they are not the "BRAND Names" ND, WV, PITT, and CUSE are at least in the north east. (I’m sure Houston and SMU pull a lot more brand weight in Texas then SJU or the Hall)

ND waited as long as they pretty much could and saw the BE going down the toilet, and bolted. I really cant blame them. I think the whole academics excuse is garbage and just a way for them to try and keep a clean image without any blood on their clothes. I hope we beat them at MSG this year and never play them again. (I am/was a big ND football fan too. I was in Dublin two weeks ago)

However I feel right now our best course of action would be to get on our knees and beg to be included as a basketball only school in the ACC. I believe if we leverage MSG and could pull some strings to guarantee the ACC site for a conf tourney that would help our chances. Its now every man form themselves and I’m sure Nova and Gtown are doing the same.

We do have a couple advantages over Gtown and Nova:
1. were actually in NY, covered by the Post and Daily News very well when were competitive.
2. we have MSG as a home
3. we have much better Olympic sports won both Soccer and Baseball last year (both thoes sports matter in the ACC). Also the lax program is not far behind either and even placed higher last year. Ranked womens Bball.

However both Nova and Gtown have much better academics than us.
 
can you please take all this SUNY vs Marist stuff offline to PM or at least another forum topic? This is not what the thread is about.

That said, its very disappointing to see ND leave the BE. Initially when I heard they went to the ACC I was upset as I could understand leaving for a more prestigious conference like the Big Ten, Twelve or the SEC, but I considered the ACC to be inferior to the BE. However if you look at the soon to be teams in the big east its a complete disaster geographically. While quality BB and Football teams are being added they are not the "BRAND Names" ND, WV, PITT, and CUSE are at least in the north east. (I’m sure Houston and SMU pull a lot more brand weight in Texas then SJU or the Hall)

ND waited as long as they pretty much could and saw the BE going down the toilet, and bolted. I really cant blame them. I think the whole academics excuse is garbage and just a way for them to try and keep a clean image without any blood on their clothes. I hope we beat them at MSG this year and never play them again. (I am/was a big ND football fan too. I was in Dublin two weeks ago)

However I feel right now our best course of action would be to get on our knees and beg to be included as a basketball only school in the ACC. I believe if we leverage MSG and could pull some strings to guarantee the ACC site for a conf tourney that would help our chances. Its now every man form themselves and I’m sure Nova and Gtown are doing the same.

We do have a couple advantages over Gtown and Nova:
1. were actually in NY, covered by the Post and Daily News very well when were competitive.
2. we have MSG as a home
3. we have much better Olympic sports won both Soccer and Baseball last year (both thoes sports matter in the ACC). Also the lax program is not far behind either and even placed higher last year. Ranked womens Bball.

However both Nova and Gtown have much better academics than us.
 

Hands and knees? The ACC has given it to the BE in the rear and you use such colorful language! LOL!
Some reminders--- ND did not play football in the BE and never would. It was a marriage of convenience from the start. That the good Catholic father and president of ND lied through his teeth just a few weeks ago deserves excommunication at the very least. A candidate for Pope he will never be! Unlike Jersey and a few others here I have never been an Irish fan....their football has been akin to watching a 70's porn star in granny porn....still sex but not that appealing.
As for Gtown, I think Maryland may have an opinion there in the DC area. Villanova? Laugh out Loud!!
For all this ACC football talk they have done Butkus to improve their football when it comes to highly competitive teams. At least the 12 added WV with real football team.
This all goes to the heart of the ACC fear and jealousy of Big East superiority in college basketball. Every move was made to gain basketball branded schools in the latest raid----unlike the raid of Maimi, BC and VaTech. Of course BC and Miami have declined in football power since moving to the ACC the addition of a Vanillanova would only be for basketball reasons and not football.
Lessons learned! Greed is good! Even at so-called Catholic schools. Greed is good-----especially at ESPN, the TV network that the Big East propped up and now asks the Big East to bend over. Hands and knees?
I think not!
 
 I was one of 10 people watching the Met TV cast last night and the topic moved from Calhoun retiring, to Notre Dame leaving and then to St Johns. Ron Darling said the balance of teams should look to start a
"Catholic" league with current members plus Xavier, St Louis, etc. I thought that was an interesting take.

Us Met fans are glad that they could change the subject.
 
I want the subject as dead as others do but to clarify I live in Cali where the UC system has 6 in the top 50 national U's so again I speak from a different perspective than say someone in New Mexico.
 
 I was one of 10 people watching the Met TV cast last night and the topic moved from Calhoun retiring, to Notre Dame leaving and then to St Johns. Ron Darling said the balance of teams should look to start a
"Catholic" league with current members plus Xavier, St Louis, etc. I thought that was an interesting take.

Us Met fans are glad that they could change the subject.
 

Wouldn't be against this at all, however:

1) no more football $

2) Getting a decent TV contact might be difficult. ESPN might be running out of dates and channels.


That said, I think an all-Catholic/Vatican league would be as close to the original Big East as we can get.

For the most part: Similar missions, similar student bodies, and rivalries that make sense from day one.  

Heck, I would even like to see a Holiday Festival featuring 8 Catholic shools from around the country (ND NOT included) every year.

A field of St. John's, Gonzaga, Fordham, St. Joe's, Marist (for Joe 3), St. Mary's, San Francisco, and Iona would be great fun and better than what we have now.

The teams would change every year with the exception of St. John's and be played at The Garden or Barclay's whichever one wants to sponsor the tournament.
 
 Its off season so we are going to go off topic at times. RE. SJU begging to join the ACC, I think the problem is, all the BE schools feel that way at this time.
 
can you please take all this SUNY vs Marist stuff offline to PM or at least another forum topic? This is not what the thread is about.

That said, its very disappointing to see ND leave the BE. Initially when I heard they went to the ACC I was upset as I could understand leaving for a more prestigious conference like the Big Ten, Twelve or the SEC, but I considered the ACC to be inferior to the BE. However if you look at the soon to be teams in the big east its a complete disaster geographically. While quality BB and Football teams are being added they are not the "BRAND Names" ND, WV, PITT, and CUSE are at least in the north east. (I’m sure Houston and SMU pull a lot more brand weight in Texas then SJU or the Hall)

ND waited as long as they pretty much could and saw the BE going down the toilet, and bolted. I really cant blame them. I think the whole academics excuse is garbage and just a way for them to try and keep a clean image without any blood on their clothes. I hope we beat them at MSG this year and never play them again. (I am/was a big ND football fan too. I was in Dublin two weeks ago)

However I feel right now our best course of action would be to get on our knees and beg to be included as a basketball only school in the ACC. I believe if we leverage MSG and could pull some strings to guarantee the ACC site for a conf tourney that would help our chances. Its now every man form themselves and I’m sure Nova and Gtown are doing the same.

We do have a couple advantages over Gtown and Nova:
1. were actually in NY, covered by the Post and Daily News very well when were competitive.
2. we have MSG as a home
3. we have much better Olympic sports won both Soccer and Baseball last year (both thoes sports matter in the ACC). Also the lax program is not far behind either and even placed higher last year. Ranked womens Bball.

However both Nova and Gtown have much better academics than us.
 

Yeah I'm done with the Marist vs. SUNY crap lol I know it's a great school and the rankings reflect that. Anyway, back to basketball. I totally agree with your post. We need to go with everything we've got and just beg the ACC to join for all sports if we can. We must use MSG and the NYC market as our main selling points...it would put the ACC on a WHOLE different platform. We all know there are 2 categories...things that are big, and things that are NEW YORK big. This way we still keep our old rivals like Cuse and MSG can serve as the ACC tourney. I would also say that we are not a 1 trick pony. Our Lax was ranked, our baseball was ranked and just short of the CWS, our soccer was ranked, Women's basketball was ranked and made sweet 16, etc...we have so much more to offer than just basketball. I really think we could make a name for ourselves in the ACC as the lovable underdog team taking out the Cuse's, Duke's, UNC's of the world. UConn and Nova can offer football teams, and G'Town can offer great academics, but at the end of the day I think we have the most well-rounded package if you will. I have a terrible feeling we won't even be flirted with by the ACC they probably think we are bottom feeders.
 
I don't know how much of this is bluster vs. actually believing it: These are some excerpts from an interview of the Big East commissioner:

"That has added to the perception that the Big East is a league on the verge of falling apart. Aresco's response to those assertions?

"Complete nonsense," he said. "First of all. I've read some of the articles. Some have been fair, others haven't been fair. We have a great basketball conference. Notre Dame -- we enjoy having the relationship -- but when you have Louisville, Cincinnati, Marquette, and UConn and Georgetown and Villanova and an up-and-coming St. John's, the possibility of DePaul doing well in Chicago, and adding Memphis and Temple, two strong programs. ... When you have all that, how can anybody argue we aren't top to bottom the best basketball conference in the country? We're right up there.  

"When you lose a team, there's always some comment and that's fine. We know we have a strong future, and we also know we've reconstituted our football and we've added some outstanding teams. The old Big East in football was a very good conference, but it didn't have a Boise, which has a national appeal, it didn't have range, it didn't have the Texas schools. We have a bright outlook, and I'm going to make that point. What we don't want to do is let a narrative take over that might simply be inaccurate. It is simply inaccurate."
 
 I'm not buying all the feel-good PR crap from the BE commisioner. We were told everything would be ok, then Cuse left. Then Pitt, then WVU, then ND. Sorry, but this is every man for himself. Loyalty means nothing in an age of the almighty dollar. You know the ACC or other major conferences are not finished raiding the BE. Before we know it, L'Ville, G'Town, and Nova will be gone. Do we really want to be in a BE with just SJ, Prov, SH, DePaul, USF, and maybe Cincy left? I'd rather play the best teams like Duke, UNC, Cuse, and get our profile up. The ACC will be much more exciting and if they take us, MSG comes with us.
 
 I think we need to jump at an ACC invite…but also make sure they have to pay up for our location and the MSG factor. I do agree that we're more attractive then Nova or GTown and why would the ACC want a football school like UConn, Louisville, or Rutgers who will be the odd football program out? If the ACC wants to invade the northeast media markets grab Nova, St Johns, and Georgetown all in one swoop. At the end of the day its all about location location location. You must think ND, Syracuse, BC, and Duke want us in before Georgetown or Villanova and dangling the Garden in the ACC's faces would just be too much IMO. I don't want to be considered a traitor but like you guys said…its everyone for themselves now!
 
 The question is...will MSG+NYC market be enough to counteract Nova and G'Town's superior programs and academics? I really hope Lavin is pulling strings with ESPN telling them that we have the biggest media market in the US to offer and how we are back to being in the thick of things athletically.
 
 "ESPN - talking to B10 and B12 about expanding with remaining BE teams. Trying to convince ACC to take Georgetown / St Johns as a non-football member. Will offer BE low ball offer now saying ND has left and they hear rumors of other teams leaving."

This is a rumor spreading around a forum. They mentioned us being targeted possibly.
 
 "What does this mean for PC? A lot will depend on if there is any other movement from the remaining chess pieces. The conference isn’t dead yeeeeeeeeet, but how many repeated kicks to the face and groin can the conference take? The ACC stated today that there are no plans to add a 16th member, but there has been lots of speculation that a basketball-only school would make sense. Losing Georgetown or St. John’s?"

-Friarblog
 
 I'm not buying all the feel-good PR crap from the BE commisioner. We were told everything would be ok, then Cuse left. Then Pitt, then WVU, then ND. Sorry, but this is every man for himself. Loyalty means nothing in an age of the almighty dollar. You know the ACC or other major conferences are not finished raiding the BE. Before we know it, L'Ville, G'Town, and Nova will be gone. Do we really want to be in a BE with just SJ, Prov, SH, DePaul, USF, and maybe Cincy left? I'd rather play the best teams like Duke, UNC, Cuse, and get our profile up. The ACC will be much more exciting and if they take us, MSG comes with us.
 

+1 Now is not the time to sit and wait to see what happens. Pick up the phones and make some calls
 
 "ESPN - talking to B10 and B12 about expanding with remaining BE teams. Trying to convince ACC to take Georgetown / St Johns as a non-football member. Will offer BE low ball offer now saying ND has left and they hear rumors of other teams leaving."

This is a rumor spreading around a forum. They mentioned us being targeted possibly.
 

This whole thing is really fascinating... I know the Big East has really taken pretty big hit - but does the ACC's commissioner really want that blood on his hand? - to completely destroy/cripple the Big East by stealing away MSG as a recruiting tool from all the remaining Big East schools? It seems a bit too Machiavellian. I presume the ACC's best move is to make sure the Big East plays second fiddle to the ACC in both football and basketball, and stop there. I'm not sure how killing off the whole Big East helps the ACC or ESPN. I can't imagine that the ACC/ESPN doesn't want solid non-conference competitors for TV ratings. Destroying the North-Atlantic's interest in basketball can't be a net-net positive for TV ratings for ESPN.... or can it?
Or maybe on the other hand, does destroying the Big East and having the main members absorbed into the other conferences make sense?... on a net basis, compared to before, would northeast fans watch more football (and basketball) in a super conference that is a little more relevant on a national stage? That might make sense.
Maybe that's too deep thinking... Occam's razor principle is probably at work here; meaning that the simplest answer is usually the correct answer: The ACC, as a 2nd tier football conference is simply just trying to ensure it's own survival, and that's it... and the heck with the ramifications for other schools.

This can go so many different ways, that's what makes this such interesting fodder for off-season talk!

I just hope that all this nonsense doesn't hurt our short-term recruiting. We need some competitors whispering into the ears of our recruiting targets that SJU is on the wrong side of the re-alignment war like i need a new hole in my head...
 
 I am liking the rumors I am reading in forums all over. The whole SJ to ACC thing seems to have picked up a lot tonight. I've seen some people even say ESPN is lobbying to have the ACC take a package of Big East schools like SJ, G'Town, and Nova. I'm still so nervous that we won't make the ACC though. It's like the last lifeboat is there and we have a chance to jump on it.
 
 I am liking the rumors I am reading in forums all over. The whole SJ to ACC thing seems to have picked up a lot tonight. I've seen some people even say ESPN is lobbying to have the ACC take a package of Big East schools like SJ, G'Town, and Nova. I'm still so nervous that we won't make the ACC though. It's like the last lifeboat is there and we have a chance to jump on it.
 

If ESPN truly is lobbying - how can they ignore UCONN? I would be shocked that ESPN, based up in CT, would just let UCONN get completely hosed... i can't imagine that the local legislators wouldn't put massive pressure on ESPN to help UCONN.
 
 Why can't this happen...

To ACC: SJ, G'Town, Nova, UConn, Cincy
To Big 10: USF, L'Ville, Rutgers

All others like Prov, SH, DePaul, etc. merge with C-USA

Problem solved?
 
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