Why are we not being looked at by ACC?

[Class of 72]

Having no football is what is killing us. It's as simple as that. What are we even remotely relevant in, other than basketball? Absolutely nothing!!


People have made references to our success in other sports. But here's a question for ya. How often do you actually get to watch Lacrosse or even college baseball(other than the CWS) on TV??

Let's face it, other than the months of Mid-November thru March, we have nothing to offer anyone, publicity wise. And its the same problem that Nova, Georgetown,and UConn (at least they have a somewhat relevant football program) face. Other than basketball season, the rest of the year is blank for us.

And lets remember that we used to have a football program, but we got rid of it. Reasoning behind that decision was Title IX compliance. But it was OUR administration that CHOSE football to be one of the programs to be cut.

There is a the idea that 'in order to make money, you have to spend money.' Well our administration chose to not spend money, and now it is coming back to haunt us.


We were satisfied with basically being a basketball only school for years. But now no one wants a basketball only school. When things were changing, we just sat there and let them, without doing anything. You can't be mad at anyone else. The only ones we can be mad at is ourselves.

 

You are eating too many peanuts Jumbo! Do you think SJ being a mediocre football school (see Hofstra) would make any difference? ND was given a home for 17 years for its Olympic sports and a chance to play in the heart of their alumni base in the NY metro area. For that they stabbed their business partners in the back one week after telling white lies to the new commish (10 hail Marys and 30 OF's). This had zero to do with money for ND and all to do with not wanting to play with the human species of lesser intelligence at places like Memphis, Temple, St. John's, Seton Hall, etc. It was a move based upon the most elitest principle that drives the holier than thou Irish.
Many of their Midwest alums and fans are upset with this move as it will likely spell the end of their very profitable games against the BIG and that is where their TV appeal has been........and not playing a declining Miami or BC or Syracuse football program.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

Not going to rehash the Marist/Villanova comparison, but don't think anyone is paying off U.S. News.

The thing that acts as a drag on our rankings is the retention rate, alumni giving and 6yr. graduation rate.

We also have a very large student population (with relatively limited financial resources).

If we were half the size we are now, IMO, our ranking would be a lot higher.

A good chunk of our student population would do well academically at those schools ranked #50-#70

That said, it is what it is. 

St. John's is a solid academic institution and serves its purpose.  

 

[1and1sju]

Having no football is what is killing us. It's as simple as that. What are we even remotely relevant in, other than basketball? Absolutely nothing!!


People have made references to our success in other sports. But here's a question for ya. How often do you actually get to watch Lacrosse or even college baseball(other than the CWS) on TV??

Let's face it, other than the months of Mid-November thru March, we have nothing to offer anyone, publicity wise. And its the same problem that Nova, Georgetown,and UConn (at least they have a somewhat relevant football program) face. Other than basketball season, the rest of the year is blank for us.

And lets remember that we used to have a football program, but we got rid of it. Reasoning behind that decision was Title IX compliance. But it was OUR administration that CHOSE football to be one of the programs to be cut.

There is a the idea that 'in order to make money, you have to spend money.' Well our administration chose to not spend money, and now it is coming back to haunt us.


We were satisfied with basically being a basketball only school for years. But now no one wants a basketball only school. When things were changing, we just sat there and let them, without doing anything. You can't be mad at anyone else. The only ones we can be mad at is ourselves.

 

You are eating too many peanuts Jumbo! Do you think SJ being a mediocre football school (see Hofstra) would make any difference? ND was given a home for 17 years for its Olympic sports and a chance to play in the heart of their alumni base in the NY metro area. For that they stabbed their business partners in the back one week after telling white lies to the new commish (10 hail Marys and 30 OF's). This had zero to do with money for ND and all to do with not wanting to play with the human species of lesser intelligence at places like Memphis, Temple, St. John's, Seton Hall, etc. It was a move based upon the most elitest principle that drives the holier than thou Irish.
Many of their Midwest alums and fans are upset with this move as it will likely spell the end of their very profitable games against the BIG and that is where their TV appeal has been........and not playing a declining Miami or BC or Syracuse football program.

 

The alums I know love this move actually. Besides Chicago; I'd bet 75% of ND alums live on the eastern seaboard. Boston-NYC-Philly-DC corridor is full of ND alums.
It's all about money. Thats why ND has been moving neutral site games to Yankee stadium and Fed Ex field in DC. This is where their fans are.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

Having no football is what is killing us. It's as simple as that. What are we even remotely relevant in, other than basketball? Absolutely nothing!!


People have made references to our success in other sports. But here's a question for ya. How often do you actually get to watch Lacrosse or even college baseball(other than the CWS) on TV??

Let's face it, other than the months of Mid-November thru March, we have nothing to offer anyone, publicity wise. And its the same problem that Nova, Georgetown,and UConn (at least they have a somewhat relevant football program) face. Other than basketball season, the rest of the year is blank for us.

And lets remember that we used to have a football program, but we got rid of it. Reasoning behind that decision was Title IX compliance. But it was OUR administration that CHOSE football to be one of the programs to be cut.

There is a the idea that 'in order to make money, you have to spend money.' Well our administration chose to not spend money, and now it is coming back to haunt us.


We were satisfied with basically being a basketball only school for years. But now no one wants a basketball only school. When things were changing, we just sat there and let them, without doing anything. You can't be mad at anyone else. The only ones we can be mad at is ourselves.

 

You are eating too many peanuts Jumbo! Do you think SJ being a mediocre football school (see Hofstra) would make any difference? ND was given a home for 17 years for its Olympic sports and a chance to play in the heart of their alumni base in the NY metro area. For that they stabbed their business partners in the back one week after telling white lies to the new commish (10 hail Marys and 30 OF's). This had zero to do with money for ND and all to do with not wanting to play with the human species of lesser intelligence at places like Memphis, Temple, St. John's, Seton Hall, etc. It was a move based upon the most elitest principle that drives the holier than thou Irish.
Many of their Midwest alums and fans are upset with this move as it will likely spell the end of their very profitable games against the BIG and that is where their TV appeal has been........and not playing a declining Miami or BC or Syracuse football program.

 

BINGO ! Elitism was most certainly at work.

That said, they will still play USC and Navy (that will never change), and in most years (at least 4 out of every 5, IMO) traditional rivals such as MSU, UM, Stanford and Purdue.

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

Having no football is what is killing us. It's as simple as that. What are we even remotely relevant in, other than basketball? Absolutely nothing!!


People have made references to our success in other sports. But here's a question for ya. How often do you actually get to watch Lacrosse or even college baseball(other than the CWS) on TV??

Let's face it, other than the months of Mid-November thru March, we have nothing to offer anyone, publicity wise. And its the same problem that Nova, Georgetown,and UConn (at least they have a somewhat relevant football program) face. Other than basketball season, the rest of the year is blank for us.

And lets remember that we used to have a football program, but we got rid of it. Reasoning behind that decision was Title IX compliance. But it was OUR administration that CHOSE football to be one of the programs to be cut.

There is a the idea that 'in order to make money, you have to spend money.' Well our administration chose to not spend money, and now it is coming back to haunt us.


We were satisfied with basically being a basketball only school for years. But now no one wants a basketball only school. When things were changing, we just sat there and let them, without doing anything. You can't be mad at anyone else. The only ones we can be mad at is ourselves.

 

You are eating too many peanuts Jumbo! Do you think SJ being a mediocre football school (see Hofstra) would make any difference? ND was given a home for 17 years for its Olympic sports and a chance to play in the heart of their alumni base in the NY metro area. For that they stabbed their business partners in the back one week after telling white lies to the new commish (10 hail Marys and 30 OF's). This had zero to do with money for ND and all to do with not wanting to play with the human species of lesser intelligence at places like Memphis, Temple, St. John's, Seton Hall, etc. It was a move based upon the most elitest principle that drives the holier than thou Irish.
Many of their Midwest alums and fans are upset with this move as it will likely spell the end of their very profitable games against the BIG and that is where their TV appeal has been........and not playing a declining Miami or BC or Syracuse football program.

 

The alums I know love this move actually. Besides Chicago; I'd bet 75% of ND alums live on the eastern seaboard. Boston-NYC-Philly-DC corridor is full of ND alums.
It's all about money. Thats why ND has been moving neutral site games to Yankee stadium and Fed Ex field in DC. This is where their fans are.

 

This year's "neutral" site game is Miami in CHICAGO (Soldier Field) ! 

They play BC @ Chestnut Hill in Nov.

ND fans travel to where ever they play. Heck, I'm living proof. I was in Dublin and will see another 4 games this year in person (UM, Miami, Stanford, and BC). It doesn't make any difference where the alumni live (I went there to MBA school).

 

[Class of 72]

Having no football is what is killing us. It's as simple as that. What are we even remotely relevant in, other than basketball? Absolutely nothing!!


People have made references to our success in other sports. But here's a question for ya. How often do you actually get to watch Lacrosse or even college baseball(other than the CWS) on TV??

Let's face it, other than the months of Mid-November thru March, we have nothing to offer anyone, publicity wise. And its the same problem that Nova, Georgetown,and UConn (at least they have a somewhat relevant football program) face. Other than basketball season, the rest of the year is blank for us.

And lets remember that we used to have a football program, but we got rid of it. Reasoning behind that decision was Title IX compliance. But it was OUR administration that CHOSE football to be one of the programs to be cut.

There is a the idea that 'in order to make money, you have to spend money.' Well our administration chose to not spend money, and now it is coming back to haunt us.


We were satisfied with basically being a basketball only school for years. But now no one wants a basketball only school. When things were changing, we just sat there and let them, without doing anything. You can't be mad at anyone else. The only ones we can be mad at is

The alums I know love this move actually. Besides Chicago; I'd bet 75% of ND alums live on the eastern seaboard. Boston-NYC-Philly-DC corridor is full of ND alums.
It's all about money. Thats why ND has been moving neutral site games to Yankee stadium and Fed Ex field in DC. This is where their fans are.

 

So, you are saying that a 9 game football schedule that now has to include 5 mediocre ACC football teams, none of which plays the heart of their alumni base, helps their alumni base? This makes ND quasi-independent but other than USC on the west coast, how does this help its mediocre football history over the past 20 years being half-in the ACC? Let us say their ACC games are Miami, BC. Syracuse, Pitt and Maryland. Does that look like a national championship schedule? Again, this had zero to do with $$, especially considering ND has close to 6 BILLION $ endowment in 2012.

 

[BrookJersey Redmen]

Elitism it is, I have many partners and friends who went to ND and they think their school is better than Harvard, at least a lot of them do. I think they brainwash them there.

Georgetown IMHO is a better school hands down and they’re not in the ACC.

Maryland, Clemson, Miami, Pitt, Syracuse, NC State, Florida State (probably a few others) are no ND or G-Town academically.

BE lost a good academic school, but I maintain that for BC and ND to even remotely claim they “left” the BE to be with academically compatible schools is pure B.S. and then some. 

 

[jumbo_peanuts]

Well at the end of the day ND is going to arguably the best basketball conference in the country. And where are we? The BE, which is basically a Mid-Major conference right now...

 

[rcatalano]

 With the likes of Louisville, Georgetown, UCONN, st John,s, Villanova, Memphis, Cincy etc, I hardly think that we are a mid major conference.

 

[Class of 72]

Elitism it is, I have many partners and friends who went to ND and they think their school is better than Harvard, at least a lot of them do. I think they brainwash them there.

Georgetown IMHO is a better school hands down and they’re not in the ACC.

Maryland, Clemson, Miami, Pitt, Syracuse, NC State, Florida State (probably a few others) are no ND or G-Town academically.

BE lost a good academic school, but I maintain that for BC and ND to even remotely claim they “left” the BE to be with academically compatible schools is pure B.S. and then some. 

 

They left to "not be" with schools they perceive to be academically inferior. Even though ND spearheaded the football search that led to the membership of SD State, Boise State, Memphis, UCF, Temple, etc., they clearly had no intention of being associated with them, let alone, Louisville, St. John's, Seton Hall, DePaul, Providence, etc.
You hear about Lacrosse and hockey, but frankly, America and television could care less about ND Lacrosse. Villanova, the "other" Catholic school with an inflated ego, attempted to join the ACC for the exact same reason, even though they will never be a mini ND in football and own a 12,000 seat football stadium that they cannot even sell out.

In the truly successful football conferences (SEC and Big 12) at least they do not make any pretenses to academics in their realignment goals. It is simple about $$ and TV football revenue. No one will ever confuse Kentucky with Alabama or Ole Miss in football and schools like them and Miss St, LSU, and Auburn will never be confused with UC Berkley, UCLA, and especially Harvard in the academic rankings.

Personally, and selfishly, I want to see good college basketball and could give a crap about the average SAT scores of the students at Notre Dame. Kentucky is ranked somewhere south of St. John's in academics but I would rather have them on our schedule than ND or BC (praise the Lord and pass the $$). I have no problem watching a traditional basketball power like Temple, Memphis and UNLV in place of ND, Syracuse and Pitt. Call me naive but at the start of the school day the kid at Syracuse will still be attending classes in those droll red brick buildings on the hill and not toney Chapel Hill or Durham and the kid at St. John's will still be taking a bus on Union Turnpike.

Sure it is nice to rub shoulders with Duke, ND, and BC------great academic small giants, but they run to the showers after rubbing against a DePaul Blue Demon, a SJ Redman or a, GOD forbid, a school from Central Florida.

 

[rcatalano]

 Sorry I forgot Marquette!

 

[Class of 72]

Well at the end of the day ND is going to arguably the best basketball conference in the country. And where are we? The BE, which is basically a Mid-Major conference right now...

 

THAT is the position of the ACC and ESPN. Thank you Jumbo for the summary! Nobody knows what 2015 will bring. Duke and UNC may start losing their glitter after academic and other scndala, ND will still be a three legged elephant in college football, and only God and the good father, the president of Notre Dame, will know how the higher NCAA academic standards will affect recruiting those academic scholars on the gridiron that will still be admitted to the SEC and Big 12 schools that have a "way" to get football players qualified.

 

[Section3]

Well at the end of the day ND is going to arguably the best basketball conference in the country. And where are we? The BE, which is basically a Mid-Major conference right now...

 

Mid-major? ND leaving has little effect on the Big East. They have been a regular season overachiever (at home anyway) and a very weak post season team. They can easily be replaced.

Right now, Syracuse is the only big loss...Pitt loss is more than offset by Memphis/Temple

 

[ras]

Elitism it is, I have many partners and friends who went to ND and they think their school is better than Harvard, at least a lot of them do. I think they brainwash them there.

Georgetown IMHO is a better school hands down and they’re not in the ACC.

Maryland, Clemson, Miami, Pitt, Syracuse, NC State, Florida State (probably a few others) are no ND or G-Town academically.

BE lost a good academic school, but I maintain that for BC and ND to even remotely claim they “left” the BE to be with academically compatible schools is pure B.S. and then some. 

 

They left to "not be" with schools they perceive to be academically inferior. Even though ND spearheaded the football search that led to the membership of SD State, Boise State, Memphis, UCF, Temple, etc., they clearly had no intention of being associated with them, let alone, Louisville, St. John's, Seton Hall, DePaul, Providence, etc.
You hear about Lacrosse and hockey, but frankly, America and television could care less about ND Lacrosse. Villanova, the "other" Catholic school with an inflated ego, attempted to join the ACC for the exact same reason, even though they will never be a mini ND in football and own a 12,000 seat football stadium that they cannot even sell out.

In the truly successful football conferences (SEC and Big 12) at least they do not make any pretenses to academics in their realignment goals. It is simple about $$ and TV football revenue. No one will ever confuse Kentucky with Alabama or Ole Miss in football and schools like them and Miss St, LSU, and Auburn will never be confused with UC Berkley, UCLA, and especially Harvard in the academic rankings.

Personally, and selfishly, I want to see good college basketball and could give a crap about the average SAT scores of the students at Notre Dame. Kentucky is ranked somewhere south of St. John's in academics but I would rather have them on our schedule than ND or BC (praise the Lord and pass the $$). I have no problem watching a traditional basketball power like Temple, Memphis and UNLV in place of ND, Syracuse and Pitt. Call me naive but at the start of the school day the kid at Syracuse will still be attending classes in those droll red brick buildings on the hill and not toney Chapel Hill or Durham and the kid at St. John's will still be taking a bus on Union Turnpike.

Sure it is nice to rub shoulders with Duke, ND, and BC------great academic small giants, but they run to the showers after rubbing against a DePaul Blue Demon, a SJ Redman or a, GOD forbid, a school from Central Florida.

  UCF is a good academic school and is difficult to get into.

 

[LINY89]

 I mean yeah this all sucks but the Big East is NOT a mid major. We still have SJ, SH, Providence, G'Town, Louisville, Cincy, USF, Rutgers, Marquette, Memphis, Temple. Every single one of those teams might be ranked at some point (definitely G'Town, Marquette, L'Ville). I think we as St. John's are actually the key to our conference. If we truly play to our ability and maybe hang around as the #24 or #25 team most if not all of the season, then the Big East will actually be pretty solid. Memphis easily can be ranked, Temple has been a solid team ranked on and off in the past few years, Cincy coming off a sweet 16, USF beginning to show hope as is Rutgers, Providence has 2 great recruits, SH was just ranked and contending again, and we have the same giants Nova, L'Ville, G'Town, UConn, Marquette. Assuming none of the other programs leave, we actually still have a great conference for basketball. 

 

[Class of 72]

Elitism it is, I have many partners and friends who went to ND and they think their school is better than Harvard, at least a lot of them do. I think they brainwash them there.

Georgetown IMHO is a better school hands down and they’re not in the ACC.

Maryland, Clemson, Miami, Pitt, Syracuse, NC State, Florida State (probably a few others) are no ND or G-Town academically.

BE lost a good academic school, but I maintain that for BC and ND to even remotely claim they “left” the BE to be with academically compatible schools is pure B.S. and then some. 

 

They left to "not be" with schools they perceive to be academically inferior. Even though ND spearheaded the football search that led to the membership of SD State, Boise State, Memphis, UCF, Temple, etc., they clearly had no intention of being associated with them, let alone, Louisville, St. John's, Seton Hall, DePaul, Providence, etc.
You hear about Lacrosse and hockey, but frankly, America and television could care less about ND Lacrosse. Villanova, the "other" Catholic school with an inflated ego, attempted to join the ACC for the exact same reason, even though they will never be a mini ND in football and own a 12,000 seat football stadium that they cannot even sell out.

In the truly successful football conferences (SEC and Big 12) at least they do not make any pretenses to academics in their realignment goals. It is simple about $$ and TV football revenue. No one will ever confuse Kentucky with Alabama or Ole Miss in football and schools like them and Miss St, LSU, and Auburn will never be confused with UC Berkley, UCLA, and especially Harvard in the academic rankings.

Personally, and selfishly, I want to see good college basketball and could give a crap about the average SAT scores of the students at Notre Dame. Kentucky is ranked somewhere south of St. John's in academics but I would rather have them on our schedule than ND or BC (praise the Lord and pass the $$). I have no problem watching a traditional basketball power like Temple, Memphis and UNLV in place of ND, Syracuse and Pitt. Call me naive but at the start of the school day the kid at Syracuse will still be attending classes in those droll red brick buildings on the hill and not toney Chapel Hill or Durham and the kid at St. John's will still be taking a bus on Union Turnpike.

Sure it is nice to rub shoulders with Duke, ND, and BC------great academic small giants, but they run to the showers after rubbing against a DePaul Blue Demon, a SJ Redman or a, GOD forbid, a school from Central Florida


.

  UCF is a good academic school and is difficult to get into.

 Tell that to the egg heads at US News! USF and UCF voted 170 and 174. They make St. John's look Ivy.
Like I said earlier, after the Ivy and California schools, some Big 10, and about 20 other schools, if you are #75 or #135, the ratings become meaningless. The important thing is to be where you are comfortable as a student. Some kids are happy in the not-so-highly rated Miss State with 20,000 students and some are happy at little Davidson that is highly rated. I know a kid who is attending Marist majoring in History.......History! His parents are paying his entire tuition as they can afford to........yet they live 15 minutes from Stony Brook. 

 

[austour]

That's what we call more money than sense. WTF is it with kids who choose to major in liberal arts at expensive private schools.

 

[Rob Lenhart]

If, as expected, ACC looks to add another school to have even number of teams look for them to go to the BE and add another non-fb school. Look for that school to be Villanova who asked ACC about joining earlier and who are still upset about having to share Philly with Temple. Also, I'm not looking at the BE to go looking to replace either ND or another leaving non-fb school and simply leave the number of non-fb schools at 6 or 7.
 

 

[jerseyshorejohnny]

Fully expect us to play home and home's with Syracuse, and at least 1 game with ND every year. 

Also not going to be surprised to see us play Duke on a somewhat regular basis.

That is about as close to the ACC that we are going to get.



As an aside and as an FYI, interesting to note that the AD at Duke was the former AD at ND.

 

[LINY89]

That's what we call more money than sense. WTF is it with kids who choose to major in liberal arts at expensive private schools.

 

So do you demand that everyone buy a Toyota Camry while you bash those who enjoy luxury, buying Mercedes, BMW's, and Maserati's? You are implying that both schools Marist and Stony Brook have the same benefits. They don't. Marist is only 5,000 students vs. like 10,000 for SB. Marist has much nicer dorms and a way nicer campus on the Hudson river. SB is in SB...who wants to stay home 15 minutes away on a bland campus? Wanting to go away is normal. It helps you grow in my opinion. Marist has MUCH smaller classes. In your freshman year expect to have 20-25 MAX per class. At SB expect 500. It's not even close so stop trying to make it seem like that kid made a bad decision. The money you pay for private schools gets you benefits you can't get at a SUNY. With that said, SB is a great school...but that doesn't mean you are an idiot for not attending if you live 15 minutes away.