What if Ponds leaves?
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[quote="AlBovino" post=283954]With Ponds we finish 3rd. Without Ponds we finish 5th.[/quote]
Now if we had gotten that ‘big’ it’s verboten to grumble ‘ah’! or lament, perhaps finishing 3rd was a high but reasonable hope!
Hey, I agree that we’ll be a very tough team to beat if Shamorie returns because I think Figueroa will make Ponds even more unstoppable.
I think more 4th/5th in that case, but without him maybe 7th at best.
All of it a total guess.
Let’s go Johnnies.
Now if we had gotten that ‘big’ it’s verboten to grumble ‘ah’! or lament, perhaps finishing 3rd was a high but reasonable hope!
Hey, I agree that we’ll be a very tough team to beat if Shamorie returns because I think Figueroa will make Ponds even more unstoppable.
I think more 4th/5th in that case, but without him maybe 7th at best.
All of it a total guess.
Let’s go Johnnies.
redfan259999888
Active member
[quote="Delaware" post=283944]If he leaves, it will be scary, and this board will be so hot next season, it may crash servers on a daily basis![/quote]
Why???
The staff and chris doesn't give a shit, so why should we? If they did they'd be out on the recruiting trail making the effort.
Only reason I'm still here is because i said I'll give it one more year, otherwise I could really give a shit. I really wonder if Chris care, if he did wouldn't he be obsessed recruiting wise to get nyc top ballers? I know I'd be.
I liked the Lavin hire, then he got lazy, then Mullin (the one guy that I really thoughht gave a shit about SJU.)
Yeah, I get the whole crap, lets see what happens next year, well we all better pray Ponds returns.
If not, it will be 4 years of nothing under Chris. That would be really sad.
Why???
The staff and chris doesn't give a shit, so why should we? If they did they'd be out on the recruiting trail making the effort.
Only reason I'm still here is because i said I'll give it one more year, otherwise I could really give a shit. I really wonder if Chris care, if he did wouldn't he be obsessed recruiting wise to get nyc top ballers? I know I'd be.
I liked the Lavin hire, then he got lazy, then Mullin (the one guy that I really thoughht gave a shit about SJU.)
Yeah, I get the whole crap, lets see what happens next year, well we all better pray Ponds returns.
If not, it will be 4 years of nothing under Chris. That would be really sad.
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=283958][quote="Delaware" post=283944]If he leaves, it will be scary, and this board will be so hot next season, it may crash servers on a daily basis![/quote]
Why???
The staff and chris doesn't give a shit, so why should we? If they did they'd be out on the recruiting trail making the effort.
Only reason I'm still here is because i said I'll give it one more year, otherwise I could really give a shit. I really wonder if Chris care, if he did wouldn't he be obsessed recruiting wise to get nyc top ballers? I know I'd be.
I liked the Lavin hire, then he got lazy, then Mullin (the one guy that I really thoughht gave a shit about SJU.)
Yeah, I get the whole crap, lets see what happens next year, well we all better pray Ponds returns.
If not, it will be 4 years of nothing under Chris. That would be really sad.[/quote]
Hey old school, you make great points. Lavin got desperate (leaping for any 5* dream) before he got lazy, but I liked him too.
Got to say I’m flummoxed about Mullin.
Of all the SJU guys on the planet I thought he bled red and white and would be out there like the hounds gettting top 4*/5* NYC /Metro Guys.
I was wrong (I remain a Mullin Guy) and it’s politically incorrect to point that out.
Actually, I think Chris’s ego of losing Sampson and Diallo in his first recruiting season soured him on netting 18 year olds, but I digress.
Hoping like crazy we have a helluva season next year, and net Kofi and Jalen G, and thrive going forward.
Let’s go Johnnies.
Why???
The staff and chris doesn't give a shit, so why should we? If they did they'd be out on the recruiting trail making the effort.
Only reason I'm still here is because i said I'll give it one more year, otherwise I could really give a shit. I really wonder if Chris care, if he did wouldn't he be obsessed recruiting wise to get nyc top ballers? I know I'd be.
I liked the Lavin hire, then he got lazy, then Mullin (the one guy that I really thoughht gave a shit about SJU.)
Yeah, I get the whole crap, lets see what happens next year, well we all better pray Ponds returns.
If not, it will be 4 years of nothing under Chris. That would be really sad.[/quote]
Hey old school, you make great points. Lavin got desperate (leaping for any 5* dream) before he got lazy, but I liked him too.
Got to say I’m flummoxed about Mullin.
Of all the SJU guys on the planet I thought he bled red and white and would be out there like the hounds gettting top 4*/5* NYC /Metro Guys.
I was wrong (I remain a Mullin Guy) and it’s politically incorrect to point that out.
Actually, I think Chris’s ego of losing Sampson and Diallo in his first recruiting season soured him on netting 18 year olds, but I digress.
Hoping like crazy we have a helluva season next year, and net Kofi and Jalen G, and thrive going forward.
Let’s go Johnnies.
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JohnnyFever
Active member
It clearly doesn't make sense for Ponds to leave, as he still has a lot to prove even though he's a good player. He's not great yet...his 3 PT shooting was atrocious this year and he took a big step back there. If you can't make 3's at a 40% clip in college, how can you make them in the NBA even further away?
That being said college players have a long history of not making sense. It seems like he'd rather go overseas and make whatever money he can there and try to get into the D League than stay another year. Even 50k will seem like a ton for some of these kids. There really isn't delayed gratification anymore. If it were up to me of course I'd stay 4 years knowing I could be a NPOY player with tons of hype and get drafted easily in the 1st round making way more money than going to Israel to play or something. But it seems they want the money immediately and don't assess logically. I know some would argue to just let him go overseas even if that's the case so he can help his family get out of the projects which I get, but at the same time leaving is not maximizing his potential.
If we don't have Ponds next year we finish in or near the basement. I continue to say something is rotten in Queens and a few pro-Mullin posters lash out saying that we lost our best player, what did we expect? Just give him 20 more years to make the CBI.
That being said college players have a long history of not making sense. It seems like he'd rather go overseas and make whatever money he can there and try to get into the D League than stay another year. Even 50k will seem like a ton for some of these kids. There really isn't delayed gratification anymore. If it were up to me of course I'd stay 4 years knowing I could be a NPOY player with tons of hype and get drafted easily in the 1st round making way more money than going to Israel to play or something. But it seems they want the money immediately and don't assess logically. I know some would argue to just let him go overseas even if that's the case so he can help his family get out of the projects which I get, but at the same time leaving is not maximizing his potential.
If we don't have Ponds next year we finish in or near the basement. I continue to say something is rotten in Queens and a few pro-Mullin posters lash out saying that we lost our best player, what did we expect? Just give him 20 more years to make the CBI.
[quote="gman" post=283966][quote="Happy" post=283963]If Ponds leaves we will continue to play basketball like we have for the last 100 years 
[/quote]
Not if the angry mob on here shows up with pitchforks and torches and burns the arena to the ground :lol:[/quote]
Carnesecca Arena is a cinder block structure, devoid of any character, save for some faint ghosts lurking about from yesteryears gone by. It's indestructible. Bring on the pitch forks. Carnesecca would win.
[/quote]Not if the angry mob on here shows up with pitchforks and torches and burns the arena to the ground :lol:[/quote]
Carnesecca Arena is a cinder block structure, devoid of any character, save for some faint ghosts lurking about from yesteryears gone by. It's indestructible. Bring on the pitch forks. Carnesecca would win.
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=283964]It clearly doesn't make sense for Ponds to leave, as he still has a lot to prove even though he's a good player. He's not great yet...his 3 PT shooting was atrocious this year and he took a big step back there. If you can't make 3's at a 40% clip in college, how can you make them in the NBA even further away?
That being said college players have a long history of not making sense. It seems like he'd rather go overseas and make whatever money he can there and try to get into the D League than stay another year. Even 50k will seem like a ton for some of these kids. There really isn't delayed gratification anymore. If it were up to me of course I'd stay 4 years knowing I could be a NPOY player with tons of hype and get drafted easily in the 1st round making way more money than going to Israel to play or something. But it seems they want the money immediately and don't assess logically. I know some would argue to just let him go overseas even if that's the case so he can help his family get out of the projects which I get, but at the same time leaving is not maximizing his potential.
If we don't have Ponds next year we finish in or near the basement. I continue to say something is rotten in Queens and a few pro-Mullin posters lash out saying that we lost our best player, what did we expect? Just give him 20 more years to make the CBI.[/quote]
Ponds would command a high six figure salary and a multiple year contract overseas. Kids are dropping out of colleges for less job security than that. It's easy for everybody to SAY what they would do. He could have a career ending injury next year and never make any money playing basketball. Or maybe he'll reach his potential (something most people never do) and become an NBA player. It's risky. One more year of "delaying gratification" in any professional sport can mean hundreds of thousands of dollars or even millions lost in salary.
I think Ponds is smart enough to make an honest assessment of himself. It if were me, and I was offered 300-500k a year for the next 4 years vs. staying in college another year after no mock draft selection or combine invite? I'd be on a plane making my money. Ponds would need to be exponentially better next year in order to become a first round pick. I think he's already close to his ceiling. I just can't see him volume shooting over 50% and 40% from 3 a la Brunson this year.
Just playing Devils advocate.
That being said college players have a long history of not making sense. It seems like he'd rather go overseas and make whatever money he can there and try to get into the D League than stay another year. Even 50k will seem like a ton for some of these kids. There really isn't delayed gratification anymore. If it were up to me of course I'd stay 4 years knowing I could be a NPOY player with tons of hype and get drafted easily in the 1st round making way more money than going to Israel to play or something. But it seems they want the money immediately and don't assess logically. I know some would argue to just let him go overseas even if that's the case so he can help his family get out of the projects which I get, but at the same time leaving is not maximizing his potential.
If we don't have Ponds next year we finish in or near the basement. I continue to say something is rotten in Queens and a few pro-Mullin posters lash out saying that we lost our best player, what did we expect? Just give him 20 more years to make the CBI.[/quote]
Ponds would command a high six figure salary and a multiple year contract overseas. Kids are dropping out of colleges for less job security than that. It's easy for everybody to SAY what they would do. He could have a career ending injury next year and never make any money playing basketball. Or maybe he'll reach his potential (something most people never do) and become an NBA player. It's risky. One more year of "delaying gratification" in any professional sport can mean hundreds of thousands of dollars or even millions lost in salary.
I think Ponds is smart enough to make an honest assessment of himself. It if were me, and I was offered 300-500k a year for the next 4 years vs. staying in college another year after no mock draft selection or combine invite? I'd be on a plane making my money. Ponds would need to be exponentially better next year in order to become a first round pick. I think he's already close to his ceiling. I just can't see him volume shooting over 50% and 40% from 3 a la Brunson this year.
Just playing Devils advocate.
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Windy City Johnny Fan
Member
I have no idea where we will finish either with or without Ponds actually. In either scenario we are going to be relying heavily on 3 guys - Keita, Figueroa and Dixon, that I've never seen play before.
JohnnyFever
Active member
I see what you mean...obviously injuries are always a risk. The thing is though, why even play in college to begin with then? That seems to be the mindset LoVett had. Part of being a major athlete is putting your body on the line and sacrificing it for a paycheck. That should be understood very early on in a player's career. He has been taking calculated risks every game he has played. I don't see how it's any more of a risk to come back another year. If it's really the NBA he wants then he needs to stay another year. If he just wants to make money and doesn't care how, then he will go overseas. I guess it comes down to immediate money vs. the NBA dream. It would probably be much harder to make an NBA roster starting overseas then going to D League then getting a contract vs. being drafted in the 1st round which is possible if he stays another year.
If he does leave we should all wish him well, but that would also likely mean an 8-10 place finish and I'd hope people would be begging Mullin to resign if that happens. We need to see real signs of life from this staff this season.
If he does leave we should all wish him well, but that would also likely mean an 8-10 place finish and I'd hope people would be begging Mullin to resign if that happens. We need to see real signs of life from this staff this season.
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[quote="Mike Zaun" post=283971] ... If he does leave we should all wish him well, but that would also likely mean an 8-10 place finish and I'd hope people would be begging Mullin to resign if that happens. We need to see real signs of life from this staff this season.[/quote]
8-10? Good luck! We were 4-14 with him.
8-10? Good luck! We were 4-14 with him.
Windy City Johnny Fan
Member
FWIW, the Athletic did an eval of every player who declared for the draft this AM. Here is the eval on Ponds, though it doesn't really contain anything we don't already know.
Shamorie Ponds | 6-0, G | St. John’s | 20 years old
Agent: No
Projected draft slot: second round to undrafted
Key stats: 21.6 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 4.7 APG, 42.0/25.3/85.7
Comment: One of the tougher evals in this class, Ponds is about as creative a lead guard scorer as you’ll find — and as volcanic a college scorer as you’ll find. You want to see a couple of ridiculous performances? Watch him carve up Duke and send them spiraling into a zone defense for the rest of the year, or against Marquette when he popped off for 44 points. He uses his body in unique ways to create space for himself inside at the rim, where he finished at a 56.4 percent clip in half-court settings despite being 6-foot with shorter arms. His crossover is also lightning quick, and he knows how to change pace to control his defender and get him off balance. It’s worth noting his defense is pretty rough at the point of attack, and his lack of length will likely make him a magnet for switches and mismatches at the next level. But the biggest key to his potential as an NBA player is clearly the jump shot. He hit only 25 percent of his 3s this year, a number that likely understates his shooting ability because of the shot selection and shot difficulty he often undertakes. But is it good enough for him to consistently knock down shots at an above-average clip from NBA range, something that will be essential for him as a bench scorer at the next level? Probably not quite yet. Additionally, the strength of this lead guard class doesn’t help him. It might behoove him to return to St. John’s, potentially be the Big East Player of the Year (something he’ll likely be favored to win next season), and try his luck next year.
Shamorie Ponds | 6-0, G | St. John’s | 20 years old
Agent: No
Projected draft slot: second round to undrafted
Key stats: 21.6 PPG, 5.0 RPG, 4.7 APG, 42.0/25.3/85.7
Comment: One of the tougher evals in this class, Ponds is about as creative a lead guard scorer as you’ll find — and as volcanic a college scorer as you’ll find. You want to see a couple of ridiculous performances? Watch him carve up Duke and send them spiraling into a zone defense for the rest of the year, or against Marquette when he popped off for 44 points. He uses his body in unique ways to create space for himself inside at the rim, where he finished at a 56.4 percent clip in half-court settings despite being 6-foot with shorter arms. His crossover is also lightning quick, and he knows how to change pace to control his defender and get him off balance. It’s worth noting his defense is pretty rough at the point of attack, and his lack of length will likely make him a magnet for switches and mismatches at the next level. But the biggest key to his potential as an NBA player is clearly the jump shot. He hit only 25 percent of his 3s this year, a number that likely understates his shooting ability because of the shot selection and shot difficulty he often undertakes. But is it good enough for him to consistently knock down shots at an above-average clip from NBA range, something that will be essential for him as a bench scorer at the next level? Probably not quite yet. Additionally, the strength of this lead guard class doesn’t help him. It might behoove him to return to St. John’s, potentially be the Big East Player of the Year (something he’ll likely be favored to win next season), and try his luck next year.
Class of 72
Active member
[quote="AlBovino" post=283954]With Ponds we finish 3rd. Without Ponds we finish 5th.[/quote]
Pass the pipe (dream).
Pass the pipe (dream).
[quote="redken" post=283974][quote="Mike Zaun" post=283971] ... If he does leave we should all wish him well, but that would also likely mean an 8-10 place finish and I'd hope people would be begging Mullin to resign if that happens. We need to see real signs of life from this staff this season.[/quote]
8-10? Good luck! We were 4-14 with him.[/quote]
Didn’t he miss a quarter of the big east schedule? Played hurt in a couple of others too.
8-10? Good luck! We were 4-14 with him.[/quote]
Didn’t he miss a quarter of the big east schedule? Played hurt in a couple of others too.
Mike Zaun wrote: ... If he does leave we should all wish him well, but that would also likely mean an 8-10 place finish and I'd hope people would be begging Mullin to resign if that happens. We need to see real signs of life from this staff this season.
8-10? Good luck! We were 4-14 with him.
Is it possible that Mike Zaun meant that the team would finish somewhere between 8th-10th place in the conference as opposed to a Big East record of 8-10?
8-10? Good luck! We were 4-14 with him.
Is it possible that Mike Zaun meant that the team would finish somewhere between 8th-10th place in the conference as opposed to a Big East record of 8-10?
JohnnyFever
Active member
Yes sorry I didn't clarify...without Ponds I don't see how we aren't finishing 8th, 9th, or 10th in conference. I want to be hopeful about as badly as anyone else, but at a certain point when the results are consistently poor, you come to expect more of the same.
If Ponds comes back and we still finish bottom 3 that's even more damning an indictment on staff. Either way, I really hope Mullin leaves and we can thank him for trying but it clearly will never work if we are bottom 3 again.
If Ponds comes back and we still finish bottom 3 that's even more damning an indictment on staff. Either way, I really hope Mullin leaves and we can thank him for trying but it clearly will never work if we are bottom 3 again.
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