Welcome Caraher

Respect all the commentary here. Caraher will be a question mark until maybe 6 Big East games into his SJU career - in other words, January 2020.

We have a lot of work to do filling out a roster of 10 players who at some point will deserve big time paying time. An actually rotation of 8 Big East caliber players is necessary, and 2 players who will at some point expect to step in to serious paying time, but in the meantime in spot duty can contribute when called upon for foul trouble or injury.

I'm actually more concerned about depth of roster, than getting a banger or legitimate big man. We had that in Obekpa even with all of his warts, but the thing that kept Lavin teams from going deep into tourneys and securing annual tickets to dance was lack of depth. Transfers have hurt Mullin's attempt to build depth but they are part of the game now more than ever.

Yes, we need a serviceable big man. But going forward our rotation can't consist of Yakwe and Amar types if we are going to secure bids. Just my opinion.
 
I was thinking the same thing. We have gotten midmajor transfers and recruits really not ranked that highly. They may turn out to be good, but have to see them play at the BE level. Think we need some top 100 recruits or high major transfers also. I do think that a grad transfer big is imperative for next year and will feel better when one pops for us.
 
[quote="Beast of the East" post=281419]Respect all the commentary here. Caraher will be a question mark until maybe 6 Big East games into his SJU career - in other words, January 2020.

We have a lot of work to do filling out a roster of 10 players who at some point will deserve big time paying time. An actually rotation of 8 Big East caliber players is necessary, and 2 players who will at some point expect to step in to serious paying time, but in the meantime in spot duty can contribute when called upon for foul trouble or injury.

I'm actually more concerned about depth of roster, than getting a banger or legitimate big man. We had that in Obekpa even with all of his warts, but the thing that kept Lavin teams from going deep into tourneys and securing annual tickets to dance was lack of depth. Transfers have hurt Mullin's attempt to build depth but they are part of the game now more than ever.

Yes, we need a serviceable big man. But going forward our rotation can't consist of Yakwe and Amar types if we are going to secure bids. Just my opinion.[/quote]

I don't want to hijack this thread too much and I like Caraher signing and glad to see the staff building the future. We need a full team of guys that can play and want to be there.

I agree about the roster balance but It is not either/or. We need a balanced roster including Big man depth.
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=281432][quote="Beast of the East" post=281419]Respect all the commentary here. Caraher will be a question mark until maybe 6 Big East games into his SJU career - in other words, January 2020.

We have a lot of work to do filling out a roster of 10 players who at some point will deserve big time paying time. An actually rotation of 8 Big East caliber players is necessary, and 2 players who will at some point expect to step in to serious paying time, but in the meantime in spot duty can contribute when called upon for foul trouble or injury.

I'm actually more concerned about depth of roster, than getting a banger or legitimate big man. We had that in Obekpa even with all of his warts, but the thing that kept Lavin teams from going deep into tourneys and securing annual tickets to dance was lack of depth. Transfers have hurt Mullin's attempt to build depth but they are part of the game now more than ever.

Yes, we need a serviceable big man. But going forward our rotation can't consist of Yakwe and Amar types if we are going to secure bids. Just my opinion.[/quote]

I don't want to hijack this thread too much and I like Caraher signing and glad to see the staff building the future. We need a full team of guys that can play and want to be there.

I agree about the roster balance but It is not either/or. We need a balanced roster including Big man depth.[/quote]

Very hard to have Big man depth. A decent big and a back up is all we can hope for as we are not Kentucky with talented bigs willing to sit. Beast may be describing the Villanova formula which makes more sense. They only needed Omari at center because the guys around him all were talented and contributors. We will or should have overall talent next year and a complimentary player to Keita would put us over the hump. Hope Matt has one willing to visit.
 
Obekpa was never a banger inside he was a shot blocker .We have players[ now that are 6-9 6-10 Agree with plaultz give me a 6-8 rebounding hard nose with inside moves and we will be fine
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=281415]Who are we are we kidding? Easy to say “get two” but we are not being inundated with big prospects. Was told Femi apparently wanted a place where he could display his offensive skills to maximize his chances of earning $$ somewhere professionally. Our guard oriented approach was not appealing to him apparently. It is not like bigs are lining up at our door. Get a serviceable player who can rebound, set picks and do the dirty work. If not, tough season awaits imo.[/quote]

But we need to ask ourselves why teams like Marist and DePaul have them come without issue. I never said go get 4-5 star bigs...I'd settle for 2-3 star guys who are hungry and weigh more than 180 lbs soaking wet. If we had truly capable bigs offensively, they would become more of the gameplan. The problem is that our bigs have been pretty raw here and couldn't offer much more than dunks, blocks, and alley-oops. They don't seem to improve much either while they're here. IMO that means we need a legit assistant who has some expertise regarding bigs and developing them. It's pretty odd how logical and sensible changes seem to be resisted. Let's hope results are totally different next year.
 
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[quote="usguard" post=281440]Obekpa was never a banger inside he was a shot blocker .We have players[ now that are 6-9 6-10 Agree with plaultz give me a 6-8 rebounding hard nose with inside moves and we will be fine[/quote]

Elbow to temple of opposing player that cost him a DQ plus a game could be considered "banging."
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=281443][quote="Paultzman" post=281415]Who are we are we kidding? Easy to say “get two” but we are not being inundated with big prospects. Was told Femi apparently wanted a place where he could display his offensive skills to maximize his chances of earning $$ somewhere professionally. Our guard oriented approach was not appealing to him apparently. It is not like bigs are lining up at our door. Get a serviceable player who can rebound, set picks and do the dirty work. If not, tough season awaits imo.[/quote]

But we need to ask ourselves why teams like Marist and DePaul have them come without issue. I never said go get 4-5 star bigs...I'd settle for 2-3 star guys who are hungry and weigh more than 180 lbs soaking wet. If we had truly capable bigs offensively, they would become more of the gameplan. The problem is that our bigs have been pretty raw here and couldn't offer much more than dunks, blocks, and alley-oops. They don't seem to improve much either while they're here. IMO that means we need a legit assistant who has some expertise regarding bigs and developing them. It's pretty odd how logical and sensible changes seem to be resisted. Let's hope results are totally different next year.[/quote]

Sometimes I get impression you want this staff to magically disappear or administration follows your well beaten desires. To me, wait until recruiting period ends to see what roster will look like, judge next season’s results and go from there. Nothing is changing now, but an unsuccessful 19 recruiting season coupled with another disappointing year should help Mullin, Administration gauge the prognosis of SJ hoops. For now, spare the horses. :)
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=281446][quote="Mike Zaun" post=281443][quote="Paultzman" post=281415]Who are we are we kidding? Easy to say “get two” but we are not being inundated with big prospects. Was told Femi apparently wanted a place where he could display his offensive skills to maximize his chances of earning $$ somewhere professionally. Our guard oriented approach was not appealing to him apparently. It is not like bigs are lining up at our door. Get a serviceable player who can rebound, set picks and do the dirty work. If not, tough season awaits imo.[/quote]

But we need to ask ourselves why teams like Marist and DePaul have them come without issue. I never said go get 4-5 star bigs...I'd settle for 2-3 star guys who are hungry and weigh more than 180 lbs soaking wet. If we had truly capable bigs offensively, they would become more of the gameplan. The problem is that our bigs have been pretty raw here and couldn't offer much more than dunks, blocks, and alley-oops. They don't seem to improve much either while they're here. IMO that means we need a legit assistant who has some expertise regarding bigs and developing them. It's pretty odd how logical and sensible changes seem to be resisted. Let's hope results are totally different next year.[/quote]

Sometimes I get impression you want this staff to magically disappear or administration follows your well beaten desires. To me, wait until recruiting period ends to see what roster will look like, judge next season’s results and go from there. Nothing is changing now, but an unsuccessful 19 recruiting season coupled with another disappointing year should help Mullin, Administration gauge the prognosis of SJ hoops. For now, spare the horses. :)[/quote]

Ugh. Sobering / tough love advice and well-said, but let's hope we stumble onto that 'serviceable' grad big 'banger' (Abdul Lewis type?) and next year is 'up' from here--which would include decent recruiting success--and 'not' down.
Ugh.
 
First to stay on topic - welcome Caraher.

Now to chime in on the daily big man lament. Another big would be helpful but this team is not tiny. I still would prefer another Ahmed type (Bashir rebounded) to a plodding big. We are going to run the offense through Ponds and Simon and tell any bigs we have to get the hell out of the way. That is hard enough to sell to one guy with a year of eligibility left, two is down right unreasonable.
 
[quote="IDRAFT" post=281457]First to stay on topic - welcome Caraher.

Now to chime in on the daily big man lament. Another big would be helpful but this team is not tiny. I still would prefer another Ahmed type (Bashir rebounded) to a plodding big. We are going to run the offense through Ponds and Simon and tell any bigs we have to get the hell out of the way. That is hard enough to sell to one guy with a year of eligibility left, two is down right unreasonable.[/quote]
Nice recruiting pitch to a potential big recruit. ;) :) Come here and then get the hell out of the way! Wonder if staff is using that same model. ;) :)
 
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bamafan wrote: IDRAFT wrote: First to stay on topic - welcome Caraher.

Now to chime in on the daily big man lament. Another big would be helpful but this team is not tiny. I still would prefer another Ahmed type (Bashir rebounded) to a plodding big. We are going to run the offense through Ponds and Simon and tell any bigs we have to get the hell out of the way. That is hard enough to sell to one guy with a year of eligibility left, two is down right unreasonable.
Nice recruiting pitch to a potential big recruit. Come here and then get the hell out of the way! Wonder if staff is using that same model.

While Ponds will (and should) clearly be the focus of our offense next year, I think we may be exaggerating a bit the aversion the staff has to big men involvement in the offense. During the year plus Sima was on the team there were any number of times where plays were drawn up to go inside to him; unfortunately his inside game was only marginally better than Tariq's. If we get a big with a decent post up game, see no reason staff wouldn't utilize it and I would hope that is the message they are conveying.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=281466]bamafan wrote: IDRAFT wrote: First to stay on topic - welcome Caraher.

Now to chime in on the daily big man lament. Another big would be helpful but this team is not tiny. I still would prefer another Ahmed type (Bashir rebounded) to a plodding big. We are going to run the offense through Ponds and Simon and tell any bigs we have to get the hell out of the way. That is hard enough to sell to one guy with a year of eligibility left, two is down right unreasonable.
Nice recruiting pitch to a potential big recruit. Come here and then get the hell out of the way! Wonder if staff is using that same model.

While Ponds will (and should) clearly be the focus of our offense next year, I think we may be exaggerating a bit the aversion the staff has to big men involvement in the offense. During the year plus Sima was on the team there were any number of times where plays were drawn up to go inside to him; unfortunately his inside game was only marginally better than Tariq's. If we get a big with a decent post up game, see no reason staff wouldn't utilize it and I would hope that is the message they are conveying.[/quote]

They tried for years going back to Obekpa/Lavin... Sima, Yakwe, Owens but a combination of poor hands, poor positioning and major league soft play left us with the choice of play 4 on 5 on either offense or defense and sometimes both. Owens ended up being the best option of all those guys as he wasn't a total liability on either end but other than blocking shots he was more of a wing than a big man. And I suspect that he is going to have a hard time creating a shot for himself when he is not on a team where opponents overplay his teams guards.

I'd take 3 big men don't care about star ratings. Have good hands. Know and want good positioning and fight for it. Are team players and don't have NBA stretch 4 ambitions and need to prove they can shoot the 3. This is not a big ask. We've played regularly against kids like this on teams like Creighton, Butler and a host of low and mid majors that came into Carnesecca and had the games of their careers against us. Whether they can run the floor with Simon and Ponds is a pipe dream and irrelevant. We've not had enough of a defensive post presence to create a consistent fast break and we end up half court most of the time. Get a defensive rebounder that instantly outlets the ball and that would help to uptempo the offense regardless of whether or not he can run the floor with them.
 
[quote="Paul Massell" post=281469][quote="NCJohnnie" post=281466]bamafan wrote: IDRAFT wrote: First to stay on topic - welcome Caraher.

Now to chime in on the daily big man lament. Another big would be helpful but this team is not tiny. I still would prefer another Ahmed type (Bashir rebounded) to a plodding big. We are going to run the offense through Ponds and Simon and tell any bigs we have to get the hell out of the way. That is hard enough to sell to one guy with a year of eligibility left, two is down right unreasonable.
Nice recruiting pitch to a potential big recruit. Come here and then get the hell out of the way! Wonder if staff is using that same model.

While Ponds will (and should) clearly be the focus of our offense next year, I think we may be exaggerating a bit the aversion the staff has to big men involvement in the offense. During the year plus Sima was on the team there were any number of times where plays were drawn up to go inside to him; unfortunately his inside game was only marginally better than Tariq's. If we get a big with a decent post up game, see no reason staff wouldn't utilize it and I would hope that is the message they are conveying.[/quote]

They tried for years going back to Obekpa/Lavin... Sima, Yakwe, Owens but a combination of poor hands, poor positioning and major league soft play left us with the choice of play 4 on 5 on either offense or defense and sometimes both. Owens ended up being the best option of all those guys as he wasn't a total liability on either end but other than blocking shots he was more of a wing than a big man. And I suspect that he is going to have a hard time creating a shot for himself when he is not on a team where opponents overplay his teams guards.

I'd take 3 big men don't care about star ratings. Have good hands. Know and want good positioning and fight for it. Are team players and don't have NBA stretch 4 ambitions and need to prove they can shoot the 3. This is not a big ask. We've played regularly against kids like this on teams like Creighton, Butler and a host of low and mid majors that came into Carnesecca and had the games of their careers against us. Whether they can run the floor with Simon and Ponds is a pipe dream and irrelevant. We've not had enough of a defensive post presence to create a consistent fast break and we end up half court most of the time. Get a defensive rebounder that instantly outlets the ball and that would help to uptempo the offense regardless of whether or not he can run the floor with them.[/quote]

I don't think it's about when they run. In the half court the goal is get the big man out of the way and clear the lane for Ponds and Simon to go to the hole. That only fits for a small subset of bigs, and not the type that Butler and Creighton employ.
 
[quote="IDRAFT" post=281474][quote="Paul Massell" post=281469][quote="NCJohnnie" post=281466]bamafan wrote: IDRAFT wrote: First to stay on topic - welcome Caraher.

Now to chime in on the daily big man lament. Another big would be helpful but this team is not tiny. I still would prefer another Ahmed type (Bashir rebounded) to a plodding big. We are going to run the offense through Ponds and Simon and tell any bigs we have to get the hell out of the way. That is hard enough to sell to one guy with a year of eligibility left, two is down right unreasonable.
Nice recruiting pitch to a potential big recruit. Come here and then get the hell out of the way! Wonder if staff is using that same model.

While Ponds will (and should) clearly be the focus of our offense next year, I think we may be exaggerating a bit the aversion the staff has to big men involvement in the offense. During the year plus Sima was on the team there were any number of times where plays were drawn up to go inside to him; unfortunately his inside game was only marginally better than Tariq's. If we get a big with a decent post up game, see no reason staff wouldn't utilize it and I would hope that is the message they are conveying.[/quote]

They tried for years going back to Obekpa/Lavin... Sima, Yakwe, Owens but a combination of poor hands, poor positioning and major league soft play left us with the choice of play 4 on 5 on either offense or defense and sometimes both. Owens ended up being the best option of all those guys as he wasn't a total liability on either end but other than blocking shots he was more of a wing than a big man. And I suspect that he is going to have a hard time creating a shot for himself when he is not on a team where opponents overplay his teams guards.

I'd take 3 big men don't care about star ratings. Have good hands. Know and want good positioning and fight for it. Are team players and don't have NBA stretch 4 ambitions and need to prove they can shoot the 3. This is not a big ask. We've played regularly against kids like this on teams like Creighton, Butler and a host of low and mid majors that came into Carnesecca and had the games of their careers against us. Whether they can run the floor with Simon and Ponds is a pipe dream and irrelevant. We've not had enough of a defensive post presence to create a consistent fast break and we end up half court most of the time. Get a defensive rebounder that instantly outlets the ball and that would help to uptempo the offense regardless of whether or not he can run the floor with them.[/quote]

I don't think it's about when they run. In the half court the goal is get the big man out of the way and clear the lane for Ponds and Simon to go to the hole. That only fits for a small subset of bigs, and not the type that Butler and Creighton employ.[/quote]

I think it is a chicken/egg thing. The "GOOW" method is not a long term goal but a necessity with the guys we've had. I seriously doubt Mullin, St. Jean or anyone in their right mind is planning for a Get Out of the Way offense.

Better would be having someone that could get position, set screens etc and demand attention because they are at least a threat to catch a pass. This is what makes space. When you've got a guy on the floor that is a non-factor, pretty much any Div I coach is going to recognize it. This is why we've seen our guards so often has as many as 3 guys on them. So give me some GLUE guys and let's have no more GOO guys - EVER!
 
Boy....I haven't heard this much chatter about us needing a big man since way back in the spring of 2017. :huh:
 
JohnnyFan wrote: Boy....I haven't heard this much chatter about us needing a big man since way back in the spring of 2017.

If at first you don't succeed.....
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=281481]JohnnyFan wrote: Boy....I haven't heard this much chatter about us needing a big man since way back in the spring of 2017.

If at first you don't succeed.....[/quote]

Got a name, “Richard Kimble” :)
 
Why does everyone think this is a good transfer? I think staff is scrambling to fill the roster and going into your 4th year this should not be the case. Caraher sounds like a good young man, but I for am not enthusiastic about this transfer.
 
[quote="david cross" post=281493]Why does everyone think this is a good transfer? I think staff is scrambling to fill the roster and going into your 4th year this should not be the case. Caraher sounds like a good young man, but I for am not enthusiastic about this transfer.[/quote]
We’re an optimistic fan base.
 
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