UNC- ASH

I have a question for the boarders on this forum.

I am not asking this question on a hot-headed manner or in a facetious manner. It's an X's and O's question about bball - and I, admittedly, don't know a lot about X's and O's. So that's why I am asking this:

With regard to the weave that we run seemingly every time we go into our half court offense. How is it supposed to work or what is it supposed to accomplish?
Create opens shots for the players on the wings?
Create back-door passes?
Or get an man open in at the top of the key?
Or create driving lane opportunities by moving defenders around?
Something else?

Do any other teams runs that play bball at a high level run this kind of offense?

When the our teams runs it right now I don't really recall very much coming out of it, so I am trying to figure out what it is supposed to accomplish.

Again, I'm not asking this to put down our players or staff. We all know it's not clicking right now... but I'm just trying to figure out what the specific opportunities the weave is supposed to create as a result of running it.

Thanks in advance.
 
This is an embarrassing loss.
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Stop with the copouts; coaching had nothing to do with the loss. We don't play hard, which is what defense and rebounding are about. On offense, we don't share the ball. That is on the players....we are certainly not a well coached team because the players aren't getting it but Lavin, Keady, etc, did not get stupid over the off-season.
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"Coaching had nothing to do with the loss" ??? It is ALL coaching! It begins in PRACTICE!
Jamal Branch not ready and is "penciled in" for 8 minutes?? WTF are guys smoking? Jamal has been practicing with this team since LAST YEAR!! The practices he had under coach D were worth 2 years of practices under Lavin!

The mystery regarding Sanchez and the benching of Gift, who while not as "gifted" as Obekpa, plays harder than anyone on this team, is a sign that Lavin has ZERO bigs he is pursuing or a chance to sign. There are low mid-majors with better depth at center than St. John's. The one point guard we have may be relegated to play behind a 2 guard without passing or defensive skills (something we sought with signing Branch). This team has been winning on pure athleticism and not game preparation.

Finally. I am tired of hearing about Lavin's health history! Some of us here have had the same history and did not couch our status with "I am about 80%" so other coaches can plant seeds of doubt in recruits. Hate them all you want but slime balls like Calhoun and Boeheim never used their illnesses as excuses and both returned 100% within one year. I know some hard core supporters who feel what I write here. We are 2 or 3 losses in a row away from fan apathy and all the billboards in Times Square will not right the ship.
 
Next home game, I'm almost gonna root for us to get off to a bad start.

There's been exceptions on both sides this year, but it seems like, when we're behind, the guys pick it up on both sides of the ball. They're more aggresive, and that seems to be when most of the blocks and steals lead to easy hoops for us. When we're ahead, it's almost like we try to catch our breath, and the result is almost never good. Some of that is because basketball is naturally a game of runs, but you could just tell in our guys, that they get angrier (for lack of a better term) and more determined when things are not going well. Even the second half last night, we went from 7 down to tied in about 2 minutes, and only a made contested 3 gave Ashville the momentum back.

Unfortunatly, this trait seems like inherent qualities in these players that I'm not sure can be fixed, Harrison in particular. At least, that's what it looks like from a distance.
 
Next home game, I'm almost gonna root for us to get off to a bad start.

There's been exceptions on both sides this year, but it seems like, when we're behind, the guys pick it up on both sides of the ball. They're more aggresive, and that seems to be when most of the blocks and steals lead to easy hoops for us. When we're ahead, it's almost like we try to catch our breath, and the result is almost never good. Some of that is because basketball is naturally a game of runs, but you could just tell in our guys, that they get angrier (for lack of a better term) and more determined when things are not going well. Even the second half last night, we went from 7 down to tied in about 2 minutes, and only a made contested 3 gave Ashville the momentum back.

Unfortunatly, this trait seems like inherent qualities in these players that I'm not sure can be fixed, Harrison in particular. At least, that's what it looks like from a distance.
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That works against teams like NJIT and Holy Cross

Might not work so well when are you playing against Villanova and Cincinnati
 
I have a question for the boarders on this forum.

I am not asking this question on a hot-headed manner or in a facetious manner. It's an X's and O's question about bball - and I, admittedly, don't know a lot about X's and O's. So that's why I am asking this:

With regard to the weave that we run seemingly every time we go into our half court offense. How is it supposed to work or what is it supposed to accomplish?
Create opens shots for the players on the wings?
Create back-door passes?
Or get an man open in at the top of the key?
Or create driving lane opportunities by moving defenders around?
Something else?

Do any other teams runs that play bball at a high level run this kind of offense?

When the our teams runs it right now I don't really recall very much coming out of it, so I am trying to figure out what it is supposed to accomplish.

Again, I'm not asking this to put down our players or staff. We all know it's not clicking right now... but I'm just trying to figure out what the specific opportunities the weave is supposed to create as a result of running it.

Thanks in advance.
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I'm with you-don't know what it is supposed to accomplish. problem is I don't think Lavin does either. It did seem to work 80 years ago though.
 
I have a question for the boarders on this forum.

I am not asking this question on a hot-headed manner or in a facetious manner. It's an X's and O's question about bball - and I, admittedly, don't know a lot about X's and O's. So that's why I am asking this:

With regard to the weave that we run seemingly every time we go into our half court offense. How is it supposed to work or what is it supposed to accomplish?
Create opens shots for the players on the wings?
Create back-door passes?
Or get an man open in at the top of the key?
Or create driving lane opportunities by moving defenders around?
Something else?

Do any other teams runs that play bball at a high level run this kind of offense?

When the our teams runs it right now I don't really recall very much coming out of it, so I am trying to figure out what it is supposed to accomplish.

Again, I'm not asking this to put down our players or staff. We all know it's not clicking right now... but I'm just trying to figure out what the specific opportunities the weave is supposed to create as a result of running it.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Mainly to:

Take time off the shotclock and
Create an offensive mismatch/advantage for teams that switch on defense

And to answer your question, it is not an actual offense simply because we do not generate any play sets from it. The only game which we ran something out of it (ran it with a purpose) was the South Carolina game where guys were cutting back door, setting screens, etc. I've read some posters here try to call it a Motion offense. It is not a Motion offense. It is pretty much ran to isolate one of our guards up high. That's not a Motion offense.

Plenty of teams run a weave. Just they run it with a purpose. Back screens to free up a shooter, flares to get bigs in the paint, etc.

I watched the Butler/Indiana game and to see lower ranked Butler players do things so fundamentally sound on the offensive end just put a huge smile on my face.

We do not execute.

We run a weave down to 7 seconds left on the shotclock, Greene isolates, runs in the lane and hits a floater. That is not executing a play.

It's shameful. Shamefully obvious. And a poor excuse for a D-1 offense.
 
I have a question for the boarders on this forum.

I am not asking this question on a hot-headed manner or in a facetious manner. It's an X's and O's question about bball - and I, admittedly, don't know a lot about X's and O's. So that's why I am asking this:

With regard to the weave that we run seemingly every time we go into our half court offense. How is it supposed to work or what is it supposed to accomplish?
Create opens shots for the players on the wings?
Create back-door passes?
Or get an man open in at the top of the key?
Or create driving lane opportunities by moving defenders around?
Something else?

Do any other teams runs that play bball at a high level run this kind of offense?

When the our teams runs it right now I don't really recall very much coming out of it, so I am trying to figure out what it is supposed to accomplish.

Again, I'm not asking this to put down our players or staff. We all know it's not clicking right now... but I'm just trying to figure out what the specific opportunities the weave is supposed to create as a result of running it.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Mainly to:

Take time off the shotclock and
Create an offensive mismatch/advantage for teams that switch on defense

And to answer your question, it is not an actual offense simply because we do not generate any play sets from it. The only game which we ran something out of it (ran it with a purpose) was the South Carolina game where guys were cutting back door, setting screens, etc. I've read some posters here try to call it a Motion offense. It is not a Motion offense. It is pretty much ran to isolate one of our guards up high. That's not a Motion offense.

Plenty of teams run a weave. Just they run it with a purpose. Back screens to free up a shooter, flares to get bigs in the paint, etc.

I watched the Butler/Indiana game and to see lower ranked Butler players do things so fundamentally sound on the offensive end just put a huge smile on my face.

We do not execute.

We run a weave down to 7 seconds left on the shotclock, Greene isolates, runs in the lane and hits a floater. That is not executing a play.

It's shameful. Shamefully obvious. And a poor excuse for a D-1 offense.
Click to expand...

Its also a move that is used in practices to make sure that everyone touches the ball.

Plus you really want the ball back in Jamals hand after the weave is done.

This team will only get better. They have a lot going for them. I see them getting better already if the out a full 40 minutes together we can see what the can really do. I think we get a W in our next game.

BTW blocks and steals can get our transition games started and with Branch we can get transition passes up front. The transition part of the game is half of Lavins coaching play which is why you have players like Dom and Amir long defenders that can get in the passing lane or get up and block a shot. This gets us in transition where we can give it to a player like Harrison or Marco.

And Branch won't be a savior he will be a point guard that will help this team and I am disgusted with the lack of support for this team on this board. Smh
 
I didn`t listen to the game on radio, just watching the espn ticker. I assumed that they won with having a 12-13 point lead midway through the 2nd. Then I find out they lost this afternoon, and that really blew my mind and was wondering how that happened. So today I got the DailyNews and seen that UNC-Asheville went on a 23-4 run.
Are you freaking kidding me? This is against unc-Asheville not UNC. We were home to boot, and on here want to make excuses that oh yeah we`re young? Yeah tell that bs to whoever you want but they should have beaten that team, no excuses.
What because it`s Lavin people want to protect him, but I`ll call out whoever. Top coaching staffs have their young teams prepared for the other teams push.
I gave Lavin a pass in his 1st year (they were Norm`s players, last year (mostly all new players and no depth), so this year which is year 3 I suppose to give him another pass? Nah not this year. 17 should be doable after 13 wins last year. Anything under 17 wins is a damn failure.
 
I have a question for the boarders on this forum.

I am not asking this question on a hot-headed manner or in a facetious manner. It's an X's and O's question about bball - and I, admittedly, don't know a lot about X's and O's. So that's why I am asking this:

With regard to the weave that we run seemingly every time we go into our half court offense. How is it supposed to work or what is it supposed to accomplish?
Create opens shots for the players on the wings?
Create back-door passes?
Or get an man open in at the top of the key?
Or create driving lane opportunities by moving defenders around?
Something else?

Do any other teams runs that play bball at a high level run this kind of offense?

When the our teams runs it right now I don't really recall very much coming out of it, so I am trying to figure out what it is supposed to accomplish.

Again, I'm not asking this to put down our players or staff. We all know it's not clicking right now... but I'm just trying to figure out what the specific opportunities the weave is supposed to create as a result of running it.

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Mainly to:

Take time off the shotclock and
Create an offensive mismatch/advantage for teams that switch on defense

And to answer your question, it is not an actual offense simply because we do not generate any play sets from it. The only game which we ran something out of it (ran it with a purpose) was the South Carolina game where guys were cutting back door, setting screens, etc. I've read some posters here try to call it a Motion offense. It is not a Motion offense. It is pretty much ran to isolate one of our guards up high. That's not a Motion offense.

Plenty of teams run a weave. Just they run it with a purpose. Back screens to free up a shooter, flares to get bigs in the paint, etc.

I watched the Butler/Indiana game and to see lower ranked Butler players do things so fundamentally sound on the offensive end just put a huge smile on my face.

We do not execute.

We run a weave down to 7 seconds left on the shotclock, Greene isolates, runs in the lane and hits a floater. That is not executing a play.

It's shameful. Shamefully obvious. And a poor excuse for a D-1 offense.
Click to expand...

Its also a move that is used in practices to make sure that everyone touches the ball.

Plus you really want the ball back in Jamals hand after the weave is done.

This team will only get better. They have a lot going for them. I see them getting better already if the out a full 40 minutes together we can see what the can really do. I think we get a W in our next game.

BTW blocks and steals can get our transition games started and with Branch we can get transition passes up front. The transition part of the game is half of Lavins coaching play which is why you have players like Dom and Amir long defenders that can get in the passing lane or get up and block a shot. This gets us in transition where we can give it to a player like Harrison or Marco.

And Branch won't be a savior he will be a point guard that will help this team and I am disgusted with the lack of support for this team on this board. Smh
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Blocks and steals get our transition game started?

We're the best shot blocking team in the nation. So where are all of our transition points? We have none.

When we do get fastbreak opportunities, 3 guys jam up the lane and we pull it back out. Or if D'Angelo is leading the break himself, he jacks up a 3 with no rebounders underneath.

How come no shooters run to the corners? Isn't that taught during fast breaks?

Teams lose games they should win all the time. But not when a coach stands there with his hands in his pockets while the other team goes on a run after run.

Lack of support is not what I'm seeing here. More of being downright tired of passes being given and excuses being made for subpar effort from the top down.

Can you honestly say to yourself after watching 12 games this season that this team is well coached? What, if any, improvement areas have you seen so far since the Detroit game?

I'd really like to know.
 
Kenpom now ranks St.John's second to last in the Big East ahead of only DePaul and projects that the RedStorm will finish with a record of 14 wins and 16 losses overall and in conference record of just 6 wins and 12 losses.

Kenpom gives St.John's a 32% chance of winning its Big East opener against Villanova and projects a final losing score for the Storm of 70 to 65.

Let's hope Kenpom is wrong on both accounts.
 
This is an embarrassing loss.
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Stop with the copouts; coaching had nothing to do with the loss. We don't play hard, which is what defense and rebounding are about. On offense, we don't share the ball. That is on the players....we are certainly not a well coached team because the players aren't getting it but Lavin, Keady, etc, did not get stupid over the off-season.
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Why on Earth did you quote me? What does your response have to do with my opinion of what I thought of Friday's game?
 
I was at the game on Friday and I understand people's bad reaction to it (it was ugly), but I think some people might be a bit harsh here.

The sky is not falling, bad losses do happen. For example: Wednesday Canisius beat Temple by ten points. I am sure some fans of Temple were pretty upset with a double digit loss to a team from the MAAC (who also had lost to Stonybrook earlier this year). However just three days later that same Temple team ended #3 ranked Syracuse's undefeated season by beating them in the Garden. Which is the real Temple team, the one that lost on Wednesday to Canisius or the one on Saturday that beat Syracuse?

We played really well to build our 17 point lead against UNC-Asheville. With Branch finally on board It was the first time we were able to use our full roster of ten scholarship players to press full court. It was effective and we looked sharp and energized. We were dominant! It made my mind drift to conference byes and long NCAA tournament run fantasies

During the second half 23-4 run by Asheville we looked listless, with no flow on offense and no intensity on defense. The rotating of our ten players that brought energy to the floor in the first half stopped and several guys were glued to the bench down the stretch. The coaches stopped subbing and pressing full court. The players who were on the court were lacking intensity until Asheville was up by seven. I am not sure why the coaches changed tactics or why the guys on the court were not as intense as they needed to be, but this is a relatively young group who will have their growing pains.

Like Temple's uneven week I believe the truth about where we are right now is in between the two levels of performance we saw in the Asheville game. That being said the talent we have here gives me reason to believe we are going to improve, find more consistency and be a winning team in conference play. Give it a chance it is early yet.

A few years ago (during Norm's last year) some were saying that Dwight Hardy, DJ Kennedy, Justin Brownlee, Paris Horne and Justin Burrell were not talented enough to be D1 players. Yet under Lavin we found out that there was more talent there than anyone thought. It just needed to be molded properly and given time to grow.

Although I liked that team, I believe our current group has far more upside than that group did. It will happen for this group too. We just need to be patient (easier said than done) and trust the process.
 
This board cannot let go of the 2010 season.

When all else fails, just say "2010".

2010 is over folks. Time to move on.
 
This board cannot let go of the 2010 season.

When all else fails, just say "2010".

2010 is over folks. Time to move on.
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It's used as an example that things can turn around for the better when it seems bleak.
 
There is more than enough talent on this team to be very good. GG or Sanchez would help, yes, but even so, this could be a very good team. They need to gel, and the second year kids need to start playing like it. Only Harrison seems to be doing better (or as well) as last year. Sampson is great. But, if Pointer, Greene and Garrett could show some development as was reasonable to expect, we would be very competitive.
 
There is more than enough talent on this team to be very good. GG or Sanchez would help, yes, but even so, this could be a very good team. They need to gel, and the second year kids need to start playing like it. Only Harrison seems to be doing better (or as well) as last year. Sampson is great. But, if Pointer, Greene and Garrett could show some development as was reasonable to expect, we would be very competitive.
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AS THEY SAY IN MISSOURI------------- SHOW ME
 
I was at the game on Friday and I understand people's bad reaction to it (it was ugly), but I think some people might be a bit harsh here.

The sky is not falling, bad losses do happen. For example: Wednesday Canisius beat Temple by ten points. I am sure some fans of Temple were pretty upset with a double digit loss to a team from the MAAC (who also had lost to Stonybrook earlier this year). However just three days later that same Temple team ended #3 ranked Syracuse's undefeated season by beating them in the Garden. Which is the real Temple team, the one that lost on Wednesday to Canisius or the one on Saturday that beat Syracuse?

We played really well to build our 17 point lead against UNC-Asheville. With Branch finally on board It was the first time we were able to use our full roster of ten scholarship players to press full court. It was effective and we looked sharp and energized. We were dominant! It made my mind drift to conference byes and long NCAA tournament run fantasies

During the second half 23-4 run by Asheville we looked listless, with no flow on offense and no intensity on defense. The rotating of our ten players that brought energy to the floor in the first half stopped and several guys were glued to the bench down the stretch. The coaches stopped subbing and pressing full court. The players who were on the court were lacking intensity until Asheville was up by seven. I am not sure why the coaches changed tactics or why the guys on the court were not as intense as they needed to be, but this is a relatively young group who will have their growing pains.

Like Temple's uneven week I believe the truth about where we are right now is in between the two levels of performance we saw in the Asheville game. That being said the talent we have here gives me reason to believe we are going to improve, find more consistency and be a winning team in conference play. Give it a chance it is early yet.

A few years ago (during Norm's last year) some were saying that Dwight Hardy, DJ Kennedy, Justin Brownlee, Paris Horne and Justin Burrell were not talented enough to be D1 players. Yet under Lavin we found out that there was more talent there than anyone thought. It just needed to be molded properly and given time to grow.

Although I liked that team, I believe our current group has far more upside than that group did. It will happen for this group too. We just need to be patient (easier said than done) and trust the process.
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Temple just beat #3 Cuse. Did our team do that? No. End of discussion...bad comparison. Yes every team has bad losses, but we still haven't beat any national studs. This would hurt a lot less if we beat #16 Baylor or Murray State. We did not. When you mix losing to the teams that might be better with losing to teams that are supposed to be cupcakes, it's a recipe for the Big East basement. Our best win is Detroit right now. We are a team with tons and tons of the best recruits in the country...we need to do better and fast. How long do we have to wait for this team to be better than just good once every decade? This is why I said no way we win 20 games at the beginning of the season...SJ has been as bad as the Mets in the past decade. There is no excuse to make at this point...we are just a bad team. Notice most of the other Big East teams don't have this problem...they mostly beat who they should and beat other good teams. Other teams find ways to score efficiently...we don't. All we do is stand 5 ft beyond the 3 pt arc, weave it around with no one open, and when there's 7 seconds left we panic, play iso and shoot a bad shot that clunks off the rim. I'm sick of this crap. And stop saying it's still early...we are basically at the mid point of the season. It's put up or shut up time. Our season is derailed unless we can pull off a few big upsets and get back in the conversation i.e. L'Ville, G'Town, Cincy, etc. You just know either Seton Hall, DePaul, or Providence will beat us, so it makes it all the more important to beat some big guys like we couldn't do last year until the end.
 
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