UNC- ASH
- Thread starter ccnobz
- Start date
Recruiting, when done right, cotinues to replenish the cupboard. Unfortunately takes a number of cycles to get to the point when kids leaving early doesn't result in a restart. That said, while it will be nice to make some noise while Harrison and Sampson are here, I am confident that Lavin will continue to restock.
Recruiting when done right results in a balanced team with solid contributors at each position. Then when someone gets ready to leave you restock the position. That was always Lou's strong point. He always seemed to have a player in his pocket whether a ranked kid or a sleeper with potential. He didn't go without PGs or centers etc and that's why he got consistent results not having to reinvent the wheel every year. Norm Roberts always shopped off the ranked lists and settled for leftovers when he couldn't attract kids. That's how he always wound up with six 2Gs and kids out of position or not playing. He was also in love with Boothe which put the icing on a crumby cake. Now Steve recruits only athletes and ignores smart, tough kids who board and "D"up. He'd rather play Phil Greene out of position rather than a proven point not in the top 75. He also refuses to look at the 7 footers that the mid majors sign every year. Yeah, we can run and jump but we can't board and play "D". A team with a bunch of wings that can't get off the ground.
There is no debating that UNC Asheville was a terrible loss
The key is how the St. John's players respond to it against Villanova
Hopefully, the players look at this as an opportunity to prove the naysayers wrong
We'll find out soon enough what they are made out of
The key is how the St. John's players respond to it against Villanova
Hopefully, the players look at this as an opportunity to prove the naysayers wrong
We'll find out soon enough what they are made out of
Class of 72
Active member
You need not be reminded that this is year three, quickly going into year four.
Steve Lavin was NOT rebuilding from "rubble"-----Norm Roberts had that honor.
In Norm's last two years he won 16 and 17 games respectively.
In Lavin's second year, the actual "rubble" occurred! How?
No...not prostate cancer....Calhoun, Boeheim and a half dozen other coaches suffered the same dreaded disease.
It was caused by recruiting quantity over quality players. Players with questionable academics and the result was a bare to the bones roster of freshmen. He could have recruited a JC like Justin Brownlee, maybe two, but Lav is a gambler and he (and we) lost. Last year's record is proof of that gamble.
We appreciate Lav's recruiting top 100 players, something Norm was not adept at, but, are these players any more gifted offensively or defensively than Paris Horne, D.J. Kennedy, Justin Brownlee, Anthony Mason, Sean Evans, or Rob Thomas? So far, I have my doubts if we are all going to be satisfied that these players can only deliver 16 wins (see Norm Roberts 2009-10 team).
This year Lav is gambling again and the results may put him on the short leash. To play without your best rebounder by coaches decision and lose games because of it is mind boggling. To not have been aware of the Orlando Sanchez eligibilty issue reminds us of the players he recruited with similar issues that never materialized.....Jevon Thomas, Norvel Pelle, Darrick Woods of this gambling dude. Add the departure of Dwyane Polee who is a non-factor at San Diego State, and I begin to question our recruiting strategy.
I, for one, expect our team of sophs and highly ranked frosh to do better than Norm's unranked juniors. That Robrts team had FIVE scoring options---Brownlee, Hardy, Horne, Kenndy and Burrell.
Our supposedly more talented team has TWO---Sampson and Harrison.
We are not a balanced team.....period! How Branch and the Orlando/Gift outcomes are managed by Lavin will determine our fan interest from intense to apathetic.
The next two weeks will be the window of opportunity for Lavin to make smart coaching decisions.
STJClass_2013
Member
Can we get off Branch it was his first game. He did great but is not in peck performance yet. After his third or fourth game we should see an improvement. And this is why I love sports it doesn't matter what happened the game before. I think the talent is there to compete with almost anybody. If they can put it together and close out games I think we could do well. They were in the lead in at half against a team with 31 wins last year and Baylor. You look at the negatives but you have to look at the positives. If one player steps up and starts scoring or even the bench players we could be looking at a complete different team. For example: the 2010-2011 team that lost to Fordham was not the same team that beat Duke. I wasn't on here at the time but I'm sure it sounded similar to the way things sound here now. Merry Christmas.
And let's hope for a great new year for St. John's.
In the NBA, nobody is expecting a big difference between a 28 and a 24 year old. At the level, players have matured and grown into themselves.
However, there is a significant difference between a 22 year old senior and an 18 or 19 year old freshmen. Trust me, I want the team to win as much as I do. And yes, I am disappointed to see our team lose to mid-majors. But St. John's is a team of freshmen and sophomores. They are being outworked and outmuscled by players that have been been through the grind of college basketball for 3 and 4 years.
Your above statement about our players not being any better than DJ Kennedy, Paris Horne, Justin Burrell, Rob Thomas, Sean Evans, etc. is just completely absurd. We as fans were tearing that team apart and they looked far worse than this team ever did. With the exception of Kennedy and maybe Burrell in his freshman year, none of that team look like anything in their first initial years. Was there somebody on that team that could score like D'Angelo Harrison? Or could drive to the basket like JaKarr Sampson? Or could block shots like Chris Obekpa? Or who had the athleticism of Sir'Dom or Amir? I'm not trying to glorify our current team because I think they need to work a hell of a lot harder out there if they want to be successful. That being said, the talent level is enormously difference. If Harrison and Pointer and Amir were to stay all four years under Lavin, I guarantee you that you're talking about a Sweet Sixteen type of team. And if you manage to bring in some top talent like Jermaine Lawrence and/or Rysheed Jordan and others, that is only going to augment what we already have.
Again, I don't have rose colored glasses on. The coaching staff and players need to show more than what they did against San Francisco and UNC Asheville. But's let not rewind and compare them to the players Norm brought in. The talent level is much better at this stage in the game and I'm expecting that to continue under Lavin.
beast of the east
Active member
Lou never had to restock an entire team, which was one of NR's worst legacies, leaving LAvin with an entire team of seniors. When you have all those positions to fill, Lavin opted to recruit the very best players he could find the first two years. Going forward he can recruit positions
Class of 72
Active member
"Was there somebody on that team that could score like D'Angelo Harrison? "
Yes, you conveniently forgot Dwight Hardy.
Four of those players are playing professionally.
I hope four of the current kids get the same opportunity. I have not written them off because approaching the new year, we still do not have a resolution on Gift or Sanchez and it remains to be seen if this team will gel with Branch.
Hardy was not part of the class involving Kennedy, Horne, and Burrell. He went to Indian Hills CC and then transferred to St. John's for his junior and senior seasons. And he wasn't even relevant for SJ until his senior year.
What I'm saying is players take time to develop at the college level. Harrison, Greene, Pointer, and Garrett are all sophomores. Sampson, Obekpa, Balamou, and Jones are all freshmen. It is going to take time for these guys to be strong college players game in and game out. Nobody on this team is Carmelo Anthony or Anthony Davis or Michael Kidd Gilchrist. Players take time to develop at the college level.
DJ and Paris were damn good players as sophs and even Evans averaged 10 and seven that year. Kennedy was good for six boards or better his whole career and Paris played better "D" than anyone on this year's team while scoring in the teens and shooting well from three. When they finally got a decent PG they went right to the NCAAs. No way Boothe would have done that. The big problem here is only recruiting half a team for last year. Playing with six starters and no coach hurt us and the top 100 only philosophy isn't the answer. We're getting beat by kids who never smelled the top 100 who just play better team ball. How that happens is beyond me but the constant subbing isn't working out so far. By now some guys should have emerged and we should be approaching the BE with a shorter bench. God knows what that's going to look like
I remember crgreen posting long ago that Lavin experiments with lineups early in a season before he settles on a regular rotation; and that things may look a bit unsettled while we go through it. I don't presume to know more that the coach, nor do see up close what he is working on. I'm sure that he has a vision of where he wants this team to go and and idea how to get there. Whether it happens, we will find out.
I look at the BE schedule. Best case scenario, if we are clicking from day one, is 11-7. I am hoping for no worse that 9-9. We are two games behind where I was hoping we would be at this point and we would need a run in the BET for the possibility of an NCAA bid. I still have hope.
I look at the BE schedule. Best case scenario, if we are clicking from day one, is 11-7. I am hoping for no worse that 9-9. We are two games behind where I was hoping we would be at this point and we would need a run in the BET for the possibility of an NCAA bid. I still have hope.
At this late date I still can't decide between Amir and Dom and wonder if Felix offers more long term than either. I also think Marco offers more if he can cut it defensively. If we're going to outscore anyone (essential with our "D" ) we need a bomber beside DLo. They can't double them both. Haven't got a clue about the interior defense and rebounding but we need points to have a chance. Get a lead and then bring in Dom and Amir.