The Airing of the Grievances

[logen]

Then explain Josh Hart who is an absolute warrior and looked like he was shot in the abdomen 2 minutes into last nights game? Tell me there’s no wear and tear there, I’ll hang up and listen.

Again I’m a fan of Thibs but the guy destroyed Derrick Rose’s career and a few others. If you think 4 out of 8 rotation players going down is an aberration then I just don’t know what to say to you.

Because I look at facts, not emotion. Yours is the height of second guessing IMO. Randle dislocated his shoulder, it had nothing to do with minutes played. OG is injury prone and pulled a muscle running down the court. Mitchell Robinson was averaging less than 25 minutes a game, were his injuries from overuse?
As for Hart, EVERY NBA player has wear and tear at this time of year, every single player. The causal effect of that on the injury is for a doctor to discern, not a fan or sportswriter.
As for Derrick Rose, he played for Thibodeau I believe from 2010-2011 through 2015-2016. The first year he played 81 games, averaging 37.4 minutes. The 2 previous years he played 78 and 81 games averaging, 36.8 and 37 minutes. He then played in 39 games averaging 35.3 minutes, got hurt and played in 10 games the next year, followed by 51 and 66, topping off in the 66 game season at 31.8 minutes per game. The idea that Thibodeau ruined his career is nonsense, it just did not happen.

 

[Jack Williams]

The hart injury may have been wear and tear, but harts minutes lately have been out of necessity due to other injuries.

I’m just saying… the Randle, Mitch, OG, and Bogi injuries are not a Thibs issues to me. Maybe Randle shouldn’t have been in by the time he got hurt, but it was still a freak injury that happened because an opposing player tried to take a charge very late

 

[kranmars]

I guess we are airing our Thibs grievances now.

I am only dipping my toes in these shark infested waters, by adding this: I find it extremely difficult finding fault with Thibs coaching style now when he navigated the team, which is down 4 players, to game 7 of the second round of the playoffs

The Bogy and OG injuries were flukes. Robinson hurt himself again, because unfortunately big men get leg injuries often. Randall was pushed awkwardly (the f*cking Heat still found a way to screw the Knicks).

Most coaches play their best players 40 plus minutes in the playoffs, and then in the Knicks case, there is no other choice.

 

[paultzman]

I guess we are airing our Thibs grievances now.

I am only dipping my toes in these shark infested waters, by adding this: I find it extremely difficult finding fault with Thibs coaching style now when he navigated the team, which is down 4 players, to game 7 of the second round of the playoffs

The Bogy and OG injuries were flukes. Robinson hurt himself again, because unfortunately big men get leg injuries often. Randall was pushed awkwardly (the f*cking Heat still found a way to screw the Knicks).

Most coaches play their best players 40 plus minutes in the playoffs, and then in the Knicks case, there is no other choice.

Blame abounds w disregard for achievement to date

 

[NCJohnnie]

Blame abounds w disregard for achievement to date

You can love Thibs as a coach and appreciate what he's achieved with this group and still have questions about his playing guys too much (and that is not exactly an unusual opinion). Kind of like acknowledging Pitino is a great coach without worshipping at the altar and being afraid to question anything he does.

 

[logen]

You can love Thibs as a coach and appreciate what he's achieved with this group and still have questions about his playing guys too much (and that is not exactly an unusual opinion). Kind of like acknowledging Pitino is a great coach without worshipping at the altar and being afraid to question anything he does.

Agree but I just don’t think the facts paint the picture. Under any circumstances a huge leap for a fan to say how or why a player got hurt and the Rose scenario just isn’t supported at all by what actually happened, just a myth.

 

[dk423]

I'm really not sure how anyone can complain about Thibs' minutes this offseason. We've been down four rotation guys for most of it. What is he supposed to do?

 

[SJU85]

I must have missed something

Me too!

 

[NCJohnnie]

Agree but I just don’t think the facts paint the picture. Under any circumstances a huge leap for a fan to say how or why a player got hurt and the Rose scenario just isn’t supported at all by what actually happened, just a myth.

Didn’t follow Bulls enough to have an intelligent opinion on whether he ruined Derek’s career but doubt Derek would have been so enthusiastic about playing for him with Knicks if he thought that was the case.
I do watch the Knicks and believe he keeps starters in way too long and Randle injury was a result of that.

 

[sirvoo]

We are not talking about Thibs’ playing minutes right now in this moment when the locker room looks more like a triage unit.

Last I checked Burks was on the team last week and the week before that. He BURIES guys if he doesn’t trust them (tbh Burks sucked since he came from Detroit so I get it). If we all agree that OG is a walking injury then why are we not agreeing that playing him 46 minutes is BEGGING for an injury and therefore falls on his shoulders.

 

[dk423]

We are not talking about Thibs’ playing minutes right now in this moment when the locker room looks more like a triage unit.

Last I checked Burks was on the team last week and the week before that. He BURIES guys if he doesn’t trust them (tbh Burks sucked since he came from Detroit so I get it). If we all agree that OG is a walking injury then why are we not agreeing that playing him 46 minutes is BEGGING for an injury and therefore falls on his shoulders.

So that's the point. What's he supposed to do?

 

[dk423]

Also, Burks wasn't buried solely for performance -- although it was due -- he also had a sprained shoulder.

I'd be the first one to say I don't like guys playing 40+ minutes in the regular season. He has done that in games this year when we had a healthy team and it was ridiculous. But a lot of this season's injuries and the playoff stuff is dramatically overblown and not on him.

 

[sirvoo]

So that's the point. What's he supposed to do?

Burks seems pretty serviceable lately doesn't he? Maybe he was wrong to bury him and having him play 10-12 minutes a game could have shortened OG’s PT just a little bit.

A hammy going out like that is 100% correlated to fatigue! That’s not an opinion either.

Again I thought Burks sucked after the trade but you have to play somebody other than your stud players through the course of the season and to a slightly lesser extent in the postseason.

 

[NCJohnnie]

Burks seems pretty serviceable lately doesn't he? Maybe he was wrong to bury him and having him play 10-12 minutes a game could have shortened OG’s PT just a little bit.

A hammy going out like that is 100% correlated to fatigue! That’s not an opinion either.

Again I thought Burks sucked after the trade but you have to play somebody other than your stud players through the course of the season and to a slightly lesser extent in the postseason.

Just not controversial that Thibs plays an unusually short rotation with certain guys playing huge minutes. Pretty understandable that some would equate that with lots of injuries to those guys which has happened. I think the truth is somewhere in between but there is no way Randle should have been playing when he got injured imho.

 

[kranmars]

You can love Thibs as a coach and appreciate what he's achieved with this group and still have questions about his playing guys too much (and that is not exactly an unusual opinion). Kind of like acknowledging Pitino is a great coach without worshipping at the altar and being afraid to question anything he does.

I am hardly worshiping at the altar of Thibs. I am trying to stress the Knicks have been down four players.

You could easily find better moments to complain about Thibs’s distribution of minutes (or lack there of) during the Knicks current situation.

 

[sirvoo]

I am hardly worshiping at the altar of Thibs. I am trying to stress the Knicks have been down four players.

You could easily find better moments to complain about Thibs’s distribution of minutes (or lack there of) during the Knicks current situation.

100% there is no alternative now, that we can all agree on.

 

[sirvoo]

Just not controversial that Thibs plays an unusually short rotation with certain guys playing huge minutes. Pretty understandable that some would equate that with lots of injuries to those guys which has happened. I think the truth is somewhere in between but there is no way Randle should have been playing when he got injured imho.

General consensus is Randle should have been playing up 17 with 4+ minutes. A 10 point lead can be erased these days in 80 seconds. Fine.

There are 10 bench spots in the NBA I believe. If you can’t trust 5 other guys to play in that situation than I might as well be on the bench with NC Johnnie, DK, Logen and Kranmars FFS.

 

[Ralph318!]

So that's the point. What's he supposed to do?

Be more conservative with minutes during the regular season so players are rested for the postseason season and you expand your rotation in case of injury. Look at what Coach Rick does.
Those regular season minutes for the Knicks killed their bodies for the post season, and made them susceptible to overuse injuries.
This is on Tibs. Sorry.

 

[Jack Williams]

I am hardly worshiping at the altar of Thibs. I am trying to stress the Knicks have been down four players.

You could easily find better moments to complain about Thibs’s distribution of minutes (or lack there of) during the Knicks current situation.

+1000 and this is why I brought this up

People are trying to use the hart and OG injuries to be like “oh well… same old Thibs”

And I think it’s just unfair this year specifically. Freak injuries knocked this rotation down to nothing and the teams still fighting with what they have

 

[logen]

And just another frame of reference, the Knicks have four players in the Top 100 in minutes played for the season, Brunson at #10. OG is next at #24, Hart is at #28, DiVincenzo at #83. Criteria being you had to play at least 58 games.
Randle averaged the same minutes as Brunson 34.5 and Robinson averaged 24.8. Barrett when with the Knicks averaged 29.5.
So the idea that Thibodeau overused them just does not hold water. Obviously between the injuries mounting and the playoffs, minutes changed as has been shared by others.