The Airing of the Grievances

Redenbacher said:
This is crazy talk. Scheyer had 2 draft picks last year, his first year as head coach. This year, 2 Duke players are expected to be lottery picks.
Remind me: who was the last player Pitino got into the draft?
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Jon Scheyer had nothing to do with Lively getting drafted. He was a pro prospect since he hit puberty. Same goes for Whitehead. Scheyer didn't get those kids developed and drafted, they came in to Duke with their NBA Draft Day suits on.
 
NCJohnnie said:
Agree completely with your last two sentences but would add that a number of the blue blood coaches got their jobs at the blue blood schools due to coaching success at non blue blood schools. Scheyer and Davis of course don’t fall into that category and have proven little either way at this point.
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Agree with you as well. But it doesn't apply to Uncle Roy who launched his HC career at Kansas or Dean who only ever coached at UNC either. K, Self and Wooden worked their way up.
 
Redenbacher said:
Remind me: who was the last player Pitino got into the draft?
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Such a stupid comment and question. Not only was Rick out of basketball for a while, but then when he returned he was subsequently in the freaking MAAC. And even then - HIS GUY WHO HE DEVELOPED in Walter Clayton is going to be an NBA player this upcoming year. Daniss Jenkins has a chance to be on a roster at some point next year. A lot of guys are playing professionally overseas making big time money.

Joel Soriano is very likely going to be a rich man playing professional basketball overseas.

Donovan Mitchell is a superstar in the league who has made over $100 million on the court and a significant amount off of it as well. Terry Rozier is about to be a 10 year NBA pro.

Montrez Harrell, Gorgui Dieng...both very solid pros - plenty more.

It's such a lazy comment.
 
SJUDave said:
Such a stupid comment and question. Not only was Rick out of basketball for a while, but then when he returned he was subsequently in the freaking MAAC. And even then - HIS GUY WHO HE DEVELOPED in Walter Clayton is going to be an NBA player this upcoming year. Daniss Jenkins has a chance to be on a roster at some point next year. A lot of guys are playing professionally overseas making big time money.

Donovan Mitchell is a superstar in the league who has made over $100 million on the court and a significant amount off of it as well. Terry Rozier is about to be a 10 year NBA pro.

Montrez Harrell, Gorgui Dieng...both very solid pros - plenty more.

It's such a lazy comment.
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Just a few more quick ones.......

Jamal Mashburn
Antoine Walker
Tony Delk
Ron Mercer
Francisco Garcia
 
austour said:
Agree with you as well. But it doesn't apply to Uncle Roy who launched his HC career at Kansas or Dean who only ever coached at UNC either. K, Self and Wooden worked their way up.
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As did Calipari and Pitino before getting their jobs with the Blue Bloods.
 
SJUDave said:
Such a stupid comment and question. Not only was Rick out of basketball for a while, but then when he returned he was subsequently in the freaking MAAC. And even then - HIS GUY WHO HE DEVELOPED in Walter Clayton is going to be an NBA player this upcoming year.
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Then why did HIS GUY WHO HE DEVELOPED not follow him to SJU?

You also completely missed the point of my original post, which was that in this “what have you done for me lately?” era, kids may just be more swayed by a Duke/Scheyer program than an an SJU/Pitino program.

As for my comment being “stupid”- well, I’m sorry to have offended you, comrade. Free speech is a bitch, isn’t it?
 
Redenbacher said:
Then why did HIS GUY WHO HE DEVELOPED not follow him to SJU?

You also completely missed the point of my original post, which was that in this “what have you done for me lately?” era, kids may just be more swayed by a Duke/Scheyer program than an an SJU/Pitino program.

As for my comment being “stupid”- well, I’m sorry to have offended you, comrade. Free speech is a bitch, isn’t it?
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Before this past season Pitino hadn’t been at a power 5 school since 2017–where he sent Mitchell to the pros. So the what have you done for me lately, say Scheyer was at Iona and Pitino at Duke, who was Scheyer sending there ?
 
NCJohnnie said:
Completely premature to make any kind of judgment on Scheier's ability as head coach to develop guys for NBA, positive or negative. He has only coached 2 years. He does have a .750 winning percentage and is 4-2 in the dance but given where he is coaching, hard to base too much on that. He certainly hasn't been anything close to a flop though.
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He's no Kyle Neptune
 
vegasman2000 said:
He's no Kyle Neptune
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Scheyer is better than Kyle Neptune, OK you win that one.

But it's a good comp because he is not a Duke-level coach any more than Neptune is a Nova-level coach. Both guys who are in their jobs because they are part of the family and the legend wanted them to have the job. Both will be gone sooner rather than later - and I'm not even sure Neptune will be first.

The portal is a huge problem for Duke - they can't add players from it due to academic standards, they lose players to it (just look at the current carnage) and it's tough to win with freshmen playing against 23-year olds - just ask Calipari. And Scheyer is not a coaching genius who can overcome that.
 
lawmanfan said:
Scheyer is better than Kyle Neptune, OK you win that one.

But it's a good comp because he is not a Duke-level coach any more than Neptune is a Nova-level coach. Both guys who are in their jobs because they are part of the family and the legend wanted them to have the job. Both will be gone sooner rather than later - and I'm not even sure Neptune will be first.
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So getting to the Elite Eight in year 2 as head coach isn’t good enough for you? Tough crowd. And don’t say “he got there because it’s Duke”. There were plenty of seasons under Coach K when they didn’t make it that far.

I agree with you that recruiting is a major issue, but that’s hardly unique to them.
 
Redenbacher said:
So getting to the Elite Eight in year 2 as head coach isn’t good enough for you? Tough crowd. And don’t say “he got there because it’s Duke”. There were plenty of seasons under Coach K when they didn’t make it that far.

I agree with you that recruiting is a major issue, but that’s hardly unique to them.
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They beat Houston only because of the Shead injury. They lost 2 out of 3 to NC State. This with three NBA players on the roster. Scheyer has done a great job recruiting high-level high school talent (it's good to be Duke!), not such an awesome job coaching it.

While the portal is not "unique" to them, it affects a limited number of schools of which they are one (Michigan, Notre Dame, Stanford are the other 3 that come to mind).

Duke will stay competitive with freshmen the same way Calipari kept Kentucky competitive, plus they have the advantage of being in a conference with only a few good teams and a lot of mediocre ones. But Scheyer's high school recruiting is unlikely to overcome his mediocre tactical skills and the difficulty he will have recruiting the portal (while also losing players to the portal). That combined with Duke expectation level is not an awesome combination for him.
 
Redenbacher said:
No, not at all. But dismissing Duke as a competing program to SJU in terms of prospects who have NBA ambitions is insane.
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Don't mean to dismiss it, but I would say coaching matters most when it comes to player development for the pros. Rick Pitino has the better track record than Scheyer, so we're a better option. I'm not even trying to say Duke is a bad option necessarily. But we're the better one.

I actually think Scheyer's results have been impressive, given the expectations. The worst job you can take is following a legend, especially if its your first one. He's done very well. Just don't think someone can say for an individual player's hopes of reaching the NBA, they should trust him more than Pitino.
 
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