Tariq Owens

Here's the other thing with Tariq. He didn't just come here for a year and jump ship. He spent three years at SJU and graduated from the school; during the first year he helped his teammates in practice and during the last two he was a great teammate, always gave us 100% and represented the school well. Not sure a criticism of his "loyalty" is merited. What about when the school recruits over kids and forces them out as happened with Amar (before we asked him back when we lost others)? Is that also a lack of loyalty? Most would say it is the program doing what is best for it. Don't these kids have the same right to do what's best for them?
Tariq and Simon are two of my favorite Johnnies of the Mullin era, in part because while they have some deficiencies as players, they always give 100% and are/were great teammates. I would hate to see Simon leave as a grad transfer just like I hated to see Tariq leave, but if he were to leave, I would root for him to succeed except when his team plays St. Johns. Just my opinion.
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=325491]Here's the other thing with Tariq. He didn't just come here for a year and jump ship. He spent three years at SJU and graduated from the school; during the first year he helped his teammates in practice and during the last two he was a great teammate, always gave us 100% and represented the school well. Not sure a criticism of his "loyalty" is merited. What about when the school recruits over kids and forces them out as happened with Amar (before we asked him back when we lost others)? Is that also a lack of loyalty? Most would say it is the program doing what is best for it. Don't these kids have the same right to do what's best for them?
Tariq and Simon are two of my favorite Johnnies of the Mullin era, in part because while they have some deficiencies as players, they always give 100% and are/were great teammates. I would hate to see Simon leave as a grad transfer just like I hated to see Tariq leave, but if he were to leave, I would root for him to succeed except when his team plays St. Johns. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Thank you. People need to remember this, when you talk badly about Tariq, just remember you are talking bad about a SJU graduate.

And can we not get into the habit of questioning the loyalty of people who leave our school. We’d never say that about the multiple kids who have come here and left a school of their own.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=325493][quote="NCJohnnie" post=325491]Here's the other thing with Tariq. He didn't just come here for a year and jump ship. He spent three years at SJU and graduated from the school; during the first year he helped his teammates in practice and during the last two he was a great teammate, always gave us 100% and represented the school well. Not sure a criticism of his "loyalty" is merited. What about when the school recruits over kids and forces them out as happened with Amar (before we asked him back when we lost others)? Is that also a lack of loyalty? Most would say it is the program doing what is best for it. Don't these kids have the same right to do what's best for them?
Tariq and Simon are two of my favorite Johnnies of the Mullin era, in part because while they have some deficiencies as players, they always give 100% and are/were great teammates. I would hate to see Simon leave as a grad transfer just like I hated to see Tariq leave, but if he were to leave, I would root for him to succeed except when his team plays St. Johns. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Thank you. People need to remember this, when you talk badly about Tariq, just remember you are talking bad about a SJU graduate.

And can we not get into the habit of questioning the loyalty of people who leave our school. We’d never say that about the multiple kids who have come here and left a school of their own.[/quote] And it's going to get a lot worse if that rule of instant eligibility happens

We poached him then we got poached. It happens
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=325491]Here's the other thing with Tariq. He didn't just come here for a year and jump ship. He spent three years at SJU and graduated from the school; during the first year he helped his teammates in practice and during the last two he was a great teammate, always gave us 100% and represented the school well. Not sure a criticism of his "loyalty" is merited. What about when the school recruits over kids and forces them out as happened with Amar (before we asked him back when we lost others)? Is that also a lack of loyalty? Most would say it is the program doing what is best for it. Don't these kids have the same right to do what's best for them?
Tariq and Simon are two of my favorite Johnnies of the Mullin era, in part because while they have some deficiencies as players, they always give 100% and are/were great teammates. I would hate to see Simon leave as a grad transfer just like I hated to see Tariq leave, but if he were to leave, I would root for him to succeed except when his team plays St. Johns. Just my opinion.[/quote/]

You make good points NCJ about in essence ‘what’s good for the goose is good for the gander’ and I do not favor recruiting over players ‘to improve the program’.
A commitment to play college sports on good faith is a tacit contract committed to by both parties; it’s a ‘word bond’ and should be honored by both parties.
While I wish Tariq well, it’s undeniable that he left us in the lurch, lost faith in the program, and jumped to TT—a better team than St. John’s at that time, and probably now.
He’s not the ‘go-to’ guy there nor was he here, but—as you say—he plays hard, is a good teammate, and his loss has been felt by our team this year.
He did what he did for personal reasons. Fine. it is what it is and I hope he succeeds in pursuing his pro dreams.
But I do not have to like or support his decision and I don’t.
And I do question his ‘loyalty’.
 
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Chicago Days wrote: I do not favor recruiting over players ‘to improve the program’.

So Chicago are you saying you would have preferred if we did not recruit Simon and instead stuck with Malik Ellison? Just not the way college basketball works.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=325496]Chicago Days wrote: I do not favor recruiting over players ‘to improve the program’.

So Chicago are you saying you would have preferred if we did not recruit Simon and instead stuck with Malik Ellison? Just not the way college basketball works.[/quote]
You recruit the best players you can get and then who deserves to play plays.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=325496]Chicago Days wrote: I do not favor recruiting over players ‘to improve the program’.

So Chicago are you saying you would have preferred if we did not recruit Simon and instead stuck with Malik Ellison? Just not the way college basketball works.[/quote]

Ellison left because of PT concerns. Maybe, he should’ve stayed. Maybe he’d be a better player today if he had.
Tariq left to shoot more 3s.
He’s not, nor has he gotten more PT.
That’s fine. It was his decision.
I don’t have to like it, and neither will I celebrate the guy as some St. John’s ‘hero’.
He’s not that either.
No loyalty.
 
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[quote="NCJohnnie" post=325496]Chicago Days wrote: I do not favor recruiting over players ‘to improve the program’.

So Chicago are you saying you would have preferred if we did not recruit Simon and instead stuck with Malik Ellison? Just not the way college basketball works.[/quote]

This is my last word on ‘Tariq’ and transfers.
I actually support the idea of ‘transfers’ and the ‘loosening’ of the transfer rules because it somewhat levels the playing field between colleges and athletes.
So, I do not have an issue with kids transferring to get more PT and to revive their careers.
But, Tariq left for ‘delusional’ reasons of wanting to shoot more 3s and be a more integral part of the offense than he was here.
How’d that work out for him?
He’s playing less with nearly identical stats.
My point is, we treated the guy well, we needed the guy and he left.
While that’s fine and it happens these days about every day and I do wish him well, Im not going to celebrate him as a St. John’s hero.
IF Sid Wilson succeeds at UCONN, will he be celebrated on this Board?
Not for a second.
And he shouldn’t be.
Right, Sid departure and Tariq’s departure are markedly different.
Sid stayed a month and UCONN ‘stole him’.
Tariq stayed 3 years and became a key player for us during his time here...and he left for greener pastures.
I can actually give Wilson a pass, easier than I can Tariq—because Tariq, as a key guy on our team, walked away from strong connections here...to be a player he isn’t.
That’s foolish.
But hey, good luck to him.
I just don’t like they way he left, so I will not celebrate the guy as a St. John’s hero.
 
Chicago Days wrote: This is my last word on ‘Tariq’ and transfers.
I actually support the idea of ‘transfers’ and the ‘loosening’ of the transfer rules because it somewhat levels the playing field between colleges and athletes.
So, I do not have an issue with kids transferring to get more PT and to revive their careers.
But, Tariq left for ‘delusional’ reasons of wanting to shoot more 3s and be a more integral part of the offense than he was here.
How’d that work out for him?
He’s playing less with nearly identical stats.
My point is, we treated the guy well, we needed the guy and he left.
While that’s fine and it happens these days about every day and I do wish him well, Im not going to celebrate him as a St. John’s hero.
IF Sid Wilson succeeds at UCONN, will he be celebrated on this Board?
Not for a second.
And he shouldn’t be.
Right, Sid departure and Tariq’s departure are markedly different.
Sid stayed a month and UCONN ‘stole him’.
Tariq stayed 3 years and became a key player for us during his time here...and he left for greener pastures.
I can actually give Wilson a pass, easier than I can Tariq—because Tariq, as a key guy on our team, walked away from strong connections here...to be a player he isn’t.
That’s foolish.
But hey, good luck to him.
I just don’t like they way he left, so I will not celebrate the guy as a St. John’s hero.


Chicago, I was going to leave it alone, but I can't after this post. On the one hand, you say you don't support recruiting over players. Well that is exactly what the staff did when they recruited Simon to play over Ellison. Don't recall a lot of indignation then. Guess loyalty only goes one way?
Now you say you can more easily excuse Sid Wilson's leaving than Tariq???? Tariq gave us three good years and is a graduate of St. John's University. Sorry, I'm completely missing the logic there.
Finally as to why Tariq left, I think all most of us know is he left because he thought that was best for him, which is exactly what I'd like my kid to do in a simllar situation. Was he quoted it was to shoot more threes or was that just sour grapes on redmen.com?
As far as this tacit contract to play for only one school, that is unrealistic in today's world. I look at it the same way I look at corporate America. I worked for only two companies in my career. When I left the first one, I left it knowing that the move was best for me and that if my first company felt it was best for them, they would have let me go with no hesitation. I think all you owe a company or a school is loyalty and best efforts while you are at that company or school. Nothing more.
In any event, we just disagree on this one, on to Xavier and success in Big East tourney.
My last word on this topic other than to say I will follow Tariq, Malik Ellison and other SJU team alumni who were good reps while with us and hope they succeed where they are now.
 
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Chicago, it look at this quote from TO from when he announced he was leaving.

"Nothing made me want to leave St. John's per say. It's my last year. It hasn't gone how we expected it to go, for everybody not just me. We expected ourselves to be somewhere else we didn't get to. That alone would make anybody weigh their options." -- Tariq Owens. #sjubb

Sounds to me like you are kind of going off of what you heard about him wanting to shoot 3s, but to me it sounds like a huge part of this was he was convinced by TT that he could play for a real contender. And listen, we’ve had a good year. But Texas Tech has a shot to be a 3 seed in this tournament.

Also, no one is saying he should be a St. John’s hero. No one. But killing the guy for having “no loyalty” doesn’t make much sense. He stayed here for years and graduated, according to the rules he could go anywhere he wanted and play immediately, he went to a school better suited to make a championship run. That’s a fact.

Also I don’t understand your line of thinking with 3pt thing anyway. If Simon came here to prove he could be a 3pt shooter, and it clearly hasn’t happened, should Arizona fans be angry with him for trying to accomplish something and failing??
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=325510]Chicago, it look at this quote from TO from when he announced he was leaving.

"Nothing made me want to leave St. John's per say. It's my last year. It hasn't gone how we expected it to go, for everybody not just me. We expected ourselves to be somewhere else we didn't get to. That alone would make anybody weigh their options." -- Tariq Owens. #sjubb

Sounds to me like you are kind of going off of what you heard about him wanting to shoot 3s, but to me it sounds like a huge part of this was he was convinced by TT that he could play for a real contender. And listen, we’ve had a good year. But Texas Tech has a shot to be a 3 seed in this tournament.

Also, no one is saying he should be a St. John’s hero. No one. But killing the guy for having “no loyalty” doesn’t make much sense. He stayed here for years and graduated, according to the rules he could go anywhere he wanted and play immediately, he went to a school better suited to make a championship run. That’s a fact.

Also I don’t understand your line of thinking with 3pt thing anyway. If Simon came here to prove he could be a 3pt shooter, and it clearly hasn’t happened, should Arizona fans be angry with him for trying to accomplish something and failing??[/quote]

Simon barely played his 1 year at AZ—far different than Tariq’s role at St. John’s.
I’m not ‘killing’ the guy for ‘no loyzlty’, I just don’t like the way he left the team.
But, we can disagree.
On to Xavier!
Big game...ain’t they all!
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=325509]Chicago Days wrote: This is my last word on ‘Tariq’ and transfers.
I actually support the idea of ‘transfers’ and the ‘loosening’ of the transfer rules because it somewhat levels the playing field between colleges and athletes.
So, I do not have an issue with kids transferring to get more PT and to revive their careers.
But, Tariq left for ‘delusional’ reasons of wanting to shoot more 3s and be a more integral part of the offense than he was here.
How’d that work out for him?
He’s playing less with nearly identical stats.
My point is, we treated the guy well, we needed the guy and he left.
While that’s fine and it happens these days about every day and I do wish him well, Im not going to celebrate him as a St. John’s hero.
IF Sid Wilson succeeds at UCONN, will he be celebrated on this Board?
Not for a second.
And he shouldn’t be.
Right, Sid departure and Tariq’s departure are markedly different.
Sid stayed a month and UCONN ‘stole him’.
Tariq stayed 3 years and became a key player for us during his time here...and he left for greener pastures.
I can actually give Wilson a pass, easier than I can Tariq—because Tariq, as a key guy on our team, walked away from strong connections here...to be a player he isn’t.
That’s foolish.
But hey, good luck to him.
I just don’t like they way he left, so I will not celebrate the guy as a St. John’s hero.


Chicago, I was going to leave it alone, but I can't after this post. On the one hand, you say you don't support recruiting over players. Well that is exactly what the staff did when they recruited Simon to play over Ellison. Don't recall a lot of indignation then. Guess loyalty only goes one way?
Now you say you can more easily excuse Sid Wilson's leaving than Tariq???? Tariq gave us three good years and is a graduate of St. John's University. Sorry, I'm completely missing the logic there.
Finally as to why Tariq left, I think all most of us know is he left because he thought that was best for him, which is exactly what I'd like my kid to do in a simllar situation. Was he quoted it was to shoot more threes or was that just sour grapes on redmen.com?
As far as this tacit contract to play for only one school, that is unrealistic in today's world. I look at it the same way I look at corporate America. I worked for only two companies in my career. When I left the first one, I left it knowing that the move was best for me and that if my first company felt it was best for them, they would have let me go with no hesitation. I think all you owe a company or a school is loyalty and best efforts while you are at that company or school. Nothing more.
In any event, we just disagree on this one, on to Xavier and success in Big East tourney.
My last word on this topic other than to say I will follow Tariq, Malik Ellison and other SJU team alumni who were good reps while with us and hope they succeed where they are now.[/quote]

I did not oppose Simon coming here, no way. Those days were days of flux at St. John’s with the clear need to markedly improve the roster. But I wanted Ellison to stay as well as Mussini...and we could’ve used them last year after LoVett abandoned us.
We’ll disagree, but Tariq left following 3 years being a teammate at St. John’s—not for not playing, but for other reasons—at a time we needed him to stay.
On to Xavier indeed.
Nervous X seems to be peaking now!
Let’s go St. John’s!
 
I am completely ambivalent about Tariq. He could have helped us a lot, but he didn't want to be here anymore. That's fine. The only thing I would say is, after his career is over, he is not a player I would want to see recognized on the jumbo-tron at Carnesecca or MSG. Save that for players who bleed Johnny red (i.e. DLO, Pointer, Postell, DJ Kennedy, Hardy, Hatten, etc).

Also....not a fan of Tariq's dad. #phony
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=325532]I am completely ambivalent about Tariq. He could have helped us a lot, but he didn't want to be here anymore. That's fine. The only thing I would say is, after his career is over, he is not a player I would want to see recognized on the jumbo-tron at Carnesecca or MSG. Save that for players who bleed Johnny red (i.e. DLO, Pointer, Postell, DJ Kennedy, Hardy, Hatten, etc).

Also....not a fan of Tariq's dad. #phony[/quote]

Bullseye, JF.
Thanks.
 
[quote="Chicago Days" post=325511][quote="Jack Williams" post=325510]Chicago, it look at this quote from TO from when he announced he was leaving.

"Nothing made me want to leave St. John's per say. It's my last year. It hasn't gone how we expected it to go, for everybody not just me. We expected ourselves to be somewhere else we didn't get to. That alone would make anybody weigh their options." -- Tariq Owens. #sjubb

Sounds to me like you are kind of going off of what you heard about him wanting to shoot 3s, but to me it sounds like a huge part of this was he was convinced by TT that he could play for a real contender. And listen, we’ve had a good year. But Texas Tech has a shot to be a 3 seed in this tournament.

Also, no one is saying he should be a St. John’s hero. No one. But killing the guy for having “no loyalty” doesn’t make much sense. He stayed here for years and graduated, according to the rules he could go anywhere he wanted and play immediately, he went to a school better suited to make a championship run. That’s a fact.

Also I don’t understand your line of thinking with 3pt thing anyway. If Simon came here to prove he could be a 3pt shooter, and it clearly hasn’t happened, should Arizona fans be angry with him for trying to accomplish something and failing??[/quote]

Simon barely played his 1 year at AZ—far different than Tariq’s role at St. John’s.
I’m not ‘killing’ the guy for ‘no loyzlty’, I just don’t like the way he left the team.
But, we can disagree.
On to Xavier!
Big game...ain’t they all![/quote]

I would say most of us have had their opinion of Owens adulterated by the loud mouthed rants of Renard.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=325510]Chicago, it look at this quote from TO from when he announced he was leaving.

"Nothing made me want to leave St. John's per say. It's my last year. It hasn't gone how we expected it to go, for everybody not just me. We expected ourselves to be somewhere else we didn't get to. That alone would make anybody weigh their options." -- Tariq Owens. #sjubb

Sounds to me like you are kind of going off of what you heard about him wanting to shoot 3s, but to me it sounds like a huge part of this was he was convinced by TT that he could play for a real contender. And listen, we’ve had a good year. But Texas Tech has a shot to be a 3 seed in this tournament.
[/quote]

Tariq announced his transfer April 9. At that time LJ wasn't even committed (April 20) and Heron wasn't even a consideration (announced he was pulling out of the draft and transferring May 29) which means the starting lineup for 18/19 was looking like it was about same as finished 17/18 with Keita replacing Bashir and Dixon being the first off the bench. If LJ and Heron don't show up that's an NIT team so maybe besides looking for another system perhaps he also wanted a tourney opportunity.

However TT were losing 6 of their top 8 scorers, and Mooney didn't announce his grad transfer until May so I'm not sure what he would have seen at TT to make him think they had great prospects for this year, unless it was the coach and staff or maybe he just had connections with one or more of them. Beard has done great wherever he's been but the body of work isn't huge, especially at the High D1 level.

TO gave STJ 3 years so I give him the benefit of the doubt as there could be a dozen other things impacting his decision that none of us know about.
 
Also I discredit the 3 pt shooting thing since Mullin allows anyone to take the open three regardless of who, where, when or why. He may have had other issues with the offense but I can't believe that the number of 3's was an issue, no matter what his dad or others have said or implied.
 
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[quote="austour" post=325616][quote="Jack Williams" post=325510]Chicago, it look at this quote from TO from when he announced he was leaving.

"Nothing made me want to leave St. John's per say. It's my last year. It hasn't gone how we expected it to go, for everybody not just me. We expected ourselves to be somewhere else we didn't get to. That alone would make anybody weigh their options." -- Tariq Owens. #sjubb

Sounds to me like you are kind of going off of what you heard about him wanting to shoot 3s, but to me it sounds like a huge part of this was he was convinced by TT that he could play for a real contender. And listen, we’ve had a good year. But Texas Tech has a shot to be a 3 seed in this tournament.
[/quote]

Tariq announced his transfer April 9. At that time LJ wasn't even committed (April 20) and Heron wasn't even a consideration (announced he was pulling out of the draft and transferring May 29) which means the starting lineup for 18/19 was looking like it was about same as finished 17/18 with Keita replacing Bashir and Dixon being the first off the bench. If LJ and Heron don't show up that's an NIT team so maybe besides looking for another system perhaps he also wanted a tourney opportunity.

However TT were losing 6 of their top 8 scorers, and Mooney didn't announce his grad transfer until May so I'm not sure what he would have seen at TT to make him think they had great prospects for this year, unless it was the coach and staff or maybe he just had connections with one or more of them. Beard has done great wherever he's been but the body of work isn't huge, especially at the High D1 level.

TO gave STJ 3 years so I give him the benefit of the doubt as there could be a dozen other things impacting his decision that none of us know about.[/quote]

I thought the timeline was Tariq announced he was leaving on April 9, which opened up a scholarship that was used on LJ. Then when Heron hit the radar Diakite "decided" to transfer. It would have taken some creative moves to have LJ, Heron and Tariq all on the current roster. I really liked Tariq, but not over three years of LJ or over Heron.
 
When Owens left it wasn’t clear Texas Tech was even a tournament team with all of their losses. Jarrett Culver changed that single-handedly going from a 3* recruit two years ago to not starting last year to a lottery pick this. He is the most improved college player in the country.

Owens left a starting role and big minutes for less of a role on a team that was only projected to be slightly better than us.

Simon was in over his head at Arizona. It’s a different situation. Transferring twice is a bad look. Both teams improved when Owens left too. If he wasn’t playing I’d understand, but he was and he was a leader.
 
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