Stith student assistant
- Thread starter cavalier86
- Start date
Wherein lies my claim to an "...ability to read other people's minds as to motivations and reactions to life's events...[?]" Nor do I claim to have any knowledge of the details of the man's state of health.
I am - like you - merely expressing a viewpoint - ridiculous though it may be.
I don't know whether Stith had NBA aspirations or not. Most kids who play collegiately (especially, major D-1 sports)have some form of aspirations to play professionally, whether it's the NBA, NFL, MLB or whatever. Contrary, to what you may believe.... There are some folks on these boards that are close or have contacts that are close to the program. So, maybe the poster in question is just spewing hot air or he has heard from good sources about Stith's aspirations.
Yes, he transferred. But, his dad played a major role in that situation.
Who said those grades were actually "bogus?" Do you know they were bogus? It sounds like you're doing the same thing you're blaming one particular poster, in reference to Stith. The grades could've been bogus or they could've been legit. I guess this is the first time any school has had problems getting in their freshmen.
Questioning when someone should come back from sick leave (not just your normal "sick leave") just doesn't quite sit right with me. Yes, those coaches came back in a few weeks, but so what? Lavin noticed the roster is shorthanded, and since he lost Gathers in the fall and Lindsey after the first few games, he knew he had to recoup the roster ASAP. If, he brings in a solid class in the fall, then what are you gonna say?
Three guys have reneged. One of 'em is still in play (Sampson); the other one we lost (Gathers); and, the latter one may not even be eligible to play college basketball next season (Wood). I would've loved to have heard you, if Wood came aboard then ended up ineligible.
From what has been said, he was becoming a problem. If you watched any of the games after Texas A&M, it was apparent that something wasn't right with him. I liked him and wished he was still around, but you can't have dissension. Especially, with such a young team. In the end, I felt it was worth losing him in the long run. Not to mention, he also may not play college basketball again. It remains to be seen.
It hurts to lose Stith due to the depth of the team and how it may looks to the casual observer, but Stith probably saw the writing on the wall. It's unfortunate, but he probably was better served playing in a smaller conference.
We all know this.... Your point?
Most of us noticed that, as well.... Once again, your point?
boo haarvey
Active member
Ahh MJ Dinkins, the biggest optimist of them all. I reference seven different events that have befallen the program within the last 9 months, all of which are negative. You attempt to explain them away as if there is no connection. When three kids are declared ineligible, three additional kids quit the team, the coach is unable or unwilling to coach for the season and the squad barely has enough scholarship players to field a team, I'd say that there's a fundamental problem with the program. I will address each of your counterpoints in turn,
(1) Polee Transfer: Ahh -- the old Polee's Dad made him do it excuse. Just like Gathers defected to Baylor b/c of his evil bro, right? So what you're saying is -- when a player chooses SJU, it's his own decision, but when a player goes somewhere else, he must have weak character or be influenced by a family member with suspect motives. Makes perfect sense.
(2) Grades Bogus: You take issue with my comment that the grades that Pelle, Garrett and Sampson received at Rise were bogus. You're right I haven't seen the transcripts or their exams. However, the fact that all three kids attended the same school and all three kids received As is highly suspicious, don't you think? Particularly since Pelle and Garrett by their own admission hardly received straight As at prep school in the fall. Obviously the NCAA thought it was bogus. Maybe you subscribe to the school that the NCAA has a personal vendetta against SJU -- if that is indeed the case, then it is foolish for me to even entertain a discussion with you. What's the old expression -- if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. Simply stated, while I admittedly don't have all of the facts, I have a basis for inferring that the grades were bogus.
(3) The Infallible Lavin: Lavin may very well be sick -- I have no idea. In fact, he may be sicker than we all know. I certainly hope that he's ok. Just look at the facts, however, and tell me if they add up: (a) After being diagnosed with cancer for over a year, Lavin has surgery right before fall practice begins; (b) Lavin comes back to coach four games; (3) Lavin announces in November that his early return was a "setback" and that he will continue to serve as coach on a modified schedule (e.g., travel, recruit, fundraise, but no game coaching); and (4) two months later and still no Lavin on the bench. He continues to travel around the country recruiting and is seen watching the games from a skybox at MSG with his wife in tow. Maybe it's just me -- it just seems strange that coaching four games could have set him back so that he is now forced to miss the year. I am no doctor (although I've spoken with a few), but it just doesn't seem to add up. I think there is something we don't know about.
(4) Recruits Decommitting in Droves: Are you disagreeing with me here or just baiting me? I don't think this point is debatable. As for Wood, I'm not sure whether his decomittment was related solely to academics. The big schools are going after him pretty hard from what I've read. In any event, don't you think the staff has some responsibility to recruit kids who have their academics in order? As many on this board have said, no problem on taking a flyer or two on a kid, but at some point the staff have to be held accountable. In any event, there is no doubt that we have had an inordinate number of recruits decommit.
(5) Lindsey is a Bad Seed: Maybe you're right -- maybe Lindsey was a rotten apple. He had lots of talent though. And coach Lavin ("In Coach we Trust" some posters like to say) recruited him, didn't he. If this were an isolated incident, I'd tend to agree with you. With Pollee and Stith leaving and rumors of the team being unhappy playing for Dunlap, it doesn't seem to be an isolated event, does it?
(6) Good Riddance Malik: Yup -- Stith probably saw the writing on the wall, but what writing did he see? Very strange that this kid (who by everyone's account was a thoughtful, hardworking kid who was happy just to be on the team) leaves the team with 8 games left in the season, don't you think? No matter how you spin it, the timing is terrible and it sends a message that the program is in disarray. Maybe Stith is delusional as some posters have speculated, but his playing time is not much different this year than it's been the past two years. Seems like there must be something else going on here. The papers suggest issues with Dunlop. Same thing Nuri said. Where there's smoke there's fire?
(7) Six Scholarship Players: My point? Let's get our heads out of the sand and admit there's a problem. Somebody has to be held accountable.
(8) The Cinci Debacle: My Point? See response to No. 7.
(1) Polee Transfer: Ahh -- the old Polee's Dad made him do it excuse. Just like Gathers defected to Baylor b/c of his evil bro, right? So what you're saying is -- when a player chooses SJU, it's his own decision, but when a player goes somewhere else, he must have weak character or be influenced by a family member with suspect motives. Makes perfect sense.
(2) Grades Bogus: You take issue with my comment that the grades that Pelle, Garrett and Sampson received at Rise were bogus. You're right I haven't seen the transcripts or their exams. However, the fact that all three kids attended the same school and all three kids received As is highly suspicious, don't you think? Particularly since Pelle and Garrett by their own admission hardly received straight As at prep school in the fall. Obviously the NCAA thought it was bogus. Maybe you subscribe to the school that the NCAA has a personal vendetta against SJU -- if that is indeed the case, then it is foolish for me to even entertain a discussion with you. What's the old expression -- if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. Simply stated, while I admittedly don't have all of the facts, I have a basis for inferring that the grades were bogus.
(3) The Infallible Lavin: Lavin may very well be sick -- I have no idea. In fact, he may be sicker than we all know. I certainly hope that he's ok. Just look at the facts, however, and tell me if they add up: (a) After being diagnosed with cancer for over a year, Lavin has surgery right before fall practice begins; (b) Lavin comes back to coach four games; (3) Lavin announces in November that his early return was a "setback" and that he will continue to serve as coach on a modified schedule (e.g., travel, recruit, fundraise, but no game coaching); and (4) two months later and still no Lavin on the bench. He continues to travel around the country recruiting and is seen watching the games from a skybox at MSG with his wife in tow. Maybe it's just me -- it just seems strange that coaching four games could have set him back so that he is now forced to miss the year. I am no doctor (although I've spoken with a few), but it just doesn't seem to add up. I think there is something we don't know about.
(4) Recruits Decommitting in Droves: Are you disagreeing with me here or just baiting me? I don't think this point is debatable. As for Wood, I'm not sure whether his decomittment was related solely to academics. The big schools are going after him pretty hard from what I've read. In any event, don't you think the staff has some responsibility to recruit kids who have their academics in order? As many on this board have said, no problem on taking a flyer or two on a kid, but at some point the staff have to be held accountable. In any event, there is no doubt that we have had an inordinate number of recruits decommit.
(5) Lindsey is a Bad Seed: Maybe you're right -- maybe Lindsey was a rotten apple. He had lots of talent though. And coach Lavin ("In Coach we Trust" some posters like to say) recruited him, didn't he. If this were an isolated incident, I'd tend to agree with you. With Pollee and Stith leaving and rumors of the team being unhappy playing for Dunlap, it doesn't seem to be an isolated event, does it?
(6) Good Riddance Malik: Yup -- Stith probably saw the writing on the wall, but what writing did he see? Very strange that this kid (who by everyone's account was a thoughtful, hardworking kid who was happy just to be on the team) leaves the team with 8 games left in the season, don't you think? No matter how you spin it, the timing is terrible and it sends a message that the program is in disarray. Maybe Stith is delusional as some posters have speculated, but his playing time is not much different this year than it's been the past two years. Seems like there must be something else going on here. The papers suggest issues with Dunlop. Same thing Nuri said. Where there's smoke there's fire?
(7) Six Scholarship Players: My point? Let's get our heads out of the sand and admit there's a problem. Somebody has to be held accountable.
(8) The Cinci Debacle: My Point? See response to No. 7.
boo haarvey
Active member
You're right Rawdog -- I forgot about Jamal White. You have thoroughly discredited me. Clearly I am not the fan I claim to be. I'm probably a UCONN fan in disguise.
Agree. What do you expect opposing coaches to say about us? Especially in public and to the press?
But I'll tell you one thing. I'm sure opposing coaches recruiting for the same talent as Lavin are saying very different things about St. John's in the privacy of a recruit's home or apartment. I can only hope that Lavin is more convincing.
1) I'm not sure what was the issue with Gathers, but I recall not hearing or seeing his brother when Gathers initially committed to St. John's. Suddenly, his brother becomes his PR guy and he commits to Baylor. None of us technically knows whether something happened or not, but common sense tends to come into place somewhere. Not to mention, Scott Drew has drawn the ire of many coaches in the conference.
There are some people who I particularly trust, and was told that Polee's dad felt he'd be better off somewhere else. I don't know, if his dad is overbearing or not. I do know those kinda parents' does exist. It seems he thought his son was better served where he could be featured more.
2) Once again, we don't know whether their grades were bogus or not. The grades could've been bogus or they could've been fine. The NCAA saw fit that they weren't fine. I'm also not one who believes the NCAA has a personal vendetta against St. John's. It does seem like they play favorites and turn a blind eye to some things. Maybe, the three kids should've went to separate schools. But, I do know the NCAA is far from being consistent. Regardless, those same three kids were being recruited (and offered) by other high majors. If, Lavin and the staff had offered top 250-300 types then you'd still be bitching.
3) Who said anything about the coach being infallible? Don't insinuate. Most posters have questioned a move or two. Just because we choose not to harp on it doesn't mean it hasn't been mentioned. You're right.... You're no doctor. 'Nuff said on this one.
4) I said, three kids reneged. What else do you want? You said, you're not sure whether Wood reneged due to academics or not, but big schools are still going after him. Hmmmmmmm.... Yeah, similiar to the big schools that were going after (and offering) Pelle, Sampson and Garrett. Maybe, the staff is trying to stay away from that kinda situation again. Once again, there were three kids who decommitted. One is still in play; one has verballed to another school; and the other may have eligibility issues next season.
5) It was apparent that Lindsey game was going in the tank. It got so bad in Detroit that Moose coyly joked that it looked like he was point-shaving. That in itself is telling. It's on good record that Lindsey was becoming a problem. Yes, he was good player, but do you keep him around for that sake? He was good, but not that good! You also do not want that presence on a young team, either. I wish him luck, but I'm not sure he ever steps on a collegiate floor again.
6) If we had all of the three ineligibles (we have one now) and Lindsey, then Stith would've never saw the floor. Never! I don't like to put down amateurs, but Stith couldn't cut it on this level. You wouldn't even be talking about him, if you didn't want something to complain about. Maybe, it does send a message that things aren't on solid footing. OTOH, it could just be a situation with grades or Stith bailing out. We may eventually find out the deal with him.
7) Most the problems have been there since early in the season. You're not particularly saying anything groundbreaking. I don't have my head in the sand. Maybe, I'm waiting til after the season and April to roll around before I get concerned. Some of us are cool, calm and collected, while some are fickle and others panic.
Yes, I am an optimist. The "biggest of all" is an exaggeration, but I'll still take it as a compliment. I'll tell you what.... It sure beats constantly complaning and fluctuating game-to-game or week-to-week.
rawdognyc
Well-known member
No, you didn't forget to mention Jamal White...actually you mentioned him as one of the six...
Anyway, if Lavin wasn't coming back, why wouldn't players with great talent (harkless/harrison) not leave during semester break when they would have a chance to play this december for another team. why in fact would harrison even talk a friend (branch) into joining the team?? are people here that miserable in life that they have to complain about everything, including things that have yet to happen?? for some reason i just tend to believe lavin then some nameless posters if he says he is going to get a top 5/10 recruiting class....if he wasn't confident of it, he wouldnt say it..it would look horrible on his part, and he actually has a reputation unlike the people that are whining all the time on these boards...i really can't wait to bump these threads just to show these so called fans what lavin is capable of, as if he hasnt already proved it.... i dont even know why i get involved in discussions with people that just have a negative outlook on everything...
Class of 72
Active member
Well Boo Hoo Boo! You may think we are "ripping" a "kid" when all we are doing is reporting the obvious but you Boo Hoo can
1------rip a coach for being MIA under mysterious circumstances----recovering from cancer surgery not plausible
2------blame the coaches for recruits poor prep grades
3------blame coach D for losing Lindsey and Stith
I am having a ripping good time reading your conspiracy theories...LMAO!
Malik wants to do what is best for his family-----get to the pro game----somewhere. He has been saying that since freshmen year to anyone who asked. FYI....from Malik's SJ player profile:
UP CLOSE WITH MALIK STITH
Few people know that: I'm better at football.
After St. John's or after my basketball career, I'd like to: Play in the NBA.
Favorite quote: "No struggle in progress."
Two final things Boo----if Mr. Stith "transfers" after this semester to "play" somewhere else, would you think it had to do with basketball instead of academics? Now, if it is basketball, would you think he may have struggled and made no progress at SJ or just did not accept a diminishing role in the Dunlap offense?
If I told you he tried to transfer 3 weeks ago to a local school to play for the coach who recruited him to SJ, would you think it was academics or basketball-related?
Believe what you want, but I am pretty certain of two things----Stith will not be at SJ next year and coach Lavin will be with 6 new players, 3 new starters and who ever leaves ---- leaves. That is the nature of the game these days.
As far as people "ripping" coach D as "old school" and some players preferring to play "street ball", I will go with old school and rather lose those players. There are a few old school coaches out there that do not take sh*t from players and their names include coach Williams at UNC, coach K at Duke, Jim Calhoun, Jim Boeheim, just to name a few.
Have a great day!
As for Drew drawing the ire of other Big 12 coaches-so what? They are not used to being beaten in recruiting and on the court by Baylor. Urban Meyer has already drawn the ire of other Big 10 coaches because he flipped some of their recruits. Who gives a flip what other cry baby coaches say. Would you not want Meyer as your football coach. The iconic Lou Carnessecca never bitched about any other coaches-he just concerned himself with his own house.
Sometimes, it's not good to burn bridges. Ever heard of that one? Maybe, Drew doesn't care and he probably shouldn't at this point. He still might wanna be careful about ticking off his peers. You never know what might take place down the line.
How do you know whether Carnessecca bitched or not? That was during a different day and time and I'm sure things probably were said and happened during that time we may not know about. It also seemed he didn't particularly take Calipari's tactics too well, either.
boo haarvey
Active member
Well Boo Hoo Boo! You may think we are "ripping" a "kid" when all we are doing is reporting the obvious but you Boo Hoo can
1------rip a coach for being MIA under mysterious circumstances----recovering from cancer surgery not plausible
2------blame the coaches for recruits poor prep grades
3------blame coach D for losing Lindsey and Stith
I am having a ripping good time reading your conspiracy theories...LMAO!
Malik wants to do what is best for his family-----get to the pro game----somewhere. He has been saying that since freshmen year to anyone who asked. FYI....from Malik's SJ player profile:
UP CLOSE WITH MALIK STITH
Few people know that: I'm better at football.
After St. John's or after my basketball career, I'd like to: Play in the NBA.
Favorite quote: "No struggle in progress."
Two final things Boo----if Mr. Stith "transfers" after this semester to "play" somewhere else, would you think it had to do with basketball instead of academics? Now, if it is basketball, would you think he may have struggled and made no progress at SJ or just did not accept a diminishing role in the Dunlap offense?
If I told you he tried to transfer 3 weeks ago to a local school to play for the coach who recruited him to SJ, would you think it was academics or basketball-related?
Believe what you want, but I am pretty certain of two things----Stith will not be at SJ next year and coach Lavin will be with 6 new players, 3 new starters and who ever leaves ---- leaves. That is the nature of the game these days.
As far as people "ripping" coach D as "old school" and some players preferring to play "street ball", I will go with old school and rather lose those players. There are a few old school coaches out there that do not take sh*t from players and their names include coach Williams at UNC, coach K at Duke, Jim Calhoun, Jim Boeheim, just to name a few.
Have a great day![/quote]
(1) For the last time, I'm not "ripping" Lavin. I'm simply pointing out that the facts don't add up. If Lavin is cancer free and had standard prostate surgery without major complications, it is inexplicable why he is out this long. I have no idea what's going on, but I think that those who care about the program should be concerned instead of drinking the coolaid. Incidentally, there is a difference between calling out a coach who chooses to be in the public light and make millions of dollars and a student athelete. Ufortunately, sometimes the line is blurred.
(2) So what -- Stith's player profile says he wants to play in the NBA. I'm sure every college basketball player harbors the same dream. Doesn't mean a thing. Unless you have some inside info (if you do, you probably shouldn't be speading it on a message oard), you have no idea why he quit the team. I don't doubt that he will try to play somewhere else next year. That doesn't mean that he's a quitter or a bad person. Who knows what the circumstances are with the team. All I know is that in 9 months, three playsrs have quit, three were declared ineligible and we have one recruit signed up for next year. Who's to blame -- I don't know. Maybe it's all on Stith and Lindsey and Polee's Dad and Gather's brother and Sampson's Kansas-loving coach and Lavin's doctors and Norm Roberts and Mike Jarvis and Elija Ingram and the stripper from Pittsburgh.
Have a Great Day -- In Lavin We Trust
1------rip a coach for being MIA under mysterious circumstances----recovering from cancer surgery not plausible
2------blame the coaches for recruits poor prep grades
3------blame coach D for losing Lindsey and Stith
I am having a ripping good time reading your conspiracy theories...LMAO!
Malik wants to do what is best for his family-----get to the pro game----somewhere. He has been saying that since freshmen year to anyone who asked. FYI....from Malik's SJ player profile:
UP CLOSE WITH MALIK STITH
Few people know that: I'm better at football.
After St. John's or after my basketball career, I'd like to: Play in the NBA.
Favorite quote: "No struggle in progress."
Two final things Boo----if Mr. Stith "transfers" after this semester to "play" somewhere else, would you think it had to do with basketball instead of academics? Now, if it is basketball, would you think he may have struggled and made no progress at SJ or just did not accept a diminishing role in the Dunlap offense?
If I told you he tried to transfer 3 weeks ago to a local school to play for the coach who recruited him to SJ, would you think it was academics or basketball-related?
Believe what you want, but I am pretty certain of two things----Stith will not be at SJ next year and coach Lavin will be with 6 new players, 3 new starters and who ever leaves ---- leaves. That is the nature of the game these days.
As far as people "ripping" coach D as "old school" and some players preferring to play "street ball", I will go with old school and rather lose those players. There are a few old school coaches out there that do not take sh*t from players and their names include coach Williams at UNC, coach K at Duke, Jim Calhoun, Jim Boeheim, just to name a few.
Have a great day![/quote]
(1) For the last time, I'm not "ripping" Lavin. I'm simply pointing out that the facts don't add up. If Lavin is cancer free and had standard prostate surgery without major complications, it is inexplicable why he is out this long. I have no idea what's going on, but I think that those who care about the program should be concerned instead of drinking the coolaid. Incidentally, there is a difference between calling out a coach who chooses to be in the public light and make millions of dollars and a student athelete. Ufortunately, sometimes the line is blurred.
(2) So what -- Stith's player profile says he wants to play in the NBA. I'm sure every college basketball player harbors the same dream. Doesn't mean a thing. Unless you have some inside info (if you do, you probably shouldn't be speading it on a message oard), you have no idea why he quit the team. I don't doubt that he will try to play somewhere else next year. That doesn't mean that he's a quitter or a bad person. Who knows what the circumstances are with the team. All I know is that in 9 months, three playsrs have quit, three were declared ineligible and we have one recruit signed up for next year. Who's to blame -- I don't know. Maybe it's all on Stith and Lindsey and Polee's Dad and Gather's brother and Sampson's Kansas-loving coach and Lavin's doctors and Norm Roberts and Mike Jarvis and Elija Ingram and the stripper from Pittsburgh.
Have a Great Day -- In Lavin We Trust
