Steve Lavin Update

[firestorm]

WASJU's new core math to determine SJU coach's worth.

NCAA appearance =+2
Sweet 16 =+3
Elite 8=+4
Final Four=+5
Nit=+1
NIT Title=+2
No tourney=-2
Putting program on probation=-10

Louie +45
Mahoney -1
Fran 0
Jarvis -2
Norm -9
Lavin +4

I had to work today and was very bored!!!!

Haha. This is well done! But still not enough negative points for Jarvis.

Need to quantify the number of points he loses for players being arrested, punching out girlfriends or entering into shaky financial transactions with strippers. And I don't know what the number would be for handing over envelopes of cash to barely functional stiffs.

I'll admit that I enjoyed watching Jarvis's talent-stocked teams, but if there was one coach I wish had never set foot in Queens, he's the guy.

 

[we are sju]

WASJU's new core math to determine SJU coach's worth.

NCAA appearance =+2
Sweet 16 =+3
Elite 8=+4
Final Four=+5
Nit=+1
NIT Title=+2
No tourney=-2
Putting program on probation=-10

Louie +45
Mahoney -1
Fran 0
Jarvis -2
Norm -9
Lavin +4

I had to work today and was very bored!!!!

Haha. This is well done! But still not enough negative points for Jarvis.

Need to quantify the number of points he loses for players being arrested, punching out girlfriends or entering into shaky financial transactions with strippers. And I don't know what the number would be for handing over envelopes of cash to barely functional stiffs.

I'll admit that I enjoyed watching Jarvis's talent-stocked teams, but if there was one coach I wish had never set foot in Queens, he's the guy.

Lucky for Norm I didn't put offense that made my eyes bleed -100

 

[redmen1969]

I think we need the season to start

 

[ccnobz]

know what I am waiting for, your post game blogs.

I've been hearing that a lot. I had no idea I was so beloved.

I wonder if Coach Mullin will feel the scorn.

Maybe, but he's really going to have to earn it.

When can we expect the first one? always entertaining

 

[redfazed]

Well, we are now reaping the fruits of Lavin's 6-year, $12-million "rebuilding" effort. We will be lucky to win a single Big East game this season.

The only consolation is that he will be 3,000 miles away while the adults try to pick up the pieces.

 

[monte]

Wow, Mullin in for a rough year on here. Thought honeymoon would at least last to first game.

Lavin was not the worst coach or the best coach we have had but either way he is gone, so I think we should move forward. Mullin is basically the face of the program and has been since 1982. Posters bitching already are clearly crazy! People get way to wrapped up on our FORMER coaches.

BTW Norm stunk

Excellent post---except for the gratuitous shot at Norm. We should move on from doing that too.

Was a joke, but honestly statute of limitations is not up yet on the pain he inflicted on both my eyes and the game of basketball. He is really the only former coach that still merits scorn.

I'll challenge that last line...

I would say Norm and Steve represented SJU well and improved the program from where they started. Did either do an exceptional job? No. But did they move us forward? I'd say yes.

The only coach that still merits scorn is Jarvis. Guy absolutely trashed SJU hoops and left it in a stinking mess that we're still trying to fix.

Norm and Steve's 11 year joint venture left a barren program. Norm left Steve a full squad, giving him time to bring in some players. When Steve was hired he was thought to be a professional coach, so more of the onus would fall on him. Coach Mullin could be considered a risky hire, but he's special so we all feel good about him being back.

Every coach except Norm brought at least one year of enjoyment to the table. Mullin brought me four as a player so he gets a pass from me no matter what happens going forward.

If Lavin was left with what Norm was left with, if Lavin had to work with Norm's shoestring budget and if Lavin had his hands tied the way Norm did with the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, right now we would be calling Lavin the worst coach in the history of the program.

 

[we are sju]

Wow, Mullin in for a rough year on here. Thought honeymoon would at least last to first game.

Lavin was not the worst coach or the best coach we have had but either way he is gone, so I think we should move forward. Mullin is basically the face of the program and has been since 1982. Posters bitching already are clearly crazy! People get way to wrapped up on our FORMER coaches.

BTW Norm stunk

Excellent post---except for the gratuitous shot at Norm. We should move on from doing that too.

Was a joke, but honestly statute of limitations is not up yet on the pain he inflicted on both my eyes and the game of basketball. He is really the only former coach that still merits scorn.

I'll challenge that last line...

I would say Norm and Steve represented SJU well and improved the program from where they started. Did either do an exceptional job? No. But did they move us forward? I'd say yes.

The only coach that still merits scorn is Jarvis. Guy absolutely trashed SJU hoops and left it in a stinking mess that we're still trying to fix.

Norm and Steve's 11 year joint venture left a barren program. Norm left Steve a full squad, giving him time to bring in some players. When Steve was hired he was thought to be a professional coach, so more of the onus would fall on him. Coach Mullin could be considered a risky hire, but he's special so we all feel good about him being back.

Every coach except Norm brought at least one year of enjoyment to the table. Mullin brought me four as a player so he gets a pass from me no matter what happens going forward.

If Lavin was left with what Norm was left with, if Lavin had to work with Norm's shoestring budget and if Lavin had his hands tied the way Norm did with the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, right now we would be calling Lavin the worst coach in the history of the program.

Hill and Hamilton

 

[redmannorth]

Wow, Mullin in for a rough year on here. Thought honeymoon would at least last to first game.

Lavin was not the worst coach or the best coach we have had but either way he is gone, so I think we should move forward. Mullin is basically the face of the program and has been since 1982. Posters bitching already are clearly crazy! People get way to wrapped up on our FORMER coaches.

BTW Norm stunk

Excellent post---except for the gratuitous shot at Norm. We should move on from doing that too.

Was a joke, but honestly statute of limitations is not up yet on the pain he inflicted on both my eyes and the game of basketball. He is really the only former coach that still merits scorn.

I'll challenge that last line...

I would say Norm and Steve represented SJU well and improved the program from where they started. Did either do an exceptional job? No. But did they move us forward? I'd say yes.

The only coach that still merits scorn is Jarvis. Guy absolutely trashed SJU hoops and left it in a stinking mess that we're still trying to fix.

Norm and Steve's 11 year joint venture left a barren program. Norm left Steve a full squad, giving him time to bring in some players. When Steve was hired he was thought to be a professional coach, so more of the onus would fall on him. Coach Mullin could be considered a risky hire, but he's special so we all feel good about him being back.

Every coach except Norm brought at least one year of enjoyment to the table. Mullin brought me four as a player so he gets a pass from me no matter what happens going forward.

If Lavin was left with what Norm was left with, if Lavin had to work with Norm's shoestring budget and if Lavin had his hands tied the way Norm did with the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, right now we would be calling Lavin the worst coach in the history of the program.

Hill and Hamilton

Not really sure what you mean but both Hill and Hamilton were Recruits of the big fat lazy bald lying piece of dung. They were both top 50 recruits. So if you mean to Say Lavin left coach Mullin, AA, Felix and Jones while Jarvis left Hamilton and Hill and therefore no coach left the program in worse shape than Lavin I would have to agree with you.

 

[redmannorth]

Wow, Mullin in for a rough year on here. Thought honeymoon would at least last to first game.

Lavin was not the worst coach or the best coach we have had but either way he is gone, so I think we should move forward. Mullin is basically the face of the program and has been since 1982. Posters bitching already are clearly crazy! People get way to wrapped up on our FORMER coaches.

BTW Norm stunk

Excellent post---except for the gratuitous shot at Norm. We should move on from doing that too.

Was a joke, but honestly statute of limitations is not up yet on the pain he inflicted on both my eyes and the game of basketball. He is really the only former coach that still merits scorn.

I'll challenge that last line...

I would say Norm and Steve represented SJU well and improved the program from where they started. Did either do an exceptional job? No. But did they move us forward? I'd say yes.

The only coach that still merits scorn is Jarvis. Guy absolutely trashed SJU hoops and left it in a stinking mess that we're still trying to fix.

Norm and Steve's 11 year joint venture left a barren program. Norm left Steve a full squad, giving him time to bring in some players. When Steve was hired he was thought to be a professional coach, so more of the onus would fall on him. Coach Mullin could be considered a risky hire, but he's special so we all feel good about him being back.

Every coach except Norm brought at least one year of enjoyment to the table. Mullin brought me four as a player so he gets a pass from me no matter what happens going forward.

If Lavin was left with what Norm was left with, if Lavin had to work with Norm's shoestring budget and if Lavin had his hands tied the way Norm did with the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, right now we would be calling Lavin the worst coach in the history of the program.

Hill and Hamilton

Not really sure what you mean but both Hill and Hamilton were Recruits of the big fat lazy bald lying piece of dung. They were both top 50 recruits. So if you mean to Say Lavin left coach Mullin AA, Felix and Jones while Jarvis left Hamilton and Hill and therefore no coach left the program in worse shape than Lavin I would have to agree with you.

 

[we are sju]

Wow, Mullin in for a rough year on here. Thought honeymoon would at least last to first game.

Lavin was not the worst coach or the best coach we have had but either way he is gone, so I think we should move forward. Mullin is basically the face of the program and has been since 1982. Posters bitching already are clearly crazy! People get way to wrapped up on our FORMER coaches.

BTW Norm stunk

Excellent post---except for the gratuitous shot at Norm. We should move on from doing that too.

Was a joke, but honestly statute of limitations is not up yet on the pain he inflicted on both my eyes and the game of basketball. He is really the only former coach that still merits scorn.

I'll challenge that last line...

I would say Norm and Steve represented SJU well and improved the program from where they started. Did either do an exceptional job? No. But did they move us forward? I'd say yes.

The only coach that still merits scorn is Jarvis. Guy absolutely trashed SJU hoops and left it in a stinking mess that we're still trying to fix.

Norm and Steve's 11 year joint venture left a barren program. Norm left Steve a full squad, giving him time to bring in some players. When Steve was hired he was thought to be a professional coach, so more of the onus would fall on him. Coach Mullin could be considered a risky hire, but he's special so we all feel good about him being back.

Every coach except Norm brought at least one year of enjoyment to the table. Mullin brought me four as a player so he gets a pass from me no matter what happens going forward.

If Lavin was left with what Norm was left with, if Lavin had to work with Norm's shoestring budget and if Lavin had his hands tied the way Norm did with the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, right now we would be calling Lavin the worst coach in the history of the program.

Hill and Hamilton

Not really sure what you mean but both Hill and Hamilton were Recruits of the big fat lazy bald lying piece of dung. They were both top 50 recruits. So if you mean to Say Lavin left coach Mullin, AA, Felix and Jones while Jarvis left Hamilton and Hill and therefore no coach left the program in worse shape than Lavin I would have to agree with you.

Norm was left with way better than Mullin and did nothing with it. Lavin was left with Norm's 6th and 7th men who Lavin rightfully delegated as his two best players and went to an NCAA

 

[we are sju]

Look, I think I have made my feelings about Mullin pretty clear. With that being said it is also clear that
if Lavin had stayed this season would be way better. Again it is what it is and happy Mullin is here but I don't think you can kill Lavin for this season anymore than Mullin should be.

 

[otis]

If Lavin was left with what Norm was left with, if Lavin had to work with Norm's shoestring budget and if Lavin had his hands tied the way Norm did with the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, right now we would be calling Lavin the worst coach in the history of the program.

Hill and Hamilton

Hey "we"

It is amusing that the Lavin apologists still seek to spin facts by comparing him to Coach Roberts.

Roberts faced bigger obstacles than Lavin:

- NCAA probation,

- smaller budget for recruiting and assistant coach hires,

- tougher competition in Big East Conference,

- depleted roster (recall open tryouts that uncovered diamond in the rough Phil Messre (sp?)),

- orders to increase graduation rates,

Lets see you or other "Lav" apologists attempt to spin or minimize the shadow on recruiting which NCAA probation placed on Coach Roberts during his firs recruiting cycle.

"Lav" inherited a team with NCAA Tournament talent but when terminated his team had no measurable talent for his successor.

During his last 3 seasons "Lav" registered a mediocre Big East record of 28 wins and 24 losses..... not a real good ROI for Lav's reported $2M+ salary.

Norm is ancient history.

Lavin is also history albeit more recent history.

Can we please agree to move on and stop rehashing facts that we cannot change?

It is time for everyone to move on.

Thanks.

 

[we are sju]

If Lavin was left with what Norm was left with, if Lavin had to work with Norm's shoestring budget and if Lavin had his hands tied the way Norm did with the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, right now we would be calling Lavin the worst coach in the history of the program.

Hill and Hamilton

Hey "we"

It is amusing that the Lavin apologists still seek to spin facts by comparing him to Coach Roberts.

Roberts faced bigger obstacles than Lavin:

- NCAA probation,

- smaller budget for recruiting and assistant coach hires,

- tougher competition in Big East Conference,

- depleted roster (recall open tryouts that uncovered diamond in the rough Phil Messre (sp?)),

- orders to increase graduation rates,

Lets see you or other "Lav" apologists attempt to spin or minimize the shadow on recruiting which NCAA probation placed on Coach Roberts during his firs recruiting cycle.

"Lav" inherited a team with NCAA Tournament talent but when terminated his team had no measurable talent for his successor.

During his last 3 seasons "Lav" registered a mediocre Big East record of 28 wins and 24 losses..... not a real good ROI for Lav's reported $2M+ salary.

Norm is ancient history.

Lavin is also history albeit more recent history.

Can we please agree to move on and stop rehashing facts that we cannot change?

It is time for everyone to move on.

Thanks.

I thought Lavin was a lug head. Besides that he was also the 3rd most successful coach here since I have been a fan. 2nd being everyone's favorite Jarvis. I thought Lavin did just barely enough to stay, and I didn't think we would hire anyone worthwhile to replace him. Then Mullin came aboard along with all my childhood memories of those 80's teams and I could care less about Lavin no matter what happens here on out.

I defend every SJU coach from criticism because compared to Norm, I at least had moments with every other guy since Lou

 

[monte]

Wow, Mullin in for a rough year on here. Thought honeymoon would at least last to first game.

Lavin was not the worst coach or the best coach we have had but either way he is gone, so I think we should move forward. Mullin is basically the face of the program and has been since 1982. Posters bitching already are clearly crazy! People get way to wrapped up on our FORMER coaches.

BTW Norm stunk

Excellent post---except for the gratuitous shot at Norm. We should move on from doing that too.

Was a joke, but honestly statute of limitations is not up yet on the pain he inflicted on both my eyes and the game of basketball. He is really the only former coach that still merits scorn.

I'll challenge that last line...

I would say Norm and Steve represented SJU well and improved the program from where they started. Did either do an exceptional job? No. But did they move us forward? I'd say yes.

The only coach that still merits scorn is Jarvis. Guy absolutely trashed SJU hoops and left it in a stinking mess that we're still trying to fix.

Norm and Steve's 11 year joint venture left a barren program. Norm left Steve a full squad, giving him time to bring in some players. When Steve was hired he was thought to be a professional coach, so more of the onus would fall on him. Coach Mullin could be considered a risky hire, but he's special so we all feel good about him being back.

Every coach except Norm brought at least one year of enjoyment to the table. Mullin brought me four as a player so he gets a pass from me no matter what happens going forward.

If Lavin was left with what Norm was left with, if Lavin had to work with Norm's shoestring budget and if Lavin had his hands tied the way Norm did with the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, right now we would be calling Lavin the worst coach in the history of the program.

Hill and Hamilton

Not really sure what you mean but both Hill and Hamilton were Recruits of the big fat lazy bald lying piece of dung. They were both top 50 recruits. So if you mean to Say Lavin left coach Mullin, AA, Felix and Jones while Jarvis left Hamilton and Hill and therefore no coach left the program in worse shape than Lavin I would have to agree with you.

Norm was left with way better than Mullin and did nothing with it. Lavin was left with Norm's 6th and 7th men who Lavin rightfully delegated as his two best players and went to an NCAA

Norm was also left with a program on NCAA probation. No one is arguing that Norm was good coach, but IMO opinion and that of many others, he did more with less than Lavin did.

 

[MJDinkins]

Wow, Mullin in for a rough year on here. Thought honeymoon would at least last to first game.

Lavin was not the worst coach or the best coach we have had but either way he is gone, so I think we should move forward. Mullin is basically the face of the program and has been since 1982. Posters bitching already are clearly crazy! People get way to wrapped up on our FORMER coaches.

BTW Norm stunk

Excellent post---except for the gratuitous shot at Norm. We should move on from doing that too.

Was a joke, but honestly statute of limitations is not up yet on the pain he inflicted on both my eyes and the game of basketball. He is really the only former coach that still merits scorn.

I'll challenge that last line...

I would say Norm and Steve represented SJU well and improved the program from where they started. Did either do an exceptional job? No. But did they move us forward? I'd say yes.

The only coach that still merits scorn is Jarvis. Guy absolutely trashed SJU hoops and left it in a stinking mess that we're still trying to fix.

Norm and Steve's 11 year joint venture left a barren program. Norm left Steve a full squad, giving him time to bring in some players. When Steve was hired he was thought to be a professional coach, so more of the onus would fall on him. Coach Mullin could be considered a risky hire, but he's special so we all feel good about him being back.

Every coach except Norm brought at least one year of enjoyment to the table. Mullin brought me four as a player so he gets a pass from me no matter what happens going forward.

If Lavin was left with what Norm was left with, if Lavin had to work with Norm's shoestring budget and if Lavin had his hands tied the way Norm did with the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, right now we would be calling Lavin the worst coach in the history of the program.

Hill and Hamilton

Not really sure what you mean but both Hill and Hamilton were Recruits of the big fat lazy bald lying piece of dung. They were both top 50 recruits. So if you mean to Say Lavin left coach Mullin, AA, Felix and Jones while Jarvis left Hamilton and Hill and therefore no coach left the program in worse shape than Lavin I would have to agree with you.

Hill and Hamilton weren't top 50 recruits. Sorry, Aubie. That's not the case.

Can we let this thread die (although, wasju is bringing some entertainment to the thread, lol).... Some folks continue to show their agenda, as they did during the previous two seasons.

 

[Andrew]

Hill scored twenty points per game as a Sophomore in the old Big East and was third team all conference. If not for his knee injury he very well would have been a 2,000 point scorer.

 

[MJDinkins]

Hill scored twenty points per game as a Sophomore in the old Big East and was third team all conference. If not for his knee injury he very well would have been a 2,000 point scorer.

Hill was a solid player before his knee injury, but he wasn't considered a consensus top 50 player in high school, as mentioned previously. He may have been rated highly by one publication, but not overall.

 

[monte]

Hill scored twenty points per game as a Sophomore in the old Big East and was third team all conference. If not for his knee injury he very well would have been a 2,000 point scorer.

Hill was a solid player before his knee injury, but he wasn't considered a consensus top 50 player in high school, as mentioned previously. He may have been rated highly by one publication, but not overall.

http://espn.go.com/recruiting/s/010815top100.html

 

[MJDinkins]

Hill scored twenty points per game as a Sophomore in the old Big East and was third team all conference. If not for his knee injury he very well would have been a 2,000 point scorer.

Hill was a solid player before his knee injury, but he wasn't considered a consensus top 50 player in high school, as mentioned previously. He may have been rated highly by one publication, but not overall.

As, I stated, he may have been rated highly, per one publication. But, I don't believe it was consensus.

The year he was supposed to come out of high school:

The year he came out of prep school:

 

[beast of the east]

Wow, Mullin in for a rough year on here. Thought honeymoon would at least last to first game.

Lavin was not the worst coach or the best coach we have had but either way he is gone, so I think we should move forward. Mullin is basically the face of the program and has been since 1982. Posters bitching already are clearly crazy! People get way to wrapped up on our FORMER coaches.

BTW Norm stunk

Excellent post---except for the gratuitous shot at Norm. We should move on from doing that too.

Was a joke, but honestly statute of limitations is not up yet on the pain he inflicted on both my eyes and the game of basketball. He is really the only former coach that still merits scorn.

I'll challenge that last line...

I would say Norm and Steve represented SJU well and improved the program from where they started. Did either do an exceptional job? No. But did they move us forward? I'd say yes.

The only coach that still merits scorn is Jarvis. Guy absolutely trashed SJU hoops and left it in a stinking mess that we're still trying to fix.

Norm and Steve's 11 year joint venture left a barren program. Norm left Steve a full squad, giving him time to bring in some players. When Steve was hired he was thought to be a professional coach, so more of the onus would fall on him. Coach Mullin could be considered a risky hire, but he's special so we all feel good about him being back.

Every coach except Norm brought at least one year of enjoyment to the table. Mullin brought me four as a player so he gets a pass from me no matter what happens going forward.

If Lavin was left with what Norm was left with, if Lavin had to work with Norm's shoestring budget and if Lavin had his hands tied the way Norm did with the kind of kids he was allowed to recruit, right now we would be calling Lavin the worst coach in the history of the program.

I would submit that Norm "left" Lavin NOTHING. Norm got fired with a roster almost entirely of juniors that barely eked into the NIT. Had he lived for one more season and then got fired, Lavin would have inherited a completely barren roster. I would submit that Lavin perpetuated what Norm started - an imbalanced roster. I would submit that not only could Norm not coach (he couldn't game coach his way out of a paper bag), but he selfishly was worried only about Norm's survival so he couldn't care less about balancing the roster for two years down the road. One of Lavin's big errors is that he didn't work to rebalance the roster the way Mullin did in his first 10 weeks on the job. As a results, just 4 years after Lavin "inherited" the almost completely senior roster, the same result occurred - EXCEPT - Lavin would have "left" the program in slightly better shape since talented problem children Obekpa and Jordan were primed to lead this year's squad as upperclassmen. Let's end this myth that Norm had a clue. He would have had both Hardy and Brownlee (our two best players in 2010-11) on the bench, and we would have missed the NCAA's again. Let's not compare the talent that Norm brought in compared to Lavin, no wait, let's. If Norm coached that final season with his seniors, we'd be talking about how DJ Kennedy was the only decent player he'd brought in in 6 seasons. Brownlee and Hardy would have rotted on the bench while Sean Evans brought the ball up on breaks, and Maliks Boothe and Stith ran the point. Lavin brought in Harkless, Obekpa, Jordan, Harrison, Pointer, Greene, Sampson, Sanchez, and Branch. Norm not only couldn't coach, he couldn't evaluate talent under his nose. Remember that he fell in love with short in stature, short on talent point guards (perhaps an image of Roberts the player - the same delusional Roberts who said more than once he was better than Anthony Mason Sr in HS). Lavin was hired as a tainted former coach with a bunch of Sweet 16 results. Norm was hired by the meddling CEO priest Harrington, who fell for Robert's boyish charm and professed lifelong love for SJU as his dream job. On that subject, I bet not a single one of us could ever recall a younger Norm frequently MSG or CA following his "dream team" because I believe that was a load of crap that Harrington swooned for. If any of you believe that Roberts would have led Lavin's team to the NCAAs, then you are rewriting history.

Norm mismanaged the roster the way Isaiah Thomas did the same to the Knicks. Both were only worried about personal survival, and put themselves above the future of their teams. It took Donnie Walsh's acumen to disassemble Thomas' mess. Lavin failed to unravel it the way Mullin has, and as a result 4 years later the roster had the exact same problem, courtesy of the Obekpa and Jordan follies.

Let's end this nonsense. Lavin's 5 year tenure ended abruptly despite an NCAA bid. He brought in NBA level talent in Sampson and Harkless, and near NBA level talent in Obekpa, Jordan, Pointer, and Harrison. His biggest failure was an imbalanced roster. Had things broken luckily for him, he could have began this season with a core of Jordan, Obekpa, Brandon Sampson, and Lovett. Of course with Obekpa poised to walk, and Jordan not cracking a book and planning to, that couldn't have happened, so Lavin instead was shown the door. But let's not compare Lavin to Roberts. Maybe calling Lavin a good coach is like comparing Taco Bell to Mexican food. But Roberts as a coach was the result of eating Taco Bell - pure diarrhea.