SJU Portal Targets

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Larry Wright said:
Just to be clear my issue is with some saying Watkins, Dingle AND Ledlum.
That simply won’t work.
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Correct. Either Ledlum/Watkins and Dingle. No way we take all three. Even adding two more you’re going to have guys not getting the minutes they expect and will enter portal next year. But that’s the nature of the beast. Win now, worry about next year next year.
 
dk423 said:
I'm not sure Ledlum does.

For arguments sake, let's just say the waiver is ordered by the courts. Dingle signs. Watkins follows.

Our top six is definitely: Kadary, Watkins, Luis, Smith, Dingle, Zuby.

I'm not entirely convinced I'd rather have Ledlum than Scott in the rotation at that point. He's a better shooter, more athletic, and a much better athlete/potential on defense. I think Ledlum would get picked on with pick & rolls on a lot of possessions, and I'm not exactly sure he's the spacer we'd want on the court compared to Scott. Or even Wilcher/Dunlap.

I do thing the happiness thing is a little overblown, and we should definitely want a competitive atmosphere with a lot of talent. But there does come a point of diminishing returns.
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The ‘happiness’ factor as you describe it is not overblown. Chemistry and continuity are important. Sometimes the shiny new toy isnt better than what you already have. Having too many guys who all think they’re headed to the nba could lead to some issues if they’re not getting the minutes and opportunity to showcase their abilities as much as they’d like.
 
dk423 said:
I'm not sure Ledlum does.

For arguments sake, let's just say the waiver is ordered by the courts. Dingle signs. Watkins follows.

Our top six is definitely: Kadary, Watkins, Luis, Smith, Dingle, Zuby.

I'm not entirely convinced I'd rather have Ledlum than Scott in the rotation at that point. He's a better shooter, more athletic, and a much better athlete/potential on defense. I think Ledlum would get picked on with pick & rolls on a lot of possessions, and I'm not exactly sure he's the spacer we'd want on the court compared to Scott. Or even Wilcher/Dunlap.

I do thing the happiness thing is a little overblown, and we should definitely want a competitive atmosphere with a lot of talent. But there does come a point of diminishing returns.
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Ok so maybe Scott or maybe ledlum. splitting hairs IMO. Ledlum has a year in the system and was considered a better get the year prior than Scott is now. Zuby also has a lot left still to prove. Ledlum, of the other forwards, probably would have the best chance at guarding 5s in smaller lineups.
 
mattc said:
The ‘happiness’ factor as you describe it is not overblown. Chemistry and continuity are important. Sometimes the shiny new toy isnt better than what you already have. Having too many guys who all think they’re headed to the nba could lead to some issues if they’re not getting the minutes and opportunity to showcase their abilities as much as they’d like.
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We got Rick Pitino to figure that part out. Chemistry and continuity are important. I wouldn't be disappointed if we ended up with Dingle or Ledlum. Hell, I'd be thrilled if that's how we capped off this portal season.

But, a guy like Watkins is a pretty substantial upgrade talent/athleticism-wise and its worth the gamble in figuring out how to make it all work. You'd hope part of the pitch is the fact that we'll be a competitive team and the team buy-in is critical to everyone's success. If it fails, it's on Pitino.
 
Amaseinyourface said:
Ok so maybe Scott or maybe ledlum. splitting hairs IMO. Ledlum has a year in the system and was considered a better get the year prior than Scott is now. Zuby also has a lot left still to prove. Ledlum, of the other forwards, probably would have the best chance at guarding 5s in smaller lineups.
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My fear is that Ledlum's prior injuries have caught up to him and we won't see that explosive athlete again. Again, I'd love Ledlum and if I was guaranteed him coming to the roster vs. taking a chance on Watkins, I'd take the guaranteed thing.

I just don't think having both make a lot of sense. Guys need time in the game to get comfortable playing with others/get into a groove themselves.
 
logen said:
One more for the “hope I am wrong” column but I will be very surprised if this team does not have “growing pains”. What is this if essentially not another “first year” for Pitino?
Certainly not entirely but SJU did not sign the portal players they did to sit on the bench or play secondary roles. I just don’t see Pitino’s strength being putting “new” teams together.
I am a huge chemistry guy so we shall see.
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Every team is dealing with massive turnover. I don't think this is exclusive to Rick. If other coaches can make it happen, we have no excuses.

This is the reality of the NLI era.
 
With respect to the "happiness factor," I'll post a different perspective. In short, I am concerned about the hypothetical situation where, before a potentially favorable outcome on Ledlum's TRO application or on Watkins' potential decision to play for SJU, there is adverse info about the prospects of either player ever becoming a Johnny. It would of course be disappointing and create some angst, but I would hope that any such situation would not create a "sky is falling" dynamic amongst the fanbase. The team (and fanbase) is in the best hands that we have had in a generation+, and certainly includes some high-level talent. Not trying to set low expectations, but with the Type A personality of our base -- as well as our starved/torturous history, I would hope that we could still keep some semblance of calm. Serenity now (insanity later!!). Ha!
 
passitback said:
Every team is dealing with massive turnover. I don't think this is exclusive to Rick. If other coaches can make it happen, we have no excuses.

This is the reality of the NLI era.
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And every coach has different strength and weaknesses. That is the reality of human beings.
 
Scott is definitely ahead of Ledlum if Ledlum were to return. He was brought in specifically to address the switching versatility we had at the 4 last year.

Scott is huge for this team because he doesn’t need the ball in his hands to be effective and he spaces the floor for those that do.

Would love 15 mins from Ledlum.
 
Marillac2 said:
Scott is definitely ahead of Ledlum if Ledlum were to return. He was brought in specifically to address the switching versatility we had at the 4 last year.

Scott is huge for this team because he doesn’t need the ball in his hands to be effective and he spaces the floor for those that do.

Would love 15 mins from Ledlum.
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I would be very surprised if Scott played more than Ledlum if he returned
 
mattc said:
The ‘happiness’ factor as you describe it is not overblown. Chemistry and continuity are important. Sometimes the shiny new toy isnt better than what you already have. Having too many guys who all think they’re headed to the nba could lead to some issues if they’re not getting the minutes and opportunity to showcase their abilities as much as they’d like.
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see Kentucky or Kansas
 
Marillac2 said:
Scott is definitely ahead of Ledlum if Ledlum were to return. He was brought in specifically to address the switching versatility we had at the 4 last year.

Scott is huge for this team because he doesn’t need the ball in his hands to be effective and he spaces the floor for those that do.

Would love 15 mins from Ledlum.
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The thing with Ledlum is you cant judge his contribution by his physical skills. His heart, attitude and junk yard dog tenaciousness are appreciated by his teammates and coaching staff.
 
Kansas also retained almost everybody for this coming year. Not sure if their issue was unhappiness vs. not having any shooting.
 
SJU14 said:
I would be very surprised if Scott played more than Ledlum if he returned
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I love Ledlum’s hustle and offensive rebounding, but he’s simultaneously too short and too slow. I don’t know to what extent his injuries factored in, but he was a bad mismatch for us when he switched onto a perimeter player.

Good teams went after that a lot. That’s not an issue with Scott.

If we are in a rock fight or playing a team with a strong combo forward, maybe you go more Ledlum in those spots. For everything else it’s Scott. And I really want Ledlum back too.

I think we are sleeping on Scott.
 
johnsliva said:
The thing with Ledlum is you cant judge his contribution by his physical skills. His heart, attitude and junk yard dog tenaciousness are appreciated by his teammates and coaching staff.
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When I was a freshman or Sophomore in college, ST John’s played Gtown on either CBS or ESPN. Gtown had Mutombo and Mourning. Now some of the facts are hazy because I was probably drunk but Gtown set the BE record for blocks in a game. I don’t know exact number but I think it was 75.

On one play Singleton pump faked 36 times a number so astonishing that the refs seemed mesmerized and didn’t call a 3 seconds. After the 36th fake , Mourning and Mutombo simultaneously smashed Singleton’s shot off his head and it ricocheted across the court and into the Gtown basket for a 3 pointer.

Tired of undersized, unathletic power forwards. Get Watkins even if he is really a 3.
 
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