Seton Hall (UBS), Sun., Feb. 18, 5p, FS-1

[SJU61982]

I think it’s just that coach tried to put a square peg (his style of play) in a round hole (his players abilities/limitations) and it didn’t work out.

But, I see these younger coaches who don't do that.

English went completely away from what he usually does in the second half against us, when he saw an advantage.

Smart doesn't play the havoc style at Marquette, that you saw at VCU, because he doesn't have the personnel for it.

I don't know enough about Holloway to know if he deviates, or not.

So, if the players don't fit your style (and if you're complaining about lateral quickness, well, that's something that a player either has, or he doesn't. It's not something that gets better), then it's on you to adjust. Instead, he rips them (although it wasn't quite as harsh if you actually watch the video) for things they're incapable of doing.

What I really don't understand is, since he used to work for Boeheim, why is he so averse to going zone? I prefer that to man in general, because you can do so many different things with a zone, but I think all successful coaches now mix it up, to a degree, because you have to. They have too much video on you, otherwise.

 

[Jack Williams]

I think the only thing that would make anyone believe we will be better next year is faith in Pitino. There is no hard evidence to believe we are definitively bringing in better players.

If you take Pitino at his word that Freshman are not impactful under his M.O. (see Wilcher and Dunlap) then our three Freshman recruits: Lefteris. Maker and Glover will not likely be game changers. If this is the case, then it brings us back to the portal and as we have seen this past season that the portal is a crapshoot.

When we bagged Dingle and Ledlum last year, the praise was pretty effusive, but now they are considered to be yesterday's mashed potatoes. Pitino himself said yesterday that he took players quickly, based on what they saw on paper and not on them being his type of guys. What evidence is there that he has players lined up, that are dying to come here, that are a serious talent upgrade. In my opinion it is just blind faith that it will happen. Now that faith may get rewarded, but after one season of watching the Pitino regime perform I am still firmly in wait and see mode. I definitely hope we will be better next year, but we will not really know much until around mid-season to see if this will come to fruition.

I wouldn't say it is just blind faith. Even though I am in "wait and see" mode in regards to next year, I do believe it is clear that Pitino knows him and his staff botched last offseason in regards to personnel. The team doesn't match Rick's coaching style.

I think the reason Rick is so cranky and unprofessional in these pressers (not excusing it, just trying to understand it) is he knows this roster isn't going to cut it and he is just trying to get this over with so he can recruit a roster that matches his desired style.

In that sense, it is more than "blind faith" to think we could be better next year. It is seeing the staff learned a lesson this year and believing they will recruit in a way that corrects it this offseason. I don't think we will have a roster next year that can't stay in front of opposing guards for instance

 

[MJDinkins]

What I really don't understand is, since he used to work for Boeheim, why is he so averse to going zone? I prefer that to man in general, because you can do so many different things with a zone, but I think all successful coaches now mix it up, to a degree, because you have to. They have too much video on you, otherwise.

Pitino worked for Boeheim in the late 70's, which is "dinosaur years" ago. Contrary to what many believe, Boeheim played a lot of man defense at one point during his coaching career. He didn't exclusively go to zone until 1996.

I have no issue with us playing man, but since it seems we don't have the requisite personnel to play it 40 minutes (or 30 minutes a game), then regularly switch between man and zone. Keep the opposition off balance, as well as alleviate or hide a weakness.

 

[Rhythm]

I do recognize your point of view, however my point is that we have produced an entire generation, again not all but most, of persons who think that is is good enough to just show up, make a good showing, get a pat on the back for a good game and go home. I think that we have some of these types on our team.

Our team leader has slacked off recently. I love Joel but he needs to be tougher and more engaged in winning rather than participating. There's others as well. I don't think that Tyler Kolek's parents told him that it was OK to just show up and participate. That kid is a leader and a winner. That's why we all hate him so much.

CRP was looking to Joel to be a leader but Joel was never given the tools to be that leader. I get what CRP is saying and what he's trying to do. He's trying to get more out of certain players down the stretch in order to get something out of this season. He's not being disrespectful to the players by trying to get more out of them. He's just up against a mental attitude that comes from "I showed up, didn't I? That should be enough!"

I agree he is trying everything possible to get these kids to care. He has coddled them, he has been patient. Now he’s using the media to get them to commit to running back on defense.
The kids effort has been pathetic and I’m glad he is saying it out loud.

 

[weathermannyc]

I'm not saying that this is THE problem with this team but I have found, in general and in my humble opinion, that the younger generation has been corrupted by "participation trophy syndrome". They don't have the work ethic that I was taught by my parents. They have the general attitude that "I showed up, now give me my trophy!" has perpetuated.

I remember going to my grandsons games and I was told that they don't keep scores! Why keep score? They showed up! This perpetuates mediocrity, lack of effort and a lax attitude.

Again, before some of you pile on me for my thoughts, this is not true of ALL of this generation, but this was the "modus operandi" for their generation. This is what they were taught in school and a good portion of them took to this psychology because it was the easiest path for them and kept them from having to make that "extra effort" to succeed.

While that is a problem I see, it is not applicable here. There was absolutely noting wrong with the effort from Seton Hall in the second half. They played like a pack of hungry dogs.

 

[SJU61982]

I have no issue with us playing man, but since it seems we don't have the requisite personnel to play it 40 minutes (or 30 minutes a game), then regularly switch between man and zone. Keep the opposition off balance, as well as alleviate or hide a weakness.

Well, I'm for that in general. Playing one exclusive defense doesn't work anymore, IMO.

 

[Jack Williams]

Well, I'm for that in general. Playing one exclusive defense doesn't work anymore, IMO.

I could be wrong but I recall providence coach giving us credit for switching up our defense frequently when we beat them earlier in the year.

Either we stopped doing that or teams figured us out

 

[fan5577]

That’s a good point. Definitely some talent here but most don’t play with intensity for 40. Most can’t shoot. Most are lazy on defense. Yadda yadda yadda.

I was sitting down by the basket we shot at the 2nd 1/2. There were a number of times the guards just missed Soriano free going to the basket. I can't believe they never attempted the pass. Maybe I had a bad angle, I don't know but I was screaming "get him the ball", the pass was never made.

 

[tnice]

I'm not saying that this is THE problem with this team but I have found, in general and in my humble opinion, that the younger generation has been corrupted by "participation trophy syndrome". They don't have the work ethic that I was taught by my parents. They have the general attitude that "I showed up, now give me my trophy!" has perpetuated.

I remember going to my grandsons games and I was told that they don't keep scores! Why keep score? They showed up! This perpetuates mediocrity, lack of effort and a lax attitude.

Again, before some of you pile on me for my thoughts, this is not true of ALL of this generation, but this was the "modus operandi" for their generation. This is what they were taught in school and a good portion of them took to this psychology because it was the easiest path for them and kept them from having to make that "extra effort" to succeed.

Oh God, there you have it folks. The most boomer take you'll read all day. Shut down the contest, we have a winner.

Come on man. LOL

 

[fan5577]

I cannot stand this coach’s substitution patterns. He may have effectively killed 2-3 players basketball careers with how he’s handled them.

But I also believe this coach recognizes the problem and will fix it by next year.

Some on here talk about the substitution pattern, OK who would you put in if everyone you substitute in does not perform?

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

If you are good enough to get to these leads I don’t want to hear about why we aren’t good enough. Blame goes all around but if we never had the lead in these games I’d probably feel a lot less anger

In a few weeks , the NCAA tournament will be underway . We won’t be in it but , that’s not my point .
There are going to be a fair amount of mid Major teams playing higher profile teams and in some cases , actually leading those blue bloods at 1/2 time.

For example , RP’s Iona team had the lead at 1/2 time over UCONN by 1 point but , wound up getting beat handily in the 2 nd half . Still they gave the Huskies a decent overall game . Despite not being able to match their depth or talent .

There have been countless other examples where the Mid Majors have even led into the 2nd half but , ultimately lose .

So ,,our continual overall 2 half collapse isn’t really that surprising . Especially when factored in to the now Board majority opinion that this SJU team is not BE talented .

A telling example yesterday was watching Holloway on the sidelines . Even when they were down 19 he wasn’t beserk or rattled . Plus he had a solid game strategy in place .

That was working the ball around the perimeter for 20 seconds , tiring us out and then have , Richmond , Wusu, Davis or Al Amir Drue drive past our guys for layups or shoot the J .
The drives were most effective as they beat us off the dribble and we either fouled or , gave up the conventional 3 point play .

Why don’t we adjust ? And , we don’t want to admit it but , Pitino is right . Our players , for the most part are not BE skilled or , quick enough or , big enough to stop guards like Richmond Wusu, etc .

It’s not a unique plan that Holloway discovered . All our opponents have found that weakness and exploited it for this second half of Season ..

It’s tough to admit and RP hasn’t been bashful in publicizing it ,but this team does not have BE talent . Deny it but, it’s true .

Frankly , you could say it’s a wonder we have even won 6 games at this point in the Season .

Yesterday , we started to wilt even before the 1st half ended as the 19 point lead dropped to 12.

So , yes , a Team that isn’t as talented as our Opponents can build leads but , can’t sustain it over 40 minutes .

Typical of us as fans , is the Annual assessment we have that the new Crop of players that will turn our fortune around . It hasn’t happened , except for the 2 years with Lavin and 1 year with Mullin .

We did it again this past summer . We were thrilled to bring in Dingle and Ledlum . Taking their Ivy League stats as proof they were studs .
They aren’t . Maybe in the Ivy they were but , not here .

For the most part , they have been starters . Yesterday , Combined they produced 11 points .
Luis ? Lots of potential but , a very poor handle
and , not that good a shooter .,Plus , poor at thinking in game situations .
I could go on but , what’s the purpose ?

Sure, Pitino has to be responsible for putting these players together . Maybe he was too late in the Portal recruiting ?

And , once again , it wasn’t only Pitino who wanted most of last years team gone but , included Fr Shanley, Cragg , Macon , etc
That fact gets lost in pointing only at RP

Yes , the pillaging of players in the Media is a poor strategy and , surprising that Pitino doesn’t know that .
Do any of us know , if he did the same at UK or L’ville?

So , let’s see if we can finish 500 in the league and take whatever happens in the BE tourney . Then , get started on bringing in BE caliber players .

Hope remains . What else is there ?

 

[Money]

I think the only thing that would make anyone believe we will be better next year is faith in Pitino. There is no hard evidence to believe we are definitively bringing in better players.

That is the WHOLE reason we hired Pitino. It is the faith in HIM that he can turn this program around. That's what you do with every coach or person in authority, is that they will make it better, there is never any evidence outside of past results!

 

[fan5577]

These are students. Any professor who would talk about students like this would be instantly fired

Except these "students" are getting paid. Those sitting in a classroom are not. I am not saying at all that Coach should be calling players out by name, he could just say we are a slow team laterally, but comparing these paid athletes to students in a classroom is just not correct.

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

I have to believe Wilcher is either deep in Pitino's doghouse or already revealed that he's leaving. It make no sense that he can't get a single minute.

That might be true but , he wasn’t going to play much , if at all at NC with Caedu playing the lead role .

 

[tnice]

THIS

 

[Mullins Revenge]

I dont know if i have every seen a team play a worse 1st half then we did yesterday and were up 19 points. We were awful in the 1st half yesterday. Seton Hall was literally asleep the whole half. Richmond was barely even trying in that 1st half

Thats why when people are saying, "OMG we had a 19 point lead" its really weird. it is like they didnt watch the game.

We were horrible yesterday. Not just in the 2nd half but in the whole game.

 

[Mullins Revenge]

THIS

A winnable 5 games.

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[SJU Center Court]

Some things better left unsaid, seems self serving to me and wonder what recruits and their coaches, advisors and families think;

After latest St. John’s loss, Rick Pitino laments ‘sh*tty’ facilities, lack of toughness and ‘lost season’ due to recruiting

After latest St. John's loss, Rick Pitino laments 'sh*tty' facilities, lack of toughness and 'lost' recruiting

www.nj.com

TotallY agree with ALL of the above concerns . Being critical of the team as a whole is somewhat acceptable but singling out specific players, if necessary, should be done in private and not in the press.

Implying that his coaches are to blame for the recruiting is also a weak excuse. I thought he personally recruited Dunlap and now says publicly that Dunlap is "weak".

Rick set the expectations when hired and he said that the turnaround would only take months not years. He set those expectations.

Really hope that current freshmen and incoming recruits do not leave.

I'm still glad that he was hired but he needs to tone down the public comments about individual kids.

 

[gregbodkin]

While that is a problem I see, it is not applicable here. There was absolutely noting wrong with the effort from Seton Hall in the second half. They played like a pack of hungry dogs.

Read my first post. I wrote that MOST of this generation has "participation trophy syndrome", not all. We just don't have a leader with that "must win" attitude like Kolek.

 

[Rhythm]

I dont know if i have every seen a team play a worse 1st half then we did yesterday and were up 19 points. We were awful in the 1st half yesterday. Seton Hall was literally asleep the whole half. Richmond was barely even trying in that 1st half

Thats why when people are saying, "OMG we had a 19 point lead" its really weird. it is like they didnt watch the game.

We were horrible yesterday. Not just in the 2nd half but in the whole game.

You were right about the script. My blind fandom wanted things to be different.