Realistic Expectation for First Four Games

[quote="Marillac" post=309442][quote="Class of 72" post=309438]I'm hoping for a 2-2 split but if Keita is a non factor I can see us starting 0-4. Especially after watching Sacred Heart beat us on the boards on both ends of the court. In conference play size will matter and it is wonderful to have a good shooting forward like Clark taking treys but that usually means our guys are already running away from the basket when he shoots. Every Big East team here out will have the 6'8 and 6'10 kids to give us problems. Last night they were Sacred Heart kids. Now they will be nationally ranked Big East kids. Let's see if small ball works in conference. Without defense and rebounding my guess is that it won't be enough.[/quote]

WTF?

Our center is 6'7-6'8 230 lbs and is one of the best set shooters in the country. The guys we have playing PF an C can all start a break, score 25 points any given night, and hit free throws. He can space the floor better than any big man in the country.

Look at what a typical big man does in a game...usually 50% or so from the line which means 4-6 misses from the stripe, tires and gets beat back a few times in transition, gets beaten on the perimeter a handful of times by guards and wings, clogs the lane, doesn't stretch the D, etc. Let them get 5-6 layups if we can get 8-10 baskets on the other end from the other stuff.[/quote]

WTF Center that is 6'8 are you referring to because I must have missed that player all season thus far. We don't play a "center" position on this team. Marvin Clark is an outstanding shooting SF. There is no "power" in his game and he is not relentless under the boards. The other players are in the 6'1 to 6'6 range and can all score as you stated. The problem will be when Marvin is off or in foul trouble we are in deep WTF shit. That's why the Keita issue looms over this team and this season just as Marcus LoVett loomed and doomed our season last year.
Bottom line is that one player, especially not your best player, should be such a factor on any team.
 
A number of pitchers, Bob Gibson being the first and Tom Terrific as well, always said that the most important pitch is strike 1. This season, the most important Big East win, especially staring last year o and 11, is win 1. Let's get it right away and take the monkey off our backs. The team will be loose after that.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=309462][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=309444]4-0 is not a realistic expectation. That’s 3 road games including at nova and the home game is against the best team in the league who has the biggest physical presence in Theo John. We better come out and beat SH or I think we’ll be lucky to be 1-3.

The positive is one of the tougher 4 game stretches is out of the way, the negative being there aren’t many easy 4 game stretches in the BE. Regardless, I think end of the year we’ll have 11 wins and a more than safe bid.[/quote]

Georgetown and SH are two of the most winnable road games we play all season.

We have a stretch later in the year: @Creighton, @Duke, @Marquette, Providence, Butler, Villanova, and @ Providence...followed by Seton Hall. That is consecutive!!!!!

If we are a tournament team we will beat SH and Gtown on the road and we will protect our home court against Marquette. They are good but they aren't Gonzaga. They lost by 23 to Indiana and they barely beat a 3-0 UTEP team.

We can't lose at home to Marquette this early. What are the odds we can beat them on the road later in the year?! Pretty close to zero.[/quote]

Most winnable does not equal games we should win. You of all guys trying to downplay winning on the road right now? Marquette is our worst matchup I’ve already said that, If there’s a team that’s gonna sweep us it’s them.
 
Don’t predict, but if we play 40 minutes hard and smart, every game is winnable, don’t, and all are loseable. No groundbreaking insight with that statement so I am very anxious to see how we play Saturday. The Hall is tough, they have a great scorer in Powell, and are more proven than we are at this stage by virtue of their schedule. It’s 40 minute time for an experienced team, so my favorite sports cliche, we shall see.
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=309470][quote="Marillac" post=309462][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=309444]4-0 is not a realistic expectation. That’s 3 road games including at nova and the home game is against the best team in the league who has the biggest physical presence in Theo John. We better come out and beat SH or I think we’ll be lucky to be 1-3.

The positive is one of the tougher 4 game stretches is out of the way, the negative being there aren’t many easy 4 game stretches in the BE. Regardless, I think end of the year we’ll have 11 wins and a more than safe bid.[/quote]

Georgetown and SH are two of the most winnable road games we play all season.

We have a stretch later in the year: @Creighton, @Duke, @Marquette, Providence, Butler, Villanova, and @ Providence...followed by Seton Hall. That is consecutive!!!!!

If we are a tournament team we will beat SH and Gtown on the road and we will protect our home court against Marquette. They are good but they aren't Gonzaga. They lost by 23 to Indiana and they barely beat a 3-0 UTEP team.

We can't lose at home to Marquette this early. What are the odds we can beat them on the road later in the year?! Pretty close to zero.[/quote]

Most winnable does not equal games we should win. You of all guys trying to downplay winning on the road right now? Marquette is our worst matchup I’ve already said that, If there’s a team that’s gonna sweep us it’s them.[/quote]

I choose to be overly positive until proven wrong.

Our biggest weakness is effort. 3/4 of the first games will be effort city. Gtown might be a let down there. The boys will compete those first two! And Nova?!

Winning on the road is never easy.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=309475][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=309470][quote="Marillac" post=309462][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=309444]4-0 is not a realistic expectation. That’s 3 road games including at nova and the home game is against the best team in the league who has the biggest physical presence in Theo John. We better come out and beat SH or I think we’ll be lucky to be 1-3.

The positive is one of the tougher 4 game stretches is out of the way, the negative being there aren’t many easy 4 game stretches in the BE. Regardless, I think end of the year we’ll have 11 wins and a more than safe bid.[/quote]

Georgetown and SH are two of the most winnable road games we play all season.

We have a stretch later in the year: @Creighton, @Duke, @Marquette, Providence, Butler, Villanova, and @ Providence...followed by Seton Hall. That is consecutive!!!!!

If we are a tournament team we will beat SH and Gtown on the road and we will protect our home court against Marquette. They are good but they aren't Gonzaga. They lost by 23 to Indiana and they barely beat a 3-0 UTEP team.

We can't lose at home to Marquette this early. What are the odds we can beat them on the road later in the year?! Pretty close to zero.[/quote]

Most winnable does not equal games we should win. You of all guys trying to downplay winning on the road right now? Marquette is our worst matchup I’ve already said that, If there’s a team that’s gonna sweep us it’s them.[/quote]

I choose to be overly positive until proven wrong.

Our biggest weakness is effort. 3/4 of the first games will be effort city. Gtown might be a let down there. The boys will compete those first two! And Nova?!

Winning on the road is never easy.[/quote]

I’m as high on this team as anyone. You said the other day 10 wins would be a good job.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=309467][quote="Marillac" post=309442][quote="Class of 72" post=309438]I'm hoping for a 2-2 split but if Keita is a non factor I can see us starting 0-4. Especially after watching Sacred Heart beat us on the boards on both ends of the court. In conference play size will matter and it is wonderful to have a good shooting forward like Clark taking treys but that usually means our guys are already running away from the basket when he shoots. Every Big East team here out will have the 6'8 and 6'10 kids to give us problems. Last night they were Sacred Heart kids. Now they will be nationally ranked Big East kids. Let's see if small ball works in conference. Without defense and rebounding my guess is that it won't be enough.[/quote]

WTF?

Our center is 6'7-6'8 230 lbs and is one of the best set shooters in the country. The guys we have playing PF an C can all start a break, score 25 points any given night, and hit free throws. He can space the floor better than any big man in the country.

Look at what a typical big man does in a game...usually 50% or so from the line which means 4-6 misses from the stripe, tires and gets beat back a few times in transition, gets beaten on the perimeter a handful of times by guards and wings, clogs the lane, doesn't stretch the D, etc. Let them get 5-6 layups if we can get 8-10 baskets on the other end from the other stuff.[/quote]

WTF Center that is 6'8 are you referring to because I must have missed that player all season thus far. We don't play a "center" position on this team. Marvin Clark is an outstanding shooting SF. There is no "power" in his game and he is not relentless under the boards. The other players are in the 6'1 to 6'6 range and can all score as you stated. The problem will be when Marvin is off or in foul trouble we are in deep WTF shit. That's why the Keita issue looms over this team and this season just as Marcus LoVett loomed and doomed our season last year.
Bottom line is that one player, especially not your best player, should be such a factor on any team.[/quote]

Marvin Clark is as much of a SF as you.
Maybe you missed the Final Four when he was a freshman and played a ton of minutes for Izzo at center? He played 18 minutes in an OT Elite Eight win against Louisville -- nearly all at center. He played 10 minutes against Duke in the Final Four. All told, he played 59 minutes at the four and five in five NCAA tournament games for a Final Four team. He also had 68 minutes in six Big Ten conference tournament games at the four and five.That many not be good enough for 72, but it's good enough for me.

Kevin Pittsnoogle was a 6'10 250 center that hit over 40% on 8-9 threes a game, but nobody every called him a SF. For some reason Clark gets that label here. Puzzling.
 
4-0. Until they show me that they can lose a game, we have new sets that people haven't seen yet that will knock the balls outta your pants.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=309484][quote="Class of 72" post=309467][quote="Marillac" post=309442][quote="Class of 72" post=309438]I'm hoping for a 2-2 split but if Keita is a non factor I can see us starting 0-4. Especially after watching Sacred Heart beat us on the boards on both ends of the court. In conference play size will matter and it is wonderful to have a good shooting forward like Clark taking treys but that usually means our guys are already running away from the basket when he shoots. Every Big East team here out will have the 6'8 and 6'10 kids to give us problems. Last night they were Sacred Heart kids. Now they will be nationally ranked Big East kids. Let's see if small ball works in conference. Without defense and rebounding my guess is that it won't be enough.[/quote]

WTF?

Our center is 6'7-6'8 230 lbs and is one of the best set shooters in the country. The guys we have playing PF an C can all start a break, score 25 points any given night, and hit free throws. He can space the floor better than any big man in the country.

Look at what a typical big man does in a game...usually 50% or so from the line which means 4-6 misses from the stripe, tires and gets beat back a few times in transition, gets beaten on the perimeter a handful of times by guards and wings, clogs the lane, doesn't stretch the D, etc. Let them get 5-6 layups if we can get 8-10 baskets on the other end from the other stuff.[/quote]

WTF Center that is 6'8 are you referring to because I must have missed that player all season thus far. We don't play a "center" position on this team. Marvin Clark is an outstanding shooting SF. There is no "power" in his game and he is not relentless under the boards. The other players are in the 6'1 to 6'6 range and can all score as you stated. The problem will be when Marvin is off or in foul trouble we are in deep WTF shit. That's why the Keita issue looms over this team and this season just as Marcus LoVett loomed and doomed our season last year.
Bottom line is that one player, especially not your best player, should be such a factor on any team.[/quote]

Marvin Clark is as much of a SF as you.
Maybe you missed the Final Four when he was a freshman and played a ton of minutes for Izzo at center? He played 18 minutes in an OT Elite Eight win against Louisville -- nearly all at center. He played 10 minutes against Duke in the Final Four. All told, he played 59 minutes at the four and five in five NCAA tournament games for a Final Four team. He also had 68 minutes in six Big Ten conference tournament games at the four and five.That many not be good enough for 72, but it's good enough for me.

Kevin Pittsnoogle was a 6'10 250 center that hit over 40% on 8-9 threes a game, but nobody every called him a SF. For some reason Clark gets that label here. Puzzling.[/quote]

Why bother? You know it's the same regurgitated stuff, even though we're 12-0. There are those on this board that point out our "weaknesses ", but for some reason don't understand that our team is set up to be a mismatch nightmare on offense.
 
[quote="Amaseinyourface" post=309476][quote="Marillac" post=309475][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=309470][quote="Marillac" post=309462][quote="Amaseinyourface" post=309444]4-0 is not a realistic expectation. That’s 3 road games including at nova and the home game is against the best team in the league who has the biggest physical presence in Theo John. We better come out and beat SH or I think we’ll be lucky to be 1-3.

The positive is one of the tougher 4 game stretches is out of the way, the negative being there aren’t many easy 4 game stretches in the BE. Regardless, I think end of the year we’ll have 11 wins and a more than safe bid.[/quote]

Georgetown and SH are two of the most winnable road games we play all season.

We have a stretch later in the year: @Creighton, @Duke, @Marquette, Providence, Butler, Villanova, and @ Providence...followed by Seton Hall. That is consecutive!!!!!

If we are a tournament team we will beat SH and Gtown on the road and we will protect our home court against Marquette. They are good but they aren't Gonzaga. They lost by 23 to Indiana and they barely beat a 3-0 UTEP team.

We can't lose at home to Marquette this early. What are the odds we can beat them on the road later in the year?! Pretty close to zero.[/quote]

Most winnable does not equal games we should win. You of all guys trying to downplay winning on the road right now? Marquette is our worst matchup I’ve already said that, If there’s a team that’s gonna sweep us it’s them.[/quote]

I choose to be overly positive until proven wrong.

Our biggest weakness is effort. 3/4 of the first games will be effort city. Gtown might be a let down there. The boys will compete those first two! And Nova?!

Winning on the road is never easy.[/quote]

I’m as high on this team as anyone. You said the other day 10 wins would be a good job.[/quote]

It would...all things considered. But I'm thinking 30 right now and for you to change your handle to AFinalFourinYourFace in April.

This is the Mets fan in me. My confidence will crumble like a house of cards if we lose to SH. I get 2-3 of these a decade with St. John's, don't piss in my cheerios!

15-0 and Ponds will be National Player of the Week the first week of 2018! The only question is does he drop 40 or 50 on Marquette?
 
We’re basically looking at 3 games where it’s a pick em (@ SHU, Marquette, @GTOWN) and 1 game as an underdog (@Nova). With that in mind 2-2 is a very good start that we should be happy with.
 
If we're gonna make a statement this year, then forget splits. Gotta go at least 3-1.
Go to the rock, and shut their fans up.
Gotta take the b.e. home opener vs marq.
G-Town doesn't impress me.
Probably lose @ no a after beating them their last year, they'll be up for us this year.

2-2 is ok, 3-1 and I'm good, 4-0 really has me thinking big things.
Let's go redmen
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=309418]SH on road
Marquette at home
Georgetown on road
Nova on road

Always good to get out of gate well, but this is a tough initial group of games. Of course things even out in next four, but would be nice to maintain the positive vibe around program. As a subjective fan, it easy to predict 4-0, but frankly splitting the games would be fine imo, with a hope for 3-1. Thoughts?[/quote]
Tough set of games so would accept a split. I don’t see any of these teams being able to physically overwhelm us. So, 4-0/3-1 is very possible. If we commit to defense and avoid foul trouble, I think we will be very tough based on our ability to score and the multitude of options.
 
A very tough slate of games early on, coming off a cupcake OOC schedule.
I’d be okay with 2-2, thinking SH at home, Marquette anywhere, and Nova anywhere but at home in particular would be a mighty trifecta.
Why be greedy?!?
Hoping for 3-1.
 
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[quote="Marillac" post=309487]

I choose to be overly positive until proven wrong.

Our biggest weakness is effort. 3/4 of the first games will be effort city. Gtown might be a let down there. The boys will compete those first two! And Nova?!

Winning on the road is never easy.[/quote]

I’m as high on this team as anyone. You said the other day 10 wins would be a good job.[/quote]

It would...all things considered. But I'm thinking 30 right now and for you to change your handle to AFinalFourinYourFace in April.

This is the Mets fan in me. My confidence will crumble like a house of cards if we lose to SH. I get 2-3 of these a decade with St. John's, don't piss in my cheerios!

15-0 and Ponds will be National Player of the Week the first week of 2018! The only question is does he drop 40 or 50 on Marquette?[/quote]

Those are some very honest statments, but if you are recognizing that you are being overly optimistic why are you crucifying those that choose to be skeptical.

FWIW I'm amazed anyone feels like they know what to expect over the next 17 games. Every team STJ plays from here on in is better than every team they've played already, with VCU the only outlier, they're probably better than a couple of BE teams.

There are a few things that seem obvious. First, the team doesn't suck. Their offense is getting better bordering on very good, with Simon and Heron trying to establish the high and low post multiple times yesterday. The fact that they do that more than Marv is proof positive he ain't no center. Hybrid PF/SF at best. But if he can guard some bigs and Keita can come back and give 10 minutes a game his offense is electric at times, which can be said for pretty much all of the starting five in one or more ways. You guys keep telling me that's what positionless basketball is all about. That gives me hope.

Only pulling down 67% of Sacred Hearts missed shots gives me palpitations.

Getting back to that VCU game, that was the worst St Johns looked all year, need Ponds to save them and it was damn ugly. Are they going to look like that when they start playing good teams again? Hopefully not but anyone who can claimi they are sure of that because they finally seemed to get it together vs. St Francis and Sacred Heart are being more optmistic than I can be. For now I'm just trying to enjoy every game, every win, March will come soon enough.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=309484][quote="Class of 72" post=309467][quote="Marillac" post=309442][quote="Class of 72" post=309438]I'm hoping for a 2-2 split but if Keita is a non factor I can see us starting 0-4. Especially after watching Sacred Heart beat us on the boards on both ends of the court. In conference play size will matter and it is wonderful to have a good shooting forward like Clark taking treys but that usually means our guys are already running away from the basket when he shoots. Every Big East team here out will have the 6'8 and 6'10 kids to give us problems. Last night they were Sacred Heart kids. Now they will be nationally ranked Big East kids. Let's see if small ball works in conference. Without defense and rebounding my guess is that it won't be enough.[/quote]

WTF?

Our center is 6'7-6'8 230 lbs and is one of the best set shooters in the country. The guys we have playing PF an C can all start a break, score 25 points any given night, and hit free throws. He can space the floor better than any big man in the country.

Look at what a typical big man does in a game...usually 50% or so from the line which means 4-6 misses from the stripe, tires and gets beat back a few times in transition, gets beaten on the perimeter a handful of times by guards and wings, clogs the lane, doesn't stretch the D, etc. Let them get 5-6 layups if we can get 8-10 baskets on the other end from the other stuff.[/quote]

WTF Center that is 6'8 are you referring to because I must have missed that player all season thus far. We don't play a "center" position on this team. Marvin Clark is an outstanding shooting SF. There is no "power" in his game and he is not relentless under the boards. The other players are in the 6'1 to 6'6 range and can all score as you stated. The problem will be when Marvin is off or in foul trouble we are in deep WTF shit. That's why the Keita issue looms over this team and this season just as Marcus LoVett loomed and doomed our season last year.
Bottom line is that one player, especially not your best player, should be such a factor on any team.[/quote]

Marvin Clark is as much of a SF as you.
Maybe you missed the Final Four when he was a freshman and played a ton of minutes for Izzo at center? He played 18 minutes in an OT Elite Eight win against Louisville -- nearly all at center. He played 10 minutes against Duke in the Final Four. All told, he played 59 minutes at the four and five in five NCAA tournament games for a Final Four team. He also had 68 minutes in six Big Ten conference tournament games at the four and five.That many not be good enough for 72, but it's good enough for me.

Kevin Pittsnoogle was a 6'10 250 center that hit over 40% on 8-9 threes a game, but nobody every called him a SF. For some reason Clark gets that label here. Puzzling.[/quote]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph but your lack of perspicacity on the Marvin Clark issue is hilarious.:cheer:
First off what the heck goes Marvin's time at Michigan State have to do with his current status at St. John's?
Secondly, he was a sub in those games and in the Duke and Louisville games he grabbed a total of TWO REBOUNDS. One in each game.
Finally do yourself a favor and chart the shots he has taken. 69 of 102 of his shot attempts are from beyond the arc. He shoots 68% of his shots from the 3 point line. He is 4th on the team in rebounding. If that screams out power forward to you, God bless you. By definition a power forward is a " large forward who plays in the low post and typically has good rebounding skills." I love Marvin but while at Michigan state he was listed at 6'6 and grew an inch at St. John's. If that floats your boat for advocating him as a 4 or more hysterically as a five, so be it.
 
[quote="rawdognyc" post=309485]4-0. Until they show me that they can lose a game, we have new sets that people haven't seen yet that will knock the balls outta your pants.[/quote]

Paultzman asked for realistic expectations.;)
 
Praying for 4-0
Hoping for 3-1
Expecting 2-2
Wouldn't be surprised 1-3
Also Marvin Clark is 6'5"/6'6" on a good day.
 
Every picture I have seen of Clark & Simon together, they look to be the same height. Assume that is 6'6" at best. Having said that, Clark is doing us proud and rebounding and getting to the line better than last year. Let's hope for the best and not expect the worst. We are SJU fans and if we don't believe in our team, who should?
 
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