Lavin has the best hair in the Big East. End of story
Wow, this thread really took off since I last checked. Here's my two cents........
I rate Ed Cooley as a very good coach who did an amazing job this year. In fact, he (deservingly so) was 1 of 15 finalist for the Jim Phelan National Coach of the Year Award. When taking just this year into account, it is not reasonable to consider Lavin in the same league as Cooley.
When looking at the overall debate, it has been mentioned that Coach Cooley has not done anything "consistently". To that, I encourage you to look at his career head coaching record. Here are his win totals during his years with Fairfield and Providence.
2007 Fairfield (13 wins)
2008 Fairfield (14 wins)
2009 Fairfield (17 wins)
2010 Fairfield (23 wins)
2011 Fairfield (25 wins)
2012 Providence (15 wins)
2013 Providence (19 wins)
2014 Providence (23 wins)
Please know that I do not think Coach Cooley is the end-all-be-all. However, I do think his record consistently demonstrates value-added. There is literally growth every single year. The guy has to be doing something right.
As for Lavin, I rate him as an overall poor basketball coach. What perplexes me most is our willingness to settle for a coach that does half the job well. I do think he is a strong recruiter (probably an excellent "closer", much like a strong salesman). However, we also know the countless examples of poor in-game coaching, outrageous line-ups, and listless performances. Many (or maybe even most) Lavin supporters will agree that he is not particularly good at coaching basketball. It is usually followed by the hope that an assistant coach can "step-up" and carry the load in this area. I don't get this??? It's true, St. John's is not Kentucky or North Carolina. However, I do think St. John's is a program that can demand someone who can both recruit and coach. I refuse to believe we have to settle for someone who is grossly deficient in a very important part of the job.
If progression is what you like, let's take a look at Lavin since he brought in his first batch of players
St John's (13-19)
St John's (17-16)
St John's (20-13)
It looks like progression is happening here. It's funny though I get the feeling you hate Lavin, judging by your posts.
And don't get me wrong, I don't think Lavin is a great coach, but I think he has us steered in the right direction. I couldn't have said that three weeks ago, but the return of obekpa and Greene, commit from ADR, 5 bigs considering joining St. John's next year (hoping he we get 3/5), it seems as if we might be able to rise up to 23-24 wins next year, furthering our progress, and definitely putting us in the tournament.
You sound like a broken record with your strawman arguments. Guess your favorite baseball player was Daryl "the strawman" Strawberry, and your favorite movie character was the strawman in the Wizard of Oz. You are the one who beats a dead horse with your superfluous comments in defending Lavin at every hint of criticism which is why a straight shooter like Paultzman felt it necessary to add his disclaimer that he hoped his post would not be interpreted as bashing Lavin. But you are so defensive when it comes to Lavin that I am sure you don't even see that.. setting up a "strawman" is to set up a fake argument-so how can my defenders of the shield comment be fake when we have Dinkins. Fordham, Simplyred, and redmen212 chiming in on any perceived knocks at Lavin. have a feeling if Lavin read these boards he would not care as much as you guys and would laugh it off but you guys just continue to try and bully everyone. Let's just hope Lavin can have some recruiting success so we can ALL be happy and maybe get a long for 5 minutes.IMHO no need for your last sentence disclaimer. Never felt you have bashed anyone. But I understand your sensitivity in not wanting to be harangued by the defenders of the shield.I don't think Cooley is second coming of John Wooden when it comes to X&Os. That said, I just think he did better overall coaching job last season than Steve Lavin. All in all, let's see what Cooley can do this year, after losing two critical pieces in Batts & Cotton. At the same time, provided we get Thomas, I would hope Lav can achieve better results than last year with this veteran team. Hopefully this is viewed as constructive discussion, not Lavin bashing.
Exactly.
Those who constantly toe the line but then jump in for the rescue when Lavin's name may be sullied.
Since when is a head coach above criticism? It would be a first in sports.
Seems the fanbase has cheered more for talks of hopes and promises than results over the past 3 years.
A flame/bait post by bamafan.
Besides, no one ever said a coach is above criticism. A straw man. Lavin deserved to be criticize this past season. Some of these posts goes above and beyond criticism. Caustic-like tone and people going out of their way to mention the coach in a thread. There have also been posts that came off like it was personal. Why derail every, single thread with bashing of the coach? It becomes boring and tedious at some point. Some people do wanna talk about basketball, and not have to come and see thread after thread roasting the coach. The horse is dead.
Oh, I get it. Those critical of Lavin hate him and make it personal. By that standard those who defend him love him and make it personal. Believe what you want but there is nothing more that I would like to see than Lavin sign a couple of forwards, we have a tournament team next season which leads to a great '15 class (Diallo, Briscoe) and a successful future. Just want us to win and am not happy with essentially over 10 years of bad basketball compared to the first 30 years I followed the program.
Oh, I get it. Those critical of Lavin hate him and make it personal. By that standard those who defend him love him and make it personal. Believe what you want but there is nothing more that I would like to see than Lavin sign a couple of forwards, we have a tournament team next season which leads to a great '15 class (Diallo, Briscoe) and a successful future. Just want us to win and am not happy with essentially over 10 years of bad basketball compared to the first 30 years I followed the program.
But you seem to be mistaken about my viewpoint about the team. Do you think I am happy with our last 10 years of basketball? Do you think I am happy with a first round NIT exit? No. Obviously not.
But the fact that we won 20 games, have been making improvements on a yearly basis, and have been extremely successful on the recruiting trail and show no real signs of slowing down there give me hope that Lavin is still the man for the job. I don't think I deserve to be called a pom pom waver or a kool aid drinker for that point of view. I think it's perfectly reasonable. Now if I were posting "Lavin is the greatest coach in the country" or any other positive equivalent of what you and others post about him, I think you would be justified in calling me names.
It's pretty much all you talk about on either board. You post as though Lavin is the worst coach you've ever seen. Like he's a clueless bufoon who just happened to find himself a D1 basketball coach. Y.
It's pretty much all you talk about on either board. You post as though Lavin is the worst coach you've ever seen. Like he's a clueless bufoon who just happened to find himself a D1 basketball coach. Y.
Actually, this is nail on the head accurate description of Lavins career as a basketball "coach".
If the guy wasnt such an elite recruiter, he wouldnt be fit to coach a middle school girls team. It really is astounding how a phoney like him can sham his way to an 11 year career at two programs with great legacies. His ability to recruit and make friends keeps him afloat....... for awile. Then he is exposed
Oh, I get it. Those critical of Lavin hate him and make it personal. By that standard those who defend him love him and make it personal. Believe what you want but there is nothing more that I would like to see than Lavin sign a couple of forwards, we have a tournament team next season which leads to a great '15 class (Diallo, Briscoe) and a successful future. Just want us to win and am not happy with essentially over 10 years of bad basketball compared to the first 30 years I followed the program.
But you seem to be mistaken about my viewpoint about the team. Do you think I am happy with our last 10 years of basketball? Do you think I am happy with a first round NIT exit? No. Obviously not.
But the fact that we won 20 games, have been making improvements on a yearly basis, and have been extremely successful on the recruiting trail and show no real signs of slowing down there give me hope that Lavin is still the man for the job. I don't think I deserve to be called a pom pom waver or a kool aid drinker for that point of view. I think it's perfectly reasonable. Now if I were posting "Lavin is the greatest coach in the country" or any other positive equivalent of what you and others post about him, I think you would be justified in calling me names.
This is not accurate 212.
We were signing top flight talent until this year. Now we are signing sub150 projects and juco role players.
Oh, I get it. Those critical of Lavin hate him and make it personal. By that standard those who defend him love him and make it personal. Believe what you want but there is nothing more that I would like to see than Lavin sign a couple of forwards, we have a tournament team next season which leads to a great '15 class (Diallo, Briscoe) and a successful future. Just want us to win and am not happy with essentially over 10 years of bad basketball compared to the first 30 years I followed the program.
But you seem to be mistaken about my viewpoint about the team. Do you think I am happy with our last 10 years of basketball? Do you think I am happy with a first round NIT exit? No. Obviously not.
But the fact that we won 20 games, have been making improvements on a yearly basis, and have been extremely successful on the recruiting trail and show no real signs of slowing down there give me hope that Lavin is still the man for the job. I don't think I deserve to be called a pom pom waver or a kool aid drinker for that point of view. I think it's perfectly reasonable. Now if I were posting "Lavin is the greatest coach in the country" or any other positive equivalent of what you and others post about him, I think you would be justified in calling me names.
This is not accurate 212.
We were signing top flight talent until this year. Now we are signing sub150 projects and juco role players.
Actually we could be signing the #88 player in the country to replace the only starting spot that is left open this year. It is difficult to get top 100's to commit if you can't offer playing time. Looking ahead to 2015 it looks like we are right there (most likely the front runners) with two potential top 10 talents, as well as a few other top 100's. So I disagree, I think we are in great shape recruiting wise.
Oh, I get it. Those critical of Lavin hate him and make it personal. By that standard those who defend him love him and make it personal. Believe what you want but there is nothing more that I would like to see than Lavin sign a couple of forwards, we have a tournament team next season which leads to a great '15 class (Diallo, Briscoe) and a successful future. Just want us to win and am not happy with essentially over 10 years of bad basketball compared to the first 30 years I followed the program.
But you seem to be mistaken about my viewpoint about the team. Do you think I am happy with our last 10 years of basketball? Do you think I am happy with a first round NIT exit? No. Obviously not.
But the fact that we won 20 games, have been making improvements on a yearly basis, and have been extremely successful on the recruiting trail and show no real signs of slowing down there give me hope that Lavin is still the man for the job. I don't think I deserve to be called a pom pom waver or a kool aid drinker for that point of view. I think it's perfectly reasonable. Now if I were posting "Lavin is the greatest coach in the country" or any other positive equivalent of what you and others post about him, I think you would be justified in calling me names.
This is not accurate 212.
We were signing top flight talent until this year. Now we are signing sub150 projects and juco role players.
Actually we could be signing the #88 player in the country to replace the only starting spot that is left open this year. It is difficult to get top 100's to commit if you can't offer playing time. Looking ahead to 2015 it looks like we are right there (most likely the front runners) with two potential top 10 talents, as well as a few other top 100's. So I disagree, I think we are in great shape recruiting wise.
We really need to land Diallo and Briscoe to keep up the strong recruiting under Lavin but who says we are the front runners?
Oh, I get it. Those critical of Lavin hate him and make it personal. By that standard those who defend him love him and make it personal. Believe what you want but there is nothing more that I would like to see than Lavin sign a couple of forwards, we have a tournament team next season which leads to a great '15 class (Diallo, Briscoe) and a successful future. Just want us to win and am not happy with essentially over 10 years of bad basketball compared to the first 30 years I followed the program.
But you seem to be mistaken about my viewpoint about the team. Do you think I am happy with our last 10 years of basketball? Do you think I am happy with a first round NIT exit? No. Obviously not.
But the fact that we won 20 games, have been making improvements on a yearly basis, and have been extremely successful on the recruiting trail and show no real signs of slowing down there give me hope that Lavin is still the man for the job. I don't think I deserve to be called a pom pom waver or a kool aid drinker for that point of view. I think it's perfectly reasonable. Now if I were posting "Lavin is the greatest coach in the country" or any other positive equivalent of what you and others post about him, I think you would be justified in calling me names.
This is not accurate 212.
We were signing top flight talent until this year. Now we are signing sub150 projects and juco role players.
Actually we could be signing the #88 player in the country to replace the only starting spot that is left open this year. It is difficult to get top 100's to commit if you can't offer playing time. Looking ahead to 2015 it looks like we are right there (most likely the front runners) with two potential top 10 talents, as well as a few other top 100's. So I disagree, I think we are in great shape recruiting wise.
We really need to land Diallo and Briscoe to keep up the strong recruiting under Lavin but who says we are the front runners?
Oh, I get it. Those critical of Lavin hate him and make it personal. By that standard those who defend him love him and make it personal. Believe what you want but there is nothing more that I would like to see than Lavin sign a couple of forwards, we have a tournament team next season which leads to a great '15 class (Diallo, Briscoe) and a successful future. Just want us to win and am not happy with essentially over 10 years of bad basketball compared to the first 30 years I followed the program.
But you seem to be mistaken about my viewpoint about the team. Do you think I am happy with our last 10 years of basketball? Do you think I am happy with a first round NIT exit? No. Obviously not.
But the fact that we won 20 games, have been making improvements on a yearly basis, and have been extremely successful on the recruiting trail and show no real signs of slowing down there give me hope that Lavin is still the man for the job. I don't think I deserve to be called a pom pom waver or a kool aid drinker for that point of view. I think it's perfectly reasonable. Now if I were posting "Lavin is the greatest coach in the country" or any other positive equivalent of what you and others post about him, I think you would be justified in calling me names.
This is not accurate 212.
We were signing top flight talent until this year. Now we are signing sub150 projects and juco role players.
Actually we could be signing the #88 player in the country to replace the only starting spot that is left open this year. It is difficult to get top 100's to commit if you can't offer playing time. Looking ahead to 2015 it looks like we are right there (most likely the front runners) with two potential top 10 talents, as well as a few other top 100's. So I disagree, I think we are in great shape recruiting wise.
We really need to land Diallo and Briscoe to keep up the strong recruiting under Lavin but who says we are the front runners?
Exactly, in the hunt for sure, but can't say "front runners".
Oh, I get it. Those critical of Lavin hate him and make it personal. By that standard those who defend him love him and make it personal. Believe what you want but there is nothing more that I would like to see than Lavin sign a couple of forwards, we have a tournament team next season which leads to a great '15 class (Diallo, Briscoe) and a successful future. Just want us to win and am not happy with essentially over 10 years of bad basketball compared to the first 30 years I followed the program.
But you seem to be mistaken about my viewpoint about the team. Do you think I am happy with our last 10 years of basketball? Do you think I am happy with a first round NIT exit? No. Obviously not.
But the fact that we won 20 games, have been making improvements on a yearly basis, and have been extremely successful on the recruiting trail and show no real signs of slowing down there give me hope that Lavin is still the man for the job. I don't think I deserve to be called a pom pom waver or a kool aid drinker for that point of view. I think it's perfectly reasonable. Now if I were posting "Lavin is the greatest coach in the country" or any other positive equivalent of what you and others post about him, I think you would be justified in calling me names.
This is not accurate 212.
We were signing top flight talent until this year. Now we are signing sub150 projects and juco role players.
Actually we could be signing the #88 player in the country to replace the only starting spot that is left open this year. It is difficult to get top 100's to commit if you can't offer playing time. Looking ahead to 2015 it looks like we are right there (most likely the front runners) with two potential top 10 talents, as well as a few other top 100's. So I disagree, I think we are in great shape recruiting wise.
We really need to land Diallo and Briscoe to keep up the strong recruiting under Lavin but who says we are the front runners?
Exactly, in the hunt for sure, but can't say "front runners".
I didn't say we definitely were. But, from what I've read, if you had to speculate on which school was the front runner at this point based on the info available, hard to not say us.
Oh, I get it. Those critical of Lavin hate him and make it personal. By that standard those who defend him love him and make it personal. Believe what you want but there is nothing more that I would like to see than Lavin sign a couple of forwards, we have a tournament team next season which leads to a great '15 class (Diallo, Briscoe) and a successful future. Just want us to win and am not happy with essentially over 10 years of bad basketball compared to the first 30 years I followed the program.
But you seem to be mistaken about my viewpoint about the team. Do you think I am happy with our last 10 years of basketball? Do you think I am happy with a first round NIT exit? No. Obviously not.
But the fact that we won 20 games, have been making improvements on a yearly basis, and have been extremely successful on the recruiting trail and show no real signs of slowing down there give me hope that Lavin is still the man for the job. I don't think I deserve to be called a pom pom waver or a kool aid drinker for that point of view. I think it's perfectly reasonable. Now if I were posting "Lavin is the greatest coach in the country" or any other positive equivalent of what you and others post about him, I think you would be justified in calling me names.
This is not accurate 212.
We were signing top flight talent until this year. Now we are signing sub150 projects and juco role players.
Actually we could be signing the #88 player in the country to replace the only starting spot that is left open this year. It is difficult to get top 100's to commit if you can't offer playing time. Looking ahead to 2015 it looks like we are right there (most likely the front runners) with two potential top 10 talents, as well as a few other top 100's. So I disagree, I think we are in great shape recruiting wise.
We really need to land Diallo and Briscoe to keep up the strong recruiting under Lavin but who says we are the front runners?
Exactly, in the hunt for sure, but can't say "front runners".
I didn't say we definitely were. But, from what I've read, if you had to speculate on which school was the front runner at this point based on the info available, hard to not say us.
Too early to say that, but whatever makes you feel good. Both recruitments will be wars IMO. I am happy we are positioned well.
Oh, I get it. Those critical of Lavin hate him and make it personal. By that standard those who defend him love him and make it personal. Believe what you want but there is nothing more that I would like to see than Lavin sign a couple of forwards, we have a tournament team next season which leads to a great '15 class (Diallo, Briscoe) and a successful future. Just want us to win and am not happy with essentially over 10 years of bad basketball compared to the first 30 years I followed the program.
But you seem to be mistaken about my viewpoint about the team. Do you think I am happy with our last 10 years of basketball? Do you think I am happy with a first round NIT exit? No. Obviously not.
But the fact that we won 20 games, have been making improvements on a yearly basis, and have been extremely successful on the recruiting trail and show no real signs of slowing down there give me hope that Lavin is still the man for the job. I don't think I deserve to be called a pom pom waver or a kool aid drinker for that point of view. I think it's perfectly reasonable. Now if I were posting "Lavin is the greatest coach in the country" or any other positive equivalent of what you and others post about him, I think you would be justified in calling me names.
This is not accurate 212.
We were signing top flight talent until this year. Now we are signing sub150 projects and juco role players.
Actually we could be signing the #88 player in the country to replace the only starting spot that is left open this year. It is difficult to get top 100's to commit if you can't offer playing time. Looking ahead to 2015 it looks like we are right there (most likely the front runners) with two potential top 10 talents, as well as a few other top 100's. So I disagree, I think we are in great shape recruiting wise.
We really need to land Diallo and Briscoe to keep up the strong recruiting under Lavin but who says we are the front runners?
Exactly, in the hunt for sure, but can't say "front runners".
I didn't say we definitely were. But, from what I've read, if you had to speculate on which school was the front runner at this point based on the info available, hard to not say us.
Too early to say that, but whatever makes you feel good. Both recruitments will be wars IMO. I am happy we are positioned well.
Too early to speculate on a kids recruitment? What are these pages of recruiting threads for? Who would you say is the front runner at this time?
It's pretty much all you talk about on either board. You post as though Lavin is the worst coach you've ever seen. Like he's a clueless bufoon who just happened to find himself a D1 basketball coach. Y.
Actually, this is nail on the head accurate description of Lavins career as a basketball "coach".
If the guy wasnt such an elite recruiter, he wouldnt be fit to coach a middle school girls team. It really is astounding how a phoney like him can sham his way to an 11 year career at two programs with great legacies. His ability to recruit and make friends keeps him afloat....... for awile. Then he is exposed
You do not go to 5 sweet 16's as a guy who is not at least an average in game coach. I'm sorry, that just doesn't happen. Also, if he was really as putrid a coach as you say, he eventually would stop getting highly rated recruits. But they keep on coming. In no way am I saying he is some sort of tactician, but to make statements like he couldn't coach a middle school team, or that the only reason he has had a successful 11 year coaching career is because of his friends is just stupid and untrue.