Ranking the Big East Coaches
- Thread starter Eddyman11
- Start date
westchesterjoe
Active member
That's a fair opinion.. I don't see Obepka being coxed back to the team as a big win for the team but, we can hope he delivers more than he has and isn't divisive again. His task will be to put up numbers in the scoring, rebounding, free trow stats and, not foul out in so many games or, be ineffective due to his fouls. I'm skeptical he has it in him but, who knows. Lavin the great teacher/motivator will need all his skills to get through to CO next year. I'm not sure STEVE HAS IT IN HIM EITHER. JUST MY OPINION.
You sound like a broken record with your strawman arguments. Guess your favorite baseball player was Daryl "the strawman" Strawberry, and your favorite movie character was the strawman in the Wizard of Oz. You are the one who beats a dead horse with your superfluous comments in defending Lavin at every hint of criticism which is why a straight shooter like Paultzman felt it necessary to add his disclaimer that he hoped his post would not be interpreted as bashing Lavin. But you are so defensive when it comes to Lavin that I am sure you don't even see that.. setting up a "strawman" is to set up a fake argument-so how can my defenders of the shield comment be fake when we have Dinkins. Fordham, Simplyred, and redmen212 chiming in on any perceived knocks at Lavin. have a feeling if Lavin read these boards he would not care as much as you guys and would laugh it off but you guys just continue to try and bully everyone. Let's just hope Lavin can have some recruiting success so we can ALL be happy and maybe get a long for 5 minutes.
westchesterjoe
Active member
That's a JOKE, ISN'T IT? you think you can dish it out but, you can't take it yourself.. YOUR reply speaks volumes about your incapacity to take any criticism yourself.
YOU STARTED THIS CONFLICT LONG AGO AND, you've been allowed to continue to personally attack many posters here... NO ONE IS AFRAID OF SOME IMPLIED THREAT and, it is a threat you've communicated many times before. it's empty and everyone knows it, except you....IT FURTHER DEMEANS YOU, IF THAT'S POSSIBLE.
WHY would I or, anyone want to meet you in person, to discuss basketball or anything...
westchesterjoe
Active member
You've proved my point beyond a reasonable doubt with this comment...
you've been asked politely and privately. you've been warned when that doesn't work. you are wasting people's time. Nobody is interested in your bickering, personal grudges, face saving commentary etc. All it does is make you look ridiculous and in the process annoy everyone.
prove that you are not an idiot. knock off the personal attacks, period. zero tolerance. or keep it up and prove definitively that you are.
prove that you are not an idiot. knock off the personal attacks, period. zero tolerance. or keep it up and prove definitively that you are.
I support Lavin. I think, i the long run, he will have us winning. Find me a post where I said he is a great in game coach (not that I think I am qualified to really say). Most of my posts challenge what I perceive to be hyperbolic statements, or opinions stated as fact. I don't really challenge reasonable criticism.
Lavin made some glaring coaching errors this year. He also did some things (such as starting a walkon) that we knock without knowing why he did it. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think I just try to take a reasonable position on things, rather that the extreme. Frankly, my positions are so bland that I'm flattered that you mentioned me in your post.
Lavin made some glaring coaching errors this year. He also did some things (such as starting a walkon) that we knock without knowing why he did it. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think I just try to take a reasonable position on things, rather that the extreme. Frankly, my positions are so bland that I'm flattered that you mentioned me in your post.
Hopefully this year Lavin will have a healthy year. Towards the end of the season he was looking kind of worn out to me. I hope there are no unknown health issues involved.
When I'm looking at a head coach I also like to consider the whole staff and the support he gets from his number one.
Who is Lavin relying on in practice and during the game? I don't recall seeing any conversation with coaches on the sidelines.
When I'm looking at a head coach I also like to consider the whole staff and the support he gets from his number one.
Who is Lavin relying on in practice and during the game? I don't recall seeing any conversation with coaches on the sidelines.
Wow, this thread really took off since I last checked. Here's my two cents........
I rate Ed Cooley as a very good coach who did an amazing job this year. In fact, he (deservingly so) was 1 of 15 finalist for the Jim Phelan National Coach of the Year Award. When taking just this year into account, it is not reasonable to consider Lavin in the same league as Cooley.
When looking at the overall debate, it has been mentioned that Coach Cooley has not done anything "consistently". To that, I encourage you to look at his career head coaching record. Here are his win totals during his years with Fairfield and Providence.
2007 Fairfield (13 wins)
2008 Fairfield (14 wins)
2009 Fairfield (17 wins)
2010 Fairfield (23 wins)
2011 Fairfield (25 wins)
2012 Providence (15 wins)
2013 Providence (19 wins)
2014 Providence (23 wins)
Please know that I do not think Coach Cooley is the end-all-be-all. However, I do think his record consistently demonstrates value-added. There is literally growth every single year. The guy has to be doing something right.
As for Lavin, I rate him as an overall poor basketball coach. What perplexes me most is our willingness to settle for a coach that does half the job well. I do think he is a strong recruiter (probably an excellent "closer", much like a strong salesman). However, we also know the countless examples of poor in-game coaching, outrageous line-ups, and listless performances. Many (or maybe even most) Lavin supporters will agree that he is not particularly good at coaching basketball. It is usually followed by the hope that an assistant coach can "step-up" and carry the load in this area. I don't get this??? It's true, St. John's is not Kentucky or North Carolina. However, I do think St. John's is a program that can demand someone who can both recruit and coach. I refuse to believe we have to settle for someone who is grossly deficient in a very important part of the job.
I rate Ed Cooley as a very good coach who did an amazing job this year. In fact, he (deservingly so) was 1 of 15 finalist for the Jim Phelan National Coach of the Year Award. When taking just this year into account, it is not reasonable to consider Lavin in the same league as Cooley.
When looking at the overall debate, it has been mentioned that Coach Cooley has not done anything "consistently". To that, I encourage you to look at his career head coaching record. Here are his win totals during his years with Fairfield and Providence.
2007 Fairfield (13 wins)
2008 Fairfield (14 wins)
2009 Fairfield (17 wins)
2010 Fairfield (23 wins)
2011 Fairfield (25 wins)
2012 Providence (15 wins)
2013 Providence (19 wins)
2014 Providence (23 wins)
Please know that I do not think Coach Cooley is the end-all-be-all. However, I do think his record consistently demonstrates value-added. There is literally growth every single year. The guy has to be doing something right.
As for Lavin, I rate him as an overall poor basketball coach. What perplexes me most is our willingness to settle for a coach that does half the job well. I do think he is a strong recruiter (probably an excellent "closer", much like a strong salesman). However, we also know the countless examples of poor in-game coaching, outrageous line-ups, and listless performances. Many (or maybe even most) Lavin supporters will agree that he is not particularly good at coaching basketball. It is usually followed by the hope that an assistant coach can "step-up" and carry the load in this area. I don't get this??? It's true, St. John's is not Kentucky or North Carolina. However, I do think St. John's is a program that can demand someone who can both recruit and coach. I refuse to believe we have to settle for someone who is grossly deficient in a very important part of the job.
Cooley is gonna have show me more, and he hasn't done anything to separate himself from Lavin, IMO. Granted, his record steadily got better at Fairfield and, so far, Providence. I wanna see him do it over the long haul. He's shown progress, but he'll need to show me more, in order to believe he's clearly ahead of Lavin. If you wanna take that particular route, then Lavin has won, as well.
I don't care about someone being a finalist for a yearly award. That's irrelevant. John Thompson, III and John Brady were once finalists for that particular award. I don't particularly think JT3 is a strong coach and Brady was fired by LSU.
There are quite a few coaches who I feel are better than Lavin. But Cooley ain't one of 'em.
If progression is what you like, let's take a look at Lavin since he brought in his first batch of players
St John's (13-19)
St John's (17-16)
St John's (20-13)
It looks like progression is happening here. It's funny though I get the feeling you hate Lavin, judging by your posts.
And don't get me wrong, I don't think Lavin is a great coach, but I think he has us steered in the right direction. I couldn't have said that three weeks ago, but the return of obekpa and Greene, commit from ADR, 5 bigs considering joining St. John's next year (hoping he we get 3/5), it seems as if we might be able to rise up to 23-24 wins next year, furthering our progress, and definitely putting us in the tournament.
They did tie in the standings, but I am sure you watched the games. Our team didn't hold a candle to Providence. That team was motivated, hungry, prideful, and played well together. We were inconsistent, clueless and unmotivated in our most meaningful games.
Good point......same measure does show progression. Of course, you omitted year 1 for Lavin, but not Cooley. I just thought it was unfair to say Cooley hasn't been consistent.
I don't hate Lavin. That's a strong word and I am sure he is a good man. I do think he is an abysmal coach. There is just so many examples and, now, two separate fan bases that have observed the exact same deficiencies. Again, I just don't think St. John's needs to settle for this. With Lavin, there will always by the next over-hyped recruit on the way. Before you know it, we will be ten years into this guy and have nothing to show for it.