Ranking the Big East Coaches

[MJDinkins]

I don't think Cooley is second coming of John Wooden when it comes to X&Os. That said, I just think he did better overall coaching job last season than Steve Lavin. All in all, let's see what Cooley can do this year, after losing two critical pieces in Batts & Cotton. At the same time, provided we get Thomas, I would hope Lav can achieve better results than last year with this veteran team. Hopefully this is viewed as constructive discussion, not Lavin bashing.

IMHO no need for your last sentence disclaimer. Never felt you have bashed anyone. But I understand your sensitivity in not wanting to be harangued by the defenders of the shield.

Exactly.

Those who constantly toe the line but then jump in for the rescue when Lavin's name may be sullied.

Since when is a head coach above criticism? It would be a first in sports.

Seems the fanbase has cheered more for talks of hopes and promises than results over the past 3 years.

A flame/bait post by bamafan.

Besides, no one ever said a coach is above criticism. A straw man. Lavin deserved to be criticize this past season. Some of these posts goes above and beyond criticism. Caustic-like tone and people going out of their way to mention the coach in a thread. There have also been posts that came off like it was personal. Why derail every, single thread with bashing of the coach? It becomes boring and tedious at some point. Some people do wanna talk about basketball, and not have to come and see thread after thread roasting the coach. The horse is dead.

 

[MJDinkins]

I agree with Paultzman that Cooley did a better job than Lavin this year. The proof is in the results. My post was aimed at the statement that Cooley "ran circles" around Lavin. Again, hyperbole.

Ran circles around him is just as ridiculous as bringing up the fact that he out recruited him. It's marginalizing what this is all about.

All that matters is winning.

Let's see him win over the long haul.

 

[paultzman]

I agree with Paultzman that Cooley did a better job than Lavin this year. The proof is in the results. My post was aimed at the statement that Cooley "ran circles" around Lavin. Again, hyperbole.

Ran circles around him is just as ridiculous as bringing up the fact that he out recruited him. It's marginalizing what this is all about.

All that matters is winning.

Let's see him win over the long haul.

Dink, do you feel Lavin has a better chance of getting the program to a consistently competitive level than Cooley?

 

[MJDinkins]

I agree with Paultzman that Cooley did a better job than Lavin this year. The proof is in the results. My post was aimed at the statement that Cooley "ran circles" around Lavin. Again, hyperbole.

Ran circles around him is just as ridiculous as bringing up the fact that he out recruited him. It's marginalizing what this is all about.

All that matters is winning.

Let's see him win over the long haul.

Dink, do you feel Lavin has a better chance of getting the program to a consistently competitive level than Cooley?

IMO, Cooley really hasn't done anything consistently.

 

[SJU1512]

How did Cooley run circles around Lavin? With double OT win at our place and loss at home? Or the BET, where some of our players essentially quit on their teammates?

Cooley's advantage was that he got his guys to play hard for him and Lavin couldn't (at times). I really put our late season failures on the kids. Two years in a tow, we had someone sabotage our season. That should not be allowed to happen again.

A veteran-laden team, who also had talent, that brought it. Kudos to them! That's how you're suppose to play. His best player also had the ball in his hands for the most part. A player that can not only shoot, but take it to the rack. Add that in with what you and I mentioned about them also playing hard, then you can garner some success.

In no way, I feel he ran circles around Lavin.

Perhaps "run circles" was a strong descriptor (although I would not back off of it for what Xavier did to us twice this year).

But in viewing that Cooley out-coached Lavin this year, I'm looking at the game within the results. I noted this the day after the game, but Lavin played Rysheed Jordan 13 minutes in the first game. Greene 38, Dom 34. Cooley's hand was forced, but Cotton/Fortune getting 100 minutes to Jordan's 13 played a role in that game even getting to OT in the first place. Forget comparing him to anyone else, this was an egregious offense by Lavin in my book (one of the worst of the season) in what ended up being a critical loss.

In the second game we came out blazing - credit to Lavin for having us ready and it being the first game he really turned our full court defensive pressure loose. We commit the oldest mistake in the book (go away from what's working and suddenly slow it down) and Providence took it from 21 to 6 in 10 minutes. We held on - again credit to Lavin. But what stands out to me from this game is that Providence scored on five out of bounds plays underneath to our 0. Small potatoes perhaps, but those are the kind of areas where you get an edge.

The third game needs little discussion. We were in a great groove with Jordan, Harrison, Branch, Sampson, and Sanchez. 29-22 good guys. Lavin goes to his boys - which is his achilles heel as a coach for us - Pointer and Greene (32 minutes, 2 points combined) for a comedy of errors of missed dunks/layups and Providence goes on a 41-17 run over the next 20 minutes of basketball. Credit to Lavin for bringing in a full 5 off the bench when all seemed lost, and getting within a soft Jakarr miss at the rim away from pulling it off, but those substitutions at 29-22 were crippling. By that time virtually everyone was aware what Greene and Pointer were for our team - nothing against them - except for the coach.

Cooley didn't do anything particularly special, but far more steady in my opinion. Just my opinion, I can certainly see arguments to the contra. I'm not saying Cooley is the next Billy D, nor do I think Lavin is incapable. As you mentioned, Lavin has out-recruited Cooley head-to-head more than once, which is another aspect of coaching.

What I was getting at was the notion that Providence and St. John's were on the same footing this year. They were not. Look at virtually any publication's predictions and they are below us. Look at the predictions on this site and they were 2-4 slots below us. That was before they lost 3 rotation pieces. Cooley got his team to perform at a minimum to their talent level, and in my opinion he got more than that out of them this year. We underperformed significantly. Edge Cooly for 2013-2014 for that reason. Like Paultz, just my opinion, not an attempt at a Lavin bash. I certainly hope to feel differently at the end of 14/15.

 

[MJDinkins]

How did Cooley run circles around Lavin? With double OT win at our place and loss at home? Or the BET, where some of our players essentially quit on their teammates?

Cooley's advantage was that he got his guys to play hard for him and Lavin couldn't (at times). I really put our late season failures on the kids. Two years in a tow, we had someone sabotage our season. That should not be allowed to happen again.

A veteran-laden team, who also had talent, that brought it. Kudos to them! That's how you're suppose to play. His best player also had the ball in his hands for the most part. A player that can not only shoot, but take it to the rack. Add that in with what you and I mentioned about them also playing hard, then you can garner some success.

In no way, I feel he ran circles around Lavin.

Perhaps "run circles" was a strong descriptor (although I would not back off of it for what Xavier did to us twice this year).

But in viewing that Cooley out-coached Lavin this year, I'm looking at the game within the results. I noted this the day after the game, but Lavin played Rysheed Jordan 13 minutes in the first game. Greene 38, Dom 34. Cooley's hand was forced, but Cotton/Fortune getting 100 minutes to Jordan's 13 played a role in that game even getting to OT in the first place. Forget comparing him to anyone else, this was an egregious offense by Lavin in my book (one of the worst of the season) in what ended up being a critical loss.

In the second game we came out blazing - credit to Lavin for having us ready and it being the first game he really turned our full court defensive pressure loose. We commit the oldest mistake in the book (go away from what's working and suddenly slow it down) and Providence took it from 21 to 6 in 10 minutes. We held on - again credit to Lavin. But what stands out to me from this game is that Providence scored on five out of bounds plays underneath to our 0. Small potatoes perhaps, but those are the kind of areas where you get an edge.

The third game needs little discussion. We were in a great groove with Jordan, Harrison, Branch, Sampson, and Sanchez. 29-22 good guys. Lavin goes to his boys - which is his achilles heel as a coach for us - Pointer and Greene (32 minutes, 2 points combined) for a comedy of errors of missed dunks/layups and Providence goes on a 41-17 run over the next 20 minutes of basketball. Credit to Lavin for bringing in a full 5 off the bench when all seeemed lost, and getting within a soft Jakarr miss at the rim away from pulling it off, but those substitutions at 29-22 were crippling. By that time virtually everyone was aware what Greene and Pointer were for our team - nothing against the - except for the coach.

Cooley didn't do anything particularly special, but far more steady in my opinion. Just my opinion, I can certainly see arguments to the contra. I'm not saying Cooley is the next Billy D, nor do I think Lavin is incapable. As you mentioned, Lavin has out-recruited Cooley head-to-head more than once, which is another aspect of coaching.

What I was getting at was the notion that Providence and St. John's were on the same footing this year. They were not. Look at virtually any publication's predictions and they are below us. Look at the predictions on this site and they were 2-4 slots below us. That was before they lost 3 rotation pieces. Cooley got his team to perform at a minimum to their talent level, and in my opinion he got more than that out of them this year. We underperformed significantly. Edge Cooly for 2013-2014 for that reason. Like Paultz, just my opinion, not an attempt at a Lavin bash. I certainly hope to feel differently at the end of 14/15.

I didn't take your post as a bash, as your posts are generally even-keeled and level-headed (I, too, thought Mack had his way with us).

 

[1and1sju]

I agree with Paultzman that Cooley did a better job than Lavin this year. The proof is in the results. My post was aimed at the statement that Cooley "ran circles" around Lavin. Again, hyperbole.

Ran circles around him is just as ridiculous as bringing up the fact that he out recruited him. It's marginalizing what this is all about.

All that matters is winning.

Let's see him win over the long haul.

Dink, do you feel Lavin has a better chance of getting the program to a consistently competitive level than Cooley?

IMO, Cooley really hasn't done anything consistently.

He hasn't really. And neither has Lavin. But that wasn't the question. Who do you think has a better chance to make St Johns consistently competitive? I'm curious to hear your response

 

[paultzman]

I agree with Paultzman that Cooley did a better job than Lavin this year. The proof is in the results. My post was aimed at the statement that Cooley "ran circles" around Lavin. Again, hyperbole.

Ran circles around him is just as ridiculous as bringing up the fact that he out recruited him. It's marginalizing what this is all about.

All that matters is winning.

Let's see him win over the long haul.

Dink, do you feel Lavin has a better chance of getting the program to a consistently competitive level than Cooley?

IMO, Cooley really hasn't done anything consistently.

Not to beat this to death, I was just asking who you had more confidence in re: achieving sustainable success in the Big East. Thanks.

 

[MJDinkins]

I agree with Paultzman that Cooley did a better job than Lavin this year. The proof is in the results. My post was aimed at the statement that Cooley "ran circles" around Lavin. Again, hyperbole.

Ran circles around him is just as ridiculous as bringing up the fact that he out recruited him. It's marginalizing what this is all about.

All that matters is winning.

Let's see him win over the long haul.

Dink, do you feel Lavin has a better chance of getting the program to a consistently competitive level than Cooley?

IMO, Cooley really hasn't done anything consistently.

He hasn't really. And neither has Lavin. But that wasn't the question. Who do you think has a better chance to make St Johns consistently competitive? I'm curious to hear your response

How can I answer the question when I don't think Cooley has done anything with consistency? So, if I don't believe Cooley has done anything with consistency, then that voids the question.

 

[MJDinkins]

I agree with Paultzman that Cooley did a better job than Lavin this year. The proof is in the results. My post was aimed at the statement that Cooley "ran circles" around Lavin. Again, hyperbole.

Ran circles around him is just as ridiculous as bringing up the fact that he out recruited him. It's marginalizing what this is all about.

All that matters is winning.

Let's see him win over the long haul.

Dink, do you feel Lavin has a better chance of getting the program to a consistently competitive level than Cooley?

IMO, Cooley really hasn't done anything consistently.

Not to beat this to death, I was just asking who you had more confidence in re: achieving sustainable success in the Big East. Thanks.

I'll go with the coach of the team who I root for since neither coach has shown to be clear cut above one another.

 

[SJUalum98]

I don't think Cooley is second coming of John Wooden when it comes to X&Os. That said, I just think he did better overall coaching job last season than Steve Lavin. All in all, let's see what Cooley can do this year, after losing two critical pieces in Batts & Cotton. At the same time, provided we get Thomas, I would hope Lav can achieve better results than last year with this veteran team. Hopefully this is viewed as constructive discussion, not Lavin bashing.

IMHO no need for your last sentence disclaimer. Never felt you have bashed anyone. But I understand your sensitivity in not wanting to be harangued by the defenders of the shield.

Exactly.

Those who constantly toe the line but then jump in for the rescue when Lavin's name may be sullied.

Since when is a head coach above criticism? It would be a first in sports.

Seems the fanbase has cheered more for talks of hopes and promises than results over the past 3 years.

A flame/bait post by bamafan.

Besides, no one ever said a coach is above criticism. A straw man. Lavin deserved to be criticize this past season. Some of these posts goes above and beyond criticism. Caustic-like tone and people going out of their way to mention the coach in a thread. There have also been posts that came off like it was personal. Why derail every, single thread with bashing of the coach? It becomes boring and tedious at some point. Some people do wanna talk about basketball, and not have to come and see thread after thread roasting the coach. The horse is dead.

A forum is no different than social media, sports talk radio, etc.

Fans are free to discuss what they want. If someone doesn't like it, what is stopping them from ignoring it other than jumping in to defend their beloved coach?

The horse is dead means what? Stop talking about him negatively?

The people do come here to discuss basketball. What can be discussed if there's no clear strategy, no clear gameplan, no clear cohesiveness of the team?

I don't remember people bashing the coaching in the Harkless/Nurideen year and we were losing. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall it.

The people got mad when there was no excuses and promises were made, players were hyped but nothing was lived up to.

 

[paultzman]

I agree with Paultzman that Cooley did a better job than Lavin this year. The proof is in the results. My post was aimed at the statement that Cooley "ran circles" around Lavin. Again, hyperbole.

Ran circles around him is just as ridiculous as bringing up the fact that he out recruited him. It's marginalizing what this is all about.

All that matters is winning.

Let's see him win over the long haul.

Dink, do you feel Lavin has a better chance of getting the program to a consistently competitive level than Cooley?

IMO, Cooley really hasn't done anything consistently.

Not to beat this to death, I was just asking who you had more confidence in re: achieving sustainable success in the Big East. Thanks.

I'll go with the coach of the team who I root for since neither coach has shown to be clear cut above one another.

Better answer. Thx D

 

[MJDinkins]

I don't think Cooley is second coming of John Wooden when it comes to X&Os. That said, I just think he did better overall coaching job last season than Steve Lavin. All in all, let's see what Cooley can do this year, after losing two critical pieces in Batts & Cotton. At the same time, provided we get Thomas, I would hope Lav can achieve better results than last year with this veteran team. Hopefully this is viewed as constructive discussion, not Lavin bashing.

IMHO no need for your last sentence disclaimer. Never felt you have bashed anyone. But I understand your sensitivity in not wanting to be harangued by the defenders of the shield.

Exactly.

Those who constantly toe the line but then jump in for the rescue when Lavin's name may be sullied.

Since when is a head coach above criticism? It would be a first in sports.

Seems the fanbase has cheered more for talks of hopes and promises than results over the past 3 years.

A flame/bait post by bamafan.

Besides, no one ever said a coach is above criticism. A straw man. Lavin deserved to be criticize this past season. Some of these posts goes above and beyond criticism. Caustic-like tone and people going out of their way to mention the coach in a thread. There have also been posts that came off like it was personal. Why derail every, single thread with bashing of the coach? It becomes boring and tedious at some point. Some people do wanna talk about basketball, and not have to come and see thread after thread roasting the coach. The horse is dead.

A forum is no different than social media, sports talk radio, etc.

Fans are free to discuss what they want. If someone doesn't like it, what is stopping them from ignoring it other than jumping in to defend their beloved coach?

The horse is dead means what? Stop talking about him negatively?

The people do come here to discuss basketball. What can be discussed if there's no clear strategy, no clear gameplan, no clear cohesiveness of the team?

I don't remember people bashing the coaching in the Harkless/Nurideen year and we were losing. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall it.

The people got mad when there was no excuses and promises were made, players were hyped but nothing was lived up to.

A message board isn't particularly what you think it is. You're looking for a blog, which is different than a message board.

You don't know the difference between defending the coach versus defending foolishness. Like I told a couple of others, who I occasionally converse with outside of the board.... It's not necessarily or always about defending the coach. It's about squashing opinions that is being conveyed as facts, as well, as speaking up for tedious and boring talk that takes away from a board.

So, you don't remember posters going ballistic when we were losing during Lindsey's and Harkless' time at St. John's? Go dig through some threads from that time. Plenty of whining going on. Especially, during the latter part of the season.

So, you were expecting something, and it didn't happen, so you decide to whine and complain at every, single turn, huh? Why place your hostility on someone else? You should place some blame on yourself, if you're constantly upset on something that didn't happen because you were told it would happen. Show some responsibility and just be mad because you didn't like how the season went, instead of blaming your hostility, based on how you were told it would go. That sounds like a child.

 

[SJUalum98]

I don't think Cooley is second coming of John Wooden when it comes to X&Os. That said, I just think he did better overall coaching job last season than Steve Lavin. All in all, let's see what Cooley can do this year, after losing two critical pieces in Batts & Cotton. At the same time, provided we get Thomas, I would hope Lav can achieve better results than last year with this veteran team. Hopefully this is viewed as constructive discussion, not Lavin bashing.

IMHO no need for your last sentence disclaimer. Never felt you have bashed anyone. But I understand your sensitivity in not wanting to be harangued by the defenders of the shield.

Exactly.

Those who constantly toe the line but then jump in for the rescue when Lavin's name may be sullied.

Since when is a head coach above criticism? It would be a first in sports.

Seems the fanbase has cheered more for talks of hopes and promises than results over the past 3 years.

A flame/bait post by bamafan.

Besides, no one ever said a coach is above criticism. A straw man. Lavin deserved to be criticize this past season. Some of these posts goes above and beyond criticism. Caustic-like tone and people going out of their way to mention the coach in a thread. There have also been posts that came off like it was personal. Why derail every, single thread with bashing of the coach? It becomes boring and tedious at some point. Some people do wanna talk about basketball, and not have to come and see thread after thread roasting the coach. The horse is dead.

A forum is no different than social media, sports talk radio, etc.

Fans are free to discuss what they want. If someone doesn't like it, what is stopping them from ignoring it other than jumping in to defend their beloved coach?

The horse is dead means what? Stop talking about him negatively?

The people do come here to discuss basketball. What can be discussed if there's no clear strategy, no clear gameplan, no clear cohesiveness of the team?

I don't remember people bashing the coaching in the Harkless/Nurideen year and we were losing. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall it.

The people got mad when there was no excuses and promises were made, players were hyped but nothing was lived up to.

A message board isn't particularly what you think it is. You're looking for a blog, which is different than a message board.

You don't know the difference between defending the coach versus defending foolishness. Like I told a couple of others, who I occasionally converse with outside of the board.... It's not necessarily or always about defending the coach. It's about squashing thing put out that is opinionated that is being conveyed as facts, as well, as speaking up for tedious and boring talk that takes away from a board.

So, you don't remember posters going ballistic when we were losing during Lindsey's and Harkless' time at St. John's? Get real! Go dig through some threads from that time. Plenty of whining going on.

So, you were expecting something, and it didn't happen, so you decide to whine and complain at every, single turn, huh? Why place your hostility on someone else? You should place some blame on yourself, if you're constantly upset on something that didn't happen because you were told it would happen. Show some responsibility and just be mad because you didn't like how the season went, instead on blaming your hostility on what you were told how it would go. That sounds like a child.

The hostility is coming from your end.

I'm straight. B)

95% of this post was just emotional responses from you.

If you want to talk basketball, we can. If not, I'll gladly move on.

Since when is people talking back and forth a blog? A blog is one person. This is a conversation.

And the complaints during the Nuri year was about Nuri's selfishness and lack of an outside shot, not the coaching.

That team had an identity. Everyone knew when they played SJU they were going to face the matchup zone and the players were going to hustle until the final whistle.

What is our identity today? Ask the fanbase who the go-to player is on the team and you'll get 2 different responses.

Like I said, you can stay in your feelings and try to muzzle everyone's gripes with the state of our basketball programs and continue with name calling and baiting people into arguments.

Or you can discuss basketball like you claim you want to...

 

[westchesterjoe]

Cooley's Providence team won the BE Tournament this year. Providence beat us 2 of 3. Lavin hasn't sniffed a BE tournament Championship yet..Cooley is a better coach on this fact alone.

If Cooley's Friar's played against Robt Morris in the NIT, would his team quit like ours did? Cooley's team never quit all year. Hard to see them losing to RM. Ed wins this match up too.

Recruiting? Sampson's gone but, was on the team that lost 2 of 3 to the FRIARS.. OBEPKA scores less than 4pts a game,is foul prone and can't play defense, other than block a few shots. He is a poor free throw shooter. Did Cooley suffer by not getting these 2 guys? doubtful. So, who really won that recruiting battle? NO ONE!

 

[MJDinkins]

I don't think Cooley is second coming of John Wooden when it comes to X&Os. That said, I just think he did better overall coaching job last season than Steve Lavin. All in all, let's see what Cooley can do this year, after losing two critical pieces in Batts & Cotton. At the same time, provided we get Thomas, I would hope Lav can achieve better results than last year with this veteran team. Hopefully this is viewed as constructive discussion, not Lavin bashing.

IMHO no need for your last sentence disclaimer. Never felt you have bashed anyone. But I understand your sensitivity in not wanting to be harangued by the defenders of the shield.

Exactly.

Those who constantly toe the line but then jump in for the rescue when Lavin's name may be sullied.

Since when is a head coach above criticism? It would be a first in sports.

Seems the fanbase has cheered more for talks of hopes and promises than results over the past 3 years.

A flame/bait post by bamafan.

Besides, no one ever said a coach is above criticism. A straw man. Lavin deserved to be criticize this past season. Some of these posts goes above and beyond criticism. Caustic-like tone and people going out of their way to mention the coach in a thread. There have also been posts that came off like it was personal. Why derail every, single thread with bashing of the coach? It becomes boring and tedious at some point. Some people do wanna talk about basketball, and not have to come and see thread after thread roasting the coach. The horse is dead.

A forum is no different than social media, sports talk radio, etc.

Fans are free to discuss what they want. If someone doesn't like it, what is stopping them from ignoring it other than jumping in to defend their beloved coach?

The horse is dead means what? Stop talking about him negatively?

The people do come here to discuss basketball. What can be discussed if there's no clear strategy, no clear gameplan, no clear cohesiveness of the team?

I don't remember people bashing the coaching in the Harkless/Nurideen year and we were losing. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall it.

The people got mad when there was no excuses and promises were made, players were hyped but nothing was lived up to.

A message board isn't particularly what you think it is. You're looking for a blog, which is different than a message board.

You don't know the difference between defending the coach versus defending foolishness. Like I told a couple of others, who I occasionally converse with outside of the board.... It's not necessarily or always about defending the coach. It's about squashing thing put out that is opinionated that is being conveyed as facts, as well, as speaking up for tedious and boring talk that takes away from a board.

So, you don't remember posters going ballistic when we were losing during Lindsey's and Harkless' time at St. John's? Get real! Go dig through some threads from that time. Plenty of whining going on.

So, you were expecting something, and it didn't happen, so you decide to whine and complain at every, single turn, huh? Why place your hostility on someone else? You should place some blame on yourself, if you're constantly upset on something that didn't happen because you were told it would happen. Show some responsibility and just be mad because you didn't like how the season went, instead on blaming your hostility on what you were told how it would go. That sounds like a child.

The hostility is coming from your end.

I'm straight. B)

95% of this post was just emotional responses from you.

If you want to talk basketball, we can. If not, I'll gladly move on.

Since when is people talking back and forth a blog? A blog is one person. This is a conversation.

And the complaints during the Nuri year was about Nuri's selfishness and lack of an outside shot, not the coaching.

That team had an identity. Everyone knew when they played SJU they were going to face the matchup zone and the players were going to hustle until the final whistle.

What is our identity today? Ask the fanbase who the go-to player is on the team and you'll get 2 different responses.

Like I said, you can stay in your feelings and try to muzzle everyone's gripes with the state of our basketball programs and continue with name calling and baiting people into arguments.

Or you can discuss basketball like you claim you want to...

No hostility on my end. Just speaking based on my observation and what you stated in your previous post. Not to mention, I think you mainly post on emotion, as I've stated a few other times.

If you think all of the complaints where based on Lindsey, then you're wrong. First of all, Lindsey was gone before Christmas of that season. There were quite a bit of complaining well into conference play. Go and look back and threads and posts from that season. Those same threads and posts are still on the board.

You can say what whatever you like about me, man. It's all to the good. I only come out when foolishness is constantly being posted. I'm sure you know all about it, as you tend to post your share.

A good, try, but lame attempt at the end.

 

[SJUalum98]

I don't think Cooley is second coming of John Wooden when it comes to X&Os. That said, I just think he did better overall coaching job last season than Steve Lavin. All in all, let's see what Cooley can do this year, after losing two critical pieces in Batts & Cotton. At the same time, provided we get Thomas, I would hope Lav can achieve better results than last year with this veteran team. Hopefully this is viewed as constructive discussion, not Lavin bashing.

IMHO no need for your last sentence disclaimer. Never felt you have bashed anyone. But I understand your sensitivity in not wanting to be harangued by the defenders of the shield.

Exactly.

Those who constantly toe the line but then jump in for the rescue when Lavin's name may be sullied.

Since when is a head coach above criticism? It would be a first in sports.

Seems the fanbase has cheered more for talks of hopes and promises than results over the past 3 years.

A flame/bait post by bamafan.

Besides, no one ever said a coach is above criticism. A straw man. Lavin deserved to be criticize this past season. Some of these posts goes above and beyond criticism. Caustic-like tone and people going out of their way to mention the coach in a thread. There have also been posts that came off like it was personal. Why derail every, single thread with bashing of the coach? It becomes boring and tedious at some point. Some people do wanna talk about basketball, and not have to come and see thread after thread roasting the coach. The horse is dead.

A forum is no different than social media, sports talk radio, etc.

Fans are free to discuss what they want. If someone doesn't like it, what is stopping them from ignoring it other than jumping in to defend their beloved coach?

The horse is dead means what? Stop talking about him negatively?

The people do come here to discuss basketball. What can be discussed if there's no clear strategy, no clear gameplan, no clear cohesiveness of the team?

I don't remember people bashing the coaching in the Harkless/Nurideen year and we were losing. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall it.

The people got mad when there was no excuses and promises were made, players were hyped but nothing was lived up to.

A message board isn't particularly what you think it is. You're looking for a blog, which is different than a message board.

You don't know the difference between defending the coach versus defending foolishness. Like I told a couple of others, who I occasionally converse with outside of the board.... It's not necessarily or always about defending the coach. It's about squashing thing put out that is opinionated that is being conveyed as facts, as well, as speaking up for tedious and boring talk that takes away from a board.

So, you don't remember posters going ballistic when we were losing during Lindsey's and Harkless' time at St. John's? Get real! Go dig through some threads from that time. Plenty of whining going on.

So, you were expecting something, and it didn't happen, so you decide to whine and complain at every, single turn, huh? Why place your hostility on someone else? You should place some blame on yourself, if you're constantly upset on something that didn't happen because you were told it would happen. Show some responsibility and just be mad because you didn't like how the season went, instead on blaming your hostility on what you were told how it would go. That sounds like a child.

The hostility is coming from your end.

I'm straight. B)

95% of this post was just emotional responses from you.

If you want to talk basketball, we can. If not, I'll gladly move on.

Since when is people talking back and forth a blog? A blog is one person. This is a conversation.

And the complaints during the Nuri year was about Nuri's selfishness and lack of an outside shot, not the coaching.

That team had an identity. Everyone knew when they played SJU they were going to face the matchup zone and the players were going to hustle until the final whistle.

What is our identity today? Ask the fanbase who the go-to player is on the team and you'll get 2 different responses.

Like I said, you can stay in your feelings and try to muzzle everyone's gripes with the state of our basketball programs and continue with name calling and baiting people into arguments.

Or you can discuss basketball like you claim you want to...

No hostility on my end. Just speaking based on my observation and what you stated in your previous post. Not to mention, I think you mainly post on emotion, as I've stated a few other times.

If you think all of the complaints where based on Lindsey, then you're wrong. First of all, Lindsey was gone before Christmas of that season. There were quite a bit of complaining well into conference play. Go and look back and threads and posts from that season. Those same threads and posts are still on the board.

You can say what whatever you like about me, man. It's all to the good. I only come out when foolishness is constantly being posted. I'm sure you know all about it, as you tend to post your share.

A good, try, but lame attempt at the end.

I'm not going to look back at the threads. Enough posters here can recall the optimism we had going into each game under Dunlap before and during conference play.

And since you're deciding to stay in your feelings, I'll just sit this one out.

 

[redfazed]

Cooley's Providence team won the BE Tournament this year. Providence beat us 2 of 3. Lavin hasn't sniffed a BE tournament Championship yet..Cooley is a better coach on this fact alone.

If Cooley's Friar's played against Robt Morris in the NIT, would his team quit like ours did? Cooley's team never quit all year. Hard to see them losing to RM. Ed wins this match up too.

Recruiting? Sampson's gone but, was on the team that lost 2 of 3 to the FRIARS.. OBEPKA scores less than 4pts a game,is foul prone and can't play defense, other than block a few shots. He is a poor free throw shooter. Did Cooley suffer by not getting these 2 guys? doubtful. So, who really won that recruiting battle? NO ONE!

I think that's taking it a little too far. Obekpa coming back (as it were) is going to make an enormous difference, IMO, with Sanchez and Gift gone. I still am not convinced that Jakarr, for all his flaws, can be replaced on the scoring front. We'll see.

 

[MJDinkins]

I'm not going to look back at the threads. Enough posters here can recall the optimism we had going into each game under Dunlap before and during conference play.

Stop commenting on something that you don't have any recollection of occurring. You're also full of it to keep stating no one had complaints about the coaching, but won't go back to look it up. Keep pushing your obvious agenda. There were posters complaining during that season.

 

[westchesterjoe]

I don't think Cooley is second coming of John Wooden when it comes to X&Os. That said, I just think he did better overall coaching job last season than Steve Lavin. All in all, let's see what Cooley can do this year, after losing two critical pieces in Batts & Cotton. At the same time, provided we get Thomas, I would hope Lav can achieve better results than last year with this veteran team. Hopefully this is viewed as constructive discussion, not Lavin bashing.

IMHO no need for your last sentence disclaimer. Never felt you have bashed anyone. But I understand your sensitivity in not wanting to be harangued by the defenders of the shield.

Exactly.

Those who constantly toe the line but then jump in for the rescue when Lavin's name may be sullied.

Since when is a head coach above criticism? It would be a first in sports.

Seems the fanbase has cheered more for talks of hopes and promises than results over the past 3 years.

A flame/bait post by bamafan.

Besides, no one ever said a coach is above criticism. A straw man. Lavin deserved to be criticize this past season. Some of these posts goes above and beyond criticism. Caustic-like tone and people going out of their way to mention the coach in a thread. There have also been posts that came off like it was personal. Why derail every, single thread with bashing of the coach? It becomes boring and tedious at some point. Some people do wanna talk about basketball, and not have to come and see thread after thread roasting the coach. The horse is dead.

A forum is no different than social media, sports talk radio, etc.

Fans are free to discuss what they want. If someone doesn't like it, what is stopping them from ignoring it other than jumping in to defend their beloved coach?

The horse is dead means what? Stop talking about him negatively?

The people do come here to discuss basketball. What can be discussed if there's no clear strategy, no clear gameplan, no clear cohesiveness of the team?

I don't remember people bashing the coaching in the Harkless/Nurideen year and we were losing. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall it.

The people got mad when there was no excuses and promises were made, players were hyped but nothing was lived up to.

A message board isn't particularly what you think it is. You're looking for a blog, which is different than a message board.

You don't know the difference between defending the coach versus defending foolishness. Like I told a couple of others, who I occasionally converse with outside of the board.... It's not necessarily or always about defending the coach. It's about squashing thing put out that is opinionated that is being conveyed as facts, as well, as speaking up for tedious and boring talk that takes away from a board.

So, you don't remember posters going ballistic when we were losing during Lindsey's and Harkless' time at St. John's? Get real! Go dig through some threads from that time. Plenty of whining going on.

So, you were expecting something, and it didn't happen, so you decide to whine and complain at every, single turn, huh? Why place your hostility on someone else? You should place some blame on yourself, if you're constantly upset on something that didn't happen because you were told it would happen. Show some responsibility and just be mad because you didn't like how the season went, instead on blaming your hostility on what you were told how it would go. That sounds like a child.

The hostility is coming from your end.

I'm straight. B)

95% of this post was just emotional responses from you.

If you want to talk basketball, we can. If not, I'll gladly move on.

Since when is people talking back and forth a blog? A blog is one person. This is a conversation.

And the complaints during the Nuri year was about Nuri's selfishness and lack of an outside shot, not the coaching.

That team had an identity. Everyone knew when they played SJU they were going to face the matchup zone and the players were going to hustle until the final whistle.

What is our identity today? Ask the fanbase who the go-to player is on the team and you'll get 2 different responses.

Like I said, you can stay in your feelings and try to muzzle everyone's gripes with the state of our basketball programs and continue with name calling and baiting people into arguments.

Or you can discuss basketball like you claim you want to...

No hostility on my end. Just speaking based on my observation and what you stated in your previous post. Not to mention, I think you mainly post on emotion, as I've stated a few other times.

If you think all of the complaints where based on Lindsey, then you're wrong. First of all, Lindsey was gone before Christmas of that season. There were quite a bit of complaining well into conference play. Go and look back and threads and posts from that season. Those same threads and posts are still on the board.

You can say what whatever you like about me, man. It's all to the good. I only come out when foolishness is constantly being posted. I'm sure you know all about it, as you tend to post your share.

A good, try, but lame attempt at the end.

LAME POSTS? YOU are the last person to lecture anyone about their posts... You do know how to spell moron , mostly because you are one. Who ANNOINTED you to judge other people's posts? YOU ARE THE TEDIOUS, BORING ONE1 LOOK IN THE MIRROR.