@Providence, Tue., Feb. 13, 7p, CBSSN

It's odd - sometimes players do really well on one team and not as well when they go someplace else. Then there are players who don't do so well where they are but blossom when they go elsewhere.

It's almost as though the system a player lands in and their utilization in that system impacts their production.

Very strange.
 
lawmanfan said:
It's odd - sometimes players do really well on one team and not as well when they go someplace else. Then there are players who don't do so well where they are but blossom when they go elsewhere.

It's almost as though the system a player lands in and their utilization in that system impacts their production.

Very strange.
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whats even stranger to me is not holding a high major D1 basketball player accountable for missing wide open jump shots consistently

Maybe I am taking crazy pills, but the two big jumpers Alleyne got in the second half against Providence would have been great shots on Virginia Tech and great shots on UConn too
 
Jack Williams said:
whats even stranger to me is not holding a high major D1 basketball player accountable for missing wide open jump shots consistently

Maybe I am taking crazy pills, but the two big jumpers Alleyne got in the second half against Providence would have been great shots on Virginia Tech and great shots on UConn too
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If you look at alleyne's stats, while his minutes are down, his offensive production is about the same as at VT: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nahiem-alleyne-1.html This year he has an effective FG % of 49%. At VT, his eFG was 49%, 49%, and 48%. He's oddly consistent.
 
Hardy said:
If you look at alleyne's stats, while his minutes are down, his offensive production is about the same as at VT: https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/nahiem-alleyne-1.html This year he has an effective FG % of 49%. At VT, his eFG was 49%, 49%, and 48%. He's oddly consistent.
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my thing is more the timing of these misses. Because I know Marillac's overall point when he brings up Alleyne's past numbers, is to ultimately blame Jenkins for it. He wants the team to go to Alleyne in key spots of games instead of Jenkins.

What I am trying to say, is basketball isn't just played on a spreadsheet, at some point Alleyne needs to knock down a shot at a moment in a game that makes our staff go "yea get him more shots". Him and Dingle both have had some kind of innate sense to miss every single big shot they have taken this year. Every momentum shifting shot, every shot that could cap off a run, every shot that could end an opponents run. They miss seemingly every time.

We all watch these games, just feel it out in these close ones, do Dingle and Alleyne ever seem poised or ready to take a step forward? I know I am harping on the Providence game cause its fresh in my mind but both of them took big shots in that second half and they were mostly not even close. They inspire no confidence whatsoever and at some point to me that isn't on Jenkins or a system, its about manning up and hitting a shot. The Alleyne refusal to shoot an easy bunny late against I think Creighton earlier this year also sticks out in my mind. Just plays where these guys get their opportunities and shrink.
 
Jack Williams said:
Haha my one question I need Marillac to answer, how many more wide open shots does Alleyne need to miss for us before we can officially retire the Alleyne Virginia Tech shooting numbers from these conversations
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The only comment I would add is that to my eye , Alleyne still looks like he is playing hobbled from that Ankle injury .

He doesn’t have the quickness he had before that and isn’t getting the lift on his shot that he also had .

Demeaning his Va Tech numbers serves no purpose . Those were his stats in the ACC . Playing against Duke, NC , Virginia , Miami , etc

We all acknowledge he doesn’t have a great handle and why he has served mostly as a first or 2 nd guy off the Bench . When healthy he is a determined and effective defensive player .

I just don’t think he’s anywhere near 100 percent .currently .
 
L J S A said:
Slyfoxx would bench Iverson if he was coaching him. 😁
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But , only because he missed practice .

You know , “ We are talking about Practice , Practice?”

Bringing Iverson into the conversation is silly or worse .

We are talking about Jones and Dingle , not Curry , Iverson . Hardly a equal measurement .
 
Jack Williams said:
whats even stranger to me is not holding a high major D1 basketball player accountable for missing wide open jump shots consistently

Maybe I am taking crazy pills, but the two big jumpers Alleyne got in the second half against Providence would have been great shots on Virginia Tech and great shots on UConn too
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It wasn't an Alleyne-specific post.

IMHO Alleyne is exactly who he has always been - very good defender, unselfish with the ball, will grab some rebounds, wildly inconsistent offensively.

The thing with him has always been that there is no rhyme or reason to why he hits or misses. Some guys you can figure it out - they miss when their feet aren't set or they rush the shot or whatever their particular thing is. With Alleyne his makes and misses are not form or situation dependent, they're just random. And he's always been that way.

So basically - my comment had absolutely nothing to do with Alleyne, he is the same inconsistent scorer he has been at his two prior stops. Great kid, good defender, cannot be depended on for offense. When it shows up great, but you can't assume it will at any given time.

[Edit: s/o to Hardy who (after I posted) I see had already posted statistical proof of my observation.]
 
Jack Williams said:
Haha my one question I need Marillac to answer, how many more wide open shots does Alleyne need to miss for us before we can officially retire the Alleyne Virginia Tech shooting numbers from these conversations
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Alleyne is the only proven player on this roster. If he’s not making shots, the variables that have changed are the players and style of play. He is a PG-dependent player. Nobody else has played big minutes for a good high major.

Every single team in the country would take him and play him in their top 7 players.
 
Alleyne is shooting better this year than last. lol.

With greater roles comes greater accountability and scrutiny. That's why people aren't emphasizing his struggles as much as Jenkins or Dingle.
 
Marillac2 said:
Alleyne is the only proven player on this roster. If he’s not making shots, the variables that have changed are the players and style of play. He is a PG-dependent player. Nobody else has played big minutes for a good high major.

Every single team in the country would take him and play him in their top 7 players.
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moneyball.png

Marillac: "Rick... let me introduce you to Naheim Alleyne. Outstanding 3pt% for Virginia Tech. Rotation piece for a national championship winner in UConn... his one defect...."

Rick: "Marillac?"

Marillac: "h-his one defect.."

Rick: "Say it Marillac"

Marillac: "He will never make an open jumper in a St. John's uniform"

Rick: "Goddammit Marillac... Fine... sign me up, we don't need him to hit a jumper, we have Daniss"

Marillac: "Coach are you sure thats such a goo-"

Rick: "Get the hell out Marillac you've done enough"
 
dk423 said:
Alleyne is shooting better this year than last. lol.

With greater roles comes greater accountability and scrutiny. That's why people aren't emphasizing his struggles as much as Jenkins or Dingle.
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UConn last year was an exponentially better version of what we are. Jenkins is the wish.com version of Newton. They had no PG but built that up in the aggregate mostly due to how versatile Jackson was at the 3.

Alleyne was horribly advised. He needed to go to Tennessee or some place with a drive and kick PG. All of his Va Tech highlights come off penetration. He’s a 3 and D guy like Jack Williams at the bar on ladies night.
 
Marillac2 said:
Alleyne is the only proven player on this roster. If he’s not making shots, the variables that have changed are the players and style of play. He is a PG-dependent player. Nobody else has played big minutes for a good high major.

Every single team in the country would take him and play him in their top 7 players.
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Let me repeat . In my opinion Alleyne is currently still playing less than 100 percent . I mentioned that previously .

A hurt player is affected by his injury no matter how hard he tries to overcome it . Play through is the popular term.

As for that posters comparisons of Jenkins and Dingle last year stats , it’s gone off the rails again .
Claims the Ivy League is much better than the MAAC . Ok , so what ?

The bottom line here is that Jenkins playing in the BE this year is a much better player than Dingle for whatever reason .

We all hoped Dingle was going to be special here and flourish under RP . It’s not happened and it’s not meant to demean him but , nearly everyone who knows BB or writes about it , has commented on how disappointed everyone is on his performance .

I’m sure Jordan isn’t happy either as it has seriously affected his standing , certainly for any NBA chances he might have had but , also any other Pro League .

Jenkins , on the other hand might not make the NBA but , he will earn a very good living playing Pro Ball in a high quality foreign league .

Right now , it’s a unfair comparison to equate Dingle with Jenkins . Jenkins will make one of the BE post season Honors at some level . Dingle will not .

And , he was counted on to provide at least 15-18 points a game regularly this year . He’s at 10 points a game now , barely . It’s made a big difference in many of our close losses that he hasn’t delivered those points . 5 more points a game from him , might have turned several of those losses into Wins .
 
Jack Williams is right on with his posts, you can quote stats all you want, give all the reasons you want, but in the end trust the eye test.
Systems don’t have anything to do when a player gets the opportunity to make plays and said player consistently fails to do so. Just common sense. We have lost so many close games because we have one and only one player willing and able to make winning plays when the money is on the line.
And the idea that other players inability to make plays is his fault is just absurdly ridiculous.
 
logen said:
Jack Williams is right on with his posts, you can quote stats all you want, give all the reasons you want, but in the end trust the eye test.
Systems don’t have anything to do when a player gets the opportunity to make plays and said player consistently fails to do so. Just common sense. We have lost so many close games because we have one and only one player willing and able to make winning plays when the money is on the line.
And the idea that other players inability to make plays is his fault is just absurdly ridiculous.
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If he is “able” to make them why is he 0 for the season? Twice at Creighton the last two possessions he missed down 1, he missed the game winner against Marquette, and he just airballed the game-tying shot on the last possession at Providence.

He also missed a three at Xavier at the end down two and followed that up bet letting up 2 treys and missing a rebound to out the game out of reach.

Oh, and he hasn’t stopped a single guard all year on defense. I love how we just top-toe past that little detail.

At this point I guess just let him keep taking them? He has to hit one you’d think. Nobody can be that bad.
 
SLYFOXX1968 said:
The only comment I would add is that to my eye , Alleyne still looks like he is playing hobbled from that Ankle injury .

He doesn’t have the quickness he had before that and isn’t getting the lift on his shot that he also had .

Demeaning his Va Tech numbers serves no purpose . Those were his stats in the ACC . Playing against Duke, NC , Virginia , Miami , etc

We all acknowledge he doesn’t have a great handle and why he has served mostly as a first or 2 nd guy off the Bench . When healthy he is a determined and effective defensive player .

I just don’t think he’s anywhere near 100 percent .currently .
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Definitely agree about Alleyne's ankle injury. It was obvious to me that he was limping noticeably during the UCONN game at MSG. Originally RP said it was a "major injury" and he would be out for a significant amount of time but then he's back in a week. I give him credit for playing but the ankle has limited his effectiveness.
 
Marillac2 said:
If he is “able” to make them why is he 0 for the season? Twice at Creighton the last two possessions he missed down 1, he missed the game winner against Marquette, and he just airballed the game-tying shot on the last possession at Providence.

He also missed a three at Xavier at the end down two and followed that up bet letting up 2 treys and missing a rebound to out the game out of reach.

Oh, and he hasn’t stopped a single guard all year on defense. I love how we just top-toe past that little detail.

At this point I guess just let him keep taking them? He has to hit one you’d think. Nobody can be that bad.
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Gee , have you thought about your Ivy League POY barely averaging 10 points a game and falling far short of the 15-18 we were hoping he would deliver . If he was scoring 15 a game we might have won some of those close games .
If he had averaged 18 a game , we might have won

them all .

It’s all what if but , so is your vendetta against our best player , Jenkins .

By the way , Dingle can’t cover any BE Guard of any ability . Too slow .
Sorry to say . Much to our Coaches and fans regret .
 
SLYFOXX1968 said:
Gee , have you thought about your Ivy League POY barely averaging 10 points a game and falling far short of the 15-18 we were hoping he would deliver . If he was scoring 15 a game we might have won some of those close games .
If he had averaged 18 a game , we might have won

them all .

It’s all what if but , so is your vendetta against our best player , Jenkins .

By the way , Dingle can’t cover any BE Guard of any ability . Too slow .
Sorry to say . Much to our Coaches and fans regret .
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You are fixated on Dingle. He’s not my guy. I don’t know if he’ll work —and doubt he will — but I know Jenkins doesn’t. Dingle and Alleyne at least have chemistry and move the ball.

I’d literally rather have Zuby play the one.

And Dingle, who is a terrible defender — as I noted prior to the season — actually played much better defense than Jenkins last game. That’s very sad.

Neither of them could cover a micropenis with a king size blanket.
 
lawmanfan said:
It's odd - sometimes players do really well on one team and not as well when they go someplace else. Then there are players who don't do so well where they are but blossom when they go elsewhere.

It's almost as though the system a player lands in and their utilization in that system impacts their production.

Very strange.
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Here's a clue.......if the system you go to makes you one of the top two scoring options, it will impact your production (ppg).
David Jones and AJ Storr fit that definition.
Posh Alexander, Wusu and Stanley are exactly the same players they always were but they play more important roles on their current teams than they would have at St. John's.

The bottom line is that two of the three players Pitino built this team around have not played up to expectations. Everyone knows who they are.
Neither of the freshmen were expected to play major roles but a key transfer, and the best of the group, has been slowed by injuries. These are the major reasons we have lost three more games than projected to date.
Eighteen wins and unhappy Ken's here would be singing a different tune.
 
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