Providence, Thur. Dec. 28, 7p, YES, 570AM
- Thread starter Knight
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Class of 72
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First the good: competitive 1st half. Bullock called for 2 fouls early in the game. We were down only 1 point at the half.
The bad: Cooley made adjustments in the 2nd half to open up his offense after seeing us play Ole' perimeter defense. Most of their treys were open shots. Providence will not shoot 54% from 3 the rest of the season.
Ponds played injured in the 2nd half. Mullin needed to pull him earlier and make adjustments but he has little options on the bench. Trimble is too slow and Bashir should have moved to the two spot. Instead, with 9 minutes left Mullin pulled Ponds and Bashir along with Owens and game over. Mullin looked clueless in this loss getting more red faced as Providence was raining open threes. Providence went deep into their bench while we went to Alibegovic. That tells you why this could never be an NCAA Tourney team. Finally, our offense is so undisciplined that players resort to freelancing many plays. If both Ponds and Lovett have to play injured the season will be basically be over. As some have said it would take only one injury to become an average team. Two injuries and Mullin will have 3 straight losing seasons. Pray Ponds is OK. Pray Lovett heals in another week because with Alibegovic, Yakwe and Trimble there are no points coming from our bench and our tired tiny wonder 5 just will be too worn down the final 10 minutes of most Big East games.
The bad: Cooley made adjustments in the 2nd half to open up his offense after seeing us play Ole' perimeter defense. Most of their treys were open shots. Providence will not shoot 54% from 3 the rest of the season.
Ponds played injured in the 2nd half. Mullin needed to pull him earlier and make adjustments but he has little options on the bench. Trimble is too slow and Bashir should have moved to the two spot. Instead, with 9 minutes left Mullin pulled Ponds and Bashir along with Owens and game over. Mullin looked clueless in this loss getting more red faced as Providence was raining open threes. Providence went deep into their bench while we went to Alibegovic. That tells you why this could never be an NCAA Tourney team. Finally, our offense is so undisciplined that players resort to freelancing many plays. If both Ponds and Lovett have to play injured the season will be basically be over. As some have said it would take only one injury to become an average team. Two injuries and Mullin will have 3 straight losing seasons. Pray Ponds is OK. Pray Lovett heals in another week because with Alibegovic, Yakwe and Trimble there are no points coming from our bench and our tired tiny wonder 5 just will be too worn down the final 10 minutes of most Big East games.
Brutal start to conference play. Team played soft and looked unprepared. Providence got what they wanted at will. I put this on the Mullin & staff as much as the players ( Mullin did take responsibility in post game quotes).
For a sold out crowd it was a pretty weak crowd. Even when we were up it was a snooze fest.
For a sold out crowd it was a pretty weak crowd. Even when we were up it was a snooze fest.
boo haarvey
Active member
Zach Braziller
@NYPost_Brazille
Shamorie Ponds saw doctors after game, per source. Will undergo MRI, but doctors believe there is no structural damage. #sjubb
Terrible loss...very low energy...but the sky is not falling yet.
Couple of observations...
Thought they controlled most of first half but left Lindsay open too much
As has been said, Lindsay is a one trick pony and should never be left alone.
Ponds is a stud scoring machine and is very unselfish. But, his poor outside shooting starting to be a concern. With Lovette out, it is exposing us to against zones. Also, Mullin needs to speak to him regarding careless, nonchalant Melo-like plays. Seems like there are unforced errors every game.
Believe he hurt himself by being in between a dunk and a layup after a steal. That said, up until he got hurt he was doing his thing
Simon needs to be on foul line against zone. Nobody on Providence could have stopped him. They laid off him on perimeter which rendered him useless.
Couple of observations...
Thought they controlled most of first half but left Lindsay open too much
As has been said, Lindsay is a one trick pony and should never be left alone.
Ponds is a stud scoring machine and is very unselfish. But, his poor outside shooting starting to be a concern. With Lovette out, it is exposing us to against zones. Also, Mullin needs to speak to him regarding careless, nonchalant Melo-like plays. Seems like there are unforced errors every game.
Believe he hurt himself by being in between a dunk and a layup after a steal. That said, up until he got hurt he was doing his thing
Simon needs to be on foul line against zone. Nobody on Providence could have stopped him. They laid off him on perimeter which rendered him useless.
boo haarvey
Active member
Of course LoVett doesn’t have structural damage and he’s been out a month. At the outset of the season, most of agreed that the only chance of success was for us to remain injury free. It now appears that our top two players may both be out for extended periods.
Can’t believe it was just a few days ago that I was celebrating the J’Raan Brooks signing with the belief that both Ponds and LoVett would be healthy and playing tonight.
Always seems to be one step forward and two steps back with this program.
Can’t believe it was just a few days ago that I was celebrating the J’Raan Brooks signing with the belief that both Ponds and LoVett would be healthy and playing tonight.
Always seems to be one step forward and two steps back with this program.
I was at an event which prevented me from watching or listening to the game. I did google the score and saw STJohn's was down by 1 or 2 at the half but now I see that the wheels seemingly went off the second half.
I would appreciate if someone would explain what went wrong. Did Ponds get injured? if so, at what point in the game? if so, does the injury look serious?
Thanks.
I would appreciate if someone would explain what went wrong. Did Ponds get injured? if so, at what point in the game? if so, does the injury look serious?
Thanks.
boo haarvey
Active member
Check out the chain below. It sums it up pretty well.
Ponds apparently hurt his knee with about six minutes to go in the first half when he landed awkwardly after converting a layup.
I didn’t notice the injury and apparently neither did Mullin. Ponds was gimpy to start the second half, but didn’t come out until we were down 18 at the nine minute mark at which point he was noticeably limping. He sat on the bench the rest of the game with a wrap around his leg.
Providence was lights out in the second half and Cartwright was unstoppable. I’d attribute the wheels falling off in the second half to a combination of poor defense, Ponds being injured, and Providence playing out of their minds.
JackofVirginia
Active member
So much for our improved defense. Totally outclassed tonight. Tonight's three point defense reminded me of Mullin's first two years. Instead of being in Carthwright, Lindsey and Diallo's jock strap we left them open to help in the middle. Duh!
Wasn't impressed either with our offensive sets in the second half.
Wasn't impressed either with our offensive sets in the second half.
Dan V
Well-known member
Damn is the season over after today? It's one game and arguably our best all around guard was out and our best scorer got hurt before halftime. In my mind we just need to go 9-9 in the conference and we will get in. Great thing about the Big East is there are plenty of chances for good wins and not a lot of bad teams either. It's not embarrassing to lose to Providence they are a good team.
We were hurt thats what happens when your best players are out you lose 9 times out of 10. Relax Jeez. Still have plenty of time left. LoVett will be back soon, I bet he won't miss more than 2 more games. We can win some games with LoVett holding it down if Ponds has to miss a few games. As long as we can get them both back by the G'town game we will definitely have a chance.
Seton Hall on the road is probably a loss even at full strength. Ditto for the Creighton game. That's 0-3. LoVett should be good by the Depaul game, that's a W even if Ponds is still out. Hopefully Ponds will be ok by the Georgetown game, if not we should still beat them at home with LoVett.
Ponds injury doesn't seem that serious if we can be at full force by the Villanova game we should be good. Even if we lose at 2-4 we should still be in the hunt. Xavier is really good but they have shown that they can be vulnerable to the upset this season. We are better than Depaul and Georgetown. We matchup well with Marquette. We beat Butler last year when we had a worse team and they had a better one and a better coach than they do this year. Also we get another shot at PC hopefully at full strength. Sorry for the long post, but this season is far from over just you guys wait and see.
We were hurt thats what happens when your best players are out you lose 9 times out of 10. Relax Jeez. Still have plenty of time left. LoVett will be back soon, I bet he won't miss more than 2 more games. We can win some games with LoVett holding it down if Ponds has to miss a few games. As long as we can get them both back by the G'town game we will definitely have a chance.
Seton Hall on the road is probably a loss even at full strength. Ditto for the Creighton game. That's 0-3. LoVett should be good by the Depaul game, that's a W even if Ponds is still out. Hopefully Ponds will be ok by the Georgetown game, if not we should still beat them at home with LoVett.
Ponds injury doesn't seem that serious if we can be at full force by the Villanova game we should be good. Even if we lose at 2-4 we should still be in the hunt. Xavier is really good but they have shown that they can be vulnerable to the upset this season. We are better than Depaul and Georgetown. We matchup well with Marquette. We beat Butler last year when we had a worse team and they had a better one and a better coach than they do this year. Also we get another shot at PC hopefully at full strength. Sorry for the long post, but this season is far from over just you guys wait and see.
JackofVirginia
Active member
All opening Big East games have been closely competitive with the exception of the Villanova - DePaul and our game tonight. Oh,oh!
beast of the east
Active member
It's so easy to react in typical fashion, as in the sky is falling.
We got torched in the second half from 3, so badly as to undo any notion that this team plays D.
The wheels fell off, plain and simple in the second half.
Better to focus on the great crowd, a sellout. Even the student sections were 80% filled BETWEEN SEMESTERS.
It's just one game. It's just one game. Ok, it is just one game. No need to worry, right?
We got torched in the second half from 3, so badly as to undo any notion that this team plays D.
The wheels fell off, plain and simple in the second half.
Better to focus on the great crowd, a sellout. Even the student sections were 80% filled BETWEEN SEMESTERS.
It's just one game. It's just one game. Ok, it is just one game. No need to worry, right?
I was impressed with the defensive effort/results during the OOC, expected a regression during conference play seeing better teams almost every game, and don't think SJU is as bad defensively or Providence as good offensively as either showed in the 2nd half.
But what is still concerning is the lack of any material adjustment over what is now a significant sample size of this season. I noted after the Missouri game:
"To that end there has to be more in-game adjustment, both ends, but especially defensively starting with the coaching staff. How many times would Mizzou have had to soft drive to draw a perimeter defender and pitch to a wide open shooter before we stayed home on the 3 line? We are not going to see too many backcourts the rest of the way less athletic than Mizzou's, and we played right into their hands instead of daring them to attack the rim against our athletes. That was a winnable game, and after opening the 2nd half 22-8 to get it to 58-50, Mizzou went 40-24 over the last 11:54. You can't let teams score 40 points in 11:54 let alone to close the game, and it wasn't effort it just wasn't playing smart."
Highlighting that here only because it's basically the same observation from last night. And not too far from Iona and St. Joe's - both teams got a lot of good looks from 3, they just didn't make enough of them.
I think it's unlikely that this team is going to be able to play the extreme form of help defense that they are playing and have sustained success against the particular teams in the Big East this year. Too many teams that are between capable and excellent 3pt shooting teams. Nova, Providence, and Marquette are all elite shooting over 40% as a team from 3 (!), Xavier and Creighton both very good in the high 30s, and SHU and Georgetown respectable at 35% or better. The 3 is such a focal point of so many offenses today, that to give teams that are already making ~8-12 3s per game as many good looks from 3 as we are giving them is not likely a recipe for success.
If i'm an opposing coach scouting SJU right now I feel like I can get them to do exactly what I want them to defensively. Providence puts Jalen Lindsey in the P&R with the primary objective of getting a hedge/double on the ball so that Lindsey can release and get a 3 from a 50% shooter from 3. So SJU spends most of the night defending the P&R with a hedge/double on the ball so that Lindsey can release and get a 3 from a 50% shooter from 3. I don't think Cooley could have drawn it up much better in terms of what he wanted from SJU defensively last night.
That the coaching staff didn't even attempt to go zone - if for no other reason, just to mix it up and try to break Providence's rhythm, given there was basically no downside as it couldn't go much worse than it was going in man - is also confusing if not concerning.
The great thing about the UCF, Grand Canyon, Iona, and St. Joe's games is that they were wins in games that felt like they would have been losses in prior years. The bad thing about those games is when SJU plays similarly against much better teams you get last night's result.
While the defensive effort is much improved and will likely create enough chaos to disrupt teams for stretches, the strategy is fundamentally flawed IMO especially against the teams in this conference. It doesn't matter whether Providence will or won't shoot that well from 3 the rest of the season. Think enough teams will shoot well enough against our current defensive approach to prevent SJU from getting to a conference win total they are looking for.
But what is still concerning is the lack of any material adjustment over what is now a significant sample size of this season. I noted after the Missouri game:
"To that end there has to be more in-game adjustment, both ends, but especially defensively starting with the coaching staff. How many times would Mizzou have had to soft drive to draw a perimeter defender and pitch to a wide open shooter before we stayed home on the 3 line? We are not going to see too many backcourts the rest of the way less athletic than Mizzou's, and we played right into their hands instead of daring them to attack the rim against our athletes. That was a winnable game, and after opening the 2nd half 22-8 to get it to 58-50, Mizzou went 40-24 over the last 11:54. You can't let teams score 40 points in 11:54 let alone to close the game, and it wasn't effort it just wasn't playing smart."
Highlighting that here only because it's basically the same observation from last night. And not too far from Iona and St. Joe's - both teams got a lot of good looks from 3, they just didn't make enough of them.
I think it's unlikely that this team is going to be able to play the extreme form of help defense that they are playing and have sustained success against the particular teams in the Big East this year. Too many teams that are between capable and excellent 3pt shooting teams. Nova, Providence, and Marquette are all elite shooting over 40% as a team from 3 (!), Xavier and Creighton both very good in the high 30s, and SHU and Georgetown respectable at 35% or better. The 3 is such a focal point of so many offenses today, that to give teams that are already making ~8-12 3s per game as many good looks from 3 as we are giving them is not likely a recipe for success.
If i'm an opposing coach scouting SJU right now I feel like I can get them to do exactly what I want them to defensively. Providence puts Jalen Lindsey in the P&R with the primary objective of getting a hedge/double on the ball so that Lindsey can release and get a 3 from a 50% shooter from 3. So SJU spends most of the night defending the P&R with a hedge/double on the ball so that Lindsey can release and get a 3 from a 50% shooter from 3. I don't think Cooley could have drawn it up much better in terms of what he wanted from SJU defensively last night.
That the coaching staff didn't even attempt to go zone - if for no other reason, just to mix it up and try to break Providence's rhythm, given there was basically no downside as it couldn't go much worse than it was going in man - is also confusing if not concerning.
The great thing about the UCF, Grand Canyon, Iona, and St. Joe's games is that they were wins in games that felt like they would have been losses in prior years. The bad thing about those games is when SJU plays similarly against much better teams you get last night's result.
While the defensive effort is much improved and will likely create enough chaos to disrupt teams for stretches, the strategy is fundamentally flawed IMO especially against the teams in this conference. It doesn't matter whether Providence will or won't shoot that well from 3 the rest of the season. Think enough teams will shoot well enough against our current defensive approach to prevent SJU from getting to a conference win total they are looking for.
That sounds good however, if this is the way we will play we can have a yr like yr 1 As i said before the game we have to hit our 3s went 0-10 second 1/2 they iived in the paint even though we have a 6-11 kid
It does not look good for us saw SH can not see us beating them Perhaps we are not as talented as we thought only clark had decent stats how could a whole team do so poorly Hard to think no one had a good game That means we were just downright overpowered and than not having the talent to make adjustments from what I read they were scoring at will hitting everything This is a backward step for the team. Starting to get disenchanted with coach
Can not blame Ponds injury seems like their guard were eating him for breakfast Looks like for us to win we are going to have to be near perfect Just a sad opening to get manhandled like that If we had to lose make a good game of it stay with in 5 pts
THE STUDENTS game out but how will we keep their support when we put out a product like this opening day