(POST-GAME) @Indiana, Wed., Nov. 17, 9p, FS-1

[SJU61982]

I understand the refs blew some calls. I could live with the Mathis call. It looked ugly and resulted in an injury. I get the feeling Mathis is going to drive a lot of us nuts this season. Some great athletic plays followed by some ill-advised 3s and reckless drives on offense and gambles on defense. In the end, we still went to the line a lot and had the game in our hands in the last possession. Home town refereeing is part of the game. Have to overcome it on the road. I liked when one of the tv guys pointed out that Smith got fouled 3 times on one pay without getting a call.

For playing his first road game in a super hostile environment, I thought Pinzon was excellent. Yes, a bit out of control. But so was Posh. Pinzon has major upside, as does Stanley. If each had a college season under their belt, maybe we are a top 20 team. Unfortunately, our best player will be gone just when they have that year of experience.

 

There's a limit to hometown calls though.

The most egregious was actually when they stopped played after Julian's layup, because he got poked in the eye.  It was called in the classic "and 1" style, but they didn't call a foul.  They only stopped it so Julian could be attended to.

Which brings up the question:  How'd he poked in the eye in the first place?  Did the magic "poke-you-in-the-eye fairy" lay one on him?  Or was he poked by accident, by the Indiana defender?  If it's the latter, than that's a foul, plain and simple.

If he was poked in the eye prior to that layup attempt (which is possible, I guess), then he made one heck of a shot, even if it was just a 2 foot layup.

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

It was noticeable in the first half especially that Posh was slipping frequently as he went into the Paint .  Just my observation but , many of the Home Courts in College BB get some sort of treatment before the Season and , quite possibly during the Season too .  I doubt they are shellacked like a Bowling Alley but , who knows . The Floor at MSG is always slippery as hell , As if the Rangers left ice cubes all over .                       My point is this and just speculation but , if your Players are sliding all over the Place , maybe they need to look at the traction their Sneakers are delivering .   It just seemed to me that Posh had some trouble during the game with his footing .  Not something that normally he has trouble with . Just a observation . 

 

[Sherman Sheridan & Grant]

In New Orleans
didn’t see game
caught 1/2 time score 
thrilled when
i checked later in the night at our comeback.
imo 
team
shows a lot of promise - 
and as has been noted - with our new President, AD and HC )”( and  patient fans lol ) we are rolling in the correct direction.
all the best.
 

 

[IDRAFT]

I haven't re-watched the game yet but wasn't Pinzon primarily playing point with Posh off the ball the last five minutes of the game and for most of the stretches that they were both on the floor? Not really tossing myself into the last play debate but I didn't read any questions to CMA about why Pinzon was the primary point in the second half nor the last play itself. 

Both surprised me, but CMA had more information than me (for instance was Posh playing at less than full strength or not) and SJU does not get the type of media coverage where we often get the answers. 

 

[BOB BARKER]

OUCH!!!    SHOULD HAVE SCHEDULED A ROAD GAME BEFORE THIS ONE.. MAYBE AT IONA..

 

[MarkRedman]

The loss was certainly disappointing to all of us but we have an almost brand new team with 9 new guys playing their first "legit" opponent in our first road game of the season in an historic arena jammed filled with fans rooting loudly against them.

Champ was outstanding but was the only guy who really played up to his ability. Smith had an excellent second half but I was really disappointed with the play of Soriano and Wheeler. Soriano just wasn't tough enough to bang inside and Wheeler played almost exclusively on the outside and was a real liability whenever he handled the ball.

Pinzon played extremely well in the first half. In fact, the color commentator said that he was St John's MVP in the first half. Yet, he didn't get into the game in the second half until there was 10:04 left in the game. I am a real proponent of playing the hot hand. If a guy is in the groove, give him more burn. I would have liked to have see Pinzon play more in the second half.

As many have said, we don't want moral victories. This loss hurt. But, I saw enough positives to really believe that we will be fine and will do well in Big East play. The NCAA's are a very realistic target and I fully expect us to be there in March.

 

[ras]

Jackson-Davis was the most talented player on the floor last night , and while I admire letting guys take shots at defending him, we should collapsed on him early, he rattled Soriano early and got in his head. Why Woodson didn’t keep feeding him in the paint in the second half was surprising. If IU hits free throws in the first half it’s a 20 point halftime deficit. Posh was non existent in the first half and I applaud him for his effort in the second half. Pinzon is moving too fast for his brain and if IU picked him up early on D up the court may have posed more problems, but he’s not afraid to shoot on the road, which was nice to see. Mathis got a flagrant 2 instead of a 1 because of the damage done, not the intent, it was a sick thud on the floor. JC let the game come to him, but almost waited too long, he was frustrated in the 1st half and I watched him come out for the 2nd half a lot more relaxed. Anderson really does get after the boys when they make mistakes, not a bad thing to see with this roster. We had a shot to win on the road in a hostile arena against a fan base that expects to win and rode the officials all night. Both teams will have work to do to get in the dance, and while I like the mentality that we can beat Kansas, they are way better than the teams on the floor last night.——-

I agree w what you said, except IMO both are tourney teams and have AA candidates  and as you said we held our own in a hostile environment against very good competitions. I also think JC played great .I don’t feel to bad about the loss, it showed we could play w the big boys and it’s only 1 early season .game. Regarding our schedule, we have many opportunities to take care of business w the big East opponents. 
Pinzon looks like he’s going to be a good backup for posh and our future pg. Long arms and aggressive and will only get better. 
Im worried about the Josh Robert’s syndrome, bigs that look great with cupcakes , but can’t hold there own w high major competition.  Indiana has an all American big, so last night was skewed. Let’s hope Soriano and Wheeler can hold there own w BE centers. Other circumstances messed us up IE Mathis  ejection and the point swing that resulted w the technicals and Posh foul trouble.
I thought Coburn would get more time, think he’s a good shooter, but Smith looked good.
Read the first half of the game thread and you will feel pretty good about the game.
Onto the next FDU. 

 

 

[IDRAFT]

I didn't post anything about the new guys on purpose after the first three semi-scrimmages and waited for after this game. But also, this is one game, so all thoughts are typed in pencil, not a sharpie.

Soriano - Not Lamont Hamilton. Not Toro. We've had worse.
Stanley - There's a lot to like. Hopefully he is not being developed for his next team as he will only help so much this year. Hard to play him with Soriano, probably not with Wheeler either.
Coburn - Clearly could have been All MAAC if he pursued his education at Marist. Hopefully last night was a bad night. Eraser in hand, and as I appreciate his overall story I want him to succeed at SJU on the court and the classroom.
Smith - All three games he looks a lot more comfortable with an old fashioned Mid-range shot. Last night he looked for just that more often and had his best offensive game against the most competition faced. Offense from him will be needed.
Pinzon - Real talent. How much he can help this year? I need to see more, I can't even make a preliminary call on that.
Wheeler - He's tall. He plays hard on defense. He belongs down low but wants to shoot threes. Honestly off of three games I've been more impressed with Stanley, and Wheeler is the Junior. Unless he shows more I wouldn't alienate Stanley to find him minutes.
Mathis - He doesn't allow anyone an uncontested layup. In both cupcake games he showed a lot in the pressure defense. Any time he takes a three I scream "No!" When he plays with Smith and Posh teams might be able to pack in the defense. He could do damage when SJU can stay out of a half court game.
Nyiwe - CMA used him perfectly last night. 
 

 

[Amaseinyourface]

I didn't post anything about the new guys on purpose after the first three semi-scrimmages and waited for after this game. But also, this is one game, so all thoughts are typed in pencil, not a sharpie.

Soriano - Not Lamont Hamilton. Not Toro. We've had worse.
Stanley - There's a lot to like. Hopefully he is not being developed for his next team as he will only help so much this year. Hard to play him with Soriano, probably not with Wheeler either.
Coburn - Clearly could have been All MAAC if he pursued his education at Marist. Hopefully last night was a bad night. Eraser in hand, and as I appreciate his overall story I want him to succeed at SJU on the court and the classroom.
Smith - All three games he looks a lot more comfortable with an old fashioned Mid-range shot. Last night he looked for just that more often and had his best offensive game against the most competition faced. Offense from him will be needed.
Pinzon - Real talent. How much he can help this year? I need to see more, I can't even make a preliminary call on that.
Wheeler - He's tall. He plays hard on defense. He belongs down low but wants to shoot threes. Honestly off of three games I've been more impressed with Stanley, and Wheeler is the Junior. Unless he shows more I wouldn't alienate Stanley to find him minutes.
Mathis - He doesn't allow anyone an uncontested layup. In both cupcake games he showed a lot in the pressure defense. Any time he takes a three I scream "No!" When he plays with Smith and Posh teams might be able to pack in the defense. He could do damage when SJU can stay out of a half court game.
Nyiwe - CMA used him perfectly last night. 

 

Great post. But put me in the Nyiwe isn’t useless camp. We went zone a few times last night. I think he can be a player in that. And as you point out, we don’t exactly have proven BE players ahead of him in the frontcourt.

 

[SJU61982]

I haven't re-watched the game yet but wasn't Pinzon primarily playing point with Posh off the ball the last five minutes of the game and for most of the stretches that they were both on the floor? Not really tossing myself into the last play debate but I didn't read any questions to CMA about why Pinzon was the primary point in the second half nor the last play itself. 

Both surprised me, but CMA had more information than me (for instance was Posh playing at less than full strength or not) and SJU does not get the type of media coverage where we often get the answers. 

Posh was in foul trouble all night.  He got called for at least 1 charge, maybe 2.  He was probably kept off the ball to keep him in the game.

 

[Ray Morgan]

I understand the refs blew some calls. I could live with the Mathis call. It looked ugly and resulted in an injury. I get the feeling Mathis is going to drive a lot of us nuts this season. Some great athletic plays followed by some ill-advised 3s and reckless drives on offense and gambles on defense. In the end, we still went to the line a lot and had the game in our hands in the last possession. Home town refereeing is part of the game. Have to overcome it on the road. I liked when one of the tv guys pointed out that Smith got fouled 3 times on one pay without getting a call.

For playing his first road game in a super hostile environment, I thought Pinzon was excellent. Yes, a bit out of control. But so was Posh. Pinzon has major upside, as does Stanley. If each had a college season under their belt, maybe we are a top 20 team. Unfortunately, our best player will be gone just when they have that year of experience.


 

There's a limit to hometown calls though.

The most egregious was actually when they stopped played after Julian's layup, because he got poked in the eye.  It was called in the classic "and 1" style, but they didn't call a foul.  They only stopped it so Julian could be attended to.

Which brings up the question:  How'd he poked in the eye in the first place?  Did the magic "poke-you-in-the-eye fairy" lay one on him?  Or was he poked by accident, by the Indiana defender?  If it's the latter, than that's a foul, plain and simple.

If he was poked in the eye prior to that layup attempt (which is possible, I guess), then he made one heck of a shot, even if it was just a 2 foot layup.

I thought the worst as when Stanley got hooked yet was given the foul and the bucket  counted. I turned the channel during the review and never heard the explanation.
 

 

[firestorm]

I understand the refs blew some calls. I could live with the Mathis call. It looked ugly and resulted in an injury. I get the feeling Mathis is going to drive a lot of us nuts this season. Some great athletic plays followed by some ill-advised 3s and reckless drives on offense and gambles on defense. In the end, we still went to the line a lot and had the game in our hands in the last possession. Home town refereeing is part of the game. Have to overcome it on the road. I liked when one of the tv guys pointed out that Smith got fouled 3 times on one pay without getting a call.

For playing his first road game in a super hostile environment, I thought Pinzon was excellent. Yes, a bit out of control. But so was Posh. Pinzon has major upside, as does Stanley. If each had a college season under their belt, maybe we are a top 20 team. Unfortunately, our best player will be gone just when they have that year of experience.



 

There's a limit to hometown calls though.

The most egregious was actually when they stopped played after Julian's layup, because he got poked in the eye.  It was called in the classic "and 1" style, but they didn't call a foul.  They only stopped it so Julian could be attended to.

Which brings up the question:  How'd he poked in the eye in the first place?  Did the magic "poke-you-in-the-eye fairy" lay one on him?  Or was he poked by accident, by the Indiana defender?  If it's the latter, than that's a foul, plain and simple.

If he was poked in the eye prior to that layup attempt (which is possible, I guess), then he made one heck of a shot, even if it was just a 2 foot layup.

I thought the worst as when Stanley got hooked yet was given the foul and the bucket  counted. I turned the channel during the review and never heard the explanation.

 

No explanation was offered...other than the refs blew the call.

 

[SJU61982]

I understand the refs blew some calls. I could live with the Mathis call. It looked ugly and resulted in an injury. I get the feeling Mathis is going to drive a lot of us nuts this season. Some great athletic plays followed by some ill-advised 3s and reckless drives on offense and gambles on defense. In the end, we still went to the line a lot and had the game in our hands in the last possession. Home town refereeing is part of the game. Have to overcome it on the road. I liked when one of the tv guys pointed out that Smith got fouled 3 times on one pay without getting a call.

For playing his first road game in a super hostile environment, I thought Pinzon was excellent. Yes, a bit out of control. But so was Posh. Pinzon has major upside, as does Stanley. If each had a college season under their belt, maybe we are a top 20 team. Unfortunately, our best player will be gone just when they have that year of experience.




 

There's a limit to hometown calls though.

The most egregious was actually when they stopped played after Julian's layup, because he got poked in the eye.  It was called in the classic "and 1" style, but they didn't call a foul.  They only stopped it so Julian could be attended to.

Which brings up the question:  How'd he poked in the eye in the first place?  Did the magic "poke-you-in-the-eye fairy" lay one on him?  Or was he poked by accident, by the Indiana defender?  If it's the latter, than that's a foul, plain and simple.

If he was poked in the eye prior to that layup attempt (which is possible, I guess), then he made one heck of a shot, even if it was just a 2 foot layup.

I thought the worst as when Stanley got hooked yet was given the foul and the bucket  counted. I turned the channel during the review and never heard the explanation.


 

No explanation was offered...other than the refs blew the call.

They went to the monitors on that, but only to confirm if the foul was on Stanley, or someone else (on the fouling team).  That's all they can do in that situation.  I can only imagine what their reactions must have been, looking at it on replay.

 

[monte]

Pinzon played well, but he should not have had the ball in his hands on that last play. No way, no how. Not when we have the best PG in the Big East on the court 

I love Posh, but he had 5 turnovers and had been slipping and sliding all night long and was expected to get the ball.  Pinzon had been protecting the ball well and making great decisions with the ball all night, I have no problem with coach trusting him in that situation.  Also, If you watch the last play IU was going to double team Posh as soon as he got it, that's how Pinzon was able to run across and get it the ball so easily.  If the hand-off to Julian would have been clean he would have got a much better shot off. 

Also, Julian had a fantastic game hard to criticize him, but he has to make a better decisions in that situation as well.  When he threw that 3 pointer up he literally had 4 guys all collapse on him, when there was still 2.3 seconds left.  He had Pinzon open for 3 in the corner, he had Wusu open at the top corner of the key for 3 and Posh was at a full sprint coming from the top of the key he could have got it and got an open mid-range shot.  

With all that said hindsight is 20/20.  Would have liked a cleaner look, but rarely do you see a super clean look when you have less than 10 seconds and you have to run the length of the court, and that's at the college and pro level.  I've seen the Lakers this year get worse last second shots.

I had made a comment a few plays earlier that I felt Pinzon was rushing things. When I  saw him bringing the ball up on that last play, I immediately had concerns. He needed to move quickly, but not rush. He rushed. Not his fault, he's a freshman and it's very early in the season. He not only made a bad pass, he got too close to Champ and Champ wasn't sure what he was going to do. You could see Champ was confused. Now, maybe Posh does the same thing, but we'll never know. What we do know is that we had a chance to tie or win the game, and the decision that CMA made to put the ball in Pinzon's hands prevented that from happening. Kinda made me feel like all those situations at the end of last season when Dunn had the ball in his hands. CMA has to do a better job of calling up plays at the end of games. This scenario(busted plays) has played out way too many times. 

He literally just coached his team back from 16 down against one of the toughest places to play in college basketball.

And what games you been watching where coaches are getting their players super good looks running the full length of court with less than 10 seconds?  I watch a lot of NBA and college basketball and in those situations most of the time it doesn't look good and the offense usually gets a bad shot off, unless it's just a complete breakdown by the defense.  In those situations, there is no magical play that gets you a good shot, usually it's a get the ball in-bounds, and it to your best player by any means and let them make a play, and that's what they did.

I watched the Lakers have a similar situation a couple weeks ago, where Westbrook (a 29% 3 point shooter) ran the length of the court and took a contested 3 pointer that was way off.  And the coach that drew that up won an NBA championship about a little over a year ago.

Don't misquote me to suit your agenda. I never said "super good looks". We need decent looks, not busted plays. Simple. And my comment is not an overall indictment of CMA as a coach, so take it easy. CMA is a phenomenal coach who's kids give 100% every minute on the court. But in spite of your feelings about him, he doesn't walk on water. And, IMO, one of the things he needs to work on is his end of the game play calling. We've all seen enough of it over the past 2 years to see that it's not working efficiently.  

WTF are you talking about man?  So, because somebody disagrees with you they have an agenda?  Nobody is acting like anyone walks on water. Get over yourself dude, you're just a know it all, and you do this to every poster that disagrees with you, and try to change the subject and go personal, it's very childish and immature.   Pinzon played a great game with 0 turnovers, and was a major part in the comeback, coach trusted him as the 2nd best ball handler on the team to get it to Julian, he did that, and it didn't work out.  Those are the facts.  If that's an agenda for pointing that out, guilty as charged.  Have a good day.

I wouldn't go so far as to consider myself a "know it all", but I do know a fair amount. You twisted my words, which led me to believe you have an agenda. Only you know if you do or you don't.  Anyhow, personal issues aside for just a moment; Agree Pinzon played great. Vehemently  disagree that Pinzon should have had the ball there. Technically you're right, he got the ball to Champ. But he did not get the ball to him in a position to get a good look. Bottom line; we played a tough game and have lots of positives to take from it, but we still lost on a last play that left a lot to be desired.You can be happy with the play that was called. I wasn't, especially since we saw similar late game problems last year. Coaches get paid to give our kids the best chance of winning, IMO CMA did not do that on that last play. Note the "IMO". 

 

[ras]

I understand the refs blew some calls. I could live with the Mathis call. It looked ugly and resulted in an injury. I get the feeling Mathis is going to drive a lot of us nuts this season. Some great athletic plays followed by some ill-advised 3s and reckless drives on offense and gambles on defense. In the end, we still went to the line a lot and had the game in our hands in the last possession. Home town refereeing is part of the game. Have to overcome it on the road. I liked when one of the tv guys pointed out that Smith got fouled 3 times on one pay without getting a call.

For playing his first road game in a super hostile environment, I thought Pinzon was excellent. Yes, a bit out of control. But so was Posh. Pinzon has major upside, as does Stanley. If each had a college season under their belt, maybe we are a top 20 team. Unfortunately, our best player will be gone just when they have that year of experience.




 

There's a limit to hometown calls though.

The most egregious was actually when they stopped played after Julian's layup, because he got poked in the eye.  It was called in the classic "and 1" style, but they didn't call a foul.  They only stopped it so Julian could be attended to.

Which brings up the question:  How'd he poked in the eye in the first place?  Did the magic "poke-you-in-the-eye fairy" lay one on him?  Or was he poked by accident, by the Indiana defender?  If it's the latter, than that's a foul, plain and simple.

If he was poked in the eye prior to that layup attempt (which is possible, I guess), then he made one heck of a shot, even if it was just a 2 foot layup.

I thought the worst as when Stanley got hooked yet was given the foul and the bucket  counted. I turned the channel during the review and never heard the explanation.


 

No explanation was offered...other than the refs blew the call.
-      
the explanation  was that they were only reviewing who to call the foul on. But during the review they had to see the foul, so why they didn’t make the correct call is beyond me.
 

 

[beast of the east]

It was noticeable in the first half especially that Posh was slipping frequently as he went into the Paint .  Just my observation but , many of the Home Courts in College BB get some sort of treatment before the Season and , quite possibly during the Season too .  I doubt they are shellacked like a Bowling Alley but , who knows . The Floor at MSG is always slippery as hell , As if the Rangers left ice cubes all over .                       My point is this and just speculation but , if your Players are sliding all over the Place , maybe they need to look at the traction their Sneakers are delivering .   It just seemed to me that Posh had some trouble during the game with his footing .  Not something that normally he has trouble with . Just a observation . 

Do you remember how hard the bottoms of Puma Clydes were?  They were horrible on wooden floors, and you'd slip all over the place.   Great looking shoe, but you'd fall on your ass trying to play with them on a newly varnished floor, like my parish had.  

Frazier once lost BOTH shoes trying to guard the rockets Mike Newlin on a last minute possession.  Newlin score a jumper from the right baseline as Frazier tried to guard him barefooted. 

 

[Andrew]

Its very tough to lose a close game but I was happy to see us battle back on the road and the second half from Champs was something special. I was also very pleased with Smith. If this is the worst game Alexander plays all season we will be ok. He had five turnovers which won’t happen very often, but also had six assists and was key on defense to help get us back in the game despite the foul trouble. Interesting that Stanley, Pinzon and Wusu all played more minutes then Wheeler. I believe that is a trend that will continue. Curious to see how Coburn bounces back. His shooting will be needed down the road. I thought the Mathis call was wrong but for a road game we got our share of calls and Xavier Johnson getting into foul trouble was a big help.  

Indiana has a lot of talent and if Woodson can find the right combinations they will have a good season and that will help our metrics like the NET. It is way too early to calculate how many Big East games we will need to win to get into the NCAA tournament. Right now the team has to focus on sweeping the rest of the non conference games outside of Kansas and figure out a way to keep that one close. Cautiously optimistic that things work out for us.

 

[Andrew]

As for the last play, it wasn’t well executed. That said we didn’t lose the game solely on the last play.

 

[QueensBall]

Someone said it a couple of pages back but gotta remember that Soriano was dealing with Jackson-Davis. He’s more challenging than any big Soriano will face in the Big East. He’s a huge, athletic freak who’s a possible All American/First round pick. Even a great big from the Big East like Watson is a much friendlier matchup for Soriano because he’ll be dealing more with size & skill but not that elite athletic ability (no offense to Watson) Think Joel is going to contribute more than any of our bigs from recent seasons. 

More concerned about the future effectiveness of Coburn & Wheeler than Smith & Soriano. 

 

[paultzman]

Small sample, but initial impression is Wheeler can run court, shoots adequately, but will he battle down low and add physicality? Not confident about that so far.