(POST-GAME) Georgetown (MSG), Sun. Jan. 27, NOON, FOX / 570AM

[quote="DoodyNY33" post=317882]
For God's sake, even Heron admitted after the game they were at times just going through the motions in the 1st half. After having a week off![/quote]

I thought that this happened because Coach Mullin went to Florida to see Precious Achiuwa.

Noooo!!! He didn´t go to Florida and the team was not ready to play after a week off.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=317931]After the first two years of the Mullin experiment I posted a few times that  Mullin could never consistently win at St. John's without top tier talent because the unstructured NBA system he coaches could only be effective with Blue Blood level talent.  It also requires lights out shooters that are supported by a strong inside game.

Today we witnessed everything that could go wrong with that system when one or two players shoot miserably from the outside.  Unfortunately, when Clark's outside game is off he doesn't have the skillset to bring his game inside. Even when he tried today he got stuffed like a turkey.

What was more disturbing to me is what I see happening to my favorite player Shamorie Ponds.  I don't see the fire in his belly.  I see wasted passes to teammates that can't finish plays. I see frustrating 25 foot shots with 20 seconds on the clock because he doesn't see another money player on the floor.  Part  of that is the fault of a totally unstructured system that falls off the cliff as soon as Mullin has to go to his undertalented bench.

What many have been saying since Owens announced his departure was that without a competent big body this team would struggle against bigger competition.  The top priority was getting a transfer big because Keita was a big question mark.

When we had that opportunity in the form of Femi Olujobi on April 9, 2018 the only member of the staff to greet him was Matt Abelmassih.
 Neither Mullin nor Mitch were in NYC for this important visit.  The kid felt slighted.

"St. John's assistant Matt Abdelmassih met with graduate transfer Femi Olujobi yesterday. A visit is likely. Plan is to take one immediately eligible big and two sit-out transfers right now. #sub
1:30 PM · Apr 9, 2018."

On April 30th Femi chose DePaul.  Hofstra made the final cut. HOFSTRA!!

"Olujobi chose Depaul over Georgetown, Butler, and Hofstra, the schools rounding out his final four."

This staff was praised by some fans for their ability to develop players.
I never saw any development and the fact that a dozen Mullin recruits have left the program says a lot about the value of their tutelage.  Underachieving has been the hallmark and it was clearly mentioned by Owens when he chose his 5th year under a different staff.

Owens: " It hasn't gone how we expected it to go, for everybody not just me. We expected ourselves to be somewhere else we didn't get to. That alone would make anybody weigh their options." -- Tariq Owens. #sjubb
12:44 PM - Apr 9, 2018

A talented 5 star player like Heron has lost his game at St. John's. Simon and Clark are exactly the same players they were on day one.  Trimble would not have gotten off the bench at Florida State.  Yes, we are transfer U but we need to remember why players transfer. 

I came home and rewatched much of the game in fast forward and television gives you a closer and more personal look at this staff.  Burning time outs to have St. Jean rally the players while looking at your shoes and talking to Richmond is a  very  bad visual for fans.  Especially when the players come out and make the same mistakes.
As I'm sure some have mentioned, this didn't look like a rested team but an unprepared team.  It's getting futile mentioning the fact that we have no depth because when we had the opportunity to give Williams and Roberts burn in the OOC we got an overdose of Trimble.  When Clark isn't hitting and Shamorie isn't leading the offense effectively we will lose.  I expect to see more of the same in the remaining games.[/quote]

+1
 
For God's sake, even Heron admitted after the game they were at times just going through the motions in the 1st half. After having a week off!
No fire in Ponds belly......... If this is all true then yeah Mullin needs to go.
A coaches job is to keep the team together, if he can't then he needs to go.
But lets give him the Creighton game and see.
 
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[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=318099]For God's sake, even Heron admitted after the game they were at times just going through the motions in the 1st half. After having a week off!
No fire in Ponds belly......... If this is all true then yeah Mullin needs to go.
A coaches job is to keep the team together, if he can't then he needs to go.
But lets give him the Creighton game and see.[/quote]

Ponds looked defeated and uninterested. Was very surprised.
 
I re-watched the last two minutes as it all happened so fast at MSG. Live I thought LJF blew it by pulling up, but Georgetown had two guys scrambling back and it was not a clear cut layup. He was wide open at the line and besides his miss created all those putback chances. So now I think his decision was fine. How first Keita and then Simon missed those shots, wow, Keita wasn't even challenged. Not discounting anything else that went wrong all day, just can't believe we didn't find a way to steal the game right there.

Also, replay bailed out the refs in a situation that would not have been looked at 14 seconds earlier. The rules are dumb and another easy call was blown. Everyone in the place knew it was off Georgetown and the referee is a foot away and can't see it. What is with these guys?
 
Keita is a big body and that's it. FT's are an adventure, missed easy layups, etc. Man to be physically gifted like that...I'd be posterizing people if I had that frame.
 
Monday has never been my favorite day but really feeling the Monday blues this morning. Just kind of sad for team to be here after all the enthusiasm of a few short weeks ago. This team just has too much talent to be at the bottom of BE. Hoping staff and players sit down together this week and find a way to turn the season around. That starts with admitting they are in a desperate place and that changes need to be made both in terms of in game strategy and player intensity for 40 minutes. Jack said it best - Creighton game is their super bowl! If they approach it that way, they can win.
 
A tough loss by anyone’s standards .. Game was on the line with Figgy’s shot and then , not converting the put backs . All the Players falling down contributed to McClung’s dunk and that was it . If Figgy makes his shot , we win in all likelihood but, he had a good look . We didn’t need the 3 but, who knows what he was thinking ? G’town nearly beat us earlier in January as the game went down to the Wire in OT. They have a talented Squad and Akingo and McClung are special players as Freshman . Govan is Govan. We didn’t play well , shot poorly and didn’t get the quality of Game from 2 of our most Experienced Players . Frankly , they were awful and that was it . 5-26 isn’t BE Basketball and difficult to Win with stats like that. I thought Ponds did not get the Ball enough at Crunch time but, Simon and Clark had it too much . The free wheeling , Don Nelson style Game may not be the Answer for the College game . It’s a legitimate criticism . Expectations for our team were likely elevated by the Early Schedule and Record . We began to think of Winning the BE Conference and going far in March . Frankly, we overrated this Team . BE Coaches predicted a 4 th or 5 th place finish and that may have been too optimistic . Our Players have talent but, also weaknesses . Some here have glossed over that during the early season . Now that the Competition has toughened , those weaknesses are being exploited by opponents .. Our Player skills are what they are at this point . That isn’t going to change . Ponds is being defended as if only he can Win the Game by himself . It’s worked in our losses . Heron is a excellent Player but, still is finding his way into this style of play and new Teammates . And , for some reason Figgy gets ignored for long stretches without seeing the Ball . So, that’s about it .
 
Gtown is either better than us or just a horrible matchup. They outplayed us both games. Sometimes you just get beaten.

McClung is a superior player to Simon due to absurd skill differential. Akinjo is a stud. LeBlanc is better than anyone we have up front. Govan is the best big in the conference.

We have a superhero and much of what he does is negated by Simon's lack of skill.
 
I haven't had a chance to go through this thread and not so sure I want to because it will just bring up the utter disappointment I have after yesterday's effort. I will give my two cents worth (most of which I am sure has been mentioned):

1. It sure would have been nice after we got a steal on our end of the court late in the game to be able to call a time out but since we didn't have one left, we couldn't. So instead of having the ball we tried to avoid a tie up (arrow was with Gtwon I believe) and wound up losing it.

2. What was Figueroa thinking when he pulled up for that 3 near the end? It was 1 against 2, he should have waited and pulled it out and let us set up something.

3. Great hustle to get into the play by Kieta and getting the rebound after the ill-advised missed three by Figueroa. Now how in the ##!!! world did he miss the uncontested put-back shot?

4. Simon misses more shots in the paint then anyone I have seen possibly ever. Why can't he finish? He too had a put-back miss in the Figueroa/Kieta sequence.

5. Team totally fell about after Nos. 2-4 above which brings me back to not having a Time Out and a total lack of focus and discipline.

6. Huge crowd, national tv and I guess an entertaining game (especially for Gtwon supporters) and you reward the fans with this?

7. Seeing Keita, Clark, Trimble, Williams and Simon on the court at the same time in when down by 4 in the first half does not inspire a whole lot of confidence. I pictured GTown going on a 10-0 run, glad it didn't happen but the point is the same.

8. Glad to see Williams get more minutes than Trimble (9-6). Less of Trimble and more of Williams is a good thing I think.

9. I love watching Figueroa see a shot go up head to the boards and track it. Wish more guys did that on this team.

10. I didn't see the last basket by Georgetown as I was headed for the exit but heard the fans react. One guy bitterly complained. Win the game and there is nothing to be upset about. I hope it really pisses the team up sort of a "you loss and got it rubbed into your faces at the end." Maybe the switch will turn on and they will play hard, smart and wisely for entire games not just for a stretch or two. As for the shot itself, yeah maybe it was bush league but, to the victor goes the spoils.

11. Since this is not a repetitive complaint and is specific to this game (except for me, maybe No. 4) I think this belongs in the Post -Game thread and not the complaint thread.

Thanks for letting me vent.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=318116]Keita is a big body and that's it. FT's are an adventure, missed easy layups, etc. Man to be physically gifted like that...I'd be posterizing people if I had that frame.[/quote]

Sure you would.
 
We talk about venues and crowds, that was probably the biggest SJU-heavy crowd at the Garden since Lavin's first year. Critical game after 8 days off where we opened almost double-digit favorites and lose by double digits. Could have regained so much momentum with a W while building equity with fan base with quality performance in first Garden conference game. Instead it was a dud almost from the start and at 3-5 having lost 4 of 5 in light of expectations it's one of the lower points in the Mullin era.

Unfortunately, all of the positive work this staff has done to raise profile and pedigree of program is being undermined by their inexperience and flat out inability to consistently get to the winner's circle. Period. This season was about as set up as it could possibly be after the 2OT win in DC, and a mere 3 weeks later it's flirting with being lost.

The risks associated with this staff are currently outweighing the rewards which at the end of the day is a results-driven analysis. I don't care if this staff hasn't coached a day in their life (which they've looked a lot like recently) if they are 6-2 right now. But they are 3-5 and, arguably, 3 of the worst games of the season have occurred in the last 4 games. This isn't a matter of catching a series of bad breaks, much as Mullin typically spends the first 30 seconds of any break in the action yelling at the officials demonstratively which really comes into focus more at games live.

It's year 4, we have arguably best player in the conference, and we are just trying to scrape by. That's where this team is and that is concerning. Currently team isn't even winning it's fair share, let alone really impressing as it did at times earlier in the year. And that's one of biggest problems from my perspective. An incredibly talented first five is, at best, not getting better as the season progresses. And it might be getting worse.

Maybe they turn it around and claw into NCAA with February run. Obviously rooting for that, but even then something will probably be on the table that I previously thought was mutually exclusive: this team could make NCAA this year and I don't know that I'll be totally convinced program is on the right trajectory towards sustainable winning with this staff. There's just too much uncertainty in terms of program management - including 3 of 4 staff members somehow having their first collegiate coaching experience in the Big East, and this persisting into year 4 despite mixed results - but perhaps more importantly (and objectively) their ability to just win games. The latter of which is becoming more of a question mark with each passing game it seems.

Would a highly experienced assistant have prevented Patrick Ewing from running circles around us or Mac McClung from looking like the best player on the court? No idea and maybe not. But unless the results start to become more reflective of meaningful progress, perhaps it's time for SJU to remove some of those questions by taking course it hasn't seemed to with last 3 coaches - hiring an up and coming experienced head coach.

Not a high major assistant, not a semi-retired TV announcer, and not a former player - valiant as all of their efforts were and are in different ways. Hire whoever the next Danny Hurley is so that, at the absolute minimum, we have a better sense what the baseline for this program is with someone who has built a winner with less. Maybe that's good news and maybe it's not for the program. But at least we'd know. Right now it just seems like yesterday was another in a long line of being all over the map.
 
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[quote="Marillac" post=318158]Gtown is either better than us or just a horrible matchup. They outplayed us both games. Sometimes you just get beaten.

McClung is a superior player to Simon due to absurd skill differential. Akinjo is a stud. LeBlanc is better than anyone we have up front. Govan is the best big in the conference.

We have a superhero and much of what he does is negated by Simon's lack of skill.[/quote]. Very good Post Marillac .. MCClung has had a monster year as a BE Freshmsn . He may be in contention along side Joey Hauser for BE frosh if the year . He and Akingo are the type of guards we don’t have . Simon is not a Guard . They both , can shoot well . Simon ? Well ... I agree the first GTown game could have easily been a loss . Yesterday , if Figgy’s shot drops, I think we win ... a lot has been made of our Talent and how we are underperforming that talent . Ponds is one of the best Players in the Country .. Heron is a excellent player and can score . So can Figgy . But, when 2 of our most experienced Players shoot 5-26 in a close game , a win is unlikely . 26 shots for those 2 players is way too much ! They were out of Control . It’s a harsh assessment but, after 2 Seasons we expected better results from these 2 transfers . They have some good skills , without a doubt . Clark is a streaky shooter and foul prone . Simon can’t shoot a bit . These weaknesses have been exploited by our opponents . BE Coaches are playing Ponds not to win the game himself, which he can do and has . They are defending us and challenging Simon and Clark to win the game . It hasn’t happened . Heron and Figgy don’t get the Ball enough . Mullin has to change the shot quantity to Ponds , Figgy and Heron . I doubt Figgy and Heron would have shot 5-26 if given the chance .
 
I like Williams and think he can be an absolute stud by his senior year. That being said, he has been getting wide open looks and has almost always missed them from what I've seen. He was making them earlier in the season but since conference play he just cannot hit those open 3's. I know he's a freshman so he has plenty of time, but this is a top 150 kid rated as a 4 star by some. You have to be able to hit these shots consistently. Villanova always has 6 or 7 guys who can make open shots even if they just come in from the bench. He's 1 for 9 shooting 11% from 3 and most if not all of his are wide open. Instead of taking advantage of open 3's it seems like we feel more pressure ironically.
 
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Mike Zaun wrote: like Williams and think he can be an absolute stud by his senior year. That being said, he has been getting wide open looks and has almost always missed them from what I've seen. He was making them earlier in the season but since conference play he just cannot hit those open 3's. I know he's a freshman so he has plenty of time, but this is a top 150 kid rated as a 4 star by some. You have to be able to hit these shots consistently. Villanova always has 6 or 7 guys who can make open shots even if they just come in from the bench. He's 1 for 9 shooting 11% from 3 and most if not all of his are wide open. Instead of taking advantage of open 3's it seems like we feel more pressure ironically.


There are plenty of things to be critical of right now, but Williams is not one of them. Paultz has posted on numerous occasions that the one thing the kid needs to improve on is his outside shot. That will come with more playing time and confidence. Rather than focusing on his 1 from 9 from three, why not focus on him being 12 for 14 from inside the three point line? This kid is the least of our problems; just wish Coach would play him more!
 
IMO SJU's failure to move up to the top of the big east is mostly due to Mullin's stubbornness to act on two deficiencies which have been a problem for too long and both of which are correctable:
1 the failure to replace Slice with a local high school recruiter. Mullin recognized the need for this type of ass't and then hired the total opposite type of ass't to replace Slice
2 the failure to have enough big men to compete in the big east and to play with such short benches.Yesterday's Geo game is just another example dating back two full seasons that SJU can't play pressure defense vs an opponent with a size advantage because while SJU has backcourt personnel that could effectively press they would be gasping for air with ten minutes to go because of no bench.
Yesterday's game was another example of having two players who couldn't do a thing offensively and yet couldn't have been substituted for because there is nobody to bring in. Years one and two you say OK but 3 and 4 indicate something is wrong.The bench is full but there is always two or three players who are ineligible till the next year.
What is aggravating about both areas is that they were correctable two years ago but Mullin for some reason feels the recruiting can be handled by Matt alone and SJU can be successful playing five or six.
 
[quote="Enright" post=318204]IMO SJU's failure to move up to the top of the big east is mostly due to Mullin's stubbornness to act on two deficiencies which have been a problem for too long and both of which are correctable:
1 the failure to replace Slice with a local high school recruiter. Mullin recognized the need for this type of ass't and then hired the total opposite type of ass't to replace Slice
2 the failure to have enough big men to compete in the big east and to play with such short benches.Yesterday's Geo game is just another example dating back two full seasons that SJU can't play pressure defense vs an opponent with a size advantage because while SJU has backcourt personnel that could effectively press they would be gasping for air with ten minutes to go because of no bench.
Yesterday's game was another example of having two players who couldn't do a thing offensively and yet couldn't have been substituted for because there is nobody to bring in. Years one and two you say OK but 3 and 4 indicate something is wrong.The bench is full but there is always two or three players who are ineligible till the next year.
What is aggravating about both areas is that they were correctable two years ago but Mullin for some reason feels the recruiting can be handled by Matt alone and SJU can be successful playing five or six.[/quote] You echo my sentiments and many on the board. It appears Mullin is stubborn. IMO a big man was a must and not to put the effort in w Femi was inexcusable. It is obvious the staff needs experience and another recruiter. Your correct, should have been addressed.
 
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[quote="Manhattan1" post=317812]Would not be surprised to see the next coach to have duke ties.

Maybe outside the box but Pitino’s son? Thought he was going to Louisville when his pops retired now out of question. Family from NY maybe a possibility[/quote]


If it's Amaker I expect to medal in the next Olympics in projectile vomiting.
 
[quote="Section3" post=318025][quote="Paultzman" post=318016]https://twitter.com/brandontierney/status/1089630260709281798?s=21[/quote]
Even BT down in dumps. Sounds like he’ll need a few days to rid self of bad taste in order to do next episode of Red Storm report.[/quote]


Would love Tierney to ask Mullin what he thinks of the fan reaction to his future at St.John's. Probably won't happen.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=318118]Monday has never been my favorite day but really feeling the Monday blues this morning. Just kind of sad for team to be here after all the enthusiasm of a few short weeks ago. This team just has too much talent to be at the bottom of BE. Hoping staff and players sit down together this week and find a way to turn the season around. That starts with admitting they are in a desperate place and that changes need to be made both in terms of in game strategy and player intensity for 40 minutes. Jack said it best - Creighton game is their super bowl! If they approach it that way, they can win.[/quote]

If they lose @ Creighton then they'll know the season's over, and they'll lose @ both Duke and Creighton. Guaranteed.
 
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