(POST-GAME) Georgetown (MSG), Sun. Jan. 27, NOON, FOX / 570AM

[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=318257][quote="NCJohnnie" post=318118]Monday has never been my favorite day but really feeling the Monday blues this morning. Just kind of sad for team to be here after all the enthusiasm of a few short weeks ago. This team just has too much talent to be at the bottom of BE. Hoping staff and players sit down together this week and find a way to turn the season around. That starts with admitting they are in a desperate place and that changes need to be made both in terms of in game strategy and player intensity for 40 minutes. Jack said it best - Creighton game is their super bowl! If they approach it that way, they can win.[/quote]

If they lose @ Creighton then they'llknow the season's over, and they'll lose @ both Duke and Creigton. Guatanteed.[/quote]

Duke & Marquette. I agree.
 
[quote="SJU1512" post=318166]We talk about venues and crowds, that was probably the biggest SJU-heavy crowd at the Garden since Lavin's first year. Critical game after 8 days off where we opened almost double-digit favorites and lose by double digits. Could have regained so much momentum with a W while building equity with fan base with quality performance in first Garden conference game. Instead it was a dud almost from the start and at 3-5 having lost 4 of 5 in light of expectations it's one of the lower points in the Mullin era.

Unfortunately, all of the positive work this staff has done to raise profile and pedigree of program is being undermined by their inexperience and flat out inability to consistently get to the winner's circle. Period. This season was about as set up as it could possibly be after the 2OT win in DC, and a mere 3 weeks later it's flirting with being lost.

The risks associated with this staff are currently outweighing the rewards which at the end of the day is a results-driven analysis. I don't care if this staff hasn't coached a day in their life (which they've looked a lot like recently) if they are 6-2 right now. But they are 3-5 and, arguably, 3 of the worst games of the season have occurred in the last 4 games. This isn't a matter of catching a series of bad breaks, much as Mullin typically spends the first 30 seconds of any break in the action yelling at the officials demonstratively which really comes into focus more at games live.

It's year 4, we have arguably best player in the conference, and we are just trying to scrape by. That's where this team is and that is concerning. Currently team isn't even winning it's fair share, let alone really impressing as it did at times earlier in the year. And that's one of biggest problems from my perspective. An incredibly talented first five is, at best, not getting better as the season progresses. And it might be getting worse.

Maybe they turn it around and claw into NCAA with February run. Obviously rooting for that, but even then something will probably be on the table that I previously thought was mutually exclusive: this team could make NCAA this year and I don't know that I'll be totally convinced program is on the right trajectory towards sustainable winning with this staff. There's just too much uncertainty in terms of program management - including 3 of 4 staff members somehow having their first collegiate coaching experience in the Big East, and this persisting into year 4 despite mixed results - but perhaps more importantly (and objectively) their ability to just win games. The latter of which is becoming more of a question mark with each passing game it seems.

Would a highly experienced assistant have prevented Patrick Ewing from running circles around us or Mac McClung from looking like the best player on the court? No idea and maybe not. But unless the results start to become more reflective of meaningful progress, perhaps it's time for SJU to remove some of those questions by taking course it hasn't seemed to with last 3 coaches - hiring an up and coming experienced head coach.

Not a high major assistant, not a semi-retired TV announcer, and not a former player - valiant as all of their efforts were and are in different ways. Hire whoever the next Danny Hurley is so that, at the absolute minimum, we have a better sense what the baseline for this program is with someone who has built a winner with less. Maybe that's good news and maybe it's not for the program. But at least we'd know. Right now it just seems like yesterday was another in a long line of being all over the map.[/quote]

Another sound post, 1512.
 
So much being said about us and Georgetown...just look at glaring differennces in the two teams. Georgetown has a big man, recruited from our area, we dont. Their team has gotten better since beginning of season, we are worse. Two relatively new coaches, one recruiting better and coaching better...Ewing. Our recruiting stinks, we lose players every year, one quit this year who could have helped to spell Shamore, our defense is non existent and has been that way since Mullin came. Georgetown committed 19 turnovers Sunday and we never took advantage because of our disarray on offense. Simon gets more open opportunities then any player because other coaches are smart to leave him alone. Do we have any defensive stratigies against opponents ???? McClung was never challenged, other teams best players are left alone to take 3's at will. So many areas we need improvement, all adds up to last in Big East...disappointing and discouraging. No hope for near furure.
 
[quote="tac" post=318308]So much being said about us and Georgetown...just look at glaring differennces in the two teams. Georgetown has a big man, recruited from our area, we dont. Their team has gotten better since beginning of season, we are worse. Two relatively new coaches, one recruiting better and coaching better...Ewing. Our recruiting stinks, we lose players every year, one quit this year who could have helped to spell Shamore, our defense is non existent and has been that way since Mullin came. Georgetown committed 19 turnovers Sunday and we never took advantage because of our disarray on offense. Simon gets more open opportunities then any player because other coaches are smart to leave him alone. Do we have any defensive stratigies against opponents ???? McClung was never challenged, other teams best players are left alone to take 3's at will. So many areas we need improvement, all adds up to last in Big East...disappointing and discouraging. No hope for near furure.[/quote]

I've stated on several occasions that a 1-2-2 and 1-3-1, if executed properly, would be ideal for this group. They're undersized, so the zone would help protect 'em against fouls and teams who wanna feed the ball into the post. It'll also allow us to utilize our quickness, length and anticipation to where we're creating havoc with deflections and steals. Not to mention, trap outta those defenses as well.

We could switch between man and the two zone defenses I mentioned above. We also need to to scrap the constant switching which leaves someone like Ponds or Heron on a Govan, Brunk (Butler) or one of DePaul bigs mano-a-mano.
 
There are obvious reasons to be negative here. For those of us (myself included) who thought we could win the regular season Big East Conference that ship seemed to have definitely sailed. I personally though in our eighteen conference game schedule 12 and 6 was possible, 11 and 7 likely and a 10 and 8 finish was acceptable but slightly below my expectations. After eight games and sitting in a five way tie for last place you can't help but feel down about where we are at this point. Furthermore pre-season fears about lack of depth and a strong inside presence have definitely been realized.

The Georgetown and DePaul home losses did not shock me, but were very disappointing because they were reminiscent of last year's level of play. That level was simply not good enough to make us relevant.

With all of these negative thoughts I must remind myself that we were picked to finish third or fourth by most pre-season Big East Conference prognosticators and despite everything we are just one half game out from being in third place in the conference. If you are one of the many who believes we actually won the Seton Hall game then you could argue, that had that injustice not happened, we would be 4 and 4 and sitting alone in third place.

The point is while many are exiting the bandwagon (with sound reasons I am sure) the season is far from over. The onus is on the coaches and players to raise their level of play and finish strong. Third place is well within their grasp and if they can finish third or even fourth then they will get a bye in the conference tournament and are positioned to make some noise there. For those who have given up hope, I will not bother to challenge or even dispute your reasoning. For me, I will root like a lunatic for these guys to find their way back and turn this season into a success. The talent is there and hopefully it will happen for them.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=318310][quote="tac" post=318308]So much being said about us and Georgetown...just look at glaring differennces in the two teams. Georgetown has a big man, recruited from our area, we dont. Their team has gotten better since beginning of season, we are worse. Two relatively new coaches, one recruiting better and coaching better...Ewing. Our recruiting stinks, we lose players every year, one quit this year who could have helped to spell Shamore, our defense is non existent and has been that way since Mullin came. Georgetown committed 19 turnovers Sunday and we never took advantage because of our disarray on offense. Simon gets more open opportunities then any player because other coaches are smart to leave him alone. Do we have any defensive stratigies against opponents ???? McClung was never challenged, other teams best players are left alone to take 3's at will. So many areas we need improvement, all adds up to last in Big East...disappointing and discouraging. No hope for near furure.[/quote]

I've stated on several occasions that a 1-2-2 and 1-3-1, if executed properly, would be ideal for this group. They're undersized, so the zone would help protect 'em against fouls and teams who wanna feed the ball into the post. It'll also allow us to utilize our quickness, length and anticipation to where we're creating havoc with deflections and steals. Not to mention, trap outta those defenses as well.

We could switch between man and the two zone defenses I mentioned above. We also need to to scrap the constant switching which leaves someone like Ponds or Heron on a Govan, Brunk (Butler) or one of DePaul bigs mano-a-mano.[/quote]

I think this staff has a very limited playbook from which to draw plays. I'm not sure if different tactics are worked on in practices. In game adjustments are almost non existent. Ponds was outplayed by a freshman and it really stung. Ewing has two talented freshmen. Mullin is still unsure of his freshmen. Perhaps if he had been the one who recruited them he would have more confidence. Mullin hit the ground running in his first year at local gyms. Saw him and Slice at a couple of Ponds games.
Something has changed with him after that first year. Aside from personal stuff he seems more detached and less interested in the amount of work it takes. My usual nemesis berated me for pointing out his absences after another typically disappointing season. No doubling down on recruiting, no extra time with staff planning a turnaround. Mitch just flat out disappeared from the east coast with little contact. It was as if Greg St. Jean was the caretaker and the two legends were consultants.
I don't think that will fly with Cragg and hopefully they can work things out.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=318315][quote="MJDinkins" post=318310][quote="tac" post=318308]So much being said about us and Georgetown...just look at glaring differennces in the two teams. Georgetown has a big man, recruited from our area, we dont. Their team has gotten better since beginning of season, we are worse. Two relatively new coaches, one recruiting better and coaching better...Ewing. Our recruiting stinks, we lose players every year, one quit this year who could have helped to spell Shamore, our defense is non existent and has been that way since Mullin came. Georgetown committed 19 turnovers Sunday and we never took advantage because of our disarray on offense. Simon gets more open opportunities then any player because other coaches are smart to leave him alone. Do we have any defensive stratigies against opponents ???? McClung was never challenged, other teams best players are left alone to take 3's at will. So many areas we need improvement, all adds up to last in Big East...disappointing and discouraging. No hope for near furure.[/quote]

I've stated on several occasions that a 1-2-2 and 1-3-1, if executed properly, would be ideal for this group. They're undersized, so the zone would help protect 'em against fouls and teams who wanna feed the ball into the post. It'll also allow us to utilize our quickness, length and anticipation to where we're creating havoc with deflections and steals. Not to mention, trap outta those defenses as well.

We could switch between man and the two zone defenses I mentioned above. We also need to to scrap the constant switching which leaves someone like Ponds or Heron on a Govan, Brunk (Butler) or one of DePaul bigs mano-a-mano.[/quote]

I think this staff has a very limited playbook from which to draw plays. I'm not sure if different tactics are worked on in practices. In game adjustments are almost non existent. Ponds was outplayed by a freshman and it really stung. Ewing has two talented freshmen. Mullin is still unsure of his freshmen. Perhaps if he had been the one who recruited them he would have more confidence. Mullin hit the ground running in his first year at local gyms. Saw him and Slice at a couple of Ponds games.
Something has changed with him after that first year. Aside from personal stuff he seems more detached and less interested in the amount of work it takes. My usual nemesis berated me for pointing out his absences after another typically disappointing season. No doubling down on recruiting, no extra time with staff planning a turnaround. Mitch just flat out disappeared from the east coast with little contact. It was as if Greg St. Jean was the caretaker and the two legends were consultants.
I don't think that will fly with Cragg and hopefully they can work things out.[/quote]

If there is one lesson to be learned if we wind up changing coaches yet again it is that the next coach should actually need the salary and be willing to work hard to earn it. After many years of being a star player and executive, I'm pretty certain Mullin does not "need" the money.
 
[quote="ghostzapper" post=318313]There are obvious reasons to be negative here. For those of us (myself included) who thought we could win the regular season Big East Conference that ship seemed to have definitely sailed. I personally though in our eighteen conference game schedule 12 and 6 was possible, 11 and 7 likely and a 10 and 8 finish was acceptable but slightly below my expectations. After eight games and sitting in a five way tie for last place you can't help but feel down about where we are at this point. Furthermore pre-season fears about lack of depth and a strong inside presence have definitely been realized.



The Georgetown and DePaul home losses did not shock me, but were very disappointing because they were reminiscent of last year's level of play. That level was simply not good enough to make us relevant.

With all of these negative thoughts I must remind myself that we were picked to finish third or fourth by most pre-season Big East Conference prognosticators and despite everything we are just one half game out from being in third place in the conference. If you are one of the many who believes we actually won the Seton Hall game then you could argue, that had that injustice not happened, we would be 4 and 4 and sitting alone in third place.

The point is while many are exiting the bandwagon (with sound reasons I am sure) the season is far from over. The onus is on the coaches and players to raise their level of play and finish strong. Third place is well within their grasp and if they can finish third or even fourth then they will get a bye in the conference tournament and are positioned to make some noise there. For those who have given up hope, I will not bother to challenge or even dispute your reasoning. For me, I will root like a lunatic for these guys to find their way back and turn this season into a success. The talent is there and hopefully it will happen for them.[/quote]

GZ WROTE: "pre-season fears about lack of depth and a strong inside presence have definitely been realized."


Unfortunately we now have less depth and the hope of an inside presence with Keita has dissolved. As was obvious in the Georgetown game when players like Clark and Simon have horrible games there are no points coming from the bench. The poor recruiting balance some of us saw early is only now hitting those who insisted on wearing rose colored glasses and demonizing fellow posters. Rather than respect others opinions they called names and preached demotions while the boy was crying wolf. I preached giving Williams and Roberts early burn to give them confidence. It never happened. All we got was Trimble and more Trimble. Only now is Mullin going in the direction we hoped to see in the OOC. Now, however, the teams are well coached Big East teams. It may be too late. How many of the remaining games will the 5 staters play perfect games needed to win? Hopefully 6 at least to break even but I have doubts after witnessing the average effort put forth against Gtown at home. I feel sorry for the kids but the signs were there by last April.
 
"Mullin hit the ground running in his first year at local gyms. Saw him and Slice at a couple of Ponds games.
Something has changed with him after that first year."

Seems similiar to lavin, at first both show up at local gyms, after a year or 2, they stop going.

I don't want any big name guys anymore
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=318323]"Mullin hit the ground running in his first year at local gyms. Saw him and Slice at a couple of Ponds games.
Something has changed with him after that first year."

Seems similiar to lavin, at first both show up at local gyms, after a year or 2, they stop going.

I don't want any big name guys anymore[/quote]
Sounds a lot like the housekeepers I hire. They start off doing a great job and after a while they begin to slack off.
 
[quote="Class of 72" post=318315]
Mullin hit the ground running in his first year at local gyms. Saw him and Slice at a couple of Ponds games.
Something has changed with him after that first year.[/quote]

I know that many fans disagree but I think that the Slice´s loss was big.
 
[quote="oldschool Redmen" post=318257][quote="NCJohnnie" post=318118]Monday has never been my favorite day but really feeling the Monday blues this morning. Just kind of sad for team to be here after all the enthusiasm of a few short weeks ago. This team just has too much talent to be at the bottom of BE. Hoping staff and players sit down together this week and find a way to turn the season around. That starts with admitting they are in a desperate place and that changes need to be made both in terms of in game strategy and player intensity for 40 minutes. Jack said it best - Creighton game is their super bowl! If they approach it that way, they can win.[/quote]

If they lose @ Creighton then they'll know the season's over, and they'll lose @ both Duke and Creighton. Guaranteed.[/quote]

lol stop.

It'd be the most St. John's thing ever to lose at Creighton by 15 and then beat Duke and Marquette.
 
[quote="Marillac" post=318361][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=318257][quote="NCJohnnie" post=318118]Monday has never been my favorite day but really feeling the Monday blues this morning. Just kind of sad for team to be here after all the enthusiasm of a few short weeks ago. This team just has too much talent to be at the bottom of BE. Hoping staff and players sit down together this week and find a way to turn the season around. That starts with admitting they are in a desperate place and that changes need to be made both in terms of in game strategy and player intensity for 40 minutes. Jack said it best - Creighton game is their super bowl! If they approach it that way, they can win.[/quote]

If they lose @ Creighton then they'll know the season's over, and they'll lose @ both Duke and Creighton. Guaranteed.[/quote]

lol stop.

It'd be the most St. John's thing ever to lose at Creighton by 15 and then beat Duke and Marquette.[/quote]

It will be very interesting to see what the line in the Duke game will be.
 
[quote="ron " post=318363][quote="Marillac" post=318361][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=318257][quote="NCJohnnie" post=318118]Monday has never been my favorite day but really feeling the Monday blues this morning. Just kind of sad for team to be here after all the enthusiasm of a few short weeks ago. This team just has too much talent to be at the bottom of BE. Hoping staff and players sit down together this week and find a way to turn the season around. That starts with admitting they are in a desperate place and that changes need to be made both in terms of in game strategy and player intensity for 40 minutes. Jack said it best - Creighton game is their super bowl! If they approach it that way, they can win.[/quote]

If they lose @ Creighton then they'll know the season's over, and they'll lose @ both Duke and Creighton. Guaranteed.[/quote]

lol stop.

It'd be the most St. John's thing ever to lose at Creighton by 15 and then beat Duke and Marquette.[/quote]

It will be very interesting to see what the line in the Duke game will be.[/quote]

around 20.
 
[quote="bamafan" post=318324][quote="oldschool Redmen" post=318323]"Mullin hit the ground running in his first year at local gyms. Saw him and Slice at a couple of Ponds games.
Something has changed with him after that first year."

Seems similiar to lavin, at first both show up at local gyms, after a year or 2, they stop going.

I don't want any big name guys anymore[/quote]
Sounds a lot like the housekeepers I hire. They start off doing a great job and after a while they begin to slack off.[/quote]



Sounds more like the lazy Jarvis, Lavin and Mullin syndrome.
 
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