(POST GAME) Georgetown (MSG), Sun. Feb. 2, 1p, CBS / 970 AM WNYM

[quote="IDRAFT" post=375564][quote="Mike Zaun" post=375555][quote="Knight" post=375551]So tired of having a team that is always lacking in height, let alone shooters.
Starting to get concerned about CMA. I hope my fears don't pan out.[/quote]

No one can tell me we can't get 6'10+ 230+ guys with some skill on this team. Probably several. D2, D3, mid major transfers, overseas, etc. They're out there. I think we just don't go after them. I don't care if they can't run a 4.4 40 yard dash. We need real centers. This team may never have a Matt Stainbrook, Spellman, or Yurtsvten (however you spell it) while I'm alive. We never have size and we never have lots of shooters. Now CMA seems to love undersized guards that get swatted 50% of the time they get to the hoop. This is what you get when you have 2-3 star guys mostly and none have size and none can shoot. Literally every other Big East team has both. It's to the point where teams probably love playing us. I think our facilities kill us and the commuter school vibe kills us. I have no idea how Lavin got 4-5 star top 20-40 kids here.[/quote]

You keep pining for low level guys with size as an answer. Yes they are out there, and they end up at the Marists of the world for a reason. They are no good. Roberts ate up a full slate of those guys in the OOC, so why would they now fare better than him?

Also I am projecting some but I would be surprised if CMA is scouring the nation for 230-240 pound big men. I've seen no evidence of it in the recruiting information I have seen and nothing in the system being run to think it's a priority. Don't shoot the messenger!

You certainly can win with big men like that but you also can win without them. Texas Tech went to the championship game last year with a center that wasn't anything close to that weight. Fit their system though.[/quote]

Kinda ironic being that he often harp on recruiting and then mention a low-tiered big to anchor the middle.
 
[quote="SJU1512" post=375541]Optimistic view is that changes with more talent. Opposite view is coaching gets you there in those games. It's probably a little bit of both, definitely remain positive on success I think this staff is capable of, but yesterday was first real red flag for me in terms of what the ceiling is.[/quote]

I, like you and probably several others, am still optimistic but yesterday was the first real red flag for me as well. There's time to rectify things with coaching and bringing in more talent but I won't lie that yesterday's game placed a bad taste in my mouth for the rest of the regular season.
 
[quote="newsman13" post=375570][quote="Tonyinfairfield " post=375447][quote="dee" post=375445][quote="RedStormNC" post=375435]Attendance at MSG...7,436 = Embarassing

1st grade stickers as logos on court = Embarassing

17 pt lead loss = Embarassing

Skipping a Super Bowl party to avoid hearing about the embarassing loss .[/quote]

They cant shoot the ball. They just arent good. They cant play press for 40 minutes
My question is this- will st John's EVER be good again?[/quote]

That is the $64,000.00 question. Or are we destined to be good occasionally and make the Tournament every five or six years.[/quote]

There's no question, we'll never be good again as long as we're in the Big East. Shifting to a lesser conference like the MAAC will give us an annual gaudy record...and put us in the tournament virtually EVERY year.[/quote]

Shifting to a lesser conference should NEVER be an option. The repercussions, mostly negative, would be enormous. The solution is not dropping down to a lower level of talent where we can compete; I believe the answer is getting higher levels of talent to come here so we can compete in the BE.

I get that the jury is still out as to whether or not CMA will be able to give us those talented recruits. That's why I think we need to wait at least three years before we can make an accurate and fair assessment of CMA's recruiting abilities. I know. I cringe when I think "Another two years!" But this thing will not be turned around overnight.
 
Just saw the attendance was 8,100 yikes. Cragg is definitely going to have to go back to the drawing board for next year. I love the MSG games but if they're going to be either ghost towns or half opposing fans then we should probably be playing the majority of Big East games in Queens.

Also what was the deal with the center court logo yesterday? It appeared that MSG forgot to put it on the court until right before the anthem. And they didn't even put the normal sized logo on. Looked like a real mickey mouse operation with a bunch of clowns trying to put the sticker on the court in the dark while the anthem was being sung.
 
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[quote="SJU11Redmen" post=375577]Just saw the attendance was 8,100 yikes. Cragg is definitely going to have to go back to the drawing board for next year. I love the MSG games but if they're going to be either ghost towns or half opposing fans then we should probably be playing the majority of Big East games in Queens.

Also what was the deal with the center court logo yesterday? It appeared that MSG forgot to put it on the court until right before the anthem. And they didn't even put the normal sized logo on. Looked like a real mickey mouse operation with a bunch of clowns trying to put the sticker on the court in the dark while the anthem was being sung.[/quote]

1pm on Super Bowl Sunday is a tough event to draw a big crowd. Considering the records of two teams involved and factoring in that few people are traveling to the city and then on to their preferred Super Bowl party, 50% full isn't bad.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=375574][quote="SJU1512" post=375541]Optimistic view is that changes with more talent. Opposite view is coaching gets you there in those games. It's probably a little bit of both, definitely remain positive on success I think this staff is capable of, but yesterday was first real red flag for me in terms of what the ceiling is.[/quote]

I, like you and probably several others, am still optimistic but yesterday was the first real red flag for me as well. There's time to rectify things with coaching and bringing in more talent but I won't lie that yesterday's game placed a bad taste in my mouth for the rest of the regular season.[/quote]

Same with me. I have been optimistic and yesterday was a kind of throw your remote at the TV day, but I guess anyone can have a bad day and Coach has been pretty good most of the year. I felt like I was watching a a car wreck in slow motion the entire 2nd half. Coach should have been able to stop it and somehow make some changes to halt the Georgetown momentum. Lastly, we need to figure out who handles the ball at the end of games as Dunn is not the correct person based on what has transpired to date. I like Dunn but he has not shown he can handle crunch time well.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=375571][quote="newsman13" post=375570][quote="Tonyinfairfield " post=375447][quote="dee" post=375445][quote="RedStormNC" post=375435]Attendance at MSG...7,436 = Embarassing

1st grade stickers as logos on court = Embarassing

17 pt lead loss = Embarassing

Skipping a Super Bowl party to avoid hearing about the embarassing loss .[/quote]

They cant shoot the ball. They just arent good. They cant play press for 40 minutes
My question is this- will st John's EVER be good again?[/quote]

That is the $64,000.00 question. Or are we destined to be good occasionally and make the Tournament every five or six years.[/quote]

There's no question, we'll never be good again as long as we're in the Big East. Shifting to a lesser conference like the MAAC will give us an annual gaudy record...and put us in the tournament virtually EVERY year.[/quote]

If you believe that then you should also believe what would occur after that particular move. I'm rather confident it wouldn't be pretty and would be worse than what you currently perceive. Revenue, fans and recruiting would dry up and I bet you'd be the first one to stop watching once or if things went downhill.[/quote]

Second one maybe because I wouldn’t spend a dime or a minute on it. If I want to see mid-major basketball it is all over the area, I don’t need to go see SJU.
 
[quote="Redmen88" post=375580][quote="MJDinkins" post=375574][quote="SJU1512" post=375541]Optimistic view is that changes with more talent. Opposite view is coaching gets you there in those games. It's probably a little bit of both, definitely remain positive on success I think this staff is capable of, but yesterday was first real red flag for me in terms of what the ceiling is.[/quote]

I, like you and probably several others, am still optimistic but yesterday was the first real red flag for me as well. There's time to rectify things with coaching and bringing in more talent but I won't lie that yesterday's game placed a bad taste in my mouth for the rest of the regular season.[/quote]

Same with me. I have been optimistic and yesterday was a kind of throw your remote at the TV day, but I guess anyone can have a bad day and Coach has been pretty good most of the year. I felt like I was watching a a car wreck in slow motion the entire 2nd half. Coach should have been able to stop it and somehow make some changes to halt the Georgetown momentum. Lastly, we need to figure out who handles the ball at the end of games as Dunn is not the correct person based on what has transpired to date. I like Dunn but he has not shown he can handle crunch time well.[/quote]




After all with 10 seconds remaining I have to think Anderson's plan was to have Dunn drive to the basket hoping he would get fouled or make the basket. As far as having Heron or Fiqueroa involved, neither one can get themselves free. And even if we had more time on the clock our lack of a half court offense by coach wouldn't have helped.
 
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[quote="Ray Morgan" post=375531]Well that didn't take long. A team not expected to win much loses often as expected, and some of the board has already turned on the coach. Being good enough to compete doesn't mean a team is good enough to win. Talent and execution is what wins out in the last few minutes of a close game. And confidence. Outside of Dunn, I don't see anyone that really wants the ball in crunch time. Give coach a chance with a Big East roster before judging him. Is that so hard?[/quote]

I have openly criticized Anderson and it has nothing to do with results, it has everything to do with approach. As I have stated more than once, were we running offense, playing situational basketball when the time and score dictate it and failing I would have no comment or problem. We are not and that is what I am criticizing. If that had not been a recurring theme through the BE schedule, I would not comment. There is losing and there is losing and we are not getting blown out, getting blown out reflects lack of talent. In fact, the opposite has occurred, we have built leads and wilted. We made an amazing comeback against Butler and wilted. It is NOT the losing that bothers me in the least, it is the WAY we are losing. And the ready made, blindly accepted "lack of talent" as the main reason we are losing games the way we are, which I just don't agree with. Feel free to disagree but I would appreciate if someone could address the points I am trying to make or are people satisfied with the "offense" we ran at the end of the Butler, Hall and Gtown games? Probably about 13 minutes or so of combined "crunch" time and I don't remember a single, team oriented, crisp possession.
 
[quote="Logen" post=375586][quote="Ray Morgan" post=375531]Well that didn't take long. A team not expected to win much loses often as expected, and some of the board has already turned on the coach. Being good enough to compete doesn't mean a team is good enough to win. Talent and execution is what wins out in the last few minutes of a close game. And confidence. Outside of Dunn, I don't see anyone that really wants the ball in crunch time. Give coach a chance with a Big East roster before judging him. Is that so hard?[/quote]

I have openly criticized Anderson and it has nothing to do with results, it has everything to do with approach. As I have stated more than once, were we running offense, playing situational basketball when the time and score dictate it and failing I would have no comment or problem. We are not and that is what I am criticizing. If that had not been a recurring theme through the BE schedule, I would not comment. There is losing and there is losing and we are not getting blown out, getting blown out reflects lack of talent. In fact, the opposite has occurred, we have built leads and wilted. We made an amazing comeback against Butler and wilted. It is NOT the losing that bothers me in the least, it is the WAY we are losing. And the ready made, blindly accepted "lack of talent" as the main reason we are losing games the way we are, which I just don't agree with. Feel free to disagree but I would appreciate if someone could address the points I am trying to make or are people satisfied with the "offense" we ran at the end of the Butler, Hall and Gtown games? Probably about 13 minutes or so of combined "crunch" time and I don't remember a single, team oriented, crisp possession.[/quote]



Agree, our passing the ball back and forth without any movement or attempts to cut or pick has been obvious. The opposition doesn't even have to move. Our half court offense reminds me of last years.
 
[quote="SJU11Redmen" post=375577]Just saw the attendance was 8,100 yikes. Cragg is definitely going to have to go back to the drawing board for next year. I love the MSG games but if they're going to be either ghost towns or half opposing fans then we should probably be playing the majority of Big East games in Queens.

Also what was the deal with the center court logo yesterday? It appeared that MSG forgot to put it on the court until right before the anthem. And they didn't even put the normal sized logo on. Looked like a real mickey mouse

operation with a bunch of clowns trying to put the sticker on the court in the dark while the anthem was being
sung.[/quote]

Jeez I'm so glad I didn't attend yesterday. I've had just too much of this over the last 25 years. Remember this is the crew that was this close to hiring Porter Moser. If next years ticket prices are out of sight, then so am I.
 
[quote="MJDinkins" post=375571][quote="newsman13" post=375570][quote="Tonyinfairfield " post=375447][quote="dee" post=375445][quote="RedStormNC" post=375435]Attendance at MSG...7,436 = Embarassing

1st grade stickers as logos on court = Embarassing

17 pt lead loss = Embarassing

Skipping a Super Bowl party to avoid hearing about the embarassing loss .[/quote]

They cant shoot the ball. They just arent good. They cant play press for 40 minutes
My question is this- will st John's EVER be good again?[/quote]

That is the $64,000.00 question. Or are we destined to be good occasionally and make the Tournament every five or six years.[/quote]

There's no question, we'll never be good again as long as we're in the Big East. Shifting to a lesser conference like the MAAC will give us an annual gaudy record...and put us in the tournament virtually EVERY year.[/quote]

If you believe that then you should also believe what would occur after that particular move. I'm rather confident it wouldn't be pretty and would be worse than what you currently perceive. Revenue, fans and recruiting would dry up and I bet you'd be the first one to stop watching once or if things went downhill.[/quote]

I'm one of those geezers who've been following this team for almost 60 years. I doubt I'll ever stop watching. Besides, "things" have gone downhill long ago. We've been in a few conferences and we've had success before the Big East. I love Coach Anderson as the face of the program, but I can't see him bringing in the kind of talent who can put the team on his shoulders in crunch time. Unless we beg Lavin or Jarvis to return, what you see is what you'll get.

There's no "three or four" year plan. No way.
 
[quote="newsman13" post=375599][quote="MJDinkins" post=375571][quote="newsman13" post=375570][quote="Tonyinfairfield " post=375447][quote="dee" post=375445][quote="RedStormNC" post=375435]Attendance at MSG...7,436 = Embarassing

1st grade stickers as logos on court = Embarassing

17 pt lead loss = Embarassing

Skipping a Super Bowl party to avoid hearing about the embarassing loss .[/quote]

They cant shoot the ball. They just arent good. They cant play press for 40 minutes
My question is this- will st John's EVER be good again?[/quote]

That is the $64,000.00 question. Or are we destined to be good occasionally and make the Tournament every five or six years.[/quote]

There's no question, we'll never be good again as long as we're in the Big East. Shifting to a lesser conference like the MAAC will give us an annual gaudy record...and put us in the tournament virtually EVERY year.[/quote]

If you believe that then you should also believe what would occur after that particular move. I'm rather confident it wouldn't be pretty and would be worse than what you currently perceive. Revenue, fans and recruiting would dry up and I bet you'd be the first one to stop watching once or if things went downhill.[/quote]

I'm one of those geezers who've been following this team for almost 60 years. I doubt I'll ever stop watching. Besides, "things" have gone downhill long ago. We've been in a few conferences and we've had success before the Big East. I love Coach Anderson as the face of the program, but I can't see him bringing in the kind of talent who can put the team on his shoulders in crunch time. Unless we beg Lavin or Jarvis to return, what you see is what you'll get.

There's no "three or four" year plan. No way.[/quote]

I will always root for this program and I don't want to see us take a step down. I want us to take a step up. I believe CMA will do that.

And while there may not be a formal three or four year plan, so way this thing is going to turn around after one year of CMA as our HC. That ain't gonna happen.
 
[quote="SJUFAN2" post=375554][quote="Knight" post=375551]So tired of having a team that is always lacking in height, let alone shooters.
Starting to get concerned about CMA. I hope my fears don't pan out.[/quote]

What are your concerns with CMA?[/quote]

First let me say I am happy CMA is our couch and have hope that when he has his players the team won't failing so often.
I do not like his "multiple player substitutions" and I don't like the adjustments he makes to in-game strategy. Use of timeouts for momentum breakers and/or strategy changes.
Too often the team seems clueless of what to do in situations: bringing the ball upcourt versus a press, late game "Dunn-ball." Can't believe that we have reverted back to Mullin's shoot and retreat scheme. Box out!!!
That's a start.
 
Was avoiding this thread because that was such a bad loss but I clicked anyway and I see suggestions of us joining the MAAC. I’ll see my way out
 
I think it is unfair to criticize MA on his roster since he wasn't signed until April. But what is disturbing is the fall off in the play of LJ and Heron.From the beginning MA recognized them as the two team leaders but something just doesn't look right and it appears this is Dunns team even though his play hasn' t justified that.
 
This game was battle of the scrubs. There was some ugly shooting from both teams going around. If we just by some miracle can improve our shooting to just being a baseline average I will take it. We honestly just can't shoot straight. Can't blame CMA, he is not on the court playing. Also Dunn is doing what he can, don't knock the kid, he is playing the cards he was dealt. he realizes he needs to take over. We did not lose the game b/c of Dunn.
 
Let's pump the breaks on the MAAC talk (ridiculous) and cut CMA some slack. Yesterday was not his best game, but this team would be bad with Jay Wright at the helm.

Our current staff is better than our last three and with the right players will make things exciting again. Of course, we're all tired of the pathetic losses, but there's no choice but to be patient. The 2021-2022 season is CMA's evaluation year.
 
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[quote="JohnnyFan" post=375618]Let's pump the breaks on the MAAC talk (ridiculous) and cut CMA some slack. Yesterday was not his best game, but this team would be bad with Jay Wright at the helm.

Our current staff is better than our last three and with the right players will make things exciting again. Of course, we're all tired of the pathetic losing, but there's no choice but to be patient. The 2021-2022 season is CMA's evaluation year.[/quote]

Not to mention, Jay Wright went a combined 52-46 in his first three years at Villanova. The first season was actually the best of the three, ironically.

They were a good program when he got there, but they didn't become a power overnight.
 
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