(POST-GAME) @Duke, Sat. Feb. 2, Noon, ESPN / 570AM

[quote="shecky82" post=319870][quote="RedStormNC" post=319809]Learned my lesson to never spend big $ to any away game against one of the best teams in country. Didn't expect the W but seeing Ponds taken to school was embarrassing and maddening at the same time.



Post game quotes/press conf

https://redstormsports.com/sports/2019/2/2/postgame-quotes-st-johns-at-duke.aspx

I like Heron more and more.... he could end up being our leader next year, hope he stays...


Sheky
With the way this season is shaking out I don’t see any first round picks in SJU uniforms so who know who’ll be on our 2019-20 team

Still hope we can say be .500 in league 20 Ws and sneak into NCAAs

All the best!
Gen. Philip Sheridan
 
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I agree with all the Shamorie criticism but for what it’s worth, my duke fan friends who were with me at the game were actually impressed by Shamorie in first half. Duke game plan was clearly to stop Shamorie, tre Jones is an excellent defender and was picking Shamorie up beyond half court making him work way more than usual and all the help defenders were extremely aware of Shamorie at all times. He was taking what he was being given for the most part.

Obviously it went downhill from that wth careless turnovers and isn’t a good look for his potential draft stock but this duke team is ridiculously good when healthy. Let’s not forget they beat Kentucky by 50, beat Virginia without tre Jones playing at all, loss to Syracuse was without both reddish and tre, etc. the way to beat them is to zone them and pray they are cold which they were not yesterday. Zion is also a zone buster in the middle and bolden makes life very difficult for teams without size like us.

Coach K also definitively stated we are a ncaa caliber team in his eyes.
 
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Most frustrating thing about playing Duke was that outside of playing some zone in the first half, there seemed to be very little adjustment to our attack.
 
[quote="Tha Kid" post=319873]I agree with all the Shamorie criticism but for what it’s worth, my duke fan friends who were with me at the game were actually impressed by Shamorie in first half. Duke game plan was clearly to stop Shamorie, tre Jones is an excellent defender and was picking Shamorie up beyond half court making him work way more than usual and all the help defenders were extremely aware of Shamorie at all times. He was taking what he was being given for the most part.

Obviously it went downhill from that wth careless turnovers and isn’t a good look for his potential draft stock but this duke team is ridiculously good when healthy. Let’s not forget they beat Kentucky by 50, beat Virginia without tre Jones playing at all, loss to Syracuse was without both reddish and tre, etc. the way to beat them is to zone them and pray they are cold which they were not yesterday. Zion is also a zone buster in the middle and bolden makes life very difficult for teams without size like us.

Coach K also definitively stated we are a ncaa caliber team in his eyes.[/quote]


I very much enjoyed your Optimistic AND Realistic post - you are Dha Kidd!
 
Three observations about Duke game;
1 Can't remember a game getting beat by 30 and not feeling so bad
2 Would gladly settle for any NCAA bid but would love to have avoid an eight or nine seed in Duke's bracket
3 Watching Mullin during game, felt he must have been thinking " How could the NBA stop Zion from going directly to the pros from high school
 
[quote="Tha Kid" post=319873]I agree with all the Shamorie criticism but for what it’s worth, my duke fan friends who were with me at the game were actually impressed by Shamorie in first half. Duke game plan was clearly to stop Shamorie, tre Jones is an excellent defender and was picking Shamorie up beyond half court making him work way more than usual and all the help defenders were extremely aware of Shamorie at all times. He was taking what he was being given for the most part.

Obviously it went downhill from that wth careless turnovers and isn’t a good look for his potential draft stock but this duke team is ridiculously good when healthy. Let’s not forget they beat Kentucky by 50, beat Virginia without tre Jones playing at all, loss to Syracuse was without both reddish and tre, etc. the way to beat them is to zone them and pray they are cold which they were not yesterday. Zion is also a zone buster in the middle and bolden makes life very difficult for teams without size like us.

Coach K also definitively stated we are a ncaa caliber team in his eyes.[/quote]

Sorry, but I disagree. If Ponds is a so-called NBA prospect, he has to find a way to beat a freshman. He got his lunch handed to him all day.
 
[quote="ghostzapper" post=319752]Marillac Wrote: Jones shut Ponds down by himself--and badly. He was too quick for Ponds. I don't think Ponds was doubled and tripled like you claim. They went for steals when he turned his back and converged when he drove. That's pretty standard.

I won't dispute anybody's perceptions of what they saw out there. I totally agree with you that Jones was very very tough on Ponds defensively, but what I also saw was that multiple players were converging on Ponds to get the ball out of his hands as quickly as possible. This seemed to be their game plan and it worked well. I don't believe I was the only one who saw this, because Tarik Turner made the same point on the post-game radio broadcast. That said Ponds did not adjust well to their strategy or Jones superior defense.

However while it was a national TV game, winning against Marquette is probably more important. A sweep against a Top fifteen team would go a long way to us getting to the tournament.

BTW Justin Simon totally shut down Markus Howard the last time we played Marquette, but that has not stopped Hioward from bouncing back. I am hoping Ponds does the same Tuesday.[/quote]



"That said Ponds did not adjust well to their strategy or Jones superior defense."
Don't you really mean Mullin didn't adjust?
 
Ghostzapper Wrote: "That said Ponds did not adjust well to their strategy or Jones superior defense."

In reponse JackofVirginia wrote: Don't you really mean Mullin didn't adjust?

The short answer is yes. I think Mullin could have easily tried to move Ponds off the ball and tried to let him operate as the off guard, so that they could have run ball screens to get him shots. That did not happen and probably should have.

However it is also the player who needs to recognize what the defense is doing and adjust as well. So from where I sit it is a shared responsibility and both Mullin and Ponds were not operating at their best yesterday.

In the end I think the biggest piece of all of this was how well Duke played. What they did out there made us look bad and they were just brilliant and overwhelmed us. Most importantly we need to put it behind us and go out and beat Marquette.
 
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[quote="Tha Kid" post=319873]I agree with all the Shamorie criticism but for what it’s worth, my duke fan friends who were with me at the game were actually impressed by Shamorie in first half. Duke game plan was clearly to stop Shamorie, tre Jones is an excellent defender and was picking Shamorie up beyond half court making him work way more than usual and all the help defenders were extremely aware of Shamorie at all times. He was taking what he was being given for the most part.

Obviously it went downhill from that wth careless turnovers and isn’t a good look for his potential draft stock but this duke team is ridiculously good when healthy. Let’s not forget they beat Kentucky by 50, beat Virginia without tre Jones playing at all, loss to Syracuse was without both reddish and tre, etc. the way to beat them is to zone them and pray they are cold which they were not yesterday. Zion is also a zone buster in the middle and bolden makes life very difficult for teams without size like us.

Coach K also definitively stated we are a ncaa caliber team in his eyes.[/quote]

I came away incredibly impressed with Jones. He's so much better than Duval was.


I'm obviously the biggest Ponds fan around, but be continues to struggle against players who possess NBA physical talent--and a true freshman this time. Perhaps even worse than the poor showing physically were the turnovers and the walking back on D/pouting/lack of maturity he displayed. For a kid with his lack of physical talent (who doesn't play great D) he can't have any question marks with skill, work ethic, and mental makeup.

There is time to turn it around, but I fear this game and that badly missed dunk will come to define him in the eyes of many NBA scouts and GMs.
 
[quote="Tha Kid" post=319873]I agree with all the Shamorie criticism but for what it’s worth, my duke fan friends who were with me at the game were actually impressed by Shamorie in first half. Duke game plan was clearly to stop Shamorie, tre Jones is an excellent defender and was picking Shamorie up beyond half court making him work way more than usual and all the help defenders were extremely aware of Shamorie at all times. He was taking what he was being given for the most part.

Obviously it went downhill from that wth careless turnovers and isn’t a good look for his potential draft stock but this duke team is ridiculously good when healthy. Let’s not forget they beat Kentucky by 50, beat Virginia without tre Jones playing at all, loss to Syracuse was without both reddish and tre, etc. the way to beat them is to zone them and pray they are cold which they were not yesterday. Zion is also a zone buster in the middle and bolden makes life very difficult for teams without size like us.

Coach K also definitively stated we are a ncaa caliber team in his eyes.[/quote]. Nice Post , Kid ... Haven’t seen you around this Board in a while . Stay with it . Good comments about the games and our Program are always a good read from you . Best to you ...
 
JONES TOTALLY OUTPLAYED SHAMORIE..MAYBE HE SHOULDN'T TURN PRO..UNTIL AFTER SENIOR YEAR..THIS GAME REMINDED ME OF THE FIRST EWING- MULLIN GAME AT THE GARDEN.. G-TOWN UP AT HALFTIME 44-12..THIS IS A GAME SJ WILL REMEMBER..
 
Honestly it's pretty stupid to play Duke just to win a few times every few decades. Duke got tougher contests from far inferior teams to us. This game was on ESPN and made the casual fan say "damn, St. John's sucks". I know you can see it as a win win, expecting the loss but big press if we win. But we should really stop playing a Duke type program until we are ready with a full team. We need to play teams we actually have a chance against but are also good programs like Florida, Maryland, Cuse, Michigan State, etc. These are games we would actually have a real chance in. Does us no good getting our wheels blown off by 30 on ESPN to anyone IMO. Doubt that happens with any of the former I mentioned.
 
Realistically speaking, we have to win enough to avoid finishing lower that six, in conference. Teams three through six are all capable of beating each other, so we need to win the Thursday game, at least, to get a bid. It may come down to how the post-season tourneys go and how many at-large bids are available.
 
[quote="Mike Zaun" post=319896]Honestly it's pretty stupid to play Duke just to win a few times every few decades. Duke got tougher contests from far inferior teams to us. This game was on ESPN and made the casual fan say "damn, St. John's sucks". I know you can see it as a win win, expecting the loss but big press if we win. But we should really stop playing a Duke type program until we are ready with a full team. We need to play teams we actually have a chance against but are also good programs like Florida, Maryland, Cuse, Michigan State, etc. These are games we would actually have a real chance in. Does us no good getting our wheels blown off by 30 on ESPN to anyone IMO. Doubt that happens with any of the former I mentioned.[/quote]

We just beat duke last year. And yesterday was the first time a duke team blew us out in a pretty long time.

Even when we weren’t even a good team, we had Moe Harkless and a bunch of freshman, we went into Cameron and kept the game close the whole way. The year before that, we stomped all over duke at MSG. Even coach K’s 1,000th win was a game St. John’s controlled the whole way and let go of.

I know you’re mad we got embarrassed yesterday and so is everyone but Duke/SJU has been a matchup that has brought some pretty great games over the years. We are 2-3 in our last 5 against duke. We blew them out once, they blew us out once.

Sure during the norm years they beat us pretty handily a few times, but who wasn’t beating us handily during the norm years?

I heard Paultz said the rivalry has probably run its course, and that’s fine I guess, but it’s not like we haven’t been able to compete against their program over the years

And the logic that people saw the game yesterday and thinks we suck, well we beat them and nova last year... but that doesn’t mean we were a great team last year. Just like losing yesterday doesn’t mean we suck.

You know what leaves more of an impression on people than playing at noon on a random Saturday on ESPN?

Winning games in March. If we do that none of that game even matters and people will recognize sju.
 
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Heron Simon
14pnts on 6-22 shooting, 1-6 from 3

Heron is soft, and Simon is nothing more then a bench player
I want both back, Simon off the bench, don't like that then good bye, a real player can atleast hit freaking hit layups.
Hope Heron comes back and is embarrassed by this year, and plays like he has something to prove.
 
We beat or play Duke close every single time we've had a tournament caliber team since 1998-1999. Duke is the top of the heap for college basketball and I think it can be a huge recruiting tool.

The game always creates significant buzz @ Duke and across the basketball world when we are decent. That is pretty much the only time we are relevant it seems. It's one of the best OOC, out-of-region rivalries in all of college basketball even if they clean our clock 80% of the time.
 
We played poorly and of course Duke played a stellar game - I’m
Disappointed but if we played them again this week - nobody knows for sure - I’d bet we lose by 10-20...not 30...again I realize it’s all speculative...
But I note this ( not sure if a poster already shared these games ):
Duke has beaten down
Kentucky 118-84
Indiana 90-69
Clemson 87-68
Wake F 87-65
Norte Dame 83-61

Go Storm!
Our kids deserve our support!!!
 
[quote="Paultzman" post=319922]Told main reason for curtailing Duke/SJU series is ACC going to 20 game league schedule next season & limited options for Duke as a result.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...dule_in_2019-20_when_acc_network_launche.html[/quote]

Sucks, I'll miss the series.

Still, ACC teams will have 11 OOC games. Take away half of those for Duke tournament games, and they still have time to play us. Must be more to it.
 
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