(POST-GAME) @Duke, Sat. Feb. 2, Noon, ESPN / 570AM

[quote="Paultzman" post=319922]Told main reason for curtailing Duke/SJU series is ACC going to 20 game league schedule next season & limited options for Duke as a result.

http://www.syracuse.com/orangebaske...dule_in_2019-20_when_acc_network_launche.html[/quote]

Follow the money, Lol.
Seriously, I’m mixed on how I view playing Duke every year.
Their program is galaxies removed from ours.
Aside from the occasional upset and the sudden and fast-disappearing burst of ‘pizzazz’ we get from an occasional win, what else does it do for us that’s ‘positive’?
I could be wrong but I don’t think it does much.
A 20-25-30 point drubbing on national TV—while perhaps ‘expected’—damages perceptions about our program that we’re trying to rebuild and is basically embarrassing, in my view.
 
Aside from Ponds which I have been critical the way he played against Duke( and as I said coach should have taken the ball out of his hand ) all of which was not going to change the outcome,we shot 5-26 from 3 hit 10 of those there is 30 pts which is a do able %
 
The record against Duke is something like 17 to 9 and they won 9 straight I believe while our program was in the Robert's and Jarvis era. So if you take those down years caused by the infamous Pittsburgh incident it isnt really bad. We also are weak for losing Owen's who was a great shot blocker.
 
[quote="dee" post=319929]The record against Duke is something like 17 to 9 and they won 9 straight I believe while our program was in the Robert's and Jarvis era. So if you take those down years caused by the infamous Pittsburgh incident it isnt really bad. We also are weak for losing Owen's who was a great shot blocker.[/quote]

I do think we miss Owens, but not for his shot blocking. I think we miss his intensity. He was flawed, but that kid brought his full effort, every game.
 
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Having attended 2 of the last 4 Duke games in MSG (2012 and 2014 games I believe), I can say that Duke game brings absolute electricity to the program and to NYC as (I) Duke is a storied program and (ii) so many Duke alumni in NY/NJ. There's been a lot of mutual respect between the 2 programs going back to the Barkley/Artest years and Coach K always gives the Johnnies props.
I hate to see the series end. As others have said, we have done pretty well in the series if you take out the Norm years.
 
Difficult to see the glass half full, following a 30-point blowout.
You guys see a recruiting benefit from beating Duke last year?
Igiehon, Lewis, or Kofi commit...here?
Guess I missed it.
As I said, any ‘pizzazz’ is short-lived.
Meanwhile, I won’t soon forget yesterday’s 30-point fiasco.
 
Playing Duke on national TV and especially beating Duke is great for the SJU brand. I can't count how many people down here in Tar Heel/Blue Devil land who barely knew who St. John's was before we beat Duke last year came up to asking me questions or giving me congrats on the Johnnies. Plus it is electric at the garden when we play them. There is no down side to the series even if we get smoked from time to time.
 
Totally disagree. A blowout by Duke, any double-digit loss to them, reinforces negative perceptions about St. John’s, that we’re irrelevant, and is used negatively in recruiting.
Again, how’d we do in recruiting following our win last year?
Guess I missed the steamroll of Top HS recruits committing here.
Playing them and beating them every now and then does nothing for our ‘brand’ in any meaningful way.
There is no lasting follow-through on the short term boost from any such ‘triumphs’.
 
Don't follow your "what did it do for our recruiting point" at all. You could make that exact same statement about any game we played last year including beating #1 Villanova.
I was at the Garden when Lavin's first team destroyed Duke and also when Lavin's last team gave them all they could handle for Coach K's historic victory. Trust me both of those games (as well as the game in the Garden when Bootsy & Artest also beat them) generated more fan interest (not the die hards on this board but the general NY sports fan) than any other single games those years. So we can agree to disagree on this one.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=319950]Don't follow your "what did it do for our recruiting point" at all. You could make that exact same statement about any game we played last year including beating #1 Villanova.
I was at the Garden when Lavin's first team destroyed Duke and also when Lavin's last team gave them all they could handle for Coach K's historic victory. Trust me both of those games (as well as the game in the Garden when Bootsy & Artest also beat them) generated more fan interest (not the die hards on this board but the general NY sports fan) than any other single games those years. So we can agree to disagree on this one.[/quote]

Short term boosts from exciting and thrilling and one-off wins that unfortunately do not have follow-through for our program are worthless imo..
You’re right, no ‘one-off’ wins do much regarding creating positive long-term perceptions.
Got to win consistently to generate any long-term positive effects.
So, why play against college hoops’ Magnet Program and get beaten more often than not, and badly more often than desired?
All that only reinforces negative perceptions that have surrounded St. John’s basketball for 20 years.
 
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[quote="Chicago Days" post=319949]Totally disagree. A blowout by Duke, any double-digit loss to them, reinforces negative perceptions about St. John’s, that we’re irrelevant, and is used negatively in recruiting.
Again, how’d we do in recruiting following our win last year?
Guess I missed the steamroll of Top HS recruits committing here.
Playing them and beating them every now and then does nothing for our ‘brand’ in any meaningful way.
There is no lasting follow-through on the short term boost from any such ‘triumphs’.[/quote]

again, never making the tournament and never winning anything in the postseason reinforces that negative perception more than losing to duke does. Much rather play and get some exciting wins every couple years. I don’t get some fans. They don’t want a negative perception around the program, but can’t admit that we probably deserve it
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=319953][quote="Chicago Days" post=319949]Totally disagree. A blowout by Duke, any double-digit loss to them, reinforces negative perceptions about St. John’s, that we’re irrelevant, and is used negatively in recruiting.
Again, how’d we do in recruiting following our win last year?
Guess I missed the steamroll of Top HS recruits committing here.
Playing them and beating them every now and then does nothing for our ‘brand’ in any meaningful way.
There is no lasting follow-through on the short term boost from any such ‘triumphs’.[/quote]

again, never making the tournament and never winning anything in the postseason reinforces that negative perception more than losing to duke does. Much rather play and get some exciting wins every couple years. I don’t get some fans. They don’t want a negative perception around the program, but can’t admit that we probably deserve it[/quote]

Sure we ‘deserve’ it.
Mostly disappointing seasons for 2 decades do that.
My point is, ‘one-off’ victories against Duke do nothing meaningful for the program and double-digit losses reinforce the negative stereotype.
 
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[quote="Chicago Days" post=319954][quote="Jack Williams" post=319953][quote="Chicago Days" post=319949]Totally disagree. A blowout by Duke, any double-digit loss to them, reinforces negative perceptions about St. John’s, that we’re irrelevant, and is used negatively in recruiting.
Again, how’d we do in recruiting following our win last year?
Guess I missed the steamroll of Top HS recruits committing here.
Playing them and beating them every now and then does nothing for our ‘brand’ in any meaningful way.
There is no lasting follow-through on the short term boost from any such ‘triumphs’.[/quote]

again, never making the tournament and never winning anything in the postseason reinforces that negative perception more than losing to duke does. Much rather play and get some exciting wins every couple years. I don’t get some fans. They don’t want a negative perception around the program, but can’t admit that we probably deserve it[/quote]

Sure we ‘deserve’ it.
Mostly disappointing seasons for 2 decades do that.
My point is, ‘one-off’ victories against Duke do nothing meaningful for the program and double-digit losses reinforce the negative stereotype.[/quote]

So??

Maybe nothing major happens for our program after winning against duke, but I watch the highlights from last years game and I still get goosebumps. It’s fun to play them and get some memorable wins sometimes. For the fans that have put up with this damn program. My point is a loss to Duke doesn’t do anything negative for us that wouldn’t be happening if we didn’t play duke.

We could not play duke every year, still not make the tournament, and people will still think we are bad
 
Chicago Days wrote: Short term boosts from exciting and thrilling and one-off wins that unfortunately do not have follow-through for our program are worthless imo..
You’re right, no ‘one-off’ wins do much regarding creating positive long-term perceptions.
Got to win consistently to generate any long-term positive effects.
So, why play against college hoops’ Magnet Program and get beaten more often than not, and badly more often than desired?
All that only reinforces negative perceptions that have surrounded St. John’s basketball for 20 years.

What reinforces perceptions about our once great program's increasing irrelevance is playing teams like Sacred Heart not a team like Duke. This is my last word on the subject, but if you've attended a St. John's Duke game in the garden, you've experienced the electricity it generates. It gets those NY Sports fans who are not strictly St. John's fans interested in the program which is huge.
 
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[quote="Jack Williams" post=319955][quote="Chicago Days" post=319954][quote="Jack Williams" post=319953][quote="Chicago Days" post=319949]Totally disagree. A blowout by Duke, any double-digit loss to them, reinforces negative perceptions about St. John’s, that we’re irrelevant, and is used negatively in recruiting.
Again, how’d we do in recruiting following our win last year?
Guess I missed the steamroll of Top HS recruits committing here.
Playing them and beating them every now and then does nothing for our ‘brand’ in any meaningful way.
There is no lasting follow-through on the short term boost from any such ‘triumphs’.[/quote]

again, never making the tournament and never winning anything in the postseason reinforces that negative perception more than losing to duke does. Much rather play and get some exciting wins every couple years. I don’t get some fans. They don’t want a negative perception around the program, but can’t admit that we probably deserve it[/quote]

Sure we ‘deserve’ it.
Mostly disappointing seasons for 2 decades do that.
My point is, ‘one-off’ victories against Duke do nothing meaningful for the program and double-digit losses reinforce the negative stereotype.[/quote]

So??

Maybe nothing major happens for our program after winning against duke, but I watch the highlights from last years game and I still get goosebumps. It’s fun to play them and get some memorable wins sometimes. For the fans that have put up with this damn program. My point is a loss to Duke doesn’t do anything negative for us that wouldn’t be happening if we didn’t play duke.

We could not play duke every year, still not make the tournament, and people will still think we are bad[/quote]

Ah, I think blowout losses to Duke highlights the disparity between the two programs and feeds into negative narratives of our competitors about us.
Again, just my view, but think that strongly.
 
[quote="NCJohnnie" post=319958]Chicago Days wrote: Short term boosts from exciting and thrilling and one-off wins that unfortunately do not have follow-through for our program are worthless imo..
You’re right, no ‘one-off’ wins do much regarding creating positive long-term perceptions.
Got to win consistently to generate any long-term positive effects.
So, why play against college hoops’ Magnet Program and get beaten more often than not, and badly more often than desired?
All that only reinforces negative perceptions that have surrounded St. John’s basketball for 20 years.

What reinforces perceptions about our once great program's increasing irrelevance is playing teams like Sacred Heart not a team like Duke. This is my last word on the subject, but if you've attended a St. John's Duke game in the garden, you've experienced the electricity it generates. It gets those NY Sports fans who are not strictly St. John's fans interested in the program.[/qu,ote]

Yes I have. And yeah, exhilarating but they do not ‘matter’ with respect to long-term effects.
Consistently winning would.
We haven’t done that in decades.
If we were a program that still won consistently year-in and out, then yeah, let’s play Duke every year to ‘pitch’ recruits on our merits, that ‘we’re this good without you, think how good we’d be with you?’
But the way it is presently, doesn’t work, imo.
 
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So your point is it highlights the difference in programs... do you really have to watch us play them to recognize that? We are nowhere near duke.

Should we leave the conference so we can avoid nova, a program much better than us too?

Avoiding duke is not gonna keep the truth about our program away from people’s eyes, I’m sorry
 
The idea that we shouldn't play top tier programs, be it Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky etc. because it increases negative perceptions of our program is wrong on so many fronts I don't know what to say. Frankly, Duke has done us a great favor by continuing to play us during our down times. If we don't want to play top tier programs because we are afraid to get beat by 30 we should join the Atlantic 10.
 
[quote="Jack Williams" post=319962]So your point is it highlights the difference in programs... do you really have to watch us play them to recognize that? We are nowhere near duke.

Should we leave the conference so we can avoid nova, a program much better than us too?

Avoiding duke is not gonna keep the truth about our program away from people’s eyes, I’m sorry[/quot e

A blind man sees the differences in the two programs.
My point is, it’s futile to play Duke because ‘one-off’ wins are exhilarating but short-lived and bad losses capitalize the differences with bold ink and exclamation points and are used against us by our competition.
Also, the timing is bad as well, in the middle of the BEC season and ‘late’ in the season when we should be dealing with Conference standings and strategy and not prepare for Duke.
 
I’d play Duke 1 week before the BEC starts to gauge how far we have go to be real.
Otherwise, fuhgeddaboudit.
 
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