(POST GAME) @Butler, Tues., Feb. 9, 9p, FS-1 / 570 AM WMCA
- Thread starter Knight
- Start date
Pretty sure the reason CMA pulled Moore in OT was after Champs put us up 73-72 with old fashoned 3 point play, on two consecutive possessions Butler got layups and Moore failed to provide any attempt at rim protection; Dunn was visibly upset after one of them. Of course problem started with allowing easy dribble penetration towards the hoop.
Inbound the ball successfully and no one questions anything. On to the next one
WillyDilly
Member
My observations:
- This was not Anderson's best game coaching wise. The substitution pattern did not make a whole lot of sense...and it really cost us.
- The inbounds play wasn't as bad as some are making it out to be. We had an open man, it was just a bad pass and we didn't execute. Those things happen.
- We go as Posh goes. Simple as that.
- As much as it would have pained me, I would have liked to have seen Toro get some run last night. He at least provides a big body that can take up space.
- Earlington needs to see a drastic reduction in his minutes. He just doesn't bring enough to the table offensively or defensively. And he absolutely should not be anywhere near the court at the end of close game.
- Cole was a no show. Hopefully it was just an off night and he bounces back.
- Playing at Butler is one of those games where record doesn't matter. It is always going to be tough to come away with a win.
- It was a brutal loss, but I don't think it makes or breaks our season. Learn from it and move on.
- This was not Anderson's best game coaching wise. The substitution pattern did not make a whole lot of sense...and it really cost us.
- The inbounds play wasn't as bad as some are making it out to be. We had an open man, it was just a bad pass and we didn't execute. Those things happen.
- We go as Posh goes. Simple as that.
- As much as it would have pained me, I would have liked to have seen Toro get some run last night. He at least provides a big body that can take up space.
- Earlington needs to see a drastic reduction in his minutes. He just doesn't bring enough to the table offensively or defensively. And he absolutely should not be anywhere near the court at the end of close game.
- Cole was a no show. Hopefully it was just an off night and he bounces back.
- Playing at Butler is one of those games where record doesn't matter. It is always going to be tough to come away with a win.
- It was a brutal loss, but I don't think it makes or breaks our season. Learn from it and move on.
beast of the east
Active member
Classy coach. No excuses, no griping, honest responses.RedStormNC" post=419042 said:
I think that you have to give Butler credit for doing their homework on our vulnerabilities (probably helpful that they played us already) and taking advantage of them.
Vulnerability #1 is stopping the dribble (a drum I have been banging all year long). We often get away with our inability to stop the ball because the pressure defense creates enough problems for the other team brining the ball up the court, plus we get turnovers. Butler understood that once you survive that and get the ball over halfcourt, our guards are not good at stopping the ball on the drive, and they took full advantage of that.
Vulnerability #2 is post defense, which has been another long-term obvious issue. In games where we have to deal with a decent big, it usually manifests in the lack of a rim protector. In this game, it was a result of (1) the guards failing to stop the ball and (2) the lack of rotation when whoever was playing center had to come up to help. Butler beat us over and over and over by getting past the guards and when Josh or Moore came up to help, dropping the ball to a forward for an easy layup. Similarly it would be nice to recognize and stop a back door cut once in a while. All of these things - not stopping the ball, the lack of a good big man, the lack of understanding how to help and rotate in the paint - contribute to terrible post defense, and Butler took full advantage of that.
Vulnerability #3 is that when you play Posh and Dunn together, your guards are too short. There are some advantages that come from playing them together, but if the opposing team can handle the pressure then it is just too easy for a player like Thompson to use their length to score - especially if the other team is able to isolate and/or post up, which they did.
Vulnerability #4 is that as wonderful as Champagnie is, he still isn't a finished product. A lot of his game is the catch-and-shoot variety. He is getting better at creating some space to get his own shot off if the defender gives him too much room. If he has a lane he will take a runner. But he has not shown the ability to put the ball on the floor and beat a defender on a consistent basis, which makes it easier for other teams to minimize his presence than it should be. Butler understood that if you guard him closely on the perimeter then (a) SJU is not going to run plays to get him open off a screen; and (b) he isn't likely to put the ball on the deck and take it to you. Most of what we do to get him shots is ball rotation, and you can see him get visibly frustrated when the ball doesn't rotate his way. It might benefit SJU to run what Nova ran against us at least a dozen times, which is the pick-and-pop play on the perimeter - not infrequently both defenders stick to the ballhandler long enough for the pick/pop player to get an open 3 on the pass back.
Vulnerabiity #5 is youth, and there's not fix for that but time and experience. Posh has grown by leaps and bounds but he got schooled by a good senior last night who could handle the ball pressure and was taller than he was. Wusu tried to put the game on his shoulders and batted about .500 at it - as he develops his game and his understanding of the game the execution will improve.
FWIW there was nothing wrong with the inbounds play that caused OT, Wusu got the ball to Dunn and had Dunn corraled it and been fouled we probably would have won in regulation. Unfortunately the pass was a little low and Dunn just didn't handle it. Stuff happens.
All in all I thought this was a good learning experience for our team. You can't take any Big East team for granted, they are going to adjust to you after you play them the first time, and maybe it's time to stop getting happy with a big first half lead and continue to execute instead of routinely letting the other team come back from a huge deficit.
Vulnerability #1 is stopping the dribble (a drum I have been banging all year long). We often get away with our inability to stop the ball because the pressure defense creates enough problems for the other team brining the ball up the court, plus we get turnovers. Butler understood that once you survive that and get the ball over halfcourt, our guards are not good at stopping the ball on the drive, and they took full advantage of that.
Vulnerability #2 is post defense, which has been another long-term obvious issue. In games where we have to deal with a decent big, it usually manifests in the lack of a rim protector. In this game, it was a result of (1) the guards failing to stop the ball and (2) the lack of rotation when whoever was playing center had to come up to help. Butler beat us over and over and over by getting past the guards and when Josh or Moore came up to help, dropping the ball to a forward for an easy layup. Similarly it would be nice to recognize and stop a back door cut once in a while. All of these things - not stopping the ball, the lack of a good big man, the lack of understanding how to help and rotate in the paint - contribute to terrible post defense, and Butler took full advantage of that.
Vulnerability #3 is that when you play Posh and Dunn together, your guards are too short. There are some advantages that come from playing them together, but if the opposing team can handle the pressure then it is just too easy for a player like Thompson to use their length to score - especially if the other team is able to isolate and/or post up, which they did.
Vulnerability #4 is that as wonderful as Champagnie is, he still isn't a finished product. A lot of his game is the catch-and-shoot variety. He is getting better at creating some space to get his own shot off if the defender gives him too much room. If he has a lane he will take a runner. But he has not shown the ability to put the ball on the floor and beat a defender on a consistent basis, which makes it easier for other teams to minimize his presence than it should be. Butler understood that if you guard him closely on the perimeter then (a) SJU is not going to run plays to get him open off a screen; and (b) he isn't likely to put the ball on the deck and take it to you. Most of what we do to get him shots is ball rotation, and you can see him get visibly frustrated when the ball doesn't rotate his way. It might benefit SJU to run what Nova ran against us at least a dozen times, which is the pick-and-pop play on the perimeter - not infrequently both defenders stick to the ballhandler long enough for the pick/pop player to get an open 3 on the pass back.
Vulnerabiity #5 is youth, and there's not fix for that but time and experience. Posh has grown by leaps and bounds but he got schooled by a good senior last night who could handle the ball pressure and was taller than he was. Wusu tried to put the game on his shoulders and batted about .500 at it - as he develops his game and his understanding of the game the execution will improve.
FWIW there was nothing wrong with the inbounds play that caused OT, Wusu got the ball to Dunn and had Dunn corraled it and been fouled we probably would have won in regulation. Unfortunately the pass was a little low and Dunn just didn't handle it. Stuff happens.
All in all I thought this was a good learning experience for our team. You can't take any Big East team for granted, they are going to adjust to you after you play them the first time, and maybe it's time to stop getting happy with a big first half lead and continue to execute instead of routinely letting the other team come back from a huge deficit.
Greg is a great kid obviously and hampered by injuries a lot. That said, he is a Junior and to me a key piece on both ends of court. I would like to see him pick up more minutes if healthy at Cole's expense, who is struggling. Greg has to be able to score more (9ppg currently) and help defend strong wings, which does not come easy for Cole.
I thought Greg would be key guy this year along with Julian and Posh. Granted coming off a back injury takes time, but if ready to go, he really needs to become more of a factor as an upperclassmen and relatively skilled player.
This is not Cole hating nor impatience with Greg. Simply stated, if healthy, it seems important to get him into the rotation as key cog going down stretch. Let Cole relax, watch the game unwind and hopefully provide some perimeter productivity when called upon.
I thought Greg would be key guy this year along with Julian and Posh. Granted coming off a back injury takes time, but if ready to go, he really needs to become more of a factor as an upperclassmen and relatively skilled player.
This is not Cole hating nor impatience with Greg. Simply stated, if healthy, it seems important to get him into the rotation as key cog going down stretch. Let Cole relax, watch the game unwind and hopefully provide some perimeter productivity when called upon.
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Ray Morgan
Well-known member
Paultzman" post=419052 said:
Totally agree with Paultzman that Greg needs to get back into the starting lineup, playing the same kind of minutes Dunn & Posh are playing. I've been a big Cole supporter and still believe he can help us but he is better served at this point coming off the bench with Moore, Wusu & Earlington.
Xavier will be playing UCONN in a tough home game Saturday after a bit of a layoff and then have to come right back and play us in Queens on Tuesday. No reason we can't rebound from last night and knock them off. While Xavier had that 0 for whatever from three the first time we played, Champ (4-14) & Greg (3-12) had their worst shooting games of the year and Posh only played 17 minutes. However, getting beat 57-40 on the boards again won't get it done.
We're overdue to beat Xavier.
Xavier will be playing UCONN in a tough home game Saturday after a bit of a layoff and then have to come right back and play us in Queens on Tuesday. No reason we can't rebound from last night and knock them off. While Xavier had that 0 for whatever from three the first time we played, Champ (4-14) & Greg (3-12) had their worst shooting games of the year and Posh only played 17 minutes. However, getting beat 57-40 on the boards again won't get it done.
We're overdue to beat Xavier.
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A couple of things besides the game losing inbound pass with 8 seconds left , bear mention and are legitimate ones to consider . First , despite being a poor offensive threat , other than dunking the Ball , Robert's does hsve bona fide Shot Blocking skills . It's a wonder why he wasn't inserted into the game at some point since Butler was beating Dunn and Posh to the Rim . And , Moore could have been in the game more especially since Butler showed no ability to cover him for the Dunks that he scored on easily in the first half . Having Earlington in the game as Anderson went to a small lineup that Butler exposed at will . And , Wusu as the Inbounder on a crucial point and looking only at Dunn was a weak tactic . Cost the game . Even , with the 16 point lead collapse . Is Williams 100 percent yet ? His size and Defense would have helperd .