(POST GAME) (#8 / #10) Villanova (MSG) Tues. Jan. 28, 6:30p, FS-1 / 570 AM

[quote="Boo Harvey" post=374725][quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=374722]Not going to change the outcome of this game but we must look at playing Rutherford less minutes. He is an extreme liability on the offensive end of the court. He is not a great assist guy either. No scoring or No assists.Need to find more minutes for other players and give something up on the defensive end. He is a good kid who works hard, roots for his teammates and joined our program so I want him to succeed but sometimes change is necessary.[/quote]

To go back to Heron for a minute, what the heck? It’s one thing to have an off night or even a disappointing season. But how do you go from being a stud second tram all SEC performer to being a total non-factor. Is he hurt? What’s wrong with him? When Figueroa has a poor game, it looks like he’s forcing things, but still has talent. Heron looks like a one-dimensional spit up shooter on his best nights.

On the positive side, Dunn has really been a please surprise. If he could get himself to be a 33 percent three point shooter next year (not unrealistic), he could have a nice senior season.[/quote]
Heron, unfortunately, is solely a spot up shooter. He can’t drive, can’t shoot off the dribble and doesn’t work to get free. I watched him tonight and he consistently sits in the corner waiting for the ball. If you watch Markus Howard, he runs all over the court, navigating traffic to get open, not the case with Heron.

An alpha dog demands the ball and goes and gets it.
 
[quote="Eric Williamson" post=374747][quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=374722]Not going to change the outcome of this game but we must look at playing Rutherford less minutes. He is an extreme liability on the offensive end of the court. He is not a great assist guy either. No scoring or No assists.Need to find more minutes for other players and give something up on the defensive end. He is a good kid who works hard, roots for his teammates and joined our program so I want him to succeed but sometimes change is necessary.[/quote]

He's averaging 4.9ppg on five shots per game....not sure what more you expect from the 6th or 7th option on offense.[/quote]

I know this staff stresses, and likes to reward, effort and hard work, but they may take it too far WRT Rutherford. All he brings is effort, and hard work. It's become, IMO, similar to Jarvis and company giving all of that time to Andre Stanley, simply because they liked his practice habits.

That 4.9 average includes the Butler game, where he somehow managed to score 15 points. I have no idea how he did that. Villanova was giving him the wide open layup tonight, and he was missing it, for the most part. Good kid, but IMO, he's a taller, and better defensive version of Mo Brown (for those of you who remember - it was usually 4 on 5 when he was on the court, too).

Seems like a good kid (his profile on Red Storm Report this past week was nicely done), but if we're going to lose, I'd rather see some of the underclassman get more time, since Rutherford is not a part of this team's future.
 
[quote="billthetruth" post=374736][quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=374734][quote="billthetruth" post=374728][quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=374722]Not going to change the outcome of this game but we must look at playing Rutherford less minutes. He is an extreme liability on the offensive end of the court. He is not a great assist guy either. No scoring or No assists.Need to find more minutes for other players and give something up on the defensive end. He is a good kid who works hard, roots for his teammates and joined our program so I want him to succeed but sometimes change is necessary.[/quote]

Paging Mr. Posh. Please report to the corner of Utopia and Union ASAP[/quote]

in the meantime find more minutes for Williams, JC and Caraher. Mr Posh hope he fills it up.[/quote]

Alexander will be this generations Erick Barkley.

A tough NYC PG that will put in motion the culture change needed to end the losing mentality that has permeated this program for 20 years[/quote]
Coincidentally, believe I saw Barkley at the game
 
[quote="Enright" post=374737]As far as the very few foul shots SJU gets it seemed in a few games prior to De Paul the opposition will never foul our shooters. They not only won't contest any outside shots but seemed to try to avoid fouling on any shots putting SJU on the foul line. Until we show some ability to hit some shots that strategy will continue.
What has really become disappointing is the play of Roberts and Williams. I blamed Mullin for not giving them more playing time last year but now I can see why. No production.[/quote]
Think about it, only guy with ability to drive is Dunn. So, we aren’t going to draw a lot of fouls
 
Better players. Period. Nova impresses me. You’re not gonna win anything with no LJ and Heron though. Especially against Nova.
 
[quote="SJU61982" post=374753][quote="Eric Williamson" post=374747][quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=374722]Not going to change the outcome of this game but we must look at playing Rutherford less minutes. He is an extreme liability on the offensive end of the court. He is not a great assist guy either. No scoring or No assists.Need to find more minutes for other players and give something up on the defensive end. He is a good kid who works hard, roots for his teammates and joined our program so I want him to succeed but sometimes change is necessary.[/quote]

He's averaging 4.9ppg on five shots per game....not sure what more you expect from the 6th or 7th option on offense.[/quote]

I know this staff stresses, and likes to reward, effort and hard work, but they may take it too far WRT Rutherford. All he brings is effort, and hard work. It's become, IMO, similar to Jarvis and company giving all of that time to Andre Stanley, simply because they liked his practice habits.

That 4.9 average includes the Butler game, where he somehow managed to score 15 points. I have no idea how he did that. Villanova was giving him the wide open layup tonight, and he was missing it, for the most part. Good kid, but IMO, he's a taller, and better defensive version of Mo Brown (for those of you who remember - it was usually 4 on 5 when he was on the court, too).

Seems like a good kid (his profile on Red Storm Report this past week was nicely done), but if we're going to lose, I'd rather see some of the underclassman get more time, since Rutherford is not a part of this team's future.[/quote]

that is part of the problem he only takes 5 shots per game given the number of minutes he plays. Additionally, he is no 3 point threat and therefore kills court spacing in half court offense.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=374743]I spoke to one of our brethren less than a week ago, and he said he'd rather move on from practically the entire team with the exception of two or three players.[/quote]
Dink....who would rather move on? CMA or the person you were speaking to?
 
[quote="Eric Williamson" post=374747][quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=374722]Not going to change the outcome of this game but we must look at playing Rutherford less minutes. He is an extreme liability on the offensive end of the court. He is not a great assist guy either. No scoring or No assists.Need to find more minutes for other players and give something up on the defensive end. He is a good kid who works hard, roots for his teammates and joined our program so I want him to succeed but sometimes change is necessary.[/quote]

He's averaging 4.9ppg on five shots per game....not sure what more you expect from the 6th or 7th option on offense.[/quote]
He is an elite defender, as is Dunn, but he is a zero on offense and don’t think it is far fetched to say that he probably shoots less than 40% on layups. His missed layup when we were down 8 was the nail in the coffin.

If CMA were given unlimited TOs, he would have to sub him out on every possession.
 
[quote="RyGuyRedStorm" post=374749]Was at the game tonight. Tough one.

Dunn came to play.

LJ was doing his best to make plays but he’s trying to do too much as the sole main offensive weapon with the season Heron is having.

What happened to the low post back you down guard we had last year in heron? He was dunking a ton more last year then this year. When have we seen that aggression this year? The loss of weight has seemed to change his game and it’s not for the better.

Still don’t like the Dunn / Rutherford lineup.

Where the hell is Steere already?

Champagne played really poorly tonight and truly lacked effort. Several times just staring at the ball in the air instead of rebounding. What is his 3 pt percentage? His game seems to be getting further away from the basket and I hope that doesn’t continue.[/quote]
Champagnie should not be allowed to shoot beyond 8-10 feet. Don’t remember the last time he hit an outside shot. Needs major work on his form. That said, he is a keeper but must work hard at overcoming his weaknesses.
 
[quote="Section3" post=374759][quote="MJDinkins" post=374743]I spoke to one of our brethren less than a week ago, and he said he'd rather move on from practically the entire team with the exception of two or three players.[/quote]
Dink....who would rather move on? CMA or the person you were speaking to?[/quote]

I never mentioned anything about Anderson leaving. Neither did the St. John's fan who I occasionally converse with. He said (paraphrased), "There's only two or three players worth keeping."

I don't think I'd go as far as that particular fan, but I do think there are about 3 or 4 current players that are better off elsewhere. I'll just leave it at that as I don't particularly like getting into naming personnel.
 
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[quote="MJDinkins" post=374763][quote="Section3" post=374759][quote="MJDinkins" post=374743]I spoke to one of our brethren less than a week ago, and he said he'd rather move on from practically the entire team with the exception of two or three players.[/quote]
Dink....who would rather move on? CMA or the person you were speaking to?[/quote]

I never mentioned anything about Anderson leaving. Neither did the St. John's fan who I occasionally converse with. He said (paraphrased), "There's only two or three players worth keeping."

I don't think I'd go as far as that particular fan, but I do think there are about 3 or 4 current players that are better off elsewhere. I'll just it at that as I don't particularly like getting into naming personnel.[/quote]that is what I meant,..wasn’t sure if you meant that CMA wanted to move on from all but 3 players...but see how my wording wasn’t clear...
 
[quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=374758][quote="SJU61982" post=374753][quote="Eric Williamson" post=374747][quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=374722]Not going to change the outcome of this game but we must look at playing Rutherford less minutes. He is an extreme liability on the offensive end of the court. He is not a great assist guy either. No scoring or No assists.Need to find more minutes for other players and give something up on the defensive end. He is a good kid who works hard, roots for his teammates and joined our program so I want him to succeed but sometimes change is necessary.[/quote]

He's averaging 4.9ppg on five shots per game....not sure what more you expect from the 6th or 7th option on offense.[/quote]

I know this staff stresses, and likes to reward, effort and hard work, but they may take it too far WRT Rutherford. All he brings is effort, and hard work. It's become, IMO, similar to Jarvis and company giving all of that time to Andre Stanley, simply because they liked his practice habits.

That 4.9 average includes the Butler game, where he somehow managed to score 15 points. I have no idea how he did that. Villanova was giving him the wide open layup tonight, and he was missing it, for the most part. Good kid, but IMO, he's a taller, and better defensive version of Mo Brown (for those of you who remember - it was usually 4 on 5 when he was on the court, too).

Seems like a good kid (his profile on Red Storm Report this past week was nicely done), but if we're going to lose, I'd rather see some of the underclassman get more time, since Rutherford is not a part of this team's future.[/quote]

that is part of the problem he only takes 5 shots per game given the number of minutes he plays. Additionally, he is no 3 point threat and therefore kills court spacing in half court offense.[/quote]

No, the problem is that he actually does take 5 shots a game, which is about 5 too many, IMO. He's probably the first guy we've ever had who I'd rather see pass into double coverage, then shoot from just about anywhere (except from the FT line, where he has actually been pretty good).
 
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No more back door cuts! Please! Aka"I'm going to run toward the basket and you throw the ball to the other team" Good grief.

Love the look of disbelief on Champagnie's face every time he stands there and watches someone drain a three. Yes Julian, he did it, again!

Coach should take some heat on how bad this one was as well. 2-3 zone with Dunn and Williams down low? Where was Roberts in the second half? Maybe change the defense after they run the same play over and over for the easy 3 out of the corner. Maybe bench LJ after he heaves up a 35 footer? Would it have hurt to play Steere the last 5 minutes?

Now to the comedy portion of the show, Sears, on 2 consecutive 5 foot shots, caught all backboard, no rim. Forget bricks, they were concrete blocks, made me yearn for the days of Yakwe and Sima.
 
[quote="Section3" post=374752][quote="Boo Harvey" post=374725][quote="RJGBOOTSY" post=374722]Not going to change the outcome of this game but we must look at playing Rutherford less minutes. He is an extreme liability on the offensive end of the court. He is not a great assist guy either. No scoring or No assists.Need to find more minutes for other players and give something up on the defensive end. He is a good kid who works hard, roots for his teammates and joined our program so I want him to succeed but sometimes change is necessary.[/quote]

To go back to Heron for a minute, what the heck? It’s one thing to have an off night or even a disappointing season. But how do you go from being a stud second tram all SEC performer to being a total non-factor. Is he hurt? What’s wrong with him? When Figueroa has a poor game, it looks like he’s forcing things, but still has talent. Heron looks like a one-dimensional spit up shooter on his best nights.

On the positive side, Dunn has really been a please surprise. If he could get himself to be a 33 percent three point shooter next year (not unrealistic), he could have a nice senior season.[/quote]
Heron, unfortunately, is solely a spot up shooter. He can’t drive, can’t shoot off the dribble and doesn’t work to get free. I watched him tonight and he consistently sits in the corner waiting for the ball. If you watch Markus Howard, he runs all over the court, navigating traffic to get open, not the case with Heron.

An alpha dog demands the ball and goes and gets it.[/quote]

After tonight I don't even want to hear about Heron, LJ might struggle but he finds a way to get 11-12pnts, Heron just shoots, if he isn't hitting, then tonight is what you get. 3 lousy points.
 
I am not sure Heron is 100% healthy. To me, his gait looks altered and he doesn't seem to have any lift.
 
[quote="Ken Shark" post=374766]No more back door cuts! Please! Aka"I'm going to run toward the basket and you throw the ball to the other team" Good grief.

Love the look of disbelief on Champagnie's face every time he stands there and watches someone drain a three. Yes Julian, he did it, again!

Coach should take some heat on how bad this one was as well. 2-3 zone with Dunn and Williams down low? Where was Roberts in the second half? Maybe change the defense after they run the same play over and over for the easy 3 out of the corner. Maybe bench LJ after he heaves up a 35 footer? Would it have hurt to play Steere the last 5 minutes?

Now to the comedy portion of the show, Sears, on 2 consecutive 5 foot shots, caught all backboard, no rim. Forget bricks, they were concrete blocks, made me yearn for the days of Yakwe and Sima.[/quote] think you are overlooking the positive...they were actually very soft 10 footers from 2 feet.
 
[quote="JohnnyFan" post=374768]I am not sure Heron is 100% healthy. To me, his gait looks altered and he doesn't seem to have any lift.[/quote]
Unfortunately, I think what you see is what you get. A good complementary player but not an alpha. Ponds, with few exceptions, would always find ways to score even on off nights. He was an alpha.
 
I am not sure whether posters appreciate just how much this team lacks overall Big East talent and depth. It is easy to arm-chair criticize missed shots and player error but in the end well coached talent (see Villanova) beats well coached hustle (see StJ’s).

For example, above posters complain about Nick Rutherford’s performances. Not to single out Nick but he is an example of someone who is playing in a league that is above his skills. Last season at Monmouth he was not a regular starter, starting 15 games of Monmouth’s 35 games. He averaged 5.3 points per game against far less talent than this season.

I am not posting this to demean Nick Rutherford who I am told is a great kid but the fact is he is the best St. John’s has at the moment . It is not Nick’s fault, nor is is CMA’s failure that Mr. Mullin’s departure left the roster bare and made CMA scramble to even fill a roster.

How many players on this St. John’s roster would start on other Big East teams ? Not many, but to their credit they play hard and hustle.

The reality is that this team’s results exceed the sum of its parts.

As a StJohn’s fan I have learned to stay optimistic about the always promising “next year” which more times than not also disappoints. Keep hope alive.
 
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