Ponds - 1st NBA game

Monte - Ponds was a 2X All Big East 1st Team , and Freshman All Big East Team.

He might have not maximized potential, limited physically etc., missed in a few big spots to shine,  but he was more than a "very good" player for us. He was a star.

If Rasheem Dunn is good to you, then Ponds was clearly great.

5th all-time leading scorer (7th per game), 6th in assists (9th per game), 2nd in steals (3rd per game), 2nd in 3pt made, 2nd in FT%  1st in player efficiency rating, 6th in effective Fg%, 6th true shooting %, all in 3 seasons, not the full 4.

He was on pace, and just might have  eclipsed Mullin as all-time leader in points scored, or Sealy for #2 spot with a final year.

[URL]https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-johns-ny/leaders-and-records-career.html[/URL]

Let's not forget the electric he brought to a broken team with some huge games we all raved about. He singlehandedly made this team watchable when there was little confidence in the beloved Mullin to steer the ship. If Ponds didn't come here and bear the load, Mullin would have been an even bigger disaster. 

 
 
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Wow! I'm surprised there is so much negative about Shamorie . He doesn't deserve it . He was our Best Player for the 3 years here and for most of it , played with players who weren't at his talent level . Simon was a very good 4 tool player but , a train wreck as a shooter . He was pretty easily defensed by opponents . Great kid , great defender , rebounder , jump out of the building but , missed a awful lot of easy shots . Clark , also great team player but , very streaky shooter . When he was good , he was very ,very good but , had a lot of 2-14 shooting days too . And , fouled out a lot . Thus , the Scoring load and playmaking role fell to Ponds , who every one defended aggtesively . Ponds was certainly a All BE player and almost won ROY in hhs first season and was BE Pre Season POY his last year .  Not to include him among the top players here , is just not fair .  I'm only speculating but , if Ponds options were to play Overseas in a Pandemic year , it might be more a risk than worth it . Just saying ..  I think Mullin , Richmond , St Jean coached Ponds to the fullest extent . Picking on his weight and perceived lack of work ethic demean a player who left it all in the Court every game .  He earned his spot on our Wall of Honor and certainly among the top 5 players of the last 15 -20 years . Maybe even the best Player of the last  20 years . 
 
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SLYFOXX1968" post=420628 said:
Wow! I'm surprised there is so much negative about Shamorie . He doesn't deserve it . He was our Best Player for the 3 years here and for most of it , played with players who weren't at his talent level . Simon was a very good 4 tool player but , a train wreck as a shooter . He was pretty easily defensed by opponents . Great kid , great defender , rebounder , jump out of the building but , missed a awful lot of easy shots . Clark , also great team player but , very streaky shooter . When he was good , he was very ,very good but , had a lot of 2-14 shooting days too . And , fouled out a lot . Thus , the Scoring load and playmaking role fell to Ponds , who every one defended aggtesively . Ponds was certainly a All BE player and almost won ROY in hhs first season and was BE Pre Season POY his last year .  Not to include him among the top players here , is just not fair .  I'm only speculating but , if Ponds options were to play Overseas in a Pandemic year , it might be more a risk than worth it . Just saying ..  I think Mullin , Richmond , St Jean coached Ponds to the fullest extent . Picking on his weight and perceived lack of work ethic demean a player who left it all in the Court every game .  He earned his spot on our Wall of Honor and certainly among the top 5 players of the last 15 -20 years . Maybe even the best Player of the last  20 years . 
Good post.  You have a better memory than many.   He was also NYC HS player of the year and the first top player to commit for Mullin in my recollection.
 
RedStormNC" post=420626 said:
Monte - Ponds was a 2X All Big East 1st Team , and Freshman All Big East Team.

He might have not maximized potential, limited physically etc., missed in a few big spots to shine,  but he was more than a "very good" player for us. He was a star.

If Rasheem Dunn is good to you, then Ponds was clearly great.

5th all-time leading scorer (7th per game), 6th in assists (9th per game), 2nd in steals (3rd per game), 2nd in 3pt made, 2nd in FT%  1st in player efficiency rating, 6th in effective Fg%, 6th true shooting %, all in 3 seasons, not the full 4.

He was on pace, and just might have  eclipsed Mullin as all-time leader in points scored, or Sealy for #2 spot with a final year.

[URL]https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-johns-ny/leaders-and-records-career.html[/URL]

Let's not forget the electric he brought to a broken team with some huge games we all raved about. He singlehandedly made this team watchable when there was little confidence in the beloved Mullin to steer the ship. If Ponds didn't come here and bear the load, Mullin would have been an even bigger disaster. 

Not sure what Dunn has to do with this, other then they played in the same high school back court. But as long as you brought his name up, Dunn has busted his ass to be the best player he could possibly be. That's really all you can ask from a kid. Shamorie was all the things you say he was, but IMO falls very short of Tony Jackson, Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, Mark Jackson, Malik Sealy, etc etc etc. When talking about the faces on the Mount Rushmore ot SJU ball, Shamorie doesn't merit consideration IMO. He was a volume scorer, and  a very good one at that, but that does not make a great ballplayer. Not taking anything away from his very good and exciting 3 years here, just saying that IMO he is not one of the all time greats. 
 
Monte" post=420640 said:
RedStormNC" post=420626 said:
Monte - Ponds was a 2X All Big East 1st Team , and Freshman All Big East Team.

He might have not maximized potential, limited physically etc., missed in a few big spots to shine,  but he was more than a "very good" player for us. He was a star.

If Rasheem Dunn is good to you, then Ponds was clearly great.

5th all-time leading scorer (7th per game), 6th in assists (9th per game), 2nd in steals (3rd per game), 2nd in 3pt made, 2nd in FT%  1st in player efficiency rating, 6th in effective Fg%, 6th true shooting %, all in 3 seasons, not the full 4.

He was on pace, and just might have  eclipsed Mullin as all-time leader in points scored, or Sealy for #2 spot with a final year.

[URL]https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-johns-ny/leaders-and-records-career.html[/URL]

Let's not forget the electric he brought to a broken team with some huge games we all raved about. He singlehandedly made this team watchable when there was little confidence in the beloved Mullin to steer the ship. If Ponds didn't come here and bear the load, Mullin would have been an even bigger disaster. 

Not sure what Dunn has to do with this, other then they played in the same high school back court. But as long as you brought his name up, Dunn has busted his ass to be the best player he could possibly be. That's really all you can ask from a kid. Shamorie was all the things you say he was, but IMO falls very short of Tony Jackson, Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, Mark Jackson, Malik Sealy, etc etc etc. When talking about the faces on the Mount Rushmore ot SJU ball, Shamorie doesn't merit consideration IMO. He was a volume scorer, and  a very good one at that, but that does not make a great ballplayer. Not taking anything away from his very good and exciting 3 years here, just saying that IMO he is not one of the all time greats. 
----
What you said is true. But he was the best player for us in the last 20 years.

 
 
richard A Steinfeld" post=420641 said:
Monte" post=420640 said:
RedStormNC" post=420626 said:
Monte - Ponds was a 2X All Big East 1st Team , and Freshman All Big East Team.

He might have not maximized potential, limited physically etc., missed in a few big spots to shine,  but he was more than a "very good" player for us. He was a star.

If Rasheem Dunn is good to you, then Ponds was clearly great.

5th all-time leading scorer (7th per game), 6th in assists (9th per game), 2nd in steals (3rd per game), 2nd in 3pt made, 2nd in FT%  1st in player efficiency rating, 6th in effective Fg%, 6th true shooting %, all in 3 seasons, not the full 4.

He was on pace, and just might have  eclipsed Mullin as all-time leader in points scored, or Sealy for #2 spot with a final year.

[URL]https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/schools/st-johns-ny/leaders-and-records-career.html[/URL]

Let's not forget the electric he brought to a broken team with some huge games we all raved about. He singlehandedly made this team watchable when there was little confidence in the beloved Mullin to steer the ship. If Ponds didn't come here and bear the load, Mullin would have been an even bigger disaster. 

Not sure what Dunn has to do with this, other then they played in the same high school back court. But as long as you brought his name up, Dunn has busted his ass to be the best player he could possibly be. That's really all you can ask from a kid. Shamorie was all the things you say he was, but IMO falls very short of Tony Jackson, Chris Mullin, Walter Berry, Mark Jackson, Malik Sealy, etc etc etc. When talking about the faces on the Mount Rushmore ot SJU ball, Shamorie doesn't merit consideration IMO. He was a volume scorer, and  a very good one at that, but that does not make a great ballplayer. Not taking anything away from his very good and exciting 3 years here, just saying that IMO he is not one of the all time greats. 
----
What you said is true. But he was the best player for us in the last 20 years.

No arquement there. Although if I were picking a team from years 2000-2019, Marcus Hatten would be my first pick. 
 
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Mullin , Berry , Tony Jackson, Mark Jackson and Malik Sealy , Sonny Dove , Reggie Carter were All American Players of the last 50 -60 years . Mark might have been Honorable Mention . These are top of the tier Players . Right behind would be George Johnson , Mel Davis , Felipe Lopez . Ponds is in that tier . I have not included Players that were in that category but , didn't play 4 years . Artest , Barkley, Hatten . I'm
sure I might have forgotten a few of the old timers. But , this is a pretty good Group . So , yes Shamorie is breathing in the rarefied Air of St John's greats . Berry only played 2 years here but   , no one would doubt his stature among Redmen Legends . 
 
SLYFOXX1968" post=420648 said:
 Berry only played 2 years here but   , no one would doubt his stature among Redmen Legends . 
No doubt Sly, Walter was "The Truth" way before Paul Pierce.
 
IMO any list of all time SJU greats start and end here. Anyone else is purely subjective. 

[attachment=1941]DB5BE4AC-DF45-4A4B-8509-A2550B71FFD6.jpeg[/attachment]
 
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SLYFOXX1968" post=420628 said:
Wow! I'm surprised there is so much negative about Shamorie . He doesn't deserve it . He was our Best Player for the 3 years here and for most of it , played with players who weren't at his talent level . Simon was a very good 4 tool player but , a train wreck as a shooter . He was pretty easily defensed by opponents . Great kid , great defender , rebounder , jump out of the building but , missed a awful lot of easy shots . Clark , also great team player but , very streaky shooter . When he was good , he was very ,very good but , had a lot of 2-14 shooting days too . And , fouled out a lot . Thus , the Scoring load and playmaking role fell to Ponds , who every one defended aggtesively . Ponds was certainly a All BE player and almost won ROY in hhs first season and was BE Pre Season POY his last year .  Not to include him among the top players here , is just not fair .  I'm only speculating but , if Ponds options were to play Overseas in a Pandemic year , it might be more a risk than worth it . Just saying ..  I think Mullin , Richmond , St Jean coached Ponds to the fullest extent . Picking on his weight and perceived lack of work ethic demean a player who left it all in the Court every game .  He earned his spot on our Wall of Honor and certainly among the top 5 players of the last 15 -20 years . Maybe even the best Player of the last  20 years . 
You are surprised but I am not. Just look at the history of our fan base over the last 40 years we love players who work their buts off to improve their game.  Be it Chris Mullin, Marc Jackson , Jayson Williams, Ron Artest, Matt Brust , Tyrone Grant, D Harrison , Posh Alexander, Dylan Wusu and I could go on and on. That is what this fan base appreciates first and foremost. 
Shamorie just does not fit into that group. He was not in great shape, did not work overly hard in the off season and was preoccupied with his Instagram posts. He lacked the humility of the players I named and the many others who I failed to list as my point had been made. 
As for teammates who were not at his talent level it has been a long time since we had a team of top 50 players. However, he was surrounded by some very good talent. Tariq has had a sniff or two in the league, Simon was a top 30 player coming out of high school, Clark top 50, Bashir a jc aa , Lovett top 100, so to say he did not have good talent around him is just false. His teams certainly lacked a good bench. 
Was he a volume scorer on a mediocre team he certainly was. Was he one of our best players over the last 20 years he certainly was, but to characterize him with Malik, Walter, Ron A, Sonny Dove, Chris, Tony J, just to name a few, does not hold water with me. 
 
redmannorth" post=420655 said:
SLYFOXX1968" post=420628 said:
Wow! I'm surprised there is so much negative about Shamorie . He doesn't deserve it . He was our Best Player for the 3 years here and for most of it , played with players who weren't at his talent level . Simon was a very good 4 tool player but , a train wreck as a shooter . He was pretty easily defensed by opponents . Great kid , great defender , rebounder , jump out of the building but , missed a awful lot of easy shots . Clark , also great team player but , very streaky shooter . When he was good , he was very ,very good but , had a lot of 2-14 shooting days too . And , fouled out a lot . Thus , the Scoring load and playmaking role fell to Ponds , who every one defended aggtesively . Ponds was certainly a All BE player and almost won ROY in hhs first season and was BE Pre Season POY his last year .  Not to include him among the top players here , is just not fair .  I'm only speculating but , if Ponds options were to play Overseas in a Pandemic year , it might be more a risk than worth it . Just saying ..  I think Mullin , Richmond , St Jean coached Ponds to the fullest extent . Picking on his weight and perceived lack of work ethic demean a player who left it all in the Court every game .  He earned his spot on our Wall of Honor and certainly among the top 5 players of the last 15 -20 years . Maybe even the best Player of the last  20 years . 
You are surprised but I am not. Just look at the history of our fan base over the last 40 years we love players who work their buts off to improve their game.  Be it Chris Mullin, Marc Jackson , Jayson Williams, Ron Artest, Matt Brust , Tyrone Grant, D Harrison , Posh Alexander, Dylan Wusu and I could go on and on. That is what this fan base appreciates first and foremost. 
Shamorie just does not fit into that group. He was not in great shape, did not work overly hard in the off season and was preoccupied with his Instagram posts. He lacked the humility of the players I named and the many others who I failed to list as my point had been made. 
As for teammates who were not at his talent level it has been a long time since we had a team of top 50 players. However, he was surrounded by some very good talent. Tariq has had a sniff or two in the league, Simon was a top 30 player coming out of high school, Clark top 50, Bashir a jc aa , Lovett top 100, so to say he did not have good talent around him is just false. His teams certainly lacked a good bench. 
Was he a volume scorer on a mediocre team he certainly was. Was he one of our best players over the last 20 years he certainly was, but to characterize him with Malik, Walter, Ron A, Sonny Dove, Chris, Tony J, just to name a few, does not hold water with me. 

Perfectly said RMN
 
 
I guess it's all subjective how you define "all time greats". If you're going to say we only have 10 all time greats in the programs history, then sure Shamorie won't be on the list. But to me, he's one of the greatest scorers in program history which is proven by his play and the stats, and deserves to be recognized as such. 
 
redmannorth" post=420655 said:
SLYFOXX1968" post=420628 said:
Wow! I'm surprised there is so much negative about Shamorie . He doesn't deserve it . He was our Best Player for the 3 years here and for most of it , played with players who weren't at his talent level . Simon was a very good 4 tool player but , a train wreck as a shooter . He was pretty easily defensed by opponents . Great kid , great defender , rebounder , jump out of the building but , missed a awful lot of easy shots . Clark , also great team player but , very streaky shooter . When he was good , he was very ,very good but , had a lot of 2-14 shooting days too . And , fouled out a lot . Thus , the Scoring load and playmaking role fell to Ponds , who every one defended aggtesively . Ponds was certainly a All BE player and almost won ROY in hhs first season and was BE Pre Season POY his last year .  Not to include him among the top players here , is just not fair .  I'm only speculating but , if Ponds options were to play Overseas in a Pandemic year , it might be more a risk than worth it . Just saying ..  I think Mullin , Richmond , St Jean coached Ponds to the fullest extent . Picking on his weight and perceived lack of work ethic demean a player who left it all in the Court every game .  He earned his spot on our Wall of Honor and certainly among the top 5 players of the last 15 -20 years . Maybe even the best Player of the last  20 years . 
You are surprised but I am not. Just look at the history of our fan base over the last 40 years we love players who work their buts off to improve their game.  Be it Chris Mullin, Marc Jackson , Jayson Williams, Ron Artest, Matt Brust , Tyrone Grant, D Harrison , Posh Alexander, Dylan Wusu and I could go on and on. That is what this fan base appreciates first and foremost. 
Shamorie just does not fit into that group. He was not in great shape, did not work overly hard in the off season and was preoccupied with his Instagram posts. He lacked the humility of the players I named and the many others who I failed to list as my point had been made. 
As for teammates who were not at his talent level it has been a long time since we had a team of top 50 players. However, he was surrounded by some very good talent. Tariq has had a sniff or two in the league, Simon was a top 30 player coming out of high school, Clark top 50, Bashir a jc aa , Lovett top 100, so to say he did not have good talent around him is just false. His teams certainly lacked a good bench. 
Was he a volume scorer on a mediocre team he certainly was. Was he one of our best players over the last 20 years he certainly was, but to characterize him with Malik, Walter, Ron A, Sonny Dove, Chris, Tony J, just to name a few, does not hold water with me. 
What he accomplished, I would agree with you.   I just never heard  him being criticized by those close to the program in the manner that he has been criticized here.   Was he an elite player compared to our all time greats.  I can't comment on guys I never saw.   Alan Seiden was a smart ass who basically annoyed himself out of the league for the St. Louis Hawks,  You'd have to be almost 80 to remember Tony Jackson.   I missed Sonny Dove amd never saw Mel Davis as a collegiate player.    

But to be completely fair, Ponds came here with zero supporting cast with a roster that has zero sustainability.   What pisses me about the NR compliments about handing Lavin an NCAA team, was that he couldn't win with a better roster (Anthony Mason Jr) the year before, and it was a messed up roster of all seniors.   By Jordan and Obekpa leaving Mullin started from ground zero.   Shamorie came in year two and he and Lovett were the catalysts towards program resurgence, which is no easy task as we have seen this year.   Had Lovett not left, it's possible, Ponds may have seen the NCAA tournament in 3 years.   He was definitely the recipient of thin rosters and virtually no front line.   I would have liked to have seen him with a solid supporting cast around him.  The closest we came was his junior year, and those around him (Heron, Clarke, Simons) performed so inconsistently, he tried to carry a burden that makes almost any player ineffective.

It's a fun discussion, but I'm not very big on characterizing any player as lazy or out of shape, especially because I am both.,    /media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png
 
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We've had dozens of very good ball players here. We've had a hand full of all time greats. 
 
Room112" post=420657 said:
I guess it's all subjective how you define "all time greats". If you're going to say we only have 10 all time greats in the programs history, then sure Shamorie won't be on the list. But to me, he's one of the greatest scorers in program history which is proven by his play and the stats, and deserves to be recognized as such. 

There were times when Shamorie's volume shooting carried us to victory, and there times when it cost us games. Chris could have scored 40 points per  game if he had Shamorie's lack of conscience and there was a 3 point line. 

 
 
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Beast of the East" post=420658 said:
redmannorth" post=420655 said:
SLYFOXX1968" post=420628 said:
Wow! I'm surprised there is so much negative about Shamorie . He doesn't deserve it . He was our Best Player for the 3 years here and for most of it , played with players who weren't at his talent level . Simon was a very good 4 tool player but , a train wreck as a shooter . He was pretty easily defensed by opponents . Great kid , great defender , rebounder , jump out of the building but , missed a awful lot of easy shots . Clark , also great team player but , very streaky shooter . When he was good , he was very ,very good but , had a lot of 2-14 shooting days too . And , fouled out a lot . Thus , the Scoring load and playmaking role fell to Ponds , who every one defended aggtesively . Ponds was certainly a All BE player and almost won ROY in hhs first season and was BE Pre Season POY his last year .  Not to include him among the top players here , is just not fair .  I'm only speculating but , if Ponds options were to play Overseas in a Pandemic year , it might be more a risk than worth it . Just saying ..  I think Mullin , Richmond , St Jean coached Ponds to the fullest extent . Picking on his weight and perceived lack of work ethic demean a player who left it all in the Court every game .  He earned his spot on our Wall of Honor and certainly among the top 5 players of the last 15 -20 years . Maybe even the best Player of the last  20 years . 
You are surprised but I am not. Just look at the history of our fan base over the last 40 years we love players who work their buts off to improve their game.  Be it Chris Mullin, Marc Jackson , Jayson Williams, Ron Artest, Matt Brust , Tyrone Grant, D Harrison , Posh Alexander, Dylan Wusu and I could go on and on. That is what this fan base appreciates first and foremost. 
Shamorie just does not fit into that group. He was not in great shape, did not work overly hard in the off season and was preoccupied with his Instagram posts. He lacked the humility of the players I named and the many others who I failed to list as my point had been made. 
As for teammates who were not at his talent level it has been a long time since we had a team of top 50 players. However, he was surrounded by some very good talent. Tariq has had a sniff or two in the league, Simon was a top 30 player coming out of high school, Clark top 50, Bashir a jc aa , Lovett top 100, so to say he did not have good talent around him is just false. His teams certainly lacked a good bench. 
Was he a volume scorer on a mediocre team he certainly was. Was he one of our best players over the last 20 years he certainly was, but to characterize him with Malik, Walter, Ron A, Sonny Dove, Chris, Tony J, just to name a few, does not hold water with me. 
What he accomplished, I would agree with you.   I just never heard  him being criticized by those close to the program in the manner that he has been criticized here.   Was he an elite player compared to our all time greats.  I can't comment on guys I never saw.   Alan Seiden was a smart ass who basically annoyed himself out of the league for the St. Louis Hawks,  You'd have to be almost 80 to remember Tony Jackson.   I missed Sonny Dove amd never saw Mel Davis as a collegiate player.    

But to be completely fair, Ponds came here with zero supporting cast with a roster that has zero sustainability.   What pisses me about the NR compliments about handing Lavin an NCAA team, was that he couldn't win with a better roster (Anthony Mason Jr) the year before, and it was a messed up roster of all seniors.   By Jordan and Obekpa leaving Mullin started from ground zero.   Shamorie came in year two and he and Lovett were the catalysts towards program resurgence, which is no easy task as we have seen this year.   Had Lovett not left, it's possible, Ponds may have seen the NCAA tournament in 3 years.   He was definitely the recipient of thin rosters and virtually no front line.   I would have liked to have seen him with a solid supporting cast around him.  The closest we came was his junior year, and those around him (Heron, Clarke, Simons) performed so inconsistently, he tried to carry a burden that makes almost any player ineffective.

It's a fun discussion, but I'm not very big on characterizing any player as lazy or out of shape, especially because I am both.,    /media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png

Yeah,  but I'll bet you wouldn't be(lazy and out of shape) if someone were dangling a multimillion dollar pro contract in front of you /media/kunena/emoticons/wink.png
 
 
Monte" post=420662 said:
Beast of the East" post=420658 said:
redmannorth" post=420655 said:
SLYFOXX1968" post=420628 said:
Wow! I'm surprised there is so much negative about Shamorie . He doesn't deserve it . He was our Best Player for the 3 years here and for most of it , played with players who weren't at his talent level . Simon was a very good 4 tool player but , a train wreck as a shooter . He was pretty easily defensed by opponents . Great kid , great defender , rebounder , jump out of the building but , missed a awful lot of easy shots . Clark , also great team player but , very streaky shooter . When he was good , he was very ,very good but , had a lot of 2-14 shooting days too . And , fouled out a lot . Thus , the Scoring load and playmaking role fell to Ponds , who every one defended aggtesively . Ponds was certainly a All BE player and almost won ROY in hhs first season and was BE Pre Season POY his last year .  Not to include him among the top players here , is just not fair .  I'm only speculating but , if Ponds options were to play Overseas in a Pandemic year , it might be more a risk than worth it . Just saying ..  I think Mullin , Richmond , St Jean coached Ponds to the fullest extent . Picking on his weight and perceived lack of work ethic demean a player who left it all in the Court every game .  He earned his spot on our Wall of Honor and certainly among the top 5 players of the last 15 -20 years . Maybe even the best Player of the last  20 years . 
You are surprised but I am not. Just look at the history of our fan base over the last 40 years we love players who work their buts off to improve their game.  Be it Chris Mullin, Marc Jackson , Jayson Williams, Ron Artest, Matt Brust , Tyrone Grant, D Harrison , Posh Alexander, Dylan Wusu and I could go on and on. That is what this fan base appreciates first and foremost. 
Shamorie just does not fit into that group. He was not in great shape, did not work overly hard in the off season and was preoccupied with his Instagram posts. He lacked the humility of the players I named and the many others who I failed to list as my point had been made. 
As for teammates who were not at his talent level it has been a long time since we had a team of top 50 players. However, he was surrounded by some very good talent. Tariq has had a sniff or two in the league, Simon was a top 30 player coming out of high school, Clark top 50, Bashir a jc aa , Lovett top 100, so to say he did not have good talent around him is just false. His teams certainly lacked a good bench. 
Was he a volume scorer on a mediocre team he certainly was. Was he one of our best players over the last 20 years he certainly was, but to characterize him with Malik, Walter, Ron A, Sonny Dove, Chris, Tony J, just to name a few, does not hold water with me. 
What he accomplished, I would agree with you.   I just never heard  him being criticized by those close to the program in the manner that he has been criticized here.   Was he an elite player compared to our all time greats.  I can't comment on guys I never saw.   Alan Seiden was a smart ass who basically annoyed himself out of the league for the St. Louis Hawks,  You'd have to be almost 80 to remember Tony Jackson.   I missed Sonny Dove amd never saw Mel Davis as a collegiate player.    

But to be completely fair, Ponds came here with zero supporting cast with a roster that has zero sustainability.   What pisses me about the NR compliments about handing Lavin an NCAA team, was that he couldn't win with a better roster (Anthony Mason Jr) the year before, and it was a messed up roster of all seniors.   By Jordan and Obekpa leaving Mullin started from ground zero.   Shamorie came in year two and he and Lovett were the catalysts towards program resurgence, which is no easy task as we have seen this year.   Had Lovett not left, it's possible, Ponds may have seen the NCAA tournament in 3 years.   He was definitely the recipient of thin rosters and virtually no front line.   I would have liked to have seen him with a solid supporting cast around him.  The closest we came was his junior year, and those around him (Heron, Clarke, Simons) performed so inconsistently, he tried to carry a burden that makes almost any player ineffective.

It's a fun discussion, but I'm not very big on characterizing any player as lazy or out of shape, especially because I am both.,    /media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png

Yeah,  but I'll bet you wouldn't be(lazy and out of shape) if someone were dangling a multimillion dollar pro contract in front of you /media/kunena/emoticons/wink.png

 
Oh, no, not at all.  I would work my butt off /media/kunena/emoticons/smile.png  You would too.   In fact, you're my friend just so I can benefit from you when that day comes /media/kunena/emoticons/kissing.png
 
I think many times in evaluating a players college career we get caught up in their later pro careers. For exampl I saw every game Marc Jackson played at SJU and I would rate Ponds over Jackson as a college player. Had Ponds stayed for his senior year it would be even more one sided but Ponds don't have the physical requirements for the NBA and Jackson pro career was outstanding.
Based strictly on their SJU careers I'll take Ponds.
 
And Jackson was more of a role player 2 of his 4 years.  Last two years, he excelled.  Ponds was the lead guy as freshman and all 3 years here.  When looking at the greats, need to not just look at their best year stats but total contribution and level of role over time here. 

Ponds still may not be Top 5, but with hundreds of players to wear red & white over 100+ years, he was more than very good.
 
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