Pitino - Love/Hate Thread

[beast of the east]

P

Frankly, that's garbage. Villanova took the Dupont name off the Pavillion when the donor was convicted of murder. St. John's stood by Jayson years after he made a million dollar donation. Key members of the AD support Rysheed Jordan even though he doesn't have a penny to donate to the school. Jayson has come a long way and works every day to stay sober and help others. I've taken cheap shots in the past and my friend Panther rightfully called me on it. Let's not drag Jayson into any discussion about Pitino.

This isn't about JW, it's about hypocrisy. 

 

Ok Monte, let's talk about being a hypocrite. Part of being a college coach is instilling values in your players and being their to support them even when they are finished playing.

I first met Andre McGee in the early 2000's when he came to the Adids ABCD Camp in Teaneck, where I was working. When he graduated from high school in 2005, he was one of the top rated PG's in the country. He chose to attend Louisville but his college career did not live up to expectations due to injuries. He was the starting PG as a senior, then played overseas for a year.

McGee then went back to Louisville as a Grad Assistant and after two years was promoted to DOB Operations. In 2014, he left Louisville to become for a position as an Asst Coach at UMKC. This is when the scandal broke about strippers and prostitutes being provide for recruits and their fathers, friends, and handlers by Louisville. When this happened, Pitino placed all of the blame on Andre McGee, claiming he had no knowledge at all of what was going on. Two things are wrong with this, #1, Pitino is a control freak, which is why he is so good as a coach. He controls every aspect of his program. There is no way recruits were at these parties without his knowledge. #2, as a DOB, McGee did not have the money to fund these parties with strippers and prostitutes, It had to come from somewhere. When Pitino threw the McGee under the bus, I lost all respect for him as a Coach and as a Man. He was all about saving his own ass at the expense of one of his former players and DOB. To me, this shows that Pitino has a lack of values, morals, and integrity. There is no way I would want him involved in the shaping of young men's lives.

As for the Jayson Williams / Pitino comparison, not even close. As Beast pointed out, Jayson admitted what he did, served his time, and is now working in the Substance Abuse field in an effort to help others. Having made mistakes in my own life, I can identify with Jayson and respect what he is doing. To this day, Pitino has not taken responsibility for any of his actions, which in my book, makes him a fraud and phony.

Just a refresher on the boy wonder:

[URL]https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/09/louisville-rick-pitino-adidas-scandal-karen-sypher-extortion-katrina-powell-book-recruits-scandals-list[/URL]]3 scandals that tainted Rick Pitino’s legacy at Louisville (usatoday.com)[/url]

[URL]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/07/27/karen-syphers-sentence-extorting-rick-pitino-expires-but-shes-still-under-federal-supervision/516147001/[/URL]]Karen Sypher's sentence for extorting Rick Pitino expires, but she's still under federal supervision (usatoday.com)[/url]

 

[beast of the east]

P

Frankly, that's garbage. Villanova took the Dupont name off the Pavillion when the donor was convicted of murder. St. John's stood by Jayson years after he made a million dollar donation. Key members of the AD support Rysheed Jordan even though he doesn't have a penny to donate to the school. Jayson has come a long way and works every day to stay sober and help others. I've taken cheap shots in the past and my friend Panther rightfully called me on it. Let's not drag Jayson into any discussion about Pitino.

This isn't about JW, it's about hypocrisy. 

 

Ok Monte, let's talk about being a hypocrite. Part of being a college coach is instilling values in your players and being their to support them even when they are finished playing.

I first met Andre McGee in the early 2000's when he came to the Adids ABCD Camp in Teaneck, where I was working. When he graduated from high school in 2005, he was one of the top rated PG's in the country. He chose to attend Louisville but his college career did not live up to expectations due to injuries. He was the starting PG as a senior, then played overseas for a year.

McGee then went back to Louisville as a Grad Assistant and after two years was promoted to DOB Operations. In 2014, he left Louisville to become for a position as an Asst Coach at UMKC. This is when the scandal broke about strippers and prostitutes being provide for recruits and their fathers, friends, and handlers by Louisville. When this happened, Pitino placed all of the blame on Andre McGee, claiming he had no knowledge at all of what was going on. Two things are wrong with this, #1, Pitino is a control freak, which is why he is so good as a coach. He controls every aspect of his program. There is no way recruits were at these parties without his knowledge. #2, as a DOB, McGee did not have the money to fund these parties with strippers and prostitutes, It had to come from somewhere. When Pitino threw the McGee under the bus, I lost all respect for him as a Coach and as a Man. He was all about saving his own ass at the expense of one of his former players and DOB. To me, this shows that Pitino has a lack of values, morals, and integrity. There is no way I would want him involved in the shaping of young men's lives.

As for the Jayson Williams / Pitino comparison, not even close. As Beast pointed out, Jayson admitted what he did, served his time, and is now working in the Substance Abuse field in an effort to help others. Having made mistakes in my own life, I can identify with Jayson and respect what he is doing. To this day, Pitino has not taken responsibility for any of his actions, which in my book, makes him a fraud and phony.

If you look closely, there is a good reason he is called slick rick.   He has evaded the worst of what he's done (and I'm certain there is far more that went on undetected) is that he was smart enough to let a grad assistant be the bag man from the onset, to make sure if it ever was detected, he would be far enough away to do little more than raise suspicions that couldn't be proven.   I'm sure it's on the web somewhere, but allegedly didn't he try to get an assistant to marry the waitress when she got pregnant or some crazy story.   He was smart enough not to negotiate with her and instead had her arrested for extortion, never taking responsibility other than to say the act was consensual.   

I wish him success there and a good life, and maybe even redemption if he wins by running a clean program.   But the thing about guys like this, the temptation, the slick get over on you moves, are too much of a pull.   Yea, it might be a white lie to a recruit, or a smaller bag of cash showing up at the mom's house of a recruit.   It may be a recruiting visit where it's just a party with sorority girls.   But with Rick, in the end, he always walks away with money, and far enough from blame so he never has had to pay.    

There's always a sucker who looks the other way because he wins.

 

[RedmanMike]

Anyone who thinks Pitino should be our coach should read "The Last Temptation of Rick Pitino."  He's a fraud and a cheat.  It started with his first assistant coaching job at Hawaii, and it never stopped.  He's a great coach without question, but no school that has an ounce of morality should touch him.

Beast of the East is 100% correct about the Andre McGee situation at Louisville.  And that's the Pitino playbook.  Point the fingers elsewhere - preferably at people who are too weak to do anything about it.  Happens every time.

Would Pitino win more games at St. John's than Mike Anderson?  Yes.  And maybe for some people on here that's enough.  But the other shoe always drops.

So let the Auburns and LSUs of the world give Pitino his next job.  I'll stick with Mike Anderson.

 

[lawmanfan]

If y'all could make even a tiny effort to stay on topic in a thread and start a new one when you want to talk about something that is totally unrelated to the original thread, that would be much appreciated by the longsuffering moderators who have to use a clunky and time-consuming process to separate the off-topic material into a new thread.
Thanks much

 

[SLYFOXX1968]

There are many sleazy Coaches in College Basketball .  There are the obviously known ones . Bruce Pearl , Jones at LSU . One who isn’t mentioned but , is as dirty as hell is Kelvin Sampson , now at Houston .  I’m betting there are dozens more that we aren’t aware of .   Pitino is a great Coach . He’s proven that , everywhere he Coached .  He isn’t the first or last Coach to entice Recruits with rule breaking favors .  And , some of these highly recruited kids parents have their hand out too .  Like it’s expected .   His actions might be especially onerous to many people in the game but , not to others .    And , many of these highly recruited Players have advisors or friends who can influence where the kid winds up . They usually don’t do it for free . So , it’s a part of the Recruiting cycle .  Personal Indiscretions are a different matter but exist since time began .   
 

 

[L J S A]

If y'all could make even a tiny effort to stay on topic in a thread and start a new one when you want to talk about something that is totally unrelated to the original thread, that would be much appreciated by the longsuffering moderators who have to use a clunky and time-consuming process to separate the off-topic material into a new thread.
Thanks much

Mentioning other coaches in a thread where we are discussing whether our own coach is up to the job is off topic? He would have to be replaced with somebody if the people who want him gone got their way, right?

 

[redmannorth]

Anyone who thinks Pitino should be our coach should read "The Last Temptation of Rick Pitino."  He's a fraud and a cheat.  It started with his first assistant coaching job at Hawaii, and it never stopped.  He's a great coach without question, but no school that has an ounce of morality should touch him.

Beast of the East is 100% correct about the Andre McGee situation at Louisville.  And that's the Pitino playbook.  Point the fingers elsewhere - preferably at people who are too weak to do anything about it.  Happens every time.

Would Pitino win more games at St. John's than Mike Anderson?  Yes.  And maybe for some people on here that's enough.  But the other shoe always drops.

So let the Auburns and LSUs of the world give Pitino his next job.  I'll stick with Mike Anderson.

point the finger at someone else, just like Mike Jarvis that beauty did with Alex Evans who is an absolutely standup guy and had his dream job ruined because of Jarvis. 
Jarvis paid a destitute African immigrant with zero family or resources on this continent $300 a month and lacked the balls to stand up in front of the NCAA and try to explain with valid grounds what he did. He didn’t pay for strippers, drugs, cars, hotels, or anything of the sort but he could not even man up for what he did. What a spineless individual. 

 

[ohiofan]

Yes, it is off topic.

 

[fordham96]

Some posters on this thread are so phony it is unbelievable.  One thing people like to do is engage in faux outrage.  Always makes them feel better.

 

[Knight]

Let’s keep it civil.

 

[L J S A]

Yes, it is off topic.

My post definitely wasn't. I answer the the main question of the Anderson thread pretty clearly.

 

[classof2010]

Bring him in tired of watching this clown show!

 

[MattyHoops]

Pitino is a no brainer but unfortunately the time was 3 years ago. His sights and the interest on him will be beyond here unless we can guarantee a HC job for Junior when senior is done. 

 

[Ray Morgan]

St. John's acts like a university still suffering shell shock from the night in Pittsburgh and the aftermath. Money and popularity has made college hoops an all too competitive business for an admin either unable or unwilling to do what it takes to compete.

I don't put that much thought into coaches. Many are interchangeable, as it's talent and the recruiting of the talent that matters. Not much different than a horse and jockey. The exception are the truly elite basketball minds. Rick Pitino is one of them. He can coach circles around most of the post Looie hires. On the recruiting trail, he would have to play from behind against every program with much nicer facilities (most) and a penchant for cheating to get recruits (again most). His hands would be tied here. I will trust the insiders here that say he wanted the St. John's job. If he grows the Iona program, then he can be more selective if leaving the program. I think that would eliminate St. John's, even if the school would take him.

 

[ctstorm]

My take is I like CMA, especially his persona and integrity and getting the players to play hard. A clunker like yesterday is excusable on the road. BUT if he and SJ were to part ways, I would welcome Pitino and be very excited about the program. I guess I am a hypocrite. 

 

[fordham96]

Most?  Did you really have to think when you compare the coaching of Pitino to Mahoney, Jarvis, Roberts, Lavin, Mullin and Anderson?

Seriously?  Whatever you think of Pitino personally you are talking about one of the top 2 or 3 coaches of his generation.  There is no one seriously who would argue with that.

Ray Morgan post=451499
 He can coach circles around most of the post Looie hires. 

 

[salty dog]

What an absolute waste of time this thread is

 

[Mullins Revenge]

What an absolute waste of time this thread is

Agreed.  Pitino is too old anyway.  We need a young, hungry coach who can grow this program into what it needs to be.  Paging Drew Valentine.

 

[beast of the east]

St. John's acts like a university still suffering shell shock from the night in Pittsburgh and the aftermath. Money and popularity has made college hoops an all too competitive business for an admin either unable or unwilling to do what it takes to compete.

I don't put that much thought into coaches. Many are interchangeable, as it's talent and the recruiting of the talent that matters. Not much different than a horse and jockey. The exception are the truly elite basketball minds. Rick Pitino is one of them. He can coach circles around most of the post Looie hires. On the recruiting trail, he would have to play from behind against every program with much nicer facilities (most) and a penchant for cheating to get recruits (again most). His hands would be tied here. I will trust the insiders here that say he wanted the St. John's job. If he grows the Iona program, then he can be more selective if leaving the program. I think that would eliminate St. John's, even if the school would take him.

Is our fan/donor base willing to do what it takes?   Unlike pro sports, where owners fund all the financial decisions, college sports are much different.   It's not coincidental that Villanova's ability to sustain excellence also co-exists with a strong donor base.   They not only have two recent NCAA championships, but world class facilities, a gorgeous campus, and students who would die to get accepted.    Yes, Georgetown can raise money as well, and their failures illustrate just how hard it is to win in a top league.   Boston college also raises a ton of money, but their basketball team loses, and draws horribly.    

Even the great Rick Pitino realizes that he cannot draw top talent to Iona unless they build better facilities.   He is also smart enough to realize that money must come from the donor base, and according to someone on here, meets with potential donors encouraging them to give.  

There is no doubt that even with horrible facilities, Anderson must recruit better talent, and he's certainly aware of it.    When you realize that he is recruiting from a starting point way behind the competition in terms of facilities, the problem isn't only him - it's us too.   .

 

[Knight]

Anyone hear any news of Pitino’s predecessor, Kevin Cleuss?