Orlando Sanchez

Let's be real...the article comes from a reputable source, and it's very clear: not happening. Not surprised one bit here...when it rains it pours for us. This is an exceptionally negative year so far and the only thing that can change that is going on a 2011 esque run taking down a few top 10 teams and taking care of business vs. the little guys like Prov, DePaul, Seton Hall. This team needs to come out vs. Cincy and G'Town playing ANGRY. Angry that the writers picked us last in the conference, angry that everyone says we are young and it holds us back, angry that jerked us around with Sanchez only to shut him down, and angry that we are losing against chumps and more recently one of the least talented Nova teams in years. If Harrison leaves after this year, it will really be the icing on the cake for this year.
 
http://zagsblog.com/articles/ncaa-declared-st-johns-sanchez-ineligible-in-november-and-hes-unlikely-to-ever-suit-up-for-johnnies/
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Now you understand my 180.

There are laws in the real world about deceptive advertising. You try to sell a product with false promises or withholding information on a defect so that the product gets sold first and then spin a story during its recall.

Case in point with the 2012-13 St. John's basketball team.
Flashback to the Spring signing period. Lavin proclaims the 2012 class one of his best ever. Gets Sampson to re-commit, a sleeper in Darrick Wood may or may not materialize, we sign dynamic Juco duo Marco and Orlando, we sign Obekpa, we have Jamal Branch in the fold. The team is deep if inexperienced. It can do no worse than 5 frosh playing 99% of the games.

Fast forward to September. News releases by Lavin says all players are enrolled and he expects all will qualify. Season tickets go on sale and from all the P.R. All is good in Lavinwood.
However, there are issues....with both Marco and Orlando....but not a peep to the fans buying tickets. It is now November......no Gift in lineup. No explanation at first then the spin begins. Lavin may not need Gift because Sanchez would take all his minutes so let's save the ship. Only problem was Orlando was never cleared to play by the NCAA and Lav knew it. Now the way I heard it, Gift was very upset with being held back and Lavin had to talk his parents into the 5th year option. Now we all know we all expected a "big" frontline with Gift, Sampson and Sanchez playing center, SF and PF respectively. Obekpa would go through his apprenticeship and Christian Jones would get minutes off the bench. That front line scenario never materialized.
Now the conflicting reports and mis (or lack of) information continues to leak out of Fratto's office.

Now to the present. We are in last place in the Big East. It is 2013 and Big East play has begun. No Sanchez....no Gift.....no truthful answers by Lavin and staff. Anyone who predicted a throw-away season and a .500 record with two nationally ranked recruiting classes is FOS.

Misinformation, miscalculations and missed recruiting opportunities is becoming more the norm. It is a sign that we are recruiting out of desperation three years in a row. We may lead the conference in pursuing players with eligibility issues thereby spending inordinate amount of resources on questionable players rather than pursuing a few Gonzaga-like recruits.

This was not supposed to be a throw-away year back in September when we paid big bucks for Times Square priced advertising us as New York City's team.

Last night we gave up almost 100 points to one of the weak 7 sisters. A team from NYC, Columbia, embarrassed the same Nova team with walk-on level players in the Big East and beating Nova by 17 points. That Columbia team astutely recognized a pimple-faced shooting threat and shut him down (he shot 1-13). We allowed the same kid....with defensive specialists Pointer and Branch, a career high......likely a 4 year career high IMO.
It all points in one misdirection.
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Unfortunately, I have to agree with this. During the game,the announcers were mentioning that Lavin was not his typical jovial self during the pre-game interviews. Wonder if he senses the jig may be up.
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I wouldn't be happy either if I had to chum up with Tim Welsh.
 
I think a lot of you guys are missing the point of redshirting GG. Lavin saw his year we weren't going anywhere without Sanchez so he would rather we lose but give Jakarr, Jones, Garrett and Obekpa their maximum minutes for them to develop and then next year we will have guys with a lot of experience plus adding GG who will be a 5th year senior. If we played GG this year then a lot of guys would have minutes cut and even more if Sanchez became eligible and next year we would only have Obekpa and Jones as our true big men and everyone would have been complaining that we need a veteran big man. Next year can be a really special year, this year we have a lot of young developing parts and with Gift we are honestly probably in the same position we are in now.
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it no longer works this way. players don't necessarily stay four years. let me remind you about harkless. my money is on harrison and sampson...and possibly garrett (baseball career) gone next year. i don't see their replacements waiting in the wings. god's gift would have given our out of shape players a bit of a blow. maybe he wasn't great on the boards...but he's better than anyone we have. you have to believe a huge mistake was made.
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OK so next year which veteran big man do you propose we replace Sampson with next year if he leaves and Gift played this year? Gift was barely playing towards the end of last year, he was routinely getting outrebounded and schooled on defense. He would be sitting right next to Christian Jones on the bench if he was activated this year. Next year with a full year of practice against legit players maybe he will be better, it seems like a waste to just play Gift this year then be left with a bare cupboard next year.
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This must be a joke.
Gift wouldn't have sniffed the floor against Baylor? How about USF?

And if you whiff on all 2013 ranked bigs , go the JUCO route.
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Can Gift defend point guards? If not then he wouldn't have made any difference in those games.
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Baylor beat us because of PG play? Ok buddy.

And USF has a top 5 rebounder in the NCAA.
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Gift averaged 5.6 rebounds per game as the teams only true big man in 30 minutes per game. For comparison's sake, Obekpa is averaging 5.2 in 26 minutes. Garrett is averaging 5.8 in 25 minutes. Gift was not a good rebounder, actually he was quite putrid at rebounding. Gift would not have done anything to change the team's fortunes this year.
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So you know this, how? Gift's experience last year wouldn't hurt him; the kid is a team player. I'd take my chances with him. And why not?
 
Overall I like Lavin as a coach, but I learned last year not to believe his "spin".
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I would never believe a coach unless they are well known to be straight shooters like Lou Pinella in baseball. Whenever a coach talks to the press, 99% of the time they are trying to give you the impression that everything is just peachy because it's merely a public relations event.
 
http://zagsblog.com/articles/ncaa-declared-st-johns-sanchez-ineligible-in-november-and-hes-unlikely-to-ever-suit-up-for-johnnies/
Click to expand...

Now you understand my 180.

There are laws in the real world about deceptive advertising. You try to sell a product with false promises or withholding information on a defect so that the product gets sold first and then spin a story during its recall.

Case in point with the 2012-13 St. John's basketball team.
Flashback to the Spring signing period. Lavin proclaims the 2012 class one of his best ever. Gets Sampson to re-commit, a sleeper in Darrick Wood may or may not materialize, we sign dynamic Juco duo Marco and Orlando, we sign Obekpa, we have Jamal Branch in the fold. The team is deep if inexperienced. It can do no worse than 5 frosh playing 99% of the games.

Fast forward to September. News releases by Lavin says all players are enrolled and he expects all will qualify. Season tickets go on sale and from all the P.R. All is good in Lavinwood.
However, there are issues....with both Marco and Orlando....but not a peep to the fans buying tickets. It is now November......no Gift in lineup. No explanation at first then the spin begins. Lavin may not need Gift because Sanchez would take all his minutes so let's save the ship. Only problem was Orlando was never cleared to play by the NCAA and Lav knew it. Now the way I heard it, Gift was very upset with being held back and Lavin had to talk his parents into the 5th year option. Now we all know we all expected a "big" frontline with Gift, Sampson and Sanchez playing center, SF and PF respectively. Obekpa would go through his apprenticeship and Christian Jones would get minutes off the bench. That front line scenario never materialized.
Now the conflicting reports and mis (or lack of) information continues to leak out of Fratto's office.

Now to the present. We are in last place in the Big East. It is 2013 and Big East play has begun. No Sanchez....no Gift.....no truthful answers by Lavin and staff. Anyone who predicted a throw-away season and a .500 record with two nationally ranked recruiting classes is FOS.

Misinformation, miscalculations and missed recruiting opportunities is becoming more the norm. It is a sign that we are recruiting out of desperation three years in a row. We may lead the conference in pursuing players with eligibility issues thereby spending inordinate amount of resources on questionable players rather than pursuing a few Gonzaga-like recruits.

This was not supposed to be a throw-away year back in September when we paid big bucks for Times Square priced advertising us as New York City's team.

Last night we gave up almost 100 points to one of the weak 7 sisters. A team from NYC, Columbia, embarrassed the same Nova team with walk-on level players in the Big East and beating Nova by 17 points. That Columbia team astutely recognized a pimple-faced shooting threat and shut him down (he shot 1-13). We allowed the same kid....with defensive specialists Pointer and Branch, a career high......likely a 4 year career high IMO.
It all points in one misdirection.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I have to agree with this. During the game,the announcers were mentioning that Lavin was not his typical jovial self during the pre-game interviews. Wonder if he senses the jig may be up.
Click to expand...
I wouldn't be happy either if I had to chum up with Tim Welsh.
Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with Welsh, especially with his analysis of what's wrong with our team. At least he knows.
 
When Gift plays again, whether it's this week or next season he is going to be a nonfactor. Mark my words.

But, for that same reason I think he should be playing now, not redshirting. Give him a shot, why not? Nothing else is working down low right now. But I would bet he ends up like Jones, we give him a start or two.. maybe 15mins in his two first games, and then he would disappear to the end of the bench.
Not sure what we would be saving him for. It's not like he'll make a difference next year.
 
Last night on Big East Preview Lenn Robbins announced that St. John's will find out about the eligibility of Sanchez in 7 to 10 days.
 
When Gift plays again, whether it's this week or next season he is going to be a nonfactor. Mark my words.

But, for that same reason I think he should be playing now, not redshirting. Give him a shot, why not? Nothing else is working down low right now. But I would bet he ends up like Jones, we give him a start or two.. maybe 15mins in his two first games, and then he would disappear to the end of the bench.
Not sure what we would be saving him for. It's not like he'll make a difference next year.
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Gift was touted by Lav as the hardest worker on the team.....on and off the court. A rare find at St. John's. The staff made sure he was at most of Obekpa's local games. Now he sits helpless to watch 6'6" forwards like Pinkston have career games. I feel for the kid. Having been redshirted as a senior, if he graduates on time, the cards are all in his hands. He can fly to Europe or Asia and play pro ball AND get a Masters there. He can be "recruited" by another college without having to sit a year because he values an MBA at some other college more. For a team lacking anything resembling a Big East front line......and with none on the horizon, this is a big gamble by Lavin.
 
Agree with class of '72 who has been bringing it lately-Lavin is starting to make Calipari look like George Washington.
 
The Zags story is not flattering to Lavin, but I think we all accept that our coach – like most coaches – will bring the most optimistic outlook to any situation. If anyone still takes coach-speak from any coach at face value, I can offer you a great deal on a bridge not too far from the Barclay's Center that is sure to appreciate in value.

As for Gift, can we knock off the hyperbole on both sides? He would not have been the savior of our season if he played; nor is he so bad that he doesn't belong on a Big East roster. What I saw last year was an extremely athletic big with some raw skills and plenty of potential. In my view, the staff might be doing the kid a favor – giving him an extra year of quality coaching that will put him in a better position to earn a pro contract with a strong season next year.

And despite the frustrations over where we stand in Year Three under Lavin, I still believe there is no coach in the country better suited to head up our program. Have we forgotten how downtrodden the brand of St. John's basketball was a few years ago? Does nobody remember Jarvis? Pittsburgh? Norm?

We found a guy with a high profile who is recruiting better talent than we've seen in a decade. A guy who can satisfy the expectations of administration that he'll run a program that won't embarrass the university. A guy who can begin to rebuild the reputation of St. John's hoops with the local basketball community and the NY media.

Do I wish we were 13-0? Yes. Am I frustrated watching freshmen throw up dumb shots or lose track of a guy who's hitting everything he throws up. Yes. I'd love to see us be a legitimate contender right now.

But I've enjoyed watching the teams we put on the floor over the past three seasons more than almost any teams we've seen at St. John's over the past couple of decades. I'm still optimistic that Lavin and crew will bring great things, albeit more slowly than most of us initially expected.

Bit of a rant, but, damn, we're tough on our guys!
 
Red Storm Reports tomorrow and Saturday on SNY. Will Lavin level on Orlando Sanchez or just ignore subject. Then again may have shot the show today. I'll definatly be sure to catch it. It could be interesting.
 
Red Storm Reports tomorrow and Saturday on SNY. Will Lavin level on Orlando Sanchez or just ignore subject. Then again may have shot the show today. I'll definatly be sure to catch it. It could be interesting.
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There is no chance you will get any new information on Orlando on that show. It's a fluff piece produced by the athletic department.
 
The Zags story is not flattering to Lavin, but I think we all accept that our coach – like most coaches – will bring the most optimistic outlook to any situation. If anyone still takes coach-speak from any coach at face value, I can offer you a great deal on a bridge not too far from the Barclay's Center that is sure to appreciate in value.

As for Gift, can we knock off the hyperbole on both sides? He would not have been the savior of our season if he played; nor is he so bad that he doesn't belong on a Big East roster. What I saw last year was an extremely athletic big with some raw skills and plenty of potential. In my view, the staff might be doing the kid a favor – giving him an extra year of quality coaching that will put him in a better position to earn a pro contract with a strong season next year.

And despite the frustrations over where we stand in Year Three under Lavin, I still believe there is no coach in the country better suited to head up our program. Have we forgotten how downtrodden the brand of St. John's basketball was a few years ago? Does nobody remember Jarvis? Pittsburgh? Norm?

We found a guy with a high profile who is recruiting better talent than we've seen in a decade. A guy who can satisfy the expectations of administration that he'll run a program that won't embarrass the university. A guy who can begin to rebuild the reputation of St. John's hoops with the local basketball community and the NY media.

Do I wish we were 13-0? Yes. Am I frustrated watching freshmen throw up dumb shots or lose track of a guy who's hitting everything he throws up. Yes. I'd love to see us be a legitimate contender right now.

But I've enjoyed watching the teams we put on the floor over the past three seasons more than almost any teams we've seen at St. John's over the past couple of decades. I'm still optimistic that Lavin and crew will bring great things, albeit more slowly than most of us initially expected.

Bit of a rant, but, damn, we're tough on our guys!
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For me, firestorm said it best. I feel this way.

The redshirt of GG was a miscalculation, yes. He would have added experieince, depth and a big body, not 20/10 per night. But that experience, depth and body would have helped, and would have allowed other guys to play their true positions, a big difference. Eliminated some mismatches and added a deterrent down low.

But, we are FAR better off now than we were a few years ago, and we are on the way back up. There is more talent on this team than probably all of Norm's combined (maybe a bit of an overstatement, but not by much).

This is a work in progress. I think by year end, we will be much better, and will have pulled off sone surprises.

Maybe the biggest thing we have to hope for (for next year) is that Harrison elects to stay (I think Sampson will). If he does, then with all the returning parts and another year under our belt, we are on our way...
 
I look at like last year was a wash, coach out and players ineligible and guys leaving. This year i feel is what last year should of been, some growing pains taking lumps and some surprises. We are just year behind schedule hopefully. Thats my positive spin on the situation.
 
STJ_Basketball ‏@STJ_Basketball

@sweetnesscba Despite reports, it's a process that's ongoing. We continue to work with the NCAA to submit documentation for Orlando. #stjbb
 
STJ_Basketball ‏@STJ_Basketball

@sweetnesscba Despite reports, it's a process that's ongoing. We continue to work with the NCAA to submit documentation for Orlando. #stjbb[/quote


Thanks Tom.

An incurable optimist I am enouraged by this tweet even though the saga of Sanchez is reminiscent of Waiting for Godot.
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STJ_Basketball ‏@STJ_Basketball

@sweetnesscba Despite reports, it's a process that's ongoing. We continue to work with the NCAA to submit documentation for Orlando. #stjbb[/quote


Thanks Tom.

An incurable optimist I am enouraged by this tweet even though the saga of Sanchez is reminiscent of Waiting for Godot.
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Despite what reports? Despite the report that Sanchez will be playing in two weeks or despite the report that Sanchez was ruled ineligible? More ambiguity -- gotta love it
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STJ_Basketball ‏@STJ_Basketball

@sweetnesscba Despite reports, it's a process that's ongoing. We continue to work with the NCAA to submit documentation for Orlando. #stjbb
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It's fluid.

No worries.
 
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