Orlando Sanchez

[Moose]

http://zagsblog.com/articles/ncaa-declared-st-johns-sanchez-ineligible-in-november-and-hes-unlikely-to-ever-suit-up-for-johnnies/

Getting better and better and better!

 

[logen]

Firestorm writes:
"Over-hyped Christian Jones? Nobody knew a thing about him until a couple of big games early in the season when this board got a little too excited about a freshman with a big body. Whose fault is that?

Yes, we need to see some improvement. I hope we see that tonight. But all things considered, I like where we are now better than I did two years ago."

True about Jones insofar as we fans are concerned ...we knew little about him or his potential until the Lavin accolades......to the point he made him a "starter"!! Whose fault is that?
Last year was a disaster but this year we supposedly have a nationally ranked recruiting class.....our second. That is why we expect results.
The media can make or break a team in the NY metro area. The national media has tossed us to the bottom of the Big East heap.
I agree...we need to see Improvement.......tonight!

And of course it is not possible Lavin talked up Jones to light a fire under someone else; I mean coaches never use the media to send a message.

Which of our many talented big men was Lavin trying to ignite by talking up Jones? Was it God's Gift? Did Lavin detect that Gift was not demonstrating the proper enthusiasm from the bench. Couldn't have been Sanchez. Obekpa? I can't think of any other bigs.

Gee, it could have been meant for anyone. Why did it have to be a "big."? Maybe it was about attitude or effort or who knows. Maybe he was trying something to try to get through to Harrison. My point is that all you self-proclaimed experts don't have a real clue and neither do I. I am not in practice, in meetings, on the bus, etc. so I have no idea why Lavin or any coach does what he does. The way you guys analyze, Tom Coughlin was a great coach and an utter failure four different times each this year. One last point, IM"humble"O, GG was red-shirted this year to improve his game because I think he proved last year he is not ready for big-time hoops. I could be wrong but that is what I think. Any of you who think he would be some kind of saviour are just blowing smoke.

I don't think any rational person, SJU fan or otherwise, thinks that GG would have been a saviour this year. Many of us, however, think that he would have provided some sorely needed rebounding and toughness underneath.

And I fundamentally disagree with your premise that GG proved last year that he was not ready for big time hoops. I thought GG clearly demonstrated that, while not a featured player, he could be a solid contributor in the right role. Certainly he was no less impressive than Pointer or Garrett and I don't hear anybody suggesting that either of them should be red shirted.

Logen I hate to disagree with you but I must say that I have to agree with every word Boo Harvey has written in this last post. He really hit the nail on the head.

No problem, there are no rights or wrongs, just opinions. My view; in almost identical minutes Pointer averaged 1 rebound a game less than GG last year. The majority of GG's high rebounding games were early in the season in non-conference games. Now, I am being a bit hypocritical because I have stated many times I am not a stat guy but I just don't think GG has much inside prescence, certainly not enough to change a teams mojo. Again, just my opinion. Certainly, you and Boo are entitled to yours. When teams lose fans grasp at straws to blame a coach or player, IMO we are just not a good basketball team. Outside of Harrison's scoring there is nothing consistent on the team. It is what it is but losing Harkless to the draft set the program back big time. We just don't have the depth of program at this time to overcome that. If Sanchez becomes eligible, Lavin and co. will become genuises again.

There's more than enough depth on the team. Harkless was replaced by Jakarr who has filled in just fine so far despite last night.

Time for people to top making excuses.

Consistency comes from preparation.

This team is vying for the sensational rather than the fundamental.

That is poor coaching. That is no accountability on the players parts.

Dunlap was known for repeating drills over and over until the players got them right. This year's group has no sense of halfcourt offense which is why we suck at team rebounding. Too many of them are ready to take off before even securing a rebound.

Why full court press on every single possession? Why play zone for an entire game?

Something is clearly lacking on the sidelines.

You're right; Lavin and co. are knuckleheads and should be fired. Harkless and Sampson playing TOGETHER wouldn't make us stronger but GG being available would. And accountability, Lavin should start benching people because after all, we have all those talented players sitting on the bench....no wait, why hold the players accountable when the problem is with the coaching staff not coaching, I mean no repetitions, not like that finely honed machine of an offense we had last year....so, the coaches have to be the ones held accountable, bench Lavin, trade Keady and Chiles to the Bobcats for Dunlap and all of our problems are solved....

 

[Amaseinyourface]

http://zagsblog.com/articles/ncaa-declared-st-johns-sanchez-ineligible-in-november-and-hes-unlikely-to-ever-suit-up-for-johnnies/

Why no announcement? If this happened in November then why no gift? I dont know if I believe this. Hoping Len Robbins beats Adam Zagoria on this one.

 

[doodyny33]

http://zagsblog.com/articles/ncaa-declared-st-johns-sanchez-ineligible-in-november-and-hes-unlikely-to-ever-suit-up-for-johnnies/

Getting better and better and better!

If what the article says is true, then Lavin played a dangerous game by redshirting GG

Very poor decision by our coaching staff

 

[SJUhoopNUT]

Feel like the fans haven't been told all the facts in this case.

 

[newsman13]

http://zagsblog.com/articles/ncaa-declared-st-johns-sanchez-ineligible-in-november-and-hes-unlikely-to-ever-suit-up-for-johnnies/

Getting better and better and better!

If what the article says is true, then Lavin played a dangerous game by redshirting GG

Very poor decision by our coaching staff

can anyone say this was handled well? what about last year going down the drain with the three ineligibles? i'm sniffing some real ineptitude here.

 

[SJUalum98]

“It’s very fluid right now because we’re waiting to get the word on Orlando,” St. John’s coach Steve Lavin said in November.

"Fluid"

LOL

Why didn't he just say we got denied back in November?

Fluid.

Gift got jerked around since November when it was clear the NCAA denied us? My goodness.

 

[STJ11Redmen]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point of redshirting GG. Lavin saw his year we weren't going anywhere without Sanchez so he would rather we lose but give Jakarr, Jones, Garrett and Obekpa their maximum minutes for them to develop and then next year we will have guys with a lot of experience plus adding GG who will be a 5th year senior. If we played GG this year then a lot of guys would have minutes cut and even more if Sanchez became eligible and next year we would only have Obekpa and Jones as our true big men and everyone would have been complaining that we need a veteran big man. Next year can be a really special year, this year we have a lot of young developing parts and with Gift we are honestly probably in the same position we are in now.

 

[newsman13]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point of redshirting GG. Lavin saw his year we weren't going anywhere without Sanchez so he would rather we lose but give Jakarr, Jones, Garrett and Obekpa their maximum minutes for them to develop and then next year we will have guys with a lot of experience plus adding GG who will be a 5th year senior. If we played GG this year then a lot of guys would have minutes cut and even more if Sanchez became eligible and next year we would only have Obekpa and Jones as our true big men and everyone would have been complaining that we need a veteran big man. Next year can be a really special year, this year we have a lot of young developing parts and with Gift we are honestly probably in the same position we are in now.

it no longer works this way. players don't necessarily stay four years. let me remind you about harkless. my money is on harrison and sampson...and possibly garrett (baseball career) gone next year. i don't see their replacements waiting in the wings. god's gift would have given our out of shape players a bit of a blow. maybe he wasn't great on the boards...but he's better than anyone we have. you have to believe a huge mistake was made.

 

[STJ11Redmen]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point of redshirting GG. Lavin saw his year we weren't going anywhere without Sanchez so he would rather we lose but give Jakarr, Jones, Garrett and Obekpa their maximum minutes for them to develop and then next year we will have guys with a lot of experience plus adding GG who will be a 5th year senior. If we played GG this year then a lot of guys would have minutes cut and even more if Sanchez became eligible and next year we would only have Obekpa and Jones as our true big men and everyone would have been complaining that we need a veteran big man. Next year can be a really special year, this year we have a lot of young developing parts and with Gift we are honestly probably in the same position we are in now.

it no longer works this way. players don't necessarily stay four years. let me remind you about harkless. my money is on harrison and sampson...and possibly garrett (baseball career) gone next year. i don't see their replacements waiting in the wings. god's gift would have given our out of shape players a bit of a blow. maybe he wasn't great on the boards...but he's better than anyone we have. you have to believe a huge mistake was made.

OK so next year which veteran big man do you propose we replace Sampson with next year if he leaves and Gift played this year? Gift was barely playing towards the end of last year, he was routinely getting outrebounded and schooled on defense. He would be sitting right next to Christian Jones on the bench if he was activated this year. Next year with a full year of practice against legit players maybe he will be better, it seems like a waste to just play Gift this year then be left with a bare cupboard next year.

 

[tom in salem]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point of redshirting GG. Lavin saw his year we weren't going anywhere without Sanchez so he would rather we lose but give Jakarr, Jones, Garrett and Obekpa their maximum minutes for them to develop and then next year we will have guys with a lot of experience plus adding GG who will be a 5th year senior. If we played GG this year then a lot of guys would have minutes cut and even more if Sanchez became eligible and next year we would only have Obekpa and Jones as our true big men and everyone would have been complaining that we need a veteran big man. Next year can be a really special year, this year we have a lot of young developing parts and with Gift we are honestly probably in the same position we are in now.

I thought we'd be a .500 team this year, just like all the expert prognosticators.
You're post seems quite logical if coach was thinking the same way.
I think the expectations of the posters here were absurdly lofty.

 

[SJUalum98]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point of redshirting GG. Lavin saw his year we weren't going anywhere without Sanchez so he would rather we lose but give Jakarr, Jones, Garrett and Obekpa their maximum minutes for them to develop and then next year we will have guys with a lot of experience plus adding GG who will be a 5th year senior. If we played GG this year then a lot of guys would have minutes cut and even more if Sanchez became eligible and next year we would only have Obekpa and Jones as our true big men and everyone would have been complaining that we need a veteran big man. Next year can be a really special year, this year we have a lot of young developing parts and with Gift we are honestly probably in the same position we are in now.

it no longer works this way. players don't necessarily stay four years. let me remind you about harkless. my money is on harrison and sampson...and possibly garrett (baseball career) gone next year. i don't see their replacements waiting in the wings. god's gift would have given our out of shape players a bit of a blow. maybe he wasn't great on the boards...but he's better than anyone we have. you have to believe a huge mistake was made.

OK so next year which veteran big man do you propose we replace Sampson with next year if he leaves and Gift played this year? Gift was barely playing towards the end of last year, he was routinely getting outrebounded and schooled on defense. He would be sitting right next to Christian Jones on the bench if he was activated this year. Next year with a full year of practice against legit players maybe he will be better, it seems like a waste to just play Gift this year then be left with a bare cupboard next year.

This must be a joke.
Gift wouldn't have sniffed the floor against Baylor? How about USF?

And if you whiff on all 2013 ranked bigs , go the JUCO route.

 

[mjmaherjr]

If this is true and I was one of the 2 dominican fans who bought season tickets just to watch Sanchez I'd be irate

 

[STJ11Redmen]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point of redshirting GG. Lavin saw his year we weren't going anywhere without Sanchez so he would rather we lose but give Jakarr, Jones, Garrett and Obekpa their maximum minutes for them to develop and then next year we will have guys with a lot of experience plus adding GG who will be a 5th year senior. If we played GG this year then a lot of guys would have minutes cut and even more if Sanchez became eligible and next year we would only have Obekpa and Jones as our true big men and everyone would have been complaining that we need a veteran big man. Next year can be a really special year, this year we have a lot of young developing parts and with Gift we are honestly probably in the same position we are in now.

it no longer works this way. players don't necessarily stay four years. let me remind you about harkless. my money is on harrison and sampson...and possibly garrett (baseball career) gone next year. i don't see their replacements waiting in the wings. god's gift would have given our out of shape players a bit of a blow. maybe he wasn't great on the boards...but he's better than anyone we have. you have to believe a huge mistake was made.

OK so next year which veteran big man do you propose we replace Sampson with next year if he leaves and Gift played this year? Gift was barely playing towards the end of last year, he was routinely getting outrebounded and schooled on defense. He would be sitting right next to Christian Jones on the bench if he was activated this year. Next year with a full year of practice against legit players maybe he will be better, it seems like a waste to just play Gift this year then be left with a bare cupboard next year.

This must be a joke.
Gift wouldn't have sniffed the floor against Baylor? How about USF?

And if you whiff on all 2013 ranked bigs , go the JUCO route.

Can Gift defend point guards? If not then he wouldn't have made any difference in those games.

 

[SJUalum98]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point of redshirting GG. Lavin saw his year we weren't going anywhere without Sanchez so he would rather we lose but give Jakarr, Jones, Garrett and Obekpa their maximum minutes for them to develop and then next year we will have guys with a lot of experience plus adding GG who will be a 5th year senior. If we played GG this year then a lot of guys would have minutes cut and even more if Sanchez became eligible and next year we would only have Obekpa and Jones as our true big men and everyone would have been complaining that we need a veteran big man. Next year can be a really special year, this year we have a lot of young developing parts and with Gift we are honestly probably in the same position we are in now.

it no longer works this way. players don't necessarily stay four years. let me remind you about harkless. my money is on harrison and sampson...and possibly garrett (baseball career) gone next year. i don't see their replacements waiting in the wings. god's gift would have given our out of shape players a bit of a blow. maybe he wasn't great on the boards...but he's better than anyone we have. you have to believe a huge mistake was made.

OK so next year which veteran big man do you propose we replace Sampson with next year if he leaves and Gift played this year? Gift was barely playing towards the end of last year, he was routinely getting outrebounded and schooled on defense. He would be sitting right next to Christian Jones on the bench if he was activated this year. Next year with a full year of practice against legit players maybe he will be better, it seems like a waste to just play Gift this year then be left with a bare cupboard next year.

This must be a joke.
Gift wouldn't have sniffed the floor against Baylor? How about USF?

And if you whiff on all 2013 ranked bigs , go the JUCO route.

Can Gift defend point guards? If not then he wouldn't have made any difference in those games.

Baylor beat us because of PG play? Ok buddy.

And USF has a top 5 rebounder in the NCAA.

 

[STJ11Redmen]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point of redshirting GG. Lavin saw his year we weren't going anywhere without Sanchez so he would rather we lose but give Jakarr, Jones, Garrett and Obekpa their maximum minutes for them to develop and then next year we will have guys with a lot of experience plus adding GG who will be a 5th year senior. If we played GG this year then a lot of guys would have minutes cut and even more if Sanchez became eligible and next year we would only have Obekpa and Jones as our true big men and everyone would have been complaining that we need a veteran big man. Next year can be a really special year, this year we have a lot of young developing parts and with Gift we are honestly probably in the same position we are in now.

it no longer works this way. players don't necessarily stay four years. let me remind you about harkless. my money is on harrison and sampson...and possibly garrett (baseball career) gone next year. i don't see their replacements waiting in the wings. god's gift would have given our out of shape players a bit of a blow. maybe he wasn't great on the boards...but he's better than anyone we have. you have to believe a huge mistake was made.

OK so next year which veteran big man do you propose we replace Sampson with next year if he leaves and Gift played this year? Gift was barely playing towards the end of last year, he was routinely getting outrebounded and schooled on defense. He would be sitting right next to Christian Jones on the bench if he was activated this year. Next year with a full year of practice against legit players maybe he will be better, it seems like a waste to just play Gift this year then be left with a bare cupboard next year.

This must be a joke.
Gift wouldn't have sniffed the floor against Baylor? How about USF?

And if you whiff on all 2013 ranked bigs , go the JUCO route.

Can Gift defend point guards? If not then he wouldn't have made any difference in those games.

Baylor beat us because of PG play? Ok buddy.

And USF has a top 5 rebounder in the NCAA.

Gift averaged 5.6 rebounds per game as the teams only true big man in 30 minutes per game. For comparison's sake, Obekpa is averaging 5.2 in 26 minutes. Garrett is averaging 5.8 in 25 minutes. Gift was not a good rebounder, actually he was quite putrid at rebounding. Gift would not have done anything to change the team's fortunes this year.

 

[Moose]

I think a lot of you guys are missing the point of redshirting GG. Lavin saw his year we weren't going anywhere without Sanchez so he would rather we lose but give Jakarr, Jones, Garrett and Obekpa their maximum minutes for them to develop and then next year we will have guys with a lot of experience plus adding GG who will be a 5th year senior. If we played GG this year then a lot of guys would have minutes cut and even more if Sanchez became eligible and next year we would only have Obekpa and Jones as our true big men and everyone would have been complaining that we need a veteran big man. Next year can be a really special year, this year we have a lot of young developing parts and with Gift we are honestly probably in the same position we are in now.

it no longer works this way. players don't necessarily stay four years. let me remind you about harkless. my money is on harrison and sampson...and possibly garrett (baseball career) gone next year. i don't see their replacements waiting in the wings. god's gift would have given our out of shape players a bit of a blow. maybe he wasn't great on the boards...but he's better than anyone we have. you have to believe a huge mistake was made.

OK so next year which veteran big man do you propose we replace Sampson with next year if he leaves and Gift played this year? Gift was barely playing towards the end of last year, he was routinely getting outrebounded and schooled on defense. He would be sitting right next to Christian Jones on the bench if he was activated this year. Next year with a full year of practice against legit players maybe he will be better, it seems like a waste to just play Gift this year then be left with a bare cupboard next year.

This must be a joke.
Gift wouldn't have sniffed the floor against Baylor? How about USF?

And if you whiff on all 2013 ranked bigs , go the JUCO route.

Can Gift defend point guards? If not then he wouldn't have made any difference in those games.

Baylor beat us because of PG play? Ok buddy.

And USF has a top 5 rebounder in the NCAA.

How many rebounds did he have vs. us? Half his average. We neutralized him.

 

[Class of 72]

http://zagsblog.com/articles/ncaa-declared-st-johns-sanchez-ineligible-in-november-and-hes-unlikely-to-ever-suit-up-for-johnnies/

Now you understand my 180.

There are laws in the real world about deceptive advertising. You try to sell a product with false promises or withholding information on a defect so that the product gets sold first and then spin a story during its recall.

Case in point with the 2012-13 St. John's basketball team.
Flashback to the Spring signing period. Lavin proclaims the 2012 class one of his best ever. Gets Sampson to re-commit, a sleeper in Darrick Wood may or may not materialize, we sign dynamic Juco duo Marco and Orlando, we sign Obekpa, we have Jamal Branch in the fold. The team is deep if inexperienced. It can do no worse than 5 frosh playing 99% of the games.

Fast forward to September. News releases by Lavin says all players are enrolled and he expects all will qualify. Season tickets go on sale and from all the P.R. All is good in Lavinwood.
However, there are issues....with both Marco and Orlando....but not a peep to the fans buying tickets. It is now November......no Gift in lineup. No explanation at first then the spin begins. Lavin may not need Gift because Sanchez would take all his minutes so let's save the ship. Only problem was Orlando was never cleared to play by the NCAA and Lav knew it. Now the way I heard it, Gift was very upset with being held back and Lavin had to talk his parents into the 5th year option. Now we all know we all expected a "big" frontline with Gift, Sampson and Sanchez playing center, SF and PF respectively. Obekpa would go through his apprenticeship and Christian Jones would get minutes off the bench. That front line scenario never materialized.
Now the conflicting reports and mis (or lack of) information continues to leak out of Fratto's office.

Now to the present. We are in last place in the Big East. It is 2013 and Big East play has begun. No Sanchez....no Gift.....no truthful answers by Lavin and staff. Anyone who predicted a throw-away season and a .500 record with two nationally ranked recruiting classes is FOS.

Misinformation, miscalculations and missed recruiting opportunities is becoming more the norm. It is a sign that we are recruiting out of desperation three years in a row. We may lead the conference in pursuing players with eligibility issues thereby spending inordinate amount of resources on questionable players rather than pursuing a few Gonzaga-like recruits.

This was not supposed to be a throw-away year back in September when we paid big bucks for Times Square priced advertising us as New York City's team.

Last night we gave up almost 100 points to one of the weak 7 sisters. A team from NYC, Columbia, embarrassed the same Nova team with walk-on level players in the Big East and beating Nova by 17 points. That Columbia team astutely recognized a pimple-faced shooting threat and shut him down (he shot 1-13). We allowed the same kid....with defensive specialists Pointer and Branch, a career high......likely a 4 year career high IMO.
It all points in one misdirection.

 

[boo haarvey]

“It’s very fluid right now because we’re waiting to get the word on Orlando,” St. John’s coach Steve Lavin said in November.

"Fluid"

LOL

Why didn't he just say we got denied back in November?

Fluid.

Gift got jerked around since November when it was clear the NCAA denied us? My goodness.

If this article is true, I would say the fans got jerked around. If this article is true, I wouldn't believe another word I hear out of Lavin's mouth

 

[boo haarvey]

http://zagsblog.com/articles/ncaa-declared-st-johns-sanchez-ineligible-in-november-and-hes-unlikely-to-ever-suit-up-for-johnnies/

Now you understand my 180.

There are laws in the real world about deceptive advertising. You try to sell a product with false promises or withholding information on a defect so that the product gets sold first and then spin a story during its recall.

Case in point with the 2012-13 St. John's basketball team.
Flashback to the Spring signing period. Lavin proclaims the 2012 class one of his best ever. Gets Sampson to re-commit, a sleeper in Darrick Wood may or may not materialize, we sign dynamic Juco duo Marco and Orlando, we sign Obekpa, we have Jamal Branch in the fold. The team is deep if inexperienced. It can do no worse than 5 frosh playing 99% of the games.

Fast forward to September. News releases by Lavin says all players are enrolled and he expects all will qualify. Season tickets go on sale and from all the P.R. All is good in Lavinwood.
However, there are issues....with both Marco and Orlando....but not a peep to the fans buying tickets. It is now November......no Gift in lineup. No explanation at first then the spin begins. Lavin may not need Gift because Sanchez would take all his minutes so let's save the ship. Only problem was Orlando was never cleared to play by the NCAA and Lav knew it. Now the way I heard it, Gift was very upset with being held back and Lavin had to talk his parents into the 5th year option. Now we all know we all expected a "big" frontline with Gift, Sampson and Sanchez playing center, SF and PF respectively. Obekpa would go through his apprenticeship and Christian Jones would get minutes off the bench. That front line scenario never materialized.
Now the conflicting reports and mis (or lack of) information continues to leak out of Fratto's office.

Now to the present. We are in last place in the Big East. It is 2013 and Big East play has begun. No Sanchez....no Gift.....no truthful answers by Lavin and staff. Anyone who predicted a throw-away season and a .500 record with two nationally ranked recruiting classes is FOS.

Misinformation, miscalculations and missed recruiting opportunities is becoming more the norm. It is a sign that we are recruiting out of desperation three years in a row. We may lead the conference in pursuing players with eligibility issues thereby spending inordinate amount of resources on questionable players rather than pursuing a few Gonzaga-like recruits.

This was not supposed to be a throw-away year back in September when we paid big bucks for Times Square priced advertising us as New York City's team.

Last night we gave up almost 100 points to one of the weak 7 sisters. A team from NYC, Columbia, embarrassed the same Nova team with walk-on level players in the Big East and beating Nova by 17 points. That Columbia team astutely recognized a pimple-faced shooting threat and shut him down (he shot 1-13). We allowed the same kid....with defensive specialists Pointer and Branch, a career high......likely a 4 year career high IMO.
It all points in one misdirection.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with this. During the game,the announcers were mentioning that Lavin was not his typical jovial self during the pre-game interviews. Wonder if he senses the jig may be up.