'Nova Game Thread

[Class of 72]

 Had a great time today even after a loss to Nova. In spite of having to endure my two negative brother-in-laws, the sky is falling remarks every time we turned the ball over or missed a free throw, I think we could have easily won this game against a more experienced Nova team.
After the projected attendance remarks here I thought there would be 7 or 8,000 fans tops but the crowd was larger than I expected and it is clear that with the students back the atmosphere was more dynamic behind the backboards.

If ever our team gets just 4 of the 6 new players to play a complete game we will beat a Louisville, Nova or Cincy or Pitt any day. Unfortunate that today we got a great game from Harrison and, to an extent, Phil but the play of Gift, Pointer and Moe had only sporadic positive impact.

Phil scored some needed points today at critical times but as usual could not direct the offense and, as the point guard, held the ball too long before passing.
Gift had his worst game at the worst time. He couldn't handle the 6'10 Yarou and Pinkston and that 6'9 bull gave him fits inside. He only took two shots but will get better with a Gather's type power forward next to him. Neither Pointer nor Harkless are physical enough to help him this year. Nova had about 15 more shots than us because they got about 15 more rebounds inside.

Moe's numbers are again deceiving. Although it was obvious at the game I did not realize how little he contributed until I read the stat sheet. He had a very strong first half. He, as is his custom, disappeared for long stretches in the second half. At one point I remember D'Angelo screaming at him after losing his man and going after a loose ball soft. I have yet to see him dive for a loose ball. In the second half he scored his last meaningful basket with around 16 minutes to play. In the final 16 and in 5 minutes of overtime he scored a field goal and one free throw in 19 minutes with 4 critical turnovers. He shot 44% on 4 of 9 from the FT line and Dunlap gave him "if looks could kill" stares when he called a couple of time outs.
Bottom line is if Phil was better able to handle and pass the ball and had Moe not become passive, we would have easily won this game.

72, You unlike me bothered to go to the game today, and you deserved to have a good time. I can't say I did. Our best player goes 4 for 9 from the line, and looks to be on sedatives. DH plays every game in foul trouble because he keeps making the same mistakes. Our coach uses his last TO when we stink in the half court if we can get the ball in, but I might be out of line criticizing him. What was up with GG? If our guys fail to do what you might expect from kids at any level, it can't be fun for them either. I want them to be happy, so I'm hoping they can get another couple of wins. Eleven games left.  

 

Funny you mention that last time out! A few fans, including my SJ grad brother-in-law screamed NO!!!!!!
Our guys are terrible out of the time out because they cannot handle and the pass the ball. On the break they may have had a chance for a shot or foul. Instead the time out allowed Jay to smack his lips and set up his defense.

As for Moe Harkless, he lacks the mental toughness, aggressiveness and maturity to excel for 40 minutes. Twenty minutes is about his threshold and then he needs to sit and learn. But who do you put in that can provide offense? Jamal White? Talk of him going to the NBA is two years premature. His game actually has not changed much since his Forest Hills high school days. He was a skinny 6'6 kid who looked great for 10 minutes and then strolled around the perimeter where he would hide from contact. I understand he had that tendency at prep also. But it is mind-boggling he still is doing that as a freshmen in college. It is a mental thing but he seems very moody at times so the coaches are handling him with kid gloves.

 

[MCNPA]

 Gift was the most disappointing. He had 1(ONE) rebound I believe. That's unacceptable. Our numbers as a team were all better than nova except for a big rebounding disparity. I know we have no frontline, but Gift needs to do more to win some rebounds.

 

[Class of 72]

the kentucky starters dont have much more experience than us, they just have much better players

 

They have 2 players that played 70 games between them last season, we have nothing of the sort.

 

how many games did stith and G.G play last year?

 

HUH??
Stith played garbage time and GG played in JC---only his 2nd year of organized basketball in the States.
Was there a point you were trying to make but the gun went off and you shot yourself in the foot again?

 

[MCNPA]

 Had a great time today even after a loss to Nova. In spite of having to endure my two negative brother-in-laws, the sky is falling remarks every time we turned the ball over or missed a free throw, I think we could have easily won this game against a more experienced Nova team.
After the projected attendance remarks here I thought there would be 7 or 8,000 fans tops but the crowd was larger than I expected and it is clear that with the students back the atmosphere was more dynamic behind the backboards.

If ever our team gets just 4 of the 6 new players to play a complete game we will beat a Louisville, Nova or Cincy or Pitt any day. Unfortunate that today we got a great game from Harrison and, to an extent, Phil but the play of Gift, Pointer and Moe had only sporadic positive impact.

Phil scored some needed points today at critical times but as usual could not direct the offense and, as the point guard, held the ball too long before passing.
Gift had his worst game at the worst time. He couldn't handle the 6'10 Yarou and Pinkston and that 6'9 bull gave him fits inside. He only took two shots but will get better with a Gather's type power forward next to him. Neither Pointer nor Harkless are physical enough to help him this year. Nova had about 15 more shots than us because they got about 15 more rebounds inside.

Moe's numbers are again deceiving. Although it was obvious at the game I did not realize how little he contributed until I read the stat sheet. He had a very strong first half. He, as is his custom, disappeared for long stretches in the second half. At one point I remember D'Angelo screaming at him after losing his man and going after a loose ball soft. I have yet to see him dive for a loose ball. In the second half he scored his last meaningful basket with around 16 minutes to play. In the final 16 and in 5 minutes of overtime he scored a field goal and one free throw in 19 minutes with 4 critical turnovers. He shot 44% on 4 of 9 from the FT line and Dunlap gave him "if looks could kill" stares when he called a couple of time outs.
Bottom line is if Phil was better able to handle and pass the ball and had Moe not become passive, we would have easily won this game.

72, You unlike me bothered to go to the game today, and you deserved to have a good time. I can't say I did. Our best player goes 4 for 9 from the line, and looks to be on sedatives. DH plays every game in foul trouble because he keeps making the same mistakes. Our coach uses his last TO when we stink in the half court if we can get the ball in, but I might be out of line criticizing him. What was up with GG? If our guys fail to do what you might expect from kids at any level, it can't be fun for them either. I want them to be happy, so I'm hoping they can get another couple of wins. Eleven games left.  

 

Funny you mention that last time out! A few fans, including my SJ grad brother-in-law screamed NO!!!!!!
Our guys are terrible out of the time out because they cannot handle and the pass the ball. On the break they may have had a chance for a shot or foul. Instead the time out allowed Jay to smack his lips and set up his defense.

As for Moe Harkless, he lacks the mental toughness, aggressiveness and maturity to excel for 40 minutes. Twenty minutes is about his threshold and then he needs to sit and learn. But who do you put in that can provide offense? Jamal White? Talk of him going to the NBA is two years premature. His game actually has not changed much since his Forest Hills high school days. He was a skinny 6'6 kid who looked great for 10 minutes and then strolled around the perimeter where he would hide from contact. I understand he had that tendency at prep also. But it is mind-boggling he still is doing that as a freshmen in college. It is a mental thing but he seems very moody at times so the coaches are handling him with kid gloves.

 

For Harkless it's certainly a mental thing. That will come with maturity hopefully. Don't want him to develop the Tim Thomas syndrome. Lots of kids are shrinking violets when they are freshmen or young players. He certainly has NBA talent. He just needs a dose of D'Lo's swagger and killer instinct. I think he'll get there but needs another year or two, at which point in time he'll be a monster.

 

[illwill30]

[quote="illwill30"
Good post. I think the lack of improvements is indeed the biggest concern.
BT

 

What a ridiculous post.
Mo and Dlo while not perfect are great as freshman.
PG had a very good game today running the team even though he is a combo guard.
Amir is improving constantly.

I think we have very good improvement from 4 of the 6 new players.[/quote] 

Oh lord....

Harkless hasnt gotten any better since the beginning of the season. Actually, an argument can be made that he has hit a freshman wall. Phil Greene had a great game today...ill give you that. DeAngelo has been good all year so he's moot. GG has regressed. Stith is Sith. And for you to say Amir is improving constantly just shows how delusional you really are. The kid still has no offensive game.

The team as a whole isn't any better from a month ago... 

 

[illwill30]

 overall, the team executed very well. that's the promising part. the shots didn't fall and that MUST be addressed. it's been this way for too long, now.

 

Executed very well???/ What is wrong with some of you!!

 

[redmannorth]

Anyway, Kentucky starts 3 freshman and 2 sophs.. They are 19 and 1.. While it's likely Kentucky could beat a lot of NBA teams, they have 2, maybe 3 lottery picks.. We do not.. But, they are nearly as young and inexperienced as we are. Their results are better. quote)


Reread your post.
Kentucky starts two sophomores who played in their system last season.
We don't have anyone like those two. Their 3 freshman were all ranked much higher than Mo and DLo, who are doing great.
Our starting pg who was our leading scorer quit after 9 games.
Now you understand why Kentucky which has much more experience than us has a better record.

 



Thank you, RMN.. i did re-read my post.. If you re-read it also, you will note I'm referring to team performance not individual performance... Can you honestly say the team's performance is appreciably better than earlier in the season? Some of our kids have had great individual games, without a doubt..

St John's should have beat Nova Today and did not.. The team did not function when the game was theirs for the taking..

That's a concern in my book.


As for Kentucky.. The reference was clear as to experience levels, etc.. Which I still submit is nearly true.. Yes, the 2 sophs were there last year but, they still start 3 freshman, one less than us..Yes, their players are better but, they are still about the same age,etc as our guys.

And, my point was simply that many fans here are excusing poor team performance solely as a function of youth..I don't think that can be continued to be used as a way of explaining some team weaknesses that haven't improved,i.e foul shooting, defense,etc.

 

I know you are referring to team performance as am I.
As you said Kentucky starts 2 sophomores who played 35 games last year each. We do not return a player that started one game. So 40% of their starters have good experience while ours have none, absolutely none.
As for their bench it is exactly the same, they have a deep experienced bench, we have Malik. To top it off our starting pg quit after 9 games and we have to play a freshman combo guard at pg who is learning on the job.
They are young but have far more experience than we do, there is no discussion on that point.
You now refer to age which I can understand but your original post referred to experience.
As for the foul shooting I can't explain today's poor performance and had we made a shot or two more we would have walked away with a key win.
At the beginning of the season I had thought we would win 12 this year so I have no great disappointment and believe the team is right where they should be. If we get another top 100 frontcourt player for next season I will predict 22 wins.

 

[redmannorth]

the kentucky starters dont have much more experience than us, they just have much better players

 

They have 2 players that played 70 games between them last season, we have nothing of the sort.

 

how many games did stith and G.G play last year?

 

GG did not play a single game of D1 bball before this season.
He played against lower level jc competition.
Malik played garbage minutes for the most part.

 

[Absolutfan]

 overall, the team executed very well. that's the promising part. the shots didn't fall and that MUST be addressed. it's been this way for too long, now.

 

Executed very well???/ What is wrong with some of you!!

 

They are blinded by their loyalty. Anyway you slice it, this team has regressed and has underperformed to date. MCNPA tells of how highly rated Novas players are but guess why..... They stink! They were 9-10 before today, so I guess their players are as overrated as ours Or is the coaching suspect? I do believe the Johnnies will get better with time , that is if a legit shooter shows up, but right now, we are not a good team! Our end of game play is horrendous. But I guess the real test will be how we do against some of these same teams the second time we play them right

 

[austour]

 overall, the team executed very well. that's the promising part. the shots didn't fall and that MUST be addressed. it's been this way for too long, now.

 

Executed very well???/ What is wrong with some of you!!

 

They are blinded by their loyalty. Anyway you slice it, this team has regressed and has underperformed to date. MCNPA tells of how highly rated Novas players are but guess why..... They stink! They were 9-10 before today, so I guess their players are as overrated as ours Or is the coaching suspect? I do believe the Johnnies will get better with time , that is if a legit shooter shows up, but right now, we are not a good team! Our end of game play is horrendous. But I guess the real test will be how we do against some of these same teams the second time we play them right

 

No the test will be when they can field a real team with a front line and a PG plus some experience. Right now they're a pick up game team. Guys playing out of position all over the court. Anyone who expected anything more than an outside shot at a .500 season coming in was delusional.

 

[MJDinkins]

 overall, the team executed very well. that's the promising part. the shots didn't fall and that MUST be addressed. it's been this way for too long, now.

 

Executed very well???/ What is wrong with some of you!!

 

They are blinded by their loyalty. Anyway you slice it, this team has regressed and has underperformed to date. MCNPA tells of how highly rated Novas players are but guess why..... They stink! They were 9-10 before today, so I guess their players are as overrated as ours Or is the coaching suspect? I do believe the Johnnies will get better with time , that is if a legit shooter shows up, but right now, we are not a good team! Our end of game play is horrendous. But I guess the real test will be how we do against some of these same teams the second time we play them right

 

No the test will be when they can field a real team with a front line and a PG plus some experience. Right now they're a pick up game team. Guys playing out of position all over the court. Anyone who expected anything more than an outside shot at a .500 season coming in was delusional.

 

No need to continue to make solid points to the delusional, austour. Most of us know we currently do not have a good team, but we have a good foundation. Unfortunately, there are a handful posters who either doesn't know anything about the game; over-the-top silly; or both.

 

[Class of 72]

 overall, the team executed very well. that's the promising part. the shots didn't fall and that MUST be addressed. it's been this way for too long, now.

 

Executed very well???/ What is wrong with some of you!!

 

They are blinded by their loyalty. Anyway you slice it, this team has regressed and has underperformed to date. MCNPA tells of how highly rated Novas players are but guess why..... They stink! They were 9-10 before today, so I guess their players are as overrated as ours Or is the coaching suspect? I do believe the Johnnies will get better with time , that is if a legit shooter shows up, but right now, we are not a good team! Our end of game play is horrendous. But I guess the real test will be how we do against some of these same teams the second time we play them right

 

No the test will be when they can field a real team with a front line and a PG plus some experience. Right now they're a pick up game team. Guys playing out of position all over the court. Anyone who expected anything more than an outside shot at a .500 season coming in was delusional.

 

+1
We are lacking a center, a point guard and power forward to compliment the current group.
Pelle never made it here. Lindsey was really a 2 guard but could not shoot to save himself and Sampson could have given Moe Harkless some competition for minutes and have him work harder for his minutes.
We have a true PG on the way in Jamal---check.
We have a shot at Chris O for the center position---check.
We still have a strong shot at PF Gathers----check.
Add another quality big forward with length and a solid combo player and next year some of the critics will claim the redmen were their team all along and will start using terms of endearment like they never waivered as fans......but we will remember who they are! LOL!

 

[SJUhoopNUT]

The only people who are unhapy with this team are the ones who had unreasonable expectations to start the year. Honestly, once we lost Pelle and Jakarr I scaled back my expectations. But even before that, you can't expect a whole new freshmen team to just step in and compete every night a high level. It's going to take at least another recruiting class and maybe 3. Doesn't happen overnight, even with a top 5 recruiting class.

The important thing is Lavin keeps recruiting to find what we need for next year, which we know he is, and the kids keep working hard, which I know they will.

It sucks because last year we all got a taste of success. So this year is definitely a test of patience, but it's just where we are as a program. Next season though, I'm expecting more.







 

 

[guru]

 Loved how we played today!! We are vat our best when we get out and push!! Once we slow down we are done, great step in the right direction.... We branch plus 3 big time recruits away from beng a really good national presence

 

[Absolutfan]

 So in other words, if one disagrees with the opinions of certain positive ( blinded by loyalty) fans, their opinion is worthless or they know nothing of basketball...... Now that's about as ignorant a statement that I have ever seen on this site. One has to be blind not to recognize the present deficiencies of this team. If you choose to excuse it, that's fine as I said that the team will improve in the future but to constantly make excuses for poor performance and or coaching strategies does nothing to help your credibility or your own knowledge of the game. I know of a few posters on this site who are activly involved in the game on a coaching and scouting level. Their opinions are unbiassed and purely based on their observations, not blind loyalty and they presently see more than a few obvious issues with this team. And just ask yourself this, if this was a Norm Roberts coached team, would you all be so easy on them? Me thinks not.

 

[guinness77]

 So in other words, if one disagrees with the opinions of certain positive ( blinded by loyalty) fans, their opinion is worthless or they know nothing of basketball...... Now that's about as ignorant a statement that I have ever seen on this site. One has to be blind not to recognize the present deficiencies of this team. If you choose to excuse it, that's fine as I said that the team will improve in the future but to constantly make excuses for poor performance and or coaching strategies does nothing to help your credibility or your own knowledge of the game. I know of a few posters on this site who are activly involved in the game on a coaching and scouting level. Their opinions are unbiassed and purely based on their observations, not blind loyalty and they presently see more than a few obvious issues with this team. And just ask yourself this, if this was a Norm Roberts coached team, would you all be so easy on them? Me thinks not.

 

Since you didn't have the nerve to quote a particular poster, I'll take it upon myself to point out to you that I played at a high enough level to have played against at least 40 or 50 DI players, got recruited by several DI programs, played against a handful of NBA players, so if you are aiming this at a poster like myself, I suggest you stop making assumptions about who knows what or who knows who.

And, yes, if you think we have a good shot at being anymore than a .500 team with 6 freakin' players, one guy on the bench and NO SIZE, then YOU DON'T KNOW anything about this sport.
It's like bringing a slingshot to a World War.  We get dominated on the glass, both sides of the court, nightly. That will change next season. FTR, I think Dunlap called some very questionable time outs. 9 seconds left in regulation, and the time out with a minute and a half left in overtime.

 

[newsman13]

 overall, the team executed very well. that's the promising part. the shots didn't fall and that MUST be addressed. it's been this way for too long, now.

 

Executed very well???/ What is wrong with some of you!!

 

what's wrong with me is i actually watch the games. we're not being outclassed by any stretch. the other problems have been addressed very well by others. no need to repeat.

 

[tom in salem]

 So in other words, if one disagrees with the opinions of certain positive ( blinded by loyalty) fans, their opinion is worthless or they know nothing of basketball...... Now that's about as ignorant a statement that I have ever seen on this site. One has to be blind not to recognize the present deficiencies of this team. If you choose to excuse it, that's fine as I said that the team will improve in the future but to constantly make excuses for poor performance and or coaching strategies does nothing to help your credibility or your own knowledge of the game. I know of a few posters on this site who are activly involved in the game on a coaching and scouting level. Their opinions are unbiassed and purely based on their observations, not blind loyalty and they presently see more than a few obvious issues with this team. And just ask yourself this, if this was a Norm Roberts coached team, would you all be so easy on them? Me thinks not.

 

If this was a Norm Roberts coached team, Stith would be the best player.

 

[guinness77]

 So in other words, if one disagrees with the opinions of certain positive ( blinded by loyalty) fans, their opinion is worthless or they know nothing of basketball...... Now that's about as ignorant a statement that I have ever seen on this site. One has to be blind not to recognize the present deficiencies of this team. If you choose to excuse it, that's fine as I said that the team will improve in the future but to constantly make excuses for poor performance and or coaching strategies does nothing to help your credibility or your own knowledge of the game. I know of a few posters on this site who are activly involved in the game on a coaching and scouting level. Their opinions are unbiassed and purely based on their observations, not blind loyalty and they presently see more than a few obvious issues with this team. And just ask yourself this, if this was a Norm Roberts coached team, would you all be so easy on them? Me thinks not.

 

If this was a Norm Roberts coached team, Stith would be the best player.

 

Norm Roberts also had 11 players and a full bench. No matter how out of their competition level his players were, there were 11 of them, and a couple of bigs.
I usually don't let MB crap bother me, but the flat out stubbornness of some people on this board is ridiculous. 
They are almost all freshmen, have gone from playing 32 minutes to 40 minutes with no one on the bench to give them a blow. I don't care how "in shape" you are, when you're 18 years old, playing against guys who are 20, bigger, and have the ABILITY to get rested because they have the benefit of a BENCH, it's a humongous difference. HUGE. Even when our one bench guy goes in, he "sits," what? 3 real time minutes, tops?

 

[ZanMan]

 It is crystal clear how tired these guys are in the later stages of the game. You can see it in their legs as they are going up for shots and layups. If we were deeper, we would have kept the lead tyat we had with 6 mins remaining yesterday. Hopefully, next year tells a much different story, especially with a legit player at the 1.