Nov 8, 2016 - The lesser of two evils?

[JohnnyFan]

His closest advisors are his family. This is not a family business, it is the United States of America

Ted, a drunk bloated murderer and creditably accused rapist who 38 years ago this week said "When I returned Mary Jo and the car were gone" after he left a young woman to drown in shallow water to save his presidential ambitions.

I watched a documentary this past week in regards to what transpired in Chappaquiddick...its a joke what this guy got away with.. Not only what he got away with but was able to still have a career in politics. That girl was alive for a few hours in an air pocket in the submerged vehicle.. She suffered a horrible prolonged death because of that piece of shit... But hey, dems and libs only worry about "serious" issues..

Look over here......pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

 

[SI1996]

I get why people dislike Trump, I really do. Although not to the degree that many do. What I don't get is why people so desperately want to see him fail. That is beyond my comprehension. But the older I get, the more stuff I don't get.

People want him to fail because they do not share his vision for the country. It's not different from when people wanted Obama to fail. The difference is that, in the former case, opponents want to use that failure to attack Trump and embarrass him.

Oh, and there's a Viagra joke in there somewhere...

I didn't vote for Obama, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt when he was elected and I supported him for a few years until I gradually started to feel that he was the worst President in my lifetime. I still didn't want him to fail, I simply started to really dislike him. In addition to disagreeing with most of his politics, I found him to be a smug, pompous, dismissive asshole. I guess you could say that my feelings for Obama, over time, became similar to how people feel about Trump. Except I wanted Obama to succeed when he was first elected. Most on the left never wanted Trump to succeed. And I sure as hell did not insult, denigrate and/or attack Obama supporters, the way so many democrats do to Trump supporters.

Best post on this thread. +1

 

[fuchsia]

And to think, I was just going to respond with "can anybody spot the cognitive dissonance?"

If the mentally ill knew they were insane they'd be cured.

Unfortunately, not the case much of the time,

 

[stjohnschris]

And one other thing: out to dinner tonight with a high school friend of mine who I reconnected with after many years. The guy is musician. He said to me "Mark, you know many musician friends I lost when they found out I was a Republican?". I said "Jim, obviously they weren't real friends to begin with. You're better off without them". A friend of mine's niece plays college basketball for one of the local teams. Not going to mention the school. At dinner a few months back she said to me "I could never let anyone on my team know I'm a republican or I'd be made to be an outcast. They hate Republicans at my school and especially on the team. I have to keep that to myself". Imagine that? A college kid afraid to mention her political affiliation, and right here in NYC, the city of tolerance. And on the campus of a school which is at the forefront of preaching tolerance. These are only two small examples. What a crock of hypocritical bullshit.

I've worked in the music biz my entire adult life...15 years as a touring musician, and the last 10 in more of the business side of things. There's nobody in my very large circle in the Northeast who has openly come out and said they support Trump, not during the campaign and not during his time in office. I know a small handful of them are republican, and as far as I know, are still Republicans. They don't believe our president represents their party well, and that's about as far as that discussion goes. They separate, to some extent, their support of their party and their support of the president. I do know some folks in my business in TN and TX who support the current administration, but they don't wear it on their sleeve. In Nashville, the subject is completely taboo (do a quick google search of where country musicians stand on Trump...you'll see a lot of "crickets"). I have many contacts in Nashville, and with the exception of a small handful of country stars, nobody has come out publicly "for" or "against" anything or anyone. My friends in Nashville say the whole thing is too "toxic" to touch, and it would potentially undermine business relations, and alienate fan bases in a fickle industry. New York music and arts business is loud and clear about their opposition. For my part, I'll admit that I had more tolerance in January than I do now (yes, I'm a Dem).

Its easy to be loud and clear about your opposition when you're surrounded by like-minded individuals, and when it doesn't effect your pocket, which is the case for the NYC music and arts business.

Not even remotely close to true...just the mere threat of budget cuts for government arts funding from the current administration has affected my pocket and many many others. Very few people truly understand just how fragile music, theater, film, and the visual arts business is. Everyone expects to be able to go see a Broadway show, a Billy Joel concert, a ground breaking cutting edge indie film, or an exciting emerging sculptor, but the willingness to fund/support all of the infrastructure needed to nurture and develop natural talent is severely lacking.

 

[panther2]

I get why people dislike Trump, I really do. Although not to the degree that many do. What I don't get is why people so desperately want to see him fail. That is beyond my comprehension. But the older I get, the more stuff I don't get.

I don't want him to fail, my fear is that he will self destruct and cause this country extreme harm. My hope was that after he was elected, he would surround himself with knowledgeable people and make the economic changes that he promised.

His closest advisors are his family. This is not a family business, it is the United States of America. His cabinet choices have been horrendous, DeVos as Secretary of Education. The Charter schools that she advocated for in Michigan are among the worse in the country with absolutely no oversight. Exxon/Mobil has just been fined millions of dollars for breaking sanctions with Russia while Tillerson was CEO.

Why he is afraid to release his taxes is something I can't understand. You are the President, you should have nothing to hide. The abundance of contradictory statements by those close to him are definitely a cause for concern.

Trump is a walking contradiction, the same week that he spoke about having goods made in America, it was revealed that none of his or his daughter's products are made in this country.

He talks about creating jobs but his properties Mar A Lago and his golf courses are applying for visas for foreigners to work there, hypocrisy at its finest.

Just finished reading an article about how money from the Russian Mafia was used to buy an inordinate number of Trump properties in the 90's when he was undergoing numerous bankruptcy procedures.

So Monte, I do not want Trump to fail because of the negative effect it will have on our country. However, I can see him self destructing because he is the perfect example of the "Peter Principle".

You make some valid points. Not saying that I don't have my concerns and doubts as well. But IMO it's way to early to pass judgement. I'll say this for his tax returns: his supporters could care less if he releases them. Which leaves his enemies. Now why in God's name would he release his tax returns and give his enemies anything more to attack him over? Releasing his returns can do absolutely no good, and lots of bad. You telling me that if he releases them and they're totally above board that it's going to change one thing? It won't. So why release them? As for contradictory statements and hypocrisy, you know as well as I do that politicians by nature are full of crap, and hypocrites. The only difference between Trump and career politicians is that career politicians have a lot more practice at it.

Monte, while we all know that politicians are full of crap. Trump is the ultimate hypocrite, he states he is a proponent of Made in America and none of his products are made here. He claims that he is on the side of American Labor but asks for Visas for foreigners to come work at Mar A Largo and his golf courses.He has zero credibility.

Trump apologists need to stop defending the indefensible.

 

[mjmaherjr]

Stjohnschris is Puff Daddy ?

 

[logen]

And one other thing: out to dinner tonight with a high school friend of mine who I reconnected with after many years. The guy is musician. He said to me "Mark, you know many musician friends I lost when they found out I was a Republican?". I said "Jim, obviously they weren't real friends to begin with. You're better off without them". A friend of mine's niece plays college basketball for one of the local teams. Not going to mention the school. At dinner a few months back she said to me "I could never let anyone on my team know I'm a republican or I'd be made to be an outcast. They hate Republicans at my school and especially on the team. I have to keep that to myself". Imagine that? A college kid afraid to mention her political affiliation, and right here in NYC, the city of tolerance. And on the campus of a school which is at the forefront of preaching tolerance. These are only two small examples. What a crock of hypocritical bullshit.

I've worked in the music biz my entire adult life...15 years as a touring musician, and the last 10 in more of the business side of things. There's nobody in my very large circle in the Northeast who has openly come out and said they support Trump, not during the campaign and not during his time in office. I know a small handful of them are republican, and as far as I know, are still Republicans. They don't believe our president represents their party well, and that's about as far as that discussion goes. They separate, to some extent, their support of their party and their support of the president. I do know some folks in my business in TN and TX who support the current administration, but they don't wear it on their sleeve. In Nashville, the subject is completely taboo (do a quick google search of where country musicians stand on Trump...you'll see a lot of "crickets"). I have many contacts in Nashville, and with the exception of a small handful of country stars, nobody has come out publicly "for" or "against" anything or anyone. My friends in Nashville say the whole thing is too "toxic" to touch, and it would potentially undermine business relations, and alienate fan bases in a fickle industry. New York music and arts business is loud and clear about their opposition. For my part, I'll admit that I had more tolerance in January than I do now (yes, I'm a Dem).

Its easy to be loud and clear about your opposition when you're surrounded by like-minded individuals, and when it doesn't effect your pocket, which is the case for the NYC music and arts business.

Not even remotely close to true...just the mere threat of budget cuts for government arts funding from the current administration has affected my pocket and many many others. Very few people truly understand just how fragile music, theater, film, and the visual arts business is. Everyone expects to be able to go see a Broadway show, a Billy Joel concert, a ground breaking cutting edge indie film, or an exciting emerging sculptor, but the willingness to fund/support all of the infrastructure needed to nurture and develop natural talent is severely lacking.

And why should the government use OUR money to pay to develop "natural talent" anymore than they should have paid for my daughter to become a teacher or my son an electrician? The government has no business in 90% of the things they "fund". The federal budget is nothing more than a shell game, an opportunity for career politicians to get RICH conning taxpayers when the only people they are really there to please is BIG MONEY. And that is from both sides of the aisle. D.C. needs to be cleaned out and it might be too late to do that. We shall see.

 

[JohnnyFan]

Whoops, did I post this by accident? Sorry about that. Sometimes I see funny memes and tend to share.

 

[monte]

I get why people dislike Trump, I really do. Although not to the degree that many do. What I don't get is why people so desperately want to see him fail. That is beyond my comprehension. But the older I get, the more stuff I don't get.

I don't want him to fail, my fear is that he will self destruct and cause this country extreme harm. My hope was that after he was elected, he would surround himself with knowledgeable people and make the economic changes that he promised.

His closest advisors are his family. This is not a family business, it is the United States of America. His cabinet choices have been horrendous, DeVos as Secretary of Education. The Charter schools that she advocated for in Michigan are among the worse in the country with absolutely no oversight. Exxon/Mobil has just been fined millions of dollars for breaking sanctions with Russia while Tillerson was CEO.

Why he is afraid to release his taxes is something I can't understand. You are the President, you should have nothing to hide. The abundance of contradictory statements by those close to him are definitely a cause for concern.

Trump is a walking contradiction, the same week that he spoke about having goods made in America, it was revealed that none of his or his daughter's products are made in this country.

He talks about creating jobs but his properties Mar A Lago and his golf courses are applying for visas for foreigners to work there, hypocrisy at its finest.

Just finished reading an article about how money from the Russian Mafia was used to buy an inordinate number of Trump properties in the 90's when he was undergoing numerous bankruptcy procedures.

So Monte, I do not want Trump to fail because of the negative effect it will have on our country. However, I can see him self destructing because he is the perfect example of the "Peter Principle".

You make some valid points. Not saying that I don't have my concerns and doubts as well. But IMO it's way to early to pass judgement. I'll say this for his tax returns: his supporters could care less if he releases them. Which leaves his enemies. Now why in God's name would he release his tax returns and give his enemies anything more to attack him over? Releasing his returns can do absolutely no good, and lots of bad. You telling me that if he releases them and they're totally above board that it's going to change one thing? It won't. So why release them? As for contradictory statements and hypocrisy, you know as well as I do that politicians by nature are full of crap, and hypocrites. The only difference between Trump and career politicians is that career politicians have a lot more practice at it.

Monte, while we all know that politicians are full of crap. Trump is the ultimate hypocrite, he states he is a proponent of Made in America and none of his products are made here. He claims that he is on the side of American Labor but asks for Visas for foreigners to come work at Mar A Largo and his golf courses.He has zero credibility.

Trump apologists need to stop defending the indefensible.

I am not an apologist and I most certainly am not defending him Panther. But lets face facts here, Trump would not be in office if not for Obama, Hillary, the democratic party and the know-it-all liberals, all of whom much of the country got sick and tired of after 8 years. Trump is likely not the answer(does that sound like the words of an apologist?), but we know already that Obama was a failure and Hillary is a train wreck. The democratic party was/is in shambles. Sometimes people are willing to roll the dice and hope for the best, as opposed to accepting the status quo.

 

[monte]

And one other thing: out to dinner tonight with a high school friend of mine who I reconnected with after many years. The guy is musician. He said to me "Mark, you know many musician friends I lost when they found out I was a Republican?". I said "Jim, obviously they weren't real friends to begin with. You're better off without them". A friend of mine's niece plays college basketball for one of the local teams. Not going to mention the school. At dinner a few months back she said to me "I could never let anyone on my team know I'm a republican or I'd be made to be an outcast. They hate Republicans at my school and especially on the team. I have to keep that to myself". Imagine that? A college kid afraid to mention her political affiliation, and right here in NYC, the city of tolerance. And on the campus of a school which is at the forefront of preaching tolerance. These are only two small examples. What a crock of hypocritical bullshit.

I've worked in the music biz my entire adult life...15 years as a touring musician, and the last 10 in more of the business side of things. There's nobody in my very large circle in the Northeast who has openly come out and said they support Trump, not during the campaign and not during his time in office. I know a small handful of them are republican, and as far as I know, are still Republicans. They don't believe our president represents their party well, and that's about as far as that discussion goes. They separate, to some extent, their support of their party and their support of the president. I do know some folks in my business in TN and TX who support the current administration, but they don't wear it on their sleeve. In Nashville, the subject is completely taboo (do a quick google search of where country musicians stand on Trump...you'll see a lot of "crickets"). I have many contacts in Nashville, and with the exception of a small handful of country stars, nobody has come out publicly "for" or "against" anything or anyone. My friends in Nashville say the whole thing is too "toxic" to touch, and it would potentially undermine business relations, and alienate fan bases in a fickle industry. New York music and arts business is loud and clear about their opposition. For my part, I'll admit that I had more tolerance in January than I do now (yes, I'm a Dem).

Its easy to be loud and clear about your opposition when you're surrounded by like-minded individuals, and when it doesn't effect your pocket, which is the case for the NYC music and arts business.

Not even remotely close to true...just the mere threat of budget cuts for government arts funding from the current administration has affected my pocket and many many others. Very few people truly understand just how fragile music, theater, film, and the visual arts business is. Everyone expects to be able to go see a Broadway show, a Billy Joel concert, a ground breaking cutting edge indie film, or an exciting emerging sculptor, but the willingness to fund/support all of the infrastructure needed to nurture and develop natural talent is severely lacking.

Don't think we're talking about the same thing here. You think the cast of Hamilton calls out the Vice President of the United States during a show in a Republican town? Or a Democratic leader in this town? They wouldn't
, because it would effect ticket sales. As for taxpayers funding artists, what's your thoughts on your tax dollars going to support the "work of art"(I use that term very loosely) below. Better yet, what's your thoughts on the artist being permitted to exhibit such a repulsive piece of garbage in public? Because you can best be sure that the liberal left in this town who supported this clown would be tearing NYC apart if this was another religion being desecrated. Quoting the great Panther "hypocrisy at it's finest".


[attachment]PissChrist.jpg[/attachment]

 

[panther2]

I get why people dislike Trump, I really do. Although not to the degree that many do. What I don't get is why people so desperately want to see him fail. That is beyond my comprehension. But the older I get, the more stuff I don't get.

I don't want him to fail, my fear is that he will self destruct and cause this country extreme harm. My hope was that after he was elected, he would surround himself with knowledgeable people and make the economic changes that he promised.

His closest advisors are his family. This is not a family business, it is the United States of America. His cabinet choices have been horrendous, DeVos as Secretary of Education. The Charter schools that she advocated for in Michigan are among the worse in the country with absolutely no oversight. Exxon/Mobil has just been fined millions of dollars for breaking sanctions with Russia while Tillerson was CEO.

Why he is afraid to release his taxes is something I can't understand. You are the President, you should have nothing to hide. The abundance of contradictory statements by those close to him are definitely a cause for concern.

Trump is a walking contradiction, the same week that he spoke about having goods made in America, it was revealed that none of his or his daughter's products are made in this country.

He talks about creating jobs but his properties Mar A Lago and his golf courses are applying for visas for foreigners to work there, hypocrisy at its finest.

Just finished reading an article about how money from the Russian Mafia was used to buy an inordinate number of Trump properties in the 90's when he was undergoing numerous bankruptcy procedures.

So Monte, I do not want Trump to fail because of the negative effect it will have on our country. However, I can see him self destructing because he is the perfect example of the "Peter Principle".

You make some valid points. Not saying that I don't have my concerns and doubts as well. But IMO it's way to early to pass judgement. I'll say this for his tax returns: his supporters could care less if he releases them. Which leaves his enemies. Now why in God's name would he release his tax returns and give his enemies anything more to attack him over? Releasing his returns can do absolutely no good, and lots of bad. You telling me that if he releases them and they're totally above board that it's going to change one thing? It won't. So why release them? As for contradictory statements and hypocrisy, you know as well as I do that politicians by nature are full of crap, and hypocrites. The only difference between Trump and career politicians is that career politicians have a lot more practice at it.

Monte, while we all know that politicians are full of crap. Trump is the ultimate hypocrite, he states he is a proponent of Made in America and none of his products are made here. He claims that he is on the side of American Labor but asks for Visas for foreigners to come work at Mar A Largo and his golf courses.He has zero credibility.

Trump apologists need to stop defending the indefensible.

I am not an apologist and I most certainly am not defending him Panther. But lets face facts here, Trump would not be in office if not for Obama, Hillary, the democratic party and the know-it'all liberals, all of whom much of the country got sick and tired of after 8 years. Trump is likely not the answer(does that sound like the words of an apologist?), but we know already that Obama was a failure and Hillary was/is a train wreck. The democratic party was/is in shambles. Sometimes people are willing to roll the dice and hope for the best, as opposed to accepting the status quo.

When the dice come up snake eyes, it is time to make a change. Trump is a total abomination. Y'all crapped out.

 

[monte]

I get why people dislike Trump, I really do. Although not to the degree that many do. What I don't get is why people so desperately want to see him fail. That is beyond my comprehension. But the older I get, the more stuff I don't get.

I don't want him to fail, my fear is that he will self destruct and cause this country extreme harm. My hope was that after he was elected, he would surround himself with knowledgeable people and make the economic changes that he promised.

His closest advisors are his family. This is not a family business, it is the United States of America. His cabinet choices have been horrendous, DeVos as Secretary of Education. The Charter schools that she advocated for in Michigan are among the worse in the country with absolutely no oversight. Exxon/Mobil has just been fined millions of dollars for breaking sanctions with Russia while Tillerson was CEO.

Why he is afraid to release his taxes is something I can't understand. You are the President, you should have nothing to hide. The abundance of contradictory statements by those close to him are definitely a cause for concern.

Trump is a walking contradiction, the same week that he spoke about having goods made in America, it was revealed that none of his or his daughter's products are made in this country.

He talks about creating jobs but his properties Mar A Lago and his golf courses are applying for visas for foreigners to work there, hypocrisy at its finest.

Just finished reading an article about how money from the Russian Mafia was used to buy an inordinate number of Trump properties in the 90's when he was undergoing numerous bankruptcy procedures.

So Monte, I do not want Trump to fail because of the negative effect it will have on our country. However, I can see him self destructing because he is the perfect example of the "Peter Principle".

You make some valid points. Not saying that I don't have my concerns and doubts as well. But IMO it's way to early to pass judgement. I'll say this for his tax returns: his supporters could care less if he releases them. Which leaves his enemies. Now why in God's name would he release his tax returns and give his enemies anything more to attack him over? Releasing his returns can do absolutely no good, and lots of bad. You telling me that if he releases them and they're totally above board that it's going to change one thing? It won't. So why release them? As for contradictory statements and hypocrisy, you know as well as I do that politicians by nature are full of crap, and hypocrites. The only difference between Trump and career politicians is that career politicians have a lot more practice at it.

Monte, while we all know that politicians are full of crap. Trump is the ultimate hypocrite, he states he is a proponent of Made in America and none of his products are made here. He claims that he is on the side of American Labor but asks for Visas for foreigners to come work at Mar A Largo and his golf courses.He has zero credibility.

Trump apologists need to stop defending the indefensible.

I am not an apologist and I most certainly am not defending him Panther. But lets face facts here, Trump would not be in office if not for Obama, Hillary, the democratic party and the know-it'all liberals, all of whom much of the country got sick and tired of after 8 years. Trump is likely not the answer(does that sound like the words of an apologist?), but we know already that Obama was a failure and Hillary was/is a train wreck. The democratic party was/is in shambles. Sometimes people are willing to roll the dice and hope for the best, as opposed to accepting the status quo.

When the dice come up snake eyes, it is time to make a change. Trump is a total abomination. Y'all crapped out.

You tell me exactly how your life has changed for the worse in the last 7 months, or anyone you know who's life has changed for the worse, and how this country is in worst shape now than it was under Obama and the Dems, and maybe you can persuade me that this experiment has failed. Other than that, I'll ride this thing out for a while longer before declaring it a failure. But I will say this, if the republican party had been up Obama's ass from the moment he was elected, the way the democratic party has been up Trump's ass, it probably wouldn't have taken me 2 years to figure out he was a failure. So I do kind of see your point.

 

[panther2]

I get why people dislike Trump, I really do. Although not to the degree that many do. What I don't get is why people so desperately want to see him fail. That is beyond my comprehension. But the older I get, the more stuff I don't get.

I don't want him to fail, my fear is that he will self destruct and cause this country extreme harm. My hope was that after he was elected, he would surround himself with knowledgeable people and make the economic changes that he promised.

His closest advisors are his family. This is not a family business, it is the United States of America. His cabinet choices have been horrendous, DeVos as Secretary of Education. The Charter schools that she advocated for in Michigan are among the worse in the country with absolutely no oversight. Exxon/Mobil has just been fined millions of dollars for breaking sanctions with Russia while Tillerson was CEO.

Why he is afraid to release his taxes is something I can't understand. You are the President, you should have nothing to hide. The abundance of contradictory statements by those close to him are definitely a cause for concern.

Trump is a walking contradiction, the same week that he spoke about having goods made in America, it was revealed that none of his or his daughter's products are made in this country.

He talks about creating jobs but his properties Mar A Lago and his golf courses are applying for visas for foreigners to work there, hypocrisy at its finest.

Just finished reading an article about how money from the Russian Mafia was used to buy an inordinate number of Trump properties in the 90's when he was undergoing numerous bankruptcy procedures.

So Monte, I do not want Trump to fail because of the negative effect it will have on our country. However, I can see him self destructing because he is the perfect example of the "Peter Principle".

You make some valid points. Not saying that I don't have my concerns and doubts as well. But IMO it's way to early to pass judgement. I'll say this for his tax returns: his supporters could care less if he releases them. Which leaves his enemies. Now why in God's name would he release his tax returns and give his enemies anything more to attack him over? Releasing his returns can do absolutely no good, and lots of bad. You telling me that if he releases them and they're totally above board that it's going to change one thing? It won't. So why release them? As for contradictory statements and hypocrisy, you know as well as I do that politicians by nature are full of crap, and hypocrites. The only difference between Trump and career politicians is that career politicians have a lot more practice at it.

Monte, while we all know that politicians are full of crap. Trump is the ultimate hypocrite, he states he is a proponent of Made in America and none of his products are made here. He claims that he is on the side of American Labor but asks for Visas for foreigners to come work at Mar A Largo and his golf courses.He has zero credibility.

Trump apologists need to stop defending the indefensible.

I am not an apologist and I most certainly am not defending him Panther. But lets face facts here, Trump would not be in office if not for Obama, Hillary, the democratic party and the know-it'all liberals, all of whom much of the country got sick and tired of after 8 years. Trump is likely not the answer(does that sound like the words of an apologist?), but we know already that Obama was a failure and Hillary was/is a train wreck. The democratic party was/is in shambles. Sometimes people are willing to roll the dice and hope for the best, as opposed to accepting the status quo.

When the dice come up snake eyes, it is time to make a change. Trump is a total abomination. Y'all crapped out.

You tell me exactly how your life has changed for the worse in the last 7 months, or anyone you know who's life has changed for the worse, and how this country is in worst shape now than it was under Obama and the Dems, and maybe you can persuade me that this experiment has failed. Other than that, I'll ride this thing out for a while longer before declaring it a failure. But I will say this, if the republican party had been up Obama's ass from the moment he was elected, the way the democratic party has been up Trump's ass, it probably wouldn't have taken me 2 years to figure out he was a failure. So I do kind of see your point.

My personal life has not changed for the worse since Bush 1 was President. I am not worried about my life but I am worried about what will happen to the younger generations of my family with this incompetent idiot as President.

 

[mjmaherjr]

I get why people dislike Trump, I really do. Although not to the degree that many do. What I don't get is why people so desperately want to see him fail. That is beyond my comprehension. But the older I get, the more stuff I don't get.

I don't want him to fail, my fear is that he will self destruct and cause this country extreme harm. My hope was that after he was elected, he would surround himself with knowledgeable people and make the economic changes that he promised.

His closest advisors are his family. This is not a family business, it is the United States of America. His cabinet choices have been horrendous, DeVos as Secretary of Education. The Charter schools that she advocated for in Michigan are among the worse in the country with absolutely no oversight. Exxon/Mobil has just been fined millions of dollars for breaking sanctions with Russia while Tillerson was CEO.

Why he is afraid to release his taxes is something I can't understand. You are the President, you should have nothing to hide. The abundance of contradictory statements by those close to him are definitely a cause for concern.

Trump is a walking contradiction, the same week that he spoke about having goods made in America, it was revealed that none of his or his daughter's products are made in this country.

He talks about creating jobs but his properties Mar A Lago and his golf courses are applying for visas for foreigners to work there, hypocrisy at its finest.

Just finished reading an article about how money from the Russian Mafia was used to buy an inordinate number of Trump properties in the 90's when he was undergoing numerous bankruptcy procedures.

So Monte, I do not want Trump to fail because of the negative effect it will have on our country. However, I can see him self destructing because he is the perfect example of the "Peter Principle".

You make some valid points. Not saying that I don't have my concerns and doubts as well. But IMO it's way to early to pass judgement. I'll say this for his tax returns: his supporters could care less if he releases them. Which leaves his enemies. Now why in God's name would he release his tax returns and give his enemies anything more to attack him over? Releasing his returns can do absolutely no good, and lots of bad. You telling me that if he releases them and they're totally above board that it's going to change one thing? It won't. So why release them? As for contradictory statements and hypocrisy, you know as well as I do that politicians by nature are full of crap, and hypocrites. The only difference between Trump and career politicians is that career politicians have a lot more practice at it.

Monte, while we all know that politicians are full of crap. Trump is the ultimate hypocrite, he states he is a proponent of Made in America and none of his products are made here. He claims that he is on the side of American Labor but asks for Visas for foreigners to come work at Mar A Largo and his golf courses.He has zero credibility.

Trump apologists need to stop defending the indefensible.

I am not an apologist and I most certainly am not defending him Panther. But lets face facts here, Trump would not be in office if not for Obama, Hillary, the democratic party and the know-it'all liberals, all of whom much of the country got sick and tired of after 8 years. Trump is likely not the answer(does that sound like the words of an apologist?), but we know already that Obama was a failure and Hillary was/is a train wreck. The democratic party was/is in shambles. Sometimes people are willing to roll the dice and hope for the best, as opposed to accepting the status quo.

When the dice come up snake eyes, it is time to make a change. Trump is a total abomination. Y'all crapped out.

You tell me exactly how your life has changed for the worse in the last 7 months, or anyone you know who's life has changed for the worse, and how this country is in worst shape now than it was under Obama and the Dems, and maybe you can persuade me that this experiment has failed. Other than that, I'll ride this thing out for a while longer before declaring it a failure. But I will say this, if the republican party had been up Obama's ass from the moment he was elected, the way the democratic party has been up Trump's ass, it probably wouldn't have taken me 2 years to figure out he was a failure. So I do kind of see your point.

My personal life has not changed for the worse since Bush 1 was President. I am not worried about my life but I am worried about what will happen to the younger generations of my family with this incompetent idiot as President.

Personally I'd be blaming the last 2 presidents just as much because of the mind boggling amount of debt they have accumulated that the younger generations of your family now owe.

Unfortunately I've been saying this on this board for the last 16 or or so years and it just gets worse and worse

 

[fun]

And why should the government use OUR money to pay to develop "natural talent" anymore than they should have paid for my daughter to become a teacher or my son an electrician? The government has no business in 90% of the things they "fund". The federal budget is nothing more than a shell game, an opportunity for career politicians to get RICH conning taxpayers when the only people they are really there to please is BIG MONEY. And that is from both sides of the aisle. D.C. needs to be cleaned out and it might be too late to do that. We shall see.

I agree with you about the government being a leviathan with an insatiable appetite for its subjects liberty and property, and that that is an abomination and antithetical to the idea of a free and representative republic. But let's be real: the government does pay for daughters and sons to become teachers and electricians through guaranteed student loans and grants and subsidies and tax breaks for "non profit" colleges and now in New York "free" tuition. The problem with government subsidies for the arts - and I say this as the proud owner of several music degrees and the jagged repulsive teeth of a professional saxophone player - is that when the government picks winners and losers in the arts not only does it picks losers - that is, in the main it subsidizes bad art - but the philistines who do the picking choose art that's offensive to the values that the government should be promulgating. Consider: the federal government sponsored an art exhibit that submerged the baby jesus in a vat of urine; the state government sponsored an art exhibit that portrayed the mother of the baby jesus festooned in dung ("art" which recently sold for 5 million dollars at auction btw). And meanwhile a painting of the baby jesus not in dung and not submerged in any bodily fluids left outside a mosque on Long Island is being investigated as a hate crime. If I painted a picture of the prophet M__h____d using my own feces I'd be prosecuted and then murdered by zealots. Whereas if I painted a similar picture of Pope Leo XII I'd win various awards. That's the problem with funding the arts: no one knows what art is and least of all civil servants.

 

[fun]

Y'all crapped out.

Although not as badly as the crybabies who failed to nominate a candidate who could beat him and now whine about it incessantly.

Seriously, how about you people [sic] win an an election. Republicans own the presidency, both houses of congress, 33 governorships,and both state houses in 32 states. Newsflash: there's been a series of referendums about your politics and the answer is that people hate liberals and liberalism. My theory is that it's because it and they are stupid. As usual, YMMV.

 

[monte]

I get why people dislike Trump, I really do. Although not to the degree that many do. What I don't get is why people so desperately want to see him fail. That is beyond my comprehension. But the older I get, the more stuff I don't get.

I don't want him to fail, my fear is that he will self destruct and cause this country extreme harm. My hope was that after he was elected, he would surround himself with knowledgeable people and make the economic changes that he promised.

His closest advisors are his family. This is not a family business, it is the United States of America. His cabinet choices have been horrendous, DeVos as Secretary of Education. The Charter schools that she advocated for in Michigan are among the worse in the country with absolutely no oversight. Exxon/Mobil has just been fined millions of dollars for breaking sanctions with Russia while Tillerson was CEO.

Why he is afraid to release his taxes is something I can't understand. You are the President, you should have nothing to hide. The abundance of contradictory statements by those close to him are definitely a cause for concern.

Trump is a walking contradiction, the same week that he spoke about having goods made in America, it was revealed that none of his or his daughter's products are made in this country.

He talks about creating jobs but his properties Mar A Lago and his golf courses are applying for visas for foreigners to work there, hypocrisy at its finest.

Just finished reading an article about how money from the Russian Mafia was used to buy an inordinate number of Trump properties in the 90's when he was undergoing numerous bankruptcy procedures.

So Monte, I do not want Trump to fail because of the negative effect it will have on our country. However, I can see him self destructing because he is the perfect example of the "Peter Principle".

You make some valid points. Not saying that I don't have my concerns and doubts as well. But IMO it's way to early to pass judgement. I'll say this for his tax returns: his supporters could care less if he releases them. Which leaves his enemies. Now why in God's name would he release his tax returns and give his enemies anything more to attack him over? Releasing his returns can do absolutely no good, and lots of bad. You telling me that if he releases them and they're totally above board that it's going to change one thing? It won't. So why release them? As for contradictory statements and hypocrisy, you know as well as I do that politicians by nature are full of crap, and hypocrites. The only difference between Trump and career politicians is that career politicians have a lot more practice at it.

Monte, while we all know that politicians are full of crap. Trump is the ultimate hypocrite, he states he is a proponent of Made in America and none of his products are made here. He claims that he is on the side of American Labor but asks for Visas for foreigners to come work at Mar A Largo and his golf courses.He has zero credibility.

Trump apologists need to stop defending the indefensible.

I am not an apologist and I most certainly am not defending him Panther. But lets face facts here, Trump would not be in office if not for Obama, Hillary, the democratic party and the know-it'all liberals, all of whom much of the country got sick and tired of after 8 years. Trump is likely not the answer(does that sound like the words of an apologist?), but we know already that Obama was a failure and Hillary was/is a train wreck. The democratic party was/is in shambles. Sometimes people are willing to roll the dice and hope for the best, as opposed to accepting the status quo.

When the dice come up snake eyes, it is time to make a change. Trump is a total abomination. Y'all crapped out.

You tell me exactly how your life has changed for the worse in the last 7 months, or anyone you know who's life has changed for the worse, and how this country is in worst shape now than it was under Obama and the Dems, and maybe you can persuade me that this experiment has failed. Other than that, I'll ride this thing out for a while longer before declaring it a failure. But I will say this, if the republican party had been up Obama's ass from the moment he was elected, the way the democratic party has been up Trump's ass, it probably wouldn't have taken me 2 years to figure out he was a failure. So I do kind of see your point.

My personal life has not changed for the worse since Bush 1 was President. I am not worried about my life but I am worried about what will happen to the younger generations of my family with this incompetent idiot as President.

I'm not about to give any politician or the government that kind of power over me. I learned long time ago that if I am going to be successful, it's going to be in spite of the government not because of it. I tell my kids the same thing. Diblasio is arguably the biggest idiot who has ever governed any city. My life and that of my children has not gotten any worse during his tenure, except maybe for having to sit in a lot more traffic, but that started with Bloomberg. Frankly I could care less who our elected officials are. I like a few, I dislike a few. Most I couldn't give a crap about.

 

[logen]

And why should the government use OUR money to pay to develop "natural talent" anymore than they should have paid for my daughter to become a teacher or my son an electrician? The government has no business in 90% of the things they "fund". The federal budget is nothing more than a shell game, an opportunity for career politicians to get RICH conning taxpayers when the only people they are really there to please is BIG MONEY. And that is from both sides of the aisle. D.C. needs to be cleaned out and it might be too late to do that. We shall see.

I agree with you about the government being a leviathan with an insatiable appetite for its subjects liberty and property, and that that is an abomination and antithetical to the idea of a free and representative republic. But let's be real: the government does pay for daughters and sons to become teachers and electricians through guaranteed student loans and grants and subsidies and tax breaks for "non profit" colleges and now in New York "free" tuition. The problem with government subsidies for the arts - and I say this as the proud owner of several music degrees and the jagged repulsive teeth of a professional saxophone player - is that when the government picks winners and losers in the arts not only does it picks losers - that is, in the main it subsidizes bad art - but the philistines who do the picking choose art that's offensive to the values that the government should be promulgating. Consider: the federal government sponsored an art exhibit that submerged the baby jesus in a vat of urine; the state government sponsored an art exhibit that portrayed the mother of the baby jesus festooned in dung ("art" which recently sold for 5 million dollars at auction btw). And meanwhile a painting of the baby jesus not in dung and not submerged in any bodily fluids left outside a mosque on Long Island is being investigated as a hate crime. If I painted a picture of the prophet M__h____d using my own feces I'd be prosecuted and then murdered by zealots. Whereas if I painted a similar picture of Pope Leo XII I'd win various awards. That's the problem with funding the arts: no one knows what art is and least of all civil servants.

No, government needs to get out of funding the arts because it is not their business. Personally, I couldn't care less about bad art because I was blessed with the common sense to ignore it. I am a Christian and find the "art" referenced to be abhorrent but couldn't care less about it; now the political climate that allows the hypocrisy you cite is a different story altogether. That is real, downright scary and oversimplifying things a bit, is why Trump is sitting in the White House right now. I said multiple times prior to the election that the most important thing about Trump was that he was probably the only person who could have stopped the Bush/Clinton/Obama/leftist/RINO sellout to the globalist movement. That is the single most reason that D.C., including MANY Republicans, are acting in concert to discredit him, stall his agenda, invented the Russian collusion, etc. It remains astounding to me that in clear sight Clinton/Obama brokered the uranium deal with Russia that made both an absolute boatload of money but seemingly intelligent people are comfortably happy to ignore that. Hillary in full sight and now indisputably documented broke EXTREMELY vital national security laws, laws that have people in prison for serious time for a fraction of what she did; yet those same "intelligent" people seemingly just don't care. Pretty much as undeniable is Obama and his administration abused and turned the intelligence communities to their own use, acting in HIS interest even after he left office, ignoring all rule of law fragrantly and in plain sight and what does the media say about that? NOTHING, but let Trump tweet and watch the hysteria. I could go on and on but the fact is this country is at a very serious crossroads; very serious and it has the same NOTHING to do with Democrat vs. Republican. It is whether we stay a sovereign self determining democratic republic or enough people are conned or brainwashed or imported to turn us into just more fodder for the elite globalists.

 

[JohnnyFan]

And why should the government use OUR money to pay to develop "natural talent" anymore than they should have paid for my daughter to become a teacher or my son an electrician? The government has no business in 90% of the things they "fund". The federal budget is nothing more than a shell game, an opportunity for career politicians to get RICH conning taxpayers when the only people they are really there to please is BIG MONEY. And that is from both sides of the aisle. D.C. needs to be cleaned out and it might be too late to do that. We shall see.

I agree with you about the government being a leviathan with an insatiable appetite for its subjects liberty and property, and that that is an abomination and antithetical to the idea of a free and representative republic. But let's be real: the government does pay for daughters and sons to become teachers and electricians through guaranteed student loans and grants and subsidies and tax breaks for "non profit" colleges and now in New York "free" tuition. The problem with government subsidies for the arts - and I say this as the proud owner of several music degrees and the jagged repulsive teeth of a professional saxophone player - is that when the government picks winners and losers in the arts not only does it picks losers - that is, in the main it subsidizes bad art - but the philistines who do the picking choose art that's offensive to the values that the government should be promulgating. Consider: the federal government sponsored an art exhibit that submerged the baby jesus in a vat of urine; the state government sponsored an art exhibit that portrayed the mother of the baby jesus festooned in dung ("art" which recently sold for 5 million dollars at auction btw). And meanwhile a painting of the baby jesus not in dung and not submerged in any bodily fluids left outside a mosque on Long Island is being investigated as a hate crime. If I painted a picture of the prophet M__h____d using my own feces I'd be prosecuted and then murdered by zealots. Whereas if I painted a similar picture of Pope Leo XII I'd win various awards. That's the problem with funding the arts: no one knows what art is and least of all civil servants.

No, government needs to get out of funding the arts because it is not their business. Personally, I couldn't care less about bad art because I was blessed with the common sense to ignore it. I am a Christian and find the "art" referenced to be abhorrent but couldn't care less about it; now the political climate that allows the hypocrisy you cite is a different story altogether. That is real, downright scary and oversimplifying things a bit, is why Trump is sitting in the White House right now. I said multiple times prior to the election that the most important thing about Trump was that he was probably the only person who could have stopped the Bush/Clinton/Obama/leftist/RINO sellout to the globalist movement. That is the single most reason that D.C., including MANY Republicans, are acting in concert to discredit him, stall his agenda, invented the Russian collusion, etc. It remains astounding to me that in clear sight Clinton/Obama brokered the uranium deal with Russia that made both an absolute boatload of money but seemingly intelligent people are comfortably happy to ignore that. Hillary in full sight and now indisputably documented broke EXTREMELY vital national security laws, laws that have people in prison for serious time for a fraction of what she did; yet those same "intelligent" people seemingly just don't care. Pretty much as undeniable is Obama and his administration abused and turned the intelligence communities to their own use, acting in HIS interest even after he left office, ignoring all rule of law fragrantly and in plain sight and what does the media say about that? NOTHING, but let Trump tweet and watch the hysteria. I could go on and on but the fact is this country is at a very serious crossroads; very serious and it has the same NOTHING to do with Democrat vs. Republican. It is whether we stay a sovereign self determining democratic republic or enough people are conned or brainwashed or imported to turn us into just more fodder for the elite globalists.

You are taking great liberties as you tell the Russian uranium deal story.

I am posting a link to a piece published by Politifact. Although it is not the end-all-be-all source, it does describe the issue with some indisputable facts, and also describes why many think it was (and may have been) corrupt.

Link: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...hecking-donald-trumps-tweets-about-hillary-c/

 

[logen]

And why should the government use OUR money to pay to develop "natural talent" anymore than they should have paid for my daughter to become a teacher or my son an electrician? The government has no business in 90% of the things they "fund". The federal budget is nothing more than a shell game, an opportunity for career politicians to get RICH conning taxpayers when the only people they are really there to please is BIG MONEY. And that is from both sides of the aisle. D.C. needs to be cleaned out and it might be too late to do that. We shall see.

I agree with you about the government being a leviathan with an insatiable appetite for its subjects liberty and property, and that that is an abomination and antithetical to the idea of a free and representative republic. But let's be real: the government does pay for daughters and sons to become teachers and electricians through guaranteed student loans and grants and subsidies and tax breaks for "non profit" colleges and now in New York "free" tuition. The problem with government subsidies for the arts - and I say this as the proud owner of several music degrees and the jagged repulsive teeth of a professional saxophone player - is that when the government picks winners and losers in the arts not only does it picks losers - that is, in the main it subsidizes bad art - but the philistines who do the picking choose art that's offensive to the values that the government should be promulgating. Consider: the federal government sponsored an art exhibit that submerged the baby jesus in a vat of urine; the state government sponsored an art exhibit that portrayed the mother of the baby jesus festooned in dung ("art" which recently sold for 5 million dollars at auction btw). And meanwhile a painting of the baby jesus not in dung and not submerged in any bodily fluids left outside a mosque on Long Island is being investigated as a hate crime. If I painted a picture of the prophet M__h____d using my own feces I'd be prosecuted and then murdered by zealots. Whereas if I painted a similar picture of Pope Leo XII I'd win various awards. That's the problem with funding the arts: no one knows what art is and least of all civil servants.

No, government needs to get out of funding the arts because it is not their business. Personally, I couldn't care less about bad art because I was blessed with the common sense to ignore it. I am a Christian and find the "art" referenced to be abhorrent but couldn't care less about it; now the political climate that allows the hypocrisy you cite is a different story altogether. That is real, downright scary and oversimplifying things a bit, is why Trump is sitting in the White House right now. I said multiple times prior to the election that the most important thing about Trump was that he was probably the only person who could have stopped the Bush/Clinton/Obama/leftist/RINO sellout to the globalist movement. That is the single most reason that D.C., including MANY Republicans, are acting in concert to discredit him, stall his agenda, invented the Russian collusion, etc. It remains astounding to me that in clear sight Clinton/Obama brokered the uranium deal with Russia that made both an absolute boatload of money but seemingly intelligent people are comfortably happy to ignore that. Hillary in full sight and now indisputably documented broke EXTREMELY vital national security laws, laws that have people in prison for serious time for a fraction of what she did; yet those same "intelligent" people seemingly just don't care. Pretty much as undeniable is Obama and his administration abused and turned the intelligence communities to their own use, acting in HIS interest even after he left office, ignoring all rule of law fragrantly and in plain sight and what does the media say about that? NOTHING, but let Trump tweet and watch the hysteria. I could go on and on but the fact is this country is at a very serious crossroads; very serious and it has the same NOTHING to do with Democrat vs. Republican. It is whether we stay a sovereign self determining democratic republic or enough people are conned or brainwashed or imported to turn us into just more fodder for the elite globalists.

You are taking great liberties as you tell the Russian uranium deal story.

I am posting a link to a piece published by Politifact. Although it is not the end-all-be-all source, it does describe the issue with some indisputable facts, and also describes why many think it was (and may have been) corrupt.

Link: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...hecking-donald-trumps-tweets-about-hillary-c/

I am taking no liberties, if you are getting your info from Politifact or CNN, or NBC, etc. you are brainwashed. They are not objective reporters of fact they are propagandists. Propagandists who promote a movement, not the truth, in fact they have no truth, that have marching orders: as dirty as any "media" anywhere.